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Coffee will be served for all the early morning risers! :)

3 Day Mini-Con on May 26 - May 28 for Pathfinder Society!

Location: 280B Spring St.
Newton, NJ 07860

Come play Pathfinder Society scenarios. Slots are available Friday night, all day Saturday and on Sunday.

Pathfinder Scenarios are short 4-hour adventures set in a variety of exotic locations around Golarion. Each session is part of a constantly evolving mega-campaign, your actions and achievements creating an ongoing storyline.

The Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild is a worldwide fantasy roleplaying campaign that puts YOU in the role of an agent of the Pathfinder Society—a legendary league of explorers, archaeologists, and adventurers dedicated to discovering and chronicling the greatest mysteries and wonders of an ancient world beset by magic and evil.
The Dragon Lair, a gaming shop in Newton, NJ will also be running Magic the Gathering as well as offering Magic and Pathfinder products for sale.

We plan on holding monthly events. (check for calendar dates on Warhorn)
Pizza, salad bar and unlimited drinks for two meal sessions on Saturday are included with a 3 day entry pass.

Event registration has started. As GM events are approved, new events will be added. If interested in GMing a game, please contact Andy at ailiff01@yahoo.com

3 day pass holders will have priority for each session.

Nearby Hotels:
Holiday Inn Express 973-940-8888
Econo Lodge 973-383-3922

Event Registration: https://warhorn.net/events/armistal-hall-pfs

Hello, we just finished Rise of The Runelords and this is the dialog between an NPC Cleric of Erastil and PC Swashbuckler.

Cleric: "You are going to do everything to protect your people, that's not a suggestion. That's a fact, I just want to say that you should never ever forget that your final goal, is to protect people. It's easy for one to loose himself"
Swashbuckler: "What exactly defines everything? What is the limit in what we do?"
Cleric: "I... I really do not think there is one. As long as it is to keep your people safe I think you will do everything. Would you kill a whole family to save many many more? Yes you would. Now would you sleep at night? That's a very different question"
Swashbuckler: "Yes, I would. You are right. It's all about the people. We don't matter if we cant protect them. And yes... I could sleep at night."

After reading this I asked the DM if he's switching both of them to neutral. DM believes they are doing the right thing. You should kill an innocent family, to save a many more innocent families.

I as a player and my LG Cleric of Erastil disagree. My cleric is keeping his family away from both of them just in case they get ideas :P

So what alignment(s) would that thinking falls in, in your opinion?

Edit: To avoid any misunderstanding. Campaign is over. We were having philosophical discussion with DM and other players on the matter. I suggested I'd post on the message boards so we see what others think. They liked the idea.

In my opinion, the Good/Neutral/Evil axis is defined by WHY you make decisions and the Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic axis is defined by HOW you make decisions.

A good character has a tendency to think of others before themselves. An evil character is selfish in nature and/or looks to create general destruction. A neutral character has no tendency either way.

A lawful character follows some sort of code and/or is bound by order. A chaotic character values the freedom to make their own decisions and/or detests being told what to do. A neutral character has no tendency either way.

Analyzing the OP's question:

I believe that any Good fits the characters due to the fact that their reasoning behind what they do is to protect other people. It seems to me that the "need to protect the people" is not a one time instance in this case, but an innate drive or need for these characters. Evidence of this is supported by the phrases "It's all about the people. We don't matter if we can protect them" and "you should never forget that your final goal is to protect the people". They are putting others before themselves. If this was a one time thing and/or the characters did not always exhibit this need, I would argue maybe a more neutral alignment.

On the other axis, it is a bit trickier because you have to analyze HOW the characters go about their decision-making. I would argue that either Neutral or Chaotic would work. A lawful character has some sort of code and is bound by order. To a lawful character "the means matter", or in other words, "the way in which you do things matter". The action they are proposing does not take in to account what society thinks is right or what some universal law thinks is right, but what they themselves define as right in this particular circumstance. This is a Chaotic action. This is evidenced by the lines "I don't think there is one. As long as it will keep your people safe you will do everything" in response to the question "what is the limit in what we do". Now, if the character is striving to make their own decisions based on their own moral judgement in everything they do, then I would argue Chaotic. If this seems to be a special instance where that is the logic, I would argue Neutral. I don't think there is enough evidence to say either way how the characters go about making their decisions in everyday life, but I can take a stab at it. It seems to me that the character's are kind of questioning whether there might be some sort of order or not to what they do, as evidenced by the line "what is the limit to what we do". This hints to me that their need to be free of law and order and make their own decisions are not as overwhelming, and that they would be ok with the idea of following law and order in other circumstances. So I would lean toward Neutral.

So to sum it up, I believe the characters to be Neutral Good, although I believe Chaotic Good works as well, depending on how string their urge is to "be free of rules" and "follow their own whims".

I'd believe it'd stack, yes.

What would be the reasoning for that? The hair attack doesn't normally deal plus strength, it just says that it deals plus intelligence. And the agile property lets you apply dex in place of strength. Wouldn't that mean that Agile, although hair qualifies for use with it as a natural attack that works with weapon finesse, wouldn't do anything?

Although the rogue's own debilitating injury doesn't stack with itself, can it stack with other rogues' debilitating injuries? It is important to know how these interact because I have friends that I am going to Gen Con with and we are all rogue (unchained) builds.

Let's look at some scenarios:

Scenario 1: Rogue A and Rogue B are flanking their targets and each get sneak attack on their turn. Rogue A goes first. He takes 2 attacks and applies Debilitating Blow: Bewildered on his first attack, and uses the second sneak attack to extend the duration by one round. Rogue B then goes, and the opponent is currently at -2 AC vs him. Rogue B applies Debilitating Blow: Bewildered as well. Does the opponent now have -6 AC versus each character? If you have 4 rogues in a party, does that mean you can give an opponent -10 AC in total against each of the rogues using this same method?

Scenario 2: Same setup as Scenario 1, except Rogue B decides to apply Debilitating Blow: Disoriented. Does the opponent now have -2 AC + -4 Attack against Rogue B and -4 AC + -2 Attack against Rogue A?

Relevant Text:

At 4th level, whenever a rogue deals sneak attack damage to a foe, she can also debilitate the target of her attack, causing it to take a penalty for 1 round (this is in addition to any penalty caused by a rogue talent or other special ability). The rogue can choose to apply any one of the following penalties when the damage is dealt.

Bewildered: The target becomes bewildered, taking a –2 penalty to AC. The target takes an additional –2 penalty to AC against all attacks made by the rogue. At 10th level and 16th level, the penalty to AC against attacks made by the rogue increases by –2 (to a total maximum of –8).

Disoriented: The target takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls. In addition, the target takes an additional –2 penalty on all attack rolls it makes against the rogue. At 10th level and 16th level, the penalty on attack rolls made against the rogue increases by –2 (to a total maximum of –8).

Hampered: All of the target’s speeds are reduced by half (to a minimum of 5 feet). In addition, the target cannot take a 5-foot step.

These penalties do not stack with themselves, but additional attacks that deal sneak attack damage extend the duration by 1 round. A creature cannot suffer from more than one penalty from this ability at a time. If a new penalty is applied, the old penalty immediately ends. Any form of healing applied to a target suffering from one of these penalties also removes the penalty.

I am mainly worried about the bolded parts.

I think its pretty obvious that you would get 1.5x Dex to damage with a two-handed weapon and finesse training.

In addition, starting at 3rd level, she can select any one type of weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse (such as rapiers or daggers). Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed. Whenever she makes a successful melee attack with the selected weapon, she adds her Dexterity modifier instead of her Strength modifier to the damage roll. If any effect would prevent the rogue from adding her Strength modifier to the damage roll, she does not add her Dexterity modifier.

First of all, it's a replacement effect. It says INSTEAD. For those quoting Agile Weapon Property, you can't compare the two. One is a class ability, the other is a weapon property. They have two different rules texts and neither makes mention of the other. Its Apples and Oranges. No connection. Also, just to appease those comparing the two, Agile says you may choose. Its not a replacement. You can't choose with Finesse Training.

Also, for anyone who still have doubts, how would you explain damage on an off-hand attack when two-weapon fighting with your finesse weapon?

When you deal damage with a weapon in your off hand, you add only 1/2 your Strength bonus.

You don't get full Dex damage on your off-hand weapon, you get 1/2 times. That's because Dex replaces Strength. I think it is clearly written. Unless an FAQ or specific text states otherwise, you apply 1.5x Dex to damage with Finesse Training and 2-handed weapons that apply.

Dude, we have seen your thread. You can stop spamming every monk/rogue/unchained thread on the board with links to it.

The first link was a level 5 build. This last one was a level 11 build after I changed a couple things. Sorry. Not trying to spam just looking for advice For PFS and seeing if anyone knows a better way of doing what I'm trying to do.