sojoocy's page

How's this build holding up as of November 2016? Nerfed to obsoletion?

Shocked no one has mentioned this yet, but you could be a Monk (MoMS?) and take the Earth Child feat line. Dwarf or gnome prerequisite, if you take the entire feat line you can trip any size creature of the giant subtype with significant bonuses, add your wisdom modifier to damage and retroactively make your AoO when they stand up from being tripped a Stunning Fist attempt at a sizeable bonus.

That was a nice six year nap.

I love that you exist <3

Friend is interested in running this character but he's every bit the minmaxer I am (despite being a new player) and while doing some research I came across a few posts that claim it was nerfed from "Strictly better than monk, and probably strictly better than normal Warpriest." to "Eh/10" because they errata'd the pseudo-flurry to not work at full BAB.

Is this true? Pls no. I'm putting together the framework for a build that dips Master of Many Styles Monk for two levels to nab Pummeling Charge at level 3 and maybe invest in the Dragon Style feats but I'm not familiar enough with the class as a whole to know if it's gonna be as effective at face pounding as he and I both want it to be.

No takers?

It's difficult to find advice about the archetype that isn't from 2013 and doesn't start with "Build subject to nerf if (X) is errata'd." so HOPEFULLY the many issues have been errata'd (whether or not brawlers get shield bash for free, whether or not the two weapon fighting they get while flurrying counts as the actual feat for feat chain qualifications, etc)

I don't want to abuse any double-shield gimmicks, but otherwise, I'm open to any and all suggestions. Race is half-orc, 20 pt. buy. If it's a juicy option, I'd really like to stack Shield Champion with Winding Path Renegade.

Title.

There is, disappointingly, very little discussion about this archetype floating around so when our newest player (newer than me, which is saying something) brought it up we all pretty much said idfk. Figured I'd type this up while they finish helping him pick a pregen for tonight.

Everyone has varying opinions. My first thought was to tell him to dump strength and pump dex to 18+ and then pick up Agile Maneuvers as his first level feat but beyond that I'm veeeeeery unfamiliar with builds like this so I didn't know what to suggest as far as further feats/gear/etc.

Vicious Stomp and Greater Trip apparently stack to give you two free AoO's on every successful trip so he could be putting down some serious attack volume...but with him dumping strength, they'd be doing pitiful damage. Obviously damage won't be the main focus of the build, but when you're a martial class hitting for 1d4-2 damage at level 1 (more like a flat 1d6 by the time he has both those feats, but still)

So, to nail it all down in cliffnotes form, I'm looking for;

- Feat progression beyond Agile Maneuevers (assuming I'm correct in advising he dump str/pump dex) and Combat Reflexes
- Stats.
- Gear
- General build advice. I don't even know how one would play a build almost exclusively focused on tripping people. Apparently Maneuver Master gets to make more than one combat maneuver in a turn, so how would this work? You trip more than one person, or trip & then ____? the same person?

Yus, it's me again. This build is actually going to be for a good friend of mine though. Don't worry, you guys sold me on the Dawnflower Dervish :3

/quote:

"You've already got an account, just post it on yours. Yeah. Don't really care what class, I just want to complete critbliterate (TM) things. No. Fine."

/end quote.

So here's what he wants;

- To be mounted, for mobility and incredible charge damage w/lance.
- To be halfling, because a) our characters are gonna be related and b) aren't small sized mounted characters the bees' knees anyway, especially with all the dungeons we're forced into?
- To be as minmaxed as possible. I refuse to dump int and cha, and especially not both at once. He says he doesn't mind being stupid and mean if it benefits his ability to oneshot big ugly things.

I really wish I could sell him on a non-martial class, but he's married to the idea, so that leaves our party composition at...

- Greatsword-using warpriest. The player decided to be a bumnugget and watch us from the back the entire last module so I'm not sure what the build is focused on.
- Extra tanky paladin
- Oracle (No idea what mystery she chose, but she functioned as support/face in our first module)
- Monk grappler/debuffer (lots of dirty trick usage, he generally just softens them up for the big hitters)
- Dawnflower dervish bard (yours truly)

Feats are pretty self explanatory, but I don't know what to tell him as far as class, stats, etc.

Cliffs;
- Bringing a friend into our game.
- He wants to play a mounted halfling (kin to the Dawnflower Dervish you all helped me build, for flavor purposes) who specializes in absolutely murdering one thing per turn. So...a pretty stock lance charger.
- Feats are very self explanatory but I don't know where to point him as far as classes and stats.

Shameless bump. I think I'm set on everything but feats. Arcane Strike and Risky Striker seem good, but after that idk. Would normally go up the cleave or critical trees, but those are out since I won't be getting PA. Crane style wouldn't come online until approximately "Oh, level 12? Time to roll new characters." Combat reflexes maybe?

So right now, Jasevaati Hskori the halfling Dawnflower Dervish looks like this...

Str: 8
Dex: 19
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

Level 0 spells: Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Read Magic
Level 1: Expeditious Retreat, Moment of Greatness, Feather Fall

Feat: Arcane Strike. Probably going to take Risky Striker at 3rd. After that, I dunno. Someone in another thread suggested taking the Crane Style tree of feats, but that looks ehhhh. Wouldn't take off til high levels.

^ Funny enough, I was able to (barely) afford it right now. We just finished our first module, I had about 1.5k to spend.

So how about....

Str: 10 (or 8)
Dex: 19 (20 at 4)
Con: 14
Int: 8 (or 10)
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

Edit: I'm reaaaally kind of liking Str 8/Int 10 better than the other way around, although, as predicted, I'm already having troubles keeping a light load. With the absolute bare necessities (scimitar, backup dagger, chain shirt, bedroll/rations/canteen and some weightless items) I've only got a pound and a half to spare.

Of course, bumping Str to 10 only gives me six pounds to spare, and it loses me two skills and knocks a point off all my knowledge skills.

Probably just gonna ask the group paladin to tote any extra stuff I pick up for me.

@ lemeres, as much sense as that makes (and appeals), going human is a dealbreaker for me. My heart's set on playing a halfling. That alone pushes the feat progression back two levels, and the Str penalty...ouch. I could get it to 10 and remove the negatives, but going any higher would mean dumping int (don't want to, skills + the roleplay angle) and wis even further.

@ Kalindlara, good :3 I'm not a big fan of dipping, didn't want to take it if it didn't look like a really good option.

If I drop Cha to 14, I can maintain that 19 Dex and raise either Str or Wis back to 10. Str to 10 would get me a few more pounds while still maintaining a light load, Wis to 10 would stop it from cutting into my worst save and knock off that -1 to perception.

I'm honestly not sure which one would bother me less :L

Also, how does a 1 level dip into Urban Barbarian (first level actually) sound? Worth it?

Risky Striker DOES look good. I was wincing a little at the loss of power attack/piranha strike (can't fit 13str into the build, and PS doesn't work with scimitar :L) but that definitely helps some. Also going to do some casual browsing on Arcane Duelist. Shame I can't stack those, but it was more of a "Oh, maybe I can do that? Cool." than a "YESSS!" anyway.

@ Faelyn, should Arcane Strike be my first level feat then? I don't see anything else jumping out at me. Just looked up Bladed Dash and that is absolutely fantastic...battlefield mobility ftw.

How're my stats looking?

Str: 8
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 17 (bumped to 18 at 4)

Or...I could dump some more stats and wind up with:

Str: 7
Dex: 19 (bump to 20 at 4)
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 16

A little hesitant to dump wisdom from a roleplaying standpoint but it's not a 4 so I'll just be the happy-go-lucky murderbot who needs a little more common sense. As far as strength...erck...my equip burden is silly low, but I'll find a way to make it work.

Yussssss. I was looking at the Dawnflower Dervish more strongly anyway, simply because of the name...and the flavor that goes with it. I plan on rolling a halfling, and while I've freaked out at a lot of halfling build ideas that didn't pan out, this one...three feet of spinning, flipping, singing, casting death? And it's VIABLE? AND it's PFS legal? Might need to pick me up off the floor.

@ Kalindlara, I'm set on halfling. Honestly, the race led me to the class, and not vice versa. As far as what I've got in mind...pretty much what Iemeres guessed, a melee fighter with skills, saves and spells.

@ PCSipio, double confirmation of early level viability makes me happy. Very pleased with the idea of high AC too, the GM seems to roll stupidly well when he's trying to kill me.

@ lemeres, perfect, because that's pretty much what I was going for...melee with versatility and some out of combat use.

There isn't a single full caster in our five man group, somehow. What would a feat tree look like if I was to go with TWF? I'm pretty pleased with this news, somehow TWF just seems to fit better flavorwise anyway.

@ Dave, forgive my ignorance, I've never actually seen a bard being played. Our group seems to have a martial class fetish. I've heard they can make very decent archers, but this character is actually a rebuild because I discovered after one session with my ZA that I absolutely despise being an archer. Your tips have me extra, extra sold on picking Dawnflower out of those two...although I'll do some further digging into a melee-viable vanilla bard too and see how they stack up. Should be a lot more info on those out there than I could find on either of these archetypes.

EDIT: Just found this while browsing. I can't see any reason not to take Sound Striker on top of Dawnflower, even if I ditch the rest of the ideas. Urban barbarian dip sounds like a good idea too.

http://www.optibuilds.com/bard-dawnflower-dervish-sound-striker-build/

Was starting to resign myself to the idea of being a vanilla bard and letting everyone else get all the glory before I stumbled upon these archetypes.

I have absolutely zero experience with bards, let alone these archetypes, and, as usual, hours of digging up ancient threads later there isn't a cohesive opinion on them at all. Everyone says something different about which one is better, no one can agree whether they're both terrible and it's a moot point, and no one can agree on builds.

So, really, questions are...

- Most important question: Which one will take off sooner? PFS so we won't be going past level 12 and I loathe the idea of playing a character who won't feel relevant til level 6+
- Which one is "better" for a chiefly melee role (with, of course, party buffing as a secondary concern)
- What should feat progression look like?
- Do they just flat-out suck and I should look elsewhere?

@ TSR, still a good read in case I run into a similar problem in the future, thanks man!

@ nennafir, double confirmation yussss. Definitely looking into a more diverse class now.

@ Lemmy I'm glad I discovered that as soon as I did...being a newbie, my first focus was to be a DPR machine getting high-fives from around the table for smacking the tar out of the BBEG. That is no longer a focus.

Looking VERY strongly at inquisitor now, as I understand it they're a very well built class and kind of a jack-of-all-trades. Plus the dwarf cleric pawn would make a smashing dwarf inquisitor.

Oh sweet jesus. Thank goodness for people with experience <3

I have not played the character at second level, I just completed the module and got my sheet. You two are saints <3

^ We're already all second level :L

- New player.
- After tons of deliberation, ended up rolling a pistolero because it looked cool and proceeded to rebuild to a Zen Archer (with GM approval) because I didn't want to play a build that wouldn't take off until months of playing down the road.
- Just finished my first module with the ZA and had a blast...because I'm new and the GM is excellent. I found my character to be dreadfully boring. Basically every combat goes like this:

GM: Your turn.
Me: Okies. Flurry of arrows, I'm gonna try to pop off that ghoul.
*roll, roll* X DAMAGE!
~~
GM: Your turn again.
Me: Okies. Flurry of arrows!
*roll, roll* X DAMAGE!

Rinse, repeat. I have exactly nothing to contribute outside of combat, and while I'm moderately effective IN combat my options are incredibly limited. My options won't open very much at mid-late levels either; I get some bonuses to damage and such, and that's basically it.

I'm eyeing a dwarf inquisitor now but I'm not sure how to approach the GM and convince him to let me switch to a new character....again...especially now that the rest of the party just bumped up to level 2 and we're playing PFS so he can't just houserule out his ass.

Right now I'm thinking I'll just ask him to let me kill off my ZA at the very start of the next module and roll my inquisitor at level one...leaving me permanently a level behind the party and using underpowered gear (initially) compared to whatever the rest of the party managed to buy with the 1400 GP they each earned in the last module.

Hoping one of you has a better suggestion though.

CLIFFS:

- New player with basically no previous experience.
- Already rebuilt character from pistolero to ZA.
- Just finished first module, had a great time but don't particularly like the one-track nature of either class I played.
- Need suggestions on how I can convince the GM to let me make yet another character (and preferably kill off my current one.)
- Got a couple of sticky issues in that the entire party just leveled up and we're playing PFS (not sure what all restrictions that throws in)

Laaaawdy. Loads to think about here...you guys are pretty fabulous, just an FYI.

I'm still *really* reluctant to play any kind of a support/"situationally helpful" role, but I'll keep the idea going. Particularly if, as someone noted might happen, the entire party gets wiped out because we didn't have someone who could do X (although if that happens, you betcha ass I'm going to try to shove that role off on someone else.)

Looking strongly at a ranged paladin at the moment (started another thread) but there's also several other ideas you've all suggested here that look interesting if that doesn't work out. Thanks everyone!

I'm brand-spankin-new at this, but here's what I put together in HeroLab.

-- Mysterious Stranger (Rapid Reload)
-- Paladin w/ Oath of Vengeance archetype
-- Paladin (Point-Blank Shot)
-- Mysterious Stranger
-- Mysterious Stranger (Rapid Shot)
-- Mysterious Stranger (Precise Shot BF)
-- Mysterious Stranger (Two-Weapon Fighting)
-- Juggler Bard
-- Juggler Bard (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting)
-- Paladin
-- Paladin (Clustered shots?)
-- No ruddy idea.

Mysterious Stranger to 5 for Stranger's Luck. Should be a massive help with the potential misfires I'm going to run across cranking out so many shots. Oath of Vengeance Paladin is going to 4 so I can get all that juicy smiting. Juggler bard dip is to fix the reloading issues with dual pistols (I could also go alchemist/vestigial arm if there's a good argument for that being better. Gun twirling is out of the question, too many useless feats and the build wouldn't take off til later.)

From there on out, I dunno. Game likely won't go past level 12-15 and this already takes me to 11.

I can't *see* any obvious problems but, as previously stated, I'm rather new at this.

All looks fantastic mate :3

New problem popped up, though. Upon further research, the musketeer archetype isn't PFS legal either. Which irritates me to an unreasonable degree...this is the third *perfect* build I've had my eye on that might get scrapped because of the damn PFS restrictions.

Only way around it that I can see is to take five levels in Mysterious Stranger to get Stranger's Fortune and pick up pretty much nothing else of worth in the four levels needed to get to that.

That's crazy xD I got the idea for the musketeer dip from another thread I read recently, any chance that was you?

Trench fighter is out since I'm playing PFS but otherwise...that looks really good. I'm a bit confused on why the musket sucks though...what's the context for iteratives there? Pls forgive, am noob. I was initially looking at pistolero but the fact that the build wouldn't really take off for quite some time and this campaign likely won't go past level 10-12, coupled with the fact that other GMs may not be as lenient as mine is with all those free actions...I dunno.

I tend to ramble, so I'll keep this short-ish:

- Want to be three feet of BBEG wrecking thunder.
- Mysterious stranger archetype has great synergy, so I'm taking it.
- Currently looking at mysterious stranger 1/swashbuckler (musketeer) 1 (for quick clear, overcoming the mysterious stranger's single biggest issue) and then take the rest of the levels as paladin. Are there any issues with this I'm overlooking?
- Clueless as far as feat choice and progression.

Also, how am I meant to get reloading my musket to less than a move action? Rapid reload takes it to standard, alchemical cartridges would take it to move...and from there?

Aaaand final edit, how should my stats look (assuming I'm unwilling to drop anything besides strength below 10) Twenty point buy, currently I'm looking at either...

- Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18

Or...

- Str 8, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18

While I'm still looking at bloodrager, every thread I've dug up claims that I am GOING to lag, end of story.

Someone casually mentioned a gunslinging paladin though, and now I like the idea as much or more as a bloodrager. Three feet of sparkling full plate, cape billowing in the wind while he punches holes in whatever is biggest and meanest with his adorable little musket...plus it'd fill that ranged support hole our party currently has, AND my stat bonuses work.

Thoughts? May start a new thread just for this.

@ DJ, now I kind of want a halfling paladin with a musket flying around on one of those. Bard would no doubt be an excellent choice, but I'm still kind of ehhh on the idea of playing a chiefly support role.

@ Nargemn -- Alchemist looks fairly interesting, I've got a couple of tabs open researching it atm. Thanks for the pointer.

@ MS -- Thanks man. Flavoriwise it doesn't really jump out at me but it might surprise me, I'll check it out.

@ Qaianna, I'm not sure what they're building towards but currently everyone is smashy except for the magic user, who did nothing but pop off shots from his crossbow during our first session. I think the player said he was going to be illusion/? focused. Monk was a grappler; guy pinned & blinded the only two serious challengers we had. Shooty sounds good. Paladin in particular sounds REALLY good, but I get the feeling lawful good would get terribly boring from a roleplay aspect since I genuinely don't want to be a hero.

@ Haruhik -- Not really looking at magic right now, but being a witch DOES sound infinitely better than being a wizard/sorcerer. Will give it a look.

@TLK -- Will check those archetypes out. Barbarian also sounds REALLY good but everything I've researched says I'm going to lag due to being a halfling...which at this point I'm almost ready to just deal with.

@ SmiloDan -- Ninja looks interesting. I get the feeling I'd only be situationally useful, but in a "Oh thank god, I forgot he could do that." kind of way. Bloodrager sounds good too, possibly even more than barbarian.

@HM -- That's two for bloodrager. Looking at it seriously.

@ Cleaver, I forget sometimes that I'm part of the generation that gets offended by everything. Not your fault obviously, and I appreciate your courtesy in pointing it out. I don't think I can edit but I'll keep it in mind for the future.

@ Blave -- I'll toss the idea around. Playing a support character sounds like it'd get me a lot of high-fives, but...I wanna be ferocious ;-;

@ Shaman -- Hmm. Several options to look at. Barbarian and bloodrager are still jumping out.

@ Bear -- If I don't get punted by the end of the first module, I'll probably never speak to this group again.

@ Jeff -- Ooh. RS looks... :3 .... I want to do this so bad now.

@ Rory -- Huh. Intriguing setup. How would it fare at higher levels?

Bloodrager is looking SUPER swell now. Shame the best archetype is banned by PFS but I'm gonna look into it. I actually really like the idea of being a grappler, but that role is already filled by a character that's always going to be better at it :L

So far, we've got an oracle, a wizard, a warpriest, a paladin and a monk (who has, thusfar, kicked absurd amounts of ass for a class that gets justifiably s*!+ on 24/7.)

I ran a human pistolero for the first encounter (had plans to multiclass into inquisitor) but further research led me to decide to drop it, so I'm fixing to hit our DM up so we can make plans to kill off Jouhas and bring in his (adopted) brother, Jasper O'Dinn, who is going to be my halfling ____?

I've run into a bit of an issue because I refuse to play a class that's not going to kick ass (new player, but I seriously like the combat) but I'm attached to the idea of playing a midget (being 6'3" in real life, I feel like it's going to lead to some funny s$%~) and every thread I've read so far has been shoving cavaliers down my throat.

Mounted classes of any sort aren't really sparking any good feelings from me flavorwise, but if they're REALLY that good, I could be persuaded. Unchained summoner (PFS) looks moderately appealing, although I really want to play a more martial class. Oracle could be fun but we've already got one. Ideally, I'd prefer to play some kind of martial class that could keep up with our pally/warpriest in the thick of things, but that feels like a stretch. I'd also be open to a ranged build.

I'm a new player so whatever class you suggest, as much detail as possible would be loved and appreciated. Thanks in advance sunshine biscuits <3

Cliffs;
- Current party comp is oracle/wizard/warpriest/paladin/monk.
- Want to play a halfling because reasons, but I'm an obsessive minmaxer and don't want the rest of the party walking all over me so I'm not interested in playing any "fun" classes that won't be able to keep up.
- Not overtly interested in playing a magic user of any kind, although I could be persuaded. Ideally I want to play more of a sticks & stones sort.

Shamelesss bump. Upon further research prehensile hair is out, it only lasts for one minute/day.

Hoping I've missed something obvious.

Since weapon cords got errata-d out, there don't appear to be any easy workarounds now. So, as far as options, there's...

- Alchemist dip, grow third arm (Already multiclassing into inquisitor and I don't want to delay Bane more, plus...I just don't like the mental picture)
- Witch dip for prehensile hair (looking at this strongly since it's just one level, but the mental image of a ten foot beard hair reloading my guns is only slightly better than the third limb)
- Two level dip into bard (juggler) which is more appealing from a flavor standpoint.
- Gloves of storing. Problem is this isn't a low level fix.
- Dropping a long list of useless feats into gun twirling. Pretty much ruled this out.

Any other options I'm overlooking? None of these look GOOD, I'm just trying to figure out the lesser of several evils while hoping I've missed some new fix.

Gahd daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaangit.

Pls forgive, am noob. Two extra levels for dex to damage looks far more reasonable than four. So, revised question...how would musket master 5/inquisitor x vs. full inquisitor w/composite longbow stack up.

PFS rules. Likely won't go past level 10-12, and I've heard archers don't really take off until mid-high levels.

How would these two stack up against each other? Currently looking at musket master 1/inquisitor x but if dex to damage is worth the extra four levels I'm open to arguments for it.