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So, as might be expected, Blue_frog's What classes got the biggest buffs in remaster ? thread got a fair amount of Alchemist discussion.

I had meant to chime in with my experiences, but I didn't get to it, and the Alchemist discussion wasn't really fitting with the original topic. So I thought I'd create my own thread.

I play two Alchemists in PFS, a L12 Bomber and a L11 Mutagenist. I've converted both of them to PC2 rules.

Generally speaking, the Class is still fun for me. I do miss being able to make a lot of stuff every daily prep, but with some adjustment the fun is still there.

The Bomber: I make four Quicksilvers, a Darkvision Elixir, an Antiplague, and a couple of Antidotes every day. As I didn't need Calculated Splash anymore, took Efficient Alchemy as the L4 Feat, so 11 AA items each day. The three left over? Those I'm open to what the party needs, but I've tended towards Bravo's Brews.

Versatile Vials? Out of Combat, Versatile Vials are amazing. However, if an Encounter seems likely, I hoard them. Can't use Additives without VVs, and the Boss fights at these levels tend to go pretty long. Almost ran out a couple of times.

While I'm not terribly thrilled with Quick Vials, I gotta admit that the addition of Special Materials has helped.

As for the Mutagenist: I have a rather different approach with him. Namely, making him really, really hard to kill. I'm regularly burning three Versatile Vials every ten minutes (thank you, Powerful Alchemy) to keep up Bravo's Brew, Eagle-Eye Elixir and Cheetah's Elixir all the time. Start of combat, hit the Collar for a thirty minute Bestial Mutagen and ten temp HP. I do like the Mutagenist Field Benefit.

Start of Combat is usually a Combine Elixirs Numbing & Soothing super Tonic. Then it's into the fight.

I haven't used the Field Discovery yet, but I'm glad it's there. Failing a Fort Save can often ruin the encounter. As for the Field Vials ability (and the advanced effect: I haven't really used it yet.

I usually have two Versatile Vials left over once Encounter Mode hits, and I am a firm subscriber to the belief that Versatile Vials are Tools... so I could use one or both for the Field Vials abilities at an Action a pop. Thing is, I'm used to just accepting the Drawback of Bestial... and the Drawback of PC2 Bestial isn't as bothersome as the Core Rulebook variety was. I might run into a situation where the Physical Damage Resistence might be useful though. I dunno... we shall see, I guess. Wish I got to play these characters more often, but high level PFS Scenarios don't grow on trees.

Going forward, it's going to be trickier with the Mutagenist. See, I spent two Class Feats to get Martial Artist Dedication and Follow-Up Strike. Which has been great, don't get me wrong... Follow-Up Strike when you have a 3d12 Astral Shock Deadly d10 Bite attack is absolutely fantastic. Thing is, it leaves him a bit short on Advanced Alchemy items. He has a Familiar, and I do take Extra Alchemy daily, but that's only ten items total. Come L13 I'm going to have to make some adjustments to add a second Mutagen into the routine. Might try to take Efficient Alchemy at L14 to get a couple of more a day.

So yeah, I consider both of those Research Fields to be in a pretty good place. I have some thoughts on Chirurgeon and Toxicologist as well, but I don't actually play them, so I think I'll just leave it at this for now.

Thoughts?

Hi all,

I thought about necro'ing the previous thread I made on this, but I figured it's been a while, and this is a BIG update, so why not go with a new thread.

Basically, I think I've finished... at least until Player Core 2 comes out.

So please, if you're so inclined, take a look and let me know what you think.

An Alchemist's Guide to Alchemical Items (Google Drive link)

Got to thinking about this due to a discussion Sanityfaerie and SuperBidi got into over in the Thrower's Bandolier thread.

Now, my 10th level (almost 11th) Bomber is one of my favourite characters of all time. I find he's been great to play and has been quite effective in my experience.

Now, I don't care much for Citricking's tool. It doesn't suit my view of the game. I'm not about to keep track of every hit, miss, and crit.

I don't mind missing. Everybody misses, even Fighters. I do my best to get the best odds I can and then I roll the dice. If they don't go my way, there's always next time.

Similarly, I don't put a lot of emphasis on Critical Hits. They're a lot of fun when they happen, but they don't happen enough to count on (unless you're a Fighter or Gunslinger.)

What I care about are the results of hitting something, which I do with a fair bit of regularity despite being on my fourth "-1" level (of eight.)

And the thing is... Every other Ranged Striker is starting to throw a lot more dice than I do when they hit.

So I started looking at some numbers. I considered looking at everyone at 11th level, but I figured 12th would be better as Greater Striking runes would be available.

I picked a few Classes and routines. And I looked at what they could do on a minor lucky streak. Three rounds, three successful Strikes.

So, Inventor using a shortbow Weapon Innovation, Overdrive and Megaton Strike: 8d6+6 per Strike; average damage 34, total 102. Same Inventor in Critical Overdrive: 111 damage on average.

Alchemical Sciences Investigator using a Shortbow and Insight Coffee: 5d6+3d8+2 per Strike, average damage 33 pts, total 99.

Precision Edge Crossbow Ace Ranger: 3d10+2d6+2d8+2. 34 average, 102 total.

Thief Rogue with a Shortbow: Sneak Attack on every round, Precise Debilitations on Rounds 2&3 for extra damage: 8d6+2 + 2*(10d6+2) : 104 total.

And then there's my Bomber. Rolling at most 3 dice when I use a Greater Bomb. 2 dice when using a Perpetual Moderate. Sheesh.

Thing is... Persistent damage is a funny beast. Now, I'd normally start off with a Sticky Moderate Acid Flask. If the GM were really lucky with the flat checks I would probably go with two Sticky Moderate Acid Flasks and then go with a Greater Alchemist's Fire because we're getting late into the fight. Moderate Sticky Acid Flask: 1 Acid + 7 Acid Splash + (2d6 + 7) Persistent Acid = 22 pts average. Greater Alchemist's Fire 3d8 Fire + 8 Fire Splash + 3 Persistent Fire = 24 pts. Grand total: 68 pts.

But then we start getting into what-if territory. Suppose the GM failed the flat check on the 2nd Acid Flask. That's another 14 pts on average. 82 now.

How about failing the first check? Well, I'd swap to a Sticky Moderate Alchemist's Fire for Round Two. 2d8 Fire + 7 Fire Splash + 9 Persistent Fire. Average 25 pts. So now our total is 22 Round One + (25+14) Round Two + 24 Round Three = 85 pts.

Moving on... What if GM failed a second check, for the Sticky Alchemist's Fire? The Sticky Moderate does 6 more Persistent then the Greater, so we're up to 91 pts. If the second failed check was Acid, 99 instead.

Fail all three checks and the average damage from the three Bombs would be 105 pts. Which is pretty much in the same ballpark as the others.

That surprised me a bit. And believe me, I know it's unreliable. Still, I've seen GMs fail flat checks a lot... My record is 7 times in a row on a Lesser Acid Flask when my guy was Level 2. (8d6+2 Acid from one Bomb at L2. Loved it.) I just didn't think that a Bomber could get close like that. No Splash on extra targets, no Weakness... Just Persistent Damage, which has its own issues but at least it works on most things.

Hi folks,

I've been working on a Guide to the different Alchemical Items out there. I've finished Bombs & Elixers, and I thought I'd solicit some feedback on how things are going so far.

I reserve the right to give up in despair when Treasure Vault hits. :-P

Alchemist's Guide to Alchemical Items.

I've been thinking a lot about game balance and average damage and "to hit" percentages and all that stuff lately. I play two classes that have "accuracy problems": Alchemist and Warpriest. In both cases, I don't really see what the problem is. Let me explain.

I've played an Alchemist Bomber to 9th Level, an Alchemist Mutagenist to 6th, and a Warpriest to 10th. So, in all three cases, I've been in levels where I'm -1 to hit compared to a non-Fighter/non-Gunslinger Martial.

(My Alchemists use Quicksilver & Bestial. My Warpriest will usually have Bless or Heroism up.)

I've never noticed my guys hitting less than the other players. I think it's because when I miss... the odds are, they would've missed as well.

A -1 means that, on a d20, there are 18 numbers where the result would be the same for the other guy. And against an on-level foe, the only one I care about is the one where I miss.

(Don't get me wrong: I love getting a critical hit on something, particularly with a sticky Bomb. But I've never been quite able to get over my D&D background. I keep expecting Criticals to only happen on a natural 20. When I get one on a 19 or 18, it's awesome, but it's still not something that I find myself expecting.)

So, out of 20 numbers, there's 1 where I miss and the other guys wouldn't have. I find I can't get myself too worked up about it. I might hit the "magic" number five times in a fight. I might hit it zero. It's impossible to predict, so I just tend to ignore it. I hit, or I don't hit.

I imagine it might contribute to why folks still have fun with Barbarians despite the fact that Fighters are undeniably better at hitting things. Even with their advantage, in any given fight the Barbarian might hit just as often. Maybe even more often if the Fighter is having a bad night, dice wise. And when they do hit, they hit a ton, to use the baseball parlance.

Over time the Fighter will likely output more damage... but that can be a hard thing to "see". I imagine you'd have to actually track your output over multiple fights and maybe even multiple sessions. I wonder if anyone does that? It really doesn't appeal to me, but there's definitely multiple ways to have fun in these games.

Anyways, that's enough rambling for now.

Hey all,

We recently decided to move our D&D 3.5 campaign to Pathfinder 2e. As a result, we ended up working with the "Treasure for New Characters" rules on pgs 510-511. We were all 12th level, so basically started with 4,500 sp.

I wanted to duplicate my old Wizard as much as possible, so I bought a lot of spells out of that money (basically scrolls & learning costs). I did give a discount to the learning costs from Magical Shorthand to most.

Thing is, I've been learning as we go on, and I did the math the other day. A character who reaches 12th level is expected to have earned around 9,300 sp along the way. The difference is due to expected spending on consumables, expenses and the like.

So, how would you classify learning spells? Should it be taken out of the "permanent" 4,500 fund (where I also bought my +2 Resilient Explorer's Clothing, etc) or should I work out something else with my GM, as used scrolls are definitely used consumables that might be factored into the larger pool?

Just wanting to get some points of view.