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Level 14 is a problem. If you decide to go storm born, you don't qualify for any of the feats at level 14. That needs to be fixed.


I imagine goblins as tricksters and pranksters. But, it's just my opinion. Will have to see how our playtest turns out this weekend.


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I thought the 1.0 updates made it to where you no longer needed a free hand if you took Warded Touch.


My Goblin has 18/16/12/12/10/10.

But, if you don't like this way of doing your stats, they do have the option to roll your stats, you just lose one of your ancestry's free boosts.


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In the playtest, I will be playing a Goblin Paladin. But in my honest opinion, goblins, like the 1/e half-orcs, should be too chaotic in nature to become Paladins. I think they should only be able to take alignments along the chaotic axis.

Don't get me wrong, I love goblins. As I've mentioned before, I have a Goblin DK on WoW and she is my main on horde. I just feel that for tabletop RPGs, it'd just be more realistic for them not to be lawful good Paladins. Now, if they make it to where Paladins can be any alignment, it would make more sense.

Just my thoughts.


Does that mean that since you get LoH free, you can choose another champion power at level 1, or is that the only spell power you get at creation?


The book says under Champion Powers in the Paladin class that "You gain the ability to cast the lay on hands champion power by spending 1 Spell point."

Does this mean you automatically get it? Why is it worded this way? It seems to me they were trying to do with this like they did with heal for the cleric, except Paladins don't prepare their powers at the beginning of the day, they can instantly cast any of them by spending 1 spell point and an action (that is if I'm reading it correctly).


Yeah. He finally admitted he was wrong on that.


He's still saying that you should only get strength bonus once. He says everyone else is cheating and he's going to play by what the rulebook says.


HWalsh wrote:
magnaangemon01 wrote:
What exactly is the manipulate trait and how does it affect LoH?
Manipulate allows the Paladin to be AoO'ed for using LoH

So if you get the one ability that allows you to lose the Manipulate trait, you can no longer be AoO'd?


What exactly is the manipulate trait and how does it affect LoH?


HWalsh wrote:

Alternative Single Sword Paladin

01: Warded Touch
02: Hospitalier

03: Weapon Ally

04: Domain (Zeal, if you can, you still want Zeal) (+1 Spell Point)
06: Channel Life (+1 Spell Point)
08: Advanced Domain (You are doing this for +3 Spell Points)

10: Radiant Blade Spirit

The reason I put this here, despite needing to blow a reaction to use it, is because Retributive Strike isn't something you'll get much use out of normally. I don't like powers that revolve around the idea of your GM has to do something for it to happen. So I don't see losing a reaction here a big deal if it adds an extra +1d6 or so damage.

12: Aura of Faith

This is here because you'll be using Litany of Righteousness with this build a lot. This guarantees that you're dealing Good Damage to Evil Enemies at all times. So your Litany will always have damage to work off of.

14: Litany of Righteousness (+1 Spell Point)
16: Attack of Opportunity
18: Angelic Form
20: Radiant Blade Master (Keen is really good in this system)

Note:
Assuming that you have a 20 Charisma by max level with this build (you should) you'll have 10-11 Spell Points by level 15. That isn't too shabby.

-----

Damage-wise you're never going to be doing much here. Ideally you'll be dropping your Litany in a round when you can make 2 swings. Adding +5 Damage (minimum) to each swing, but that only works for 1 round. Aura of Faith ensures that you'll always have the good damage to trigger off of it though.

Weapon Surge is only good for one hit, so it is only good if you would otherwise be attacking 3 times. All it does is add another +1 to one attack with your weapon.

What you will have with this build is staying power. You're going single sword and your Lay on Hands is boosted and doesn't cost you an action. Meaning that you can weather the storm pretty well.

For Domain and Advanced Domain, don't you have to take Cleric Dedication first? Or does the Paladin get it now?


I meant side as in not using double slice for a Paladin. As for everything else, you have great points.

You haven't offended me at all. Sorry if it seems that way.


Double Slice seems good, but I'm going to go with Power Attack this build, as I don't feel like going into Fighter and Cleric to maximize damage and still be able to cast LoH. Will keep Double slice in mind when I decide to try a fighter.


Alright, guys, it's just a playtest. Nothing to get worked up over. Paladin_knight is just trying to tell you how to maximize your damage. What you do after that is up to you. You don't have to take his advice.

Personally, HWalsh, I'm on your side. And that's the great thing about these games. You can do what you want. You can just file away his advice for another character. That's what I'm going to do.

There's really no point getting worked up over something that may not even reach the final product in the same condition.


Maybe not at 1st level, but I can take cleric dedication to make up for that eventually.


I wasn't going for shield as I'm not going tanky (another member of our party is doing that). I was thinking bastard sword and only wielding it one handed when I want to cast LoH.


I'm actually going Paladin.


Emblazoned Symbol allows you to cast a somatic action while wielding with both hands. Lay on Hands is a somatic action.


Prethen wrote:
magnaangemon01 wrote:
Prethen wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
There's a cleric feat that does it, gotta look there.
Sorry, I'm still missing something. I don't see anywhere in the build for that 1at level paladin where a cleric feat comes into play. I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around all the new PF2 rules so please pardon my ignorance.
I found it. If you take Cleric Dedication, it then allows you to take Basic Dogma which gives you a cleric feat:Emblazon Symbol.
Assuming this is a first level character you can't take that feat.

True. But baby steps


Thank you. If Double slice and the sawtooth sabers work together as well as it sounds like, that's potential for a lot of damage.


I'm going to be playtesting the dawn campaign path soon and I'm going to be playing a Paladin that also serves as a healer. I know I should get Cleric Dedication and Basic Dogma:Emblazon Symbol. Any other advice for this build? Ancestry/General feats, etc.

Would it be too much to go Fighter Dedication as well to get Double Slice and equip 2 sawtooth sabers?


Do you have to roll on both attacks? Can you quote from the book to back up your answer?

I'm asking because a friend of mine is really skeptical. He believes that Power Attack is way better than Double slice because you have to roll for both attacks, meaning in the long run, Power Attack does more damage.


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http://pf2playtest.opengamingnetwork.com

Found this. It's a work in progress.


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Prethen wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
There's a cleric feat that does it, gotta look there.
Sorry, I'm still missing something. I don't see anywhere in the build for that 1at level paladin where a cleric feat comes into play. I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around all the new PF2 rules so please pardon my ignorance.

I found it. If you take Cleric Dedication, it then allows you to take Basic Dogma which gives you a cleric feat:Emblazon Symbol.


I can't either. So just going to build the character my way. If it's wrong, it's wrong. Not much of a powergamer anyways.


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One of the main complaints I've noticed is the rulebook layout. You have to search all over the book to find stuff tied to your class. I feel the book needs better organized.


master_marshmallow wrote:
There's a cleric feat that does it, gotta look there.

Looked there. I cannot find this ability.


I've looked through cleric dedication and I don't see how you can cast with a weapon to heal as a Paladin. Where are you finding all this?


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Trixie99 wrote:
One of our major PCs is a drow (the drow in our game world are not CE, but rather LN). We would request that the elf ancestry have options that allow for a drow build.

YES! If goblin can be a race now, I would love to see Drows.


master_marshmallow wrote:
magnaangemon01 wrote:
I'll have to give the second build above a try. Which Champion Powers would you suggest?

The one that gives you heal that you can channel with, and the domain ones that give you zeal and extra spell points for more uses seem like ideal choices, considering most of your other choices are taken up by class stuff.

Double Slice is so good by comparison to all other melee styles it makes me sad.

I didn't see a lot of healing and none to do with zeals. Thinking of taking powers that make me seem angelic and control the weather. I especially like the ones where I can do ranged wind attacks.


master_marshmallow wrote:
magnaangemon01 wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
magnaangemon01 wrote:
I'll have to give the second build above a try. Which Champion Powers would you suggest?

The one that gives you heal that you can channel with, and the domain ones that give you zeal and extra spell points for more uses seem like ideal choices, considering most of your other choices are taken up by class stuff.

Double Slice is so good by comparison to all other melee styles it makes me sad.

Has anyone on here made a Champion Powers list to make it easier to reference?

Considering how bad most of the litanies are, it would seem no one wants to bother.

Bolstered is really bad.

I wasn't expecting a detailed list lol

Just looking for the names to make it easier to look up. I'll take a look myself. All spells listed as "Powers" a Paladin can use, right?


master_marshmallow wrote:
magnaangemon01 wrote:
I'll have to give the second build above a try. Which Champion Powers would you suggest?

The one that gives you heal that you can channel with, and the domain ones that give you zeal and extra spell points for more uses seem like ideal choices, considering most of your other choices are taken up by class stuff.

Double Slice is so good by comparison to all other melee styles it makes me sad.

Has anyone on here made a Champion Powers list to make it easier to reference?


I'll have to give the second build above a try. Which Champion Powers would you suggest?


Fumarole wrote:
Powers, spells and cantrips are all listed in the same chapter as they are not limited to any particular class (in theory). This allows for future books to reference them more easily as more classes are added that have these abilities and need to reference them. I would suggest the chapter name needs to be changed from Spells, though. Perhaps Magic would be a better title.

I wasn't saying completely taking them out of the spells chapter, I was saying reference them with the class, like a short description of what they do and go check the spell chapter for the full effect. Just having them listed with the class would make it easier to look up


That's a lot of feats to cover so many bases. The playtest I'm doing, I'm going to be a Paladin that does most of the healing as well. Trying to round out my character to serve as dps and heals.


Don't you need a free hand to cast Lay on Hands? With the Bastard Sword, it would be 2d12 with two hands, or 2d8 with one hand, which is still decent


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I think Champion Powers should be put in with the Paladin class or at least a short description of each. Seems a real hassle and confusing to dredge all the way through the spells to figure out what to choose.


Paladin_Knight_marshmallow wrote:

sample build:

Human (Merchant)
STR 18 ->19 (5th) ->20 (10th) ->21 (15th) ->22 (20th)
DEX 12 ->14 (20th)
CON 12 ->14 (5th) ->16 (10th) ->18 [ooc](15th)
INT 10 ->12 (20th)
WIS 10 ->12 (5th) ->14 (10th) ->16 (15th) ->18 [ooc](20th)
CHA 16 ->18 (5th) ->19 [ooc](10th) ->20 (15th)

[1] Hospice Knight, Natural Ambition (Warded Touch)
[2] Divine Grace [Fighter Dedication seems better]
[4] Deity's Domain (Zeal- Weapon Surge) [Double Slice seems better]

If you use the Bastard Sword, would it be better to take Basic Maneuver to gain Power Attack?


Well, if you can hold your action in this edition, why not wait until the end of the round so it's flatfooted for one whole round?


Alsolomir wrote:
Attack of opportunity

He's got that listed


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While I'm all for Paizo going their own direction, I'm not a fan of some of their ideas. I'm not sure how I feel about Attack of Opportunity being able to be picked up by certain classes. I don't like how they made all weapons just straight out one damage die. I haven't seen a spellcaster in action yet so I cannot validate those claims but spellcasters should be glass cannons. Rogues have been made pretty much useless. I think ancestry and background feats overcomplicate things. I have to say, so far I'm not impressed with 2e. I've been playing Pathfinder since its inception, including the playtest, but I'm honestly considering hopping back over to D&D. Sorry Paizo, but at this rate, WotC still have you beat. I also understand that this is a playtest, so I will hold off hopping over until I've seen the finished product.


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At level 2 as an Unchained Rogue, I had +30 to Stealth before I even rolled thanks to a piece of gear made from spidersilk.


To be honest, that was the first monster I looked for. I was disappointed.


Tried following the link. Says the page isn't available or doesn't exist. In fact, the playtest page download isn't working for me.


The Paladin gets Attack of Opportunity as a feat. If they're going to take it away on the large part, they should give it to the Rogue as well, either as normal or like Combat Reflexes in 1e.


As you're requesting feedback, I would suggest making the rulebook easier to circumnavigate. Instead of having to look through the whole book to see what things do, put it in the most relevant places. Everything needed for character creation should be in that chapter. You shouldn't have to look 2-3 chapters just to figure out what all your character can do.

Obviously, feats, skills, and spells should be in other chapters, that's understandable. Just everything mentioned should be in those chapters as well.


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Ugh. Not cool. Literally makes the rogue slightly useless in first round of combat.


Zman0 wrote:
magnaangemon01 wrote:
Don't know if anyone has asked this yet, so here goes. What does Expert, Master, and Legendary proficiencies have to do with weapons and armor? I can't find it anywhere.

They add their bonus to your AC and to hit trolls.

For instance, a character who is untrained with a martial longsword's proficiency is level-2. The fighter is an expert with martial weapons including the longsword and his proficiency is calculated level +1.

The same works for armor, essentially moved from trained to expert in heavy armor will add +1 to your AC.

So weapons would be level +2 for master and level +3 for legendary? I assume you add str/dex mod to this as well?


Don't know if anyone has asked this yet, so here goes. What does Expert, Master, and Legendary proficiencies have to do with weapons and armor? I can't find it anywhere.

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