Need advice for a Greatsword Fighter Build


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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magnaangemon01 wrote:
The fighter class I'm reading says maximum of +4 max dex. That's how I read it on d20pfsrd.

Read it again.

Armor Training wrote:
Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.

It increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.


Oh, well, my max dex is +4 anyways with an 18 Dex.


magnaangemon01 wrote:
Oh, well, my max dex is +4 anyways with an 18 Dex.

Yup. But a lv 16 character should have so much gold that I expect you to have a +4 enhancement bonus to all your physical stats, making it a +6 Dex bonus.

This also opens up new options like wearing heavy armor and still benefiting from your full dexterity bonus, like the example of a Mithral Full Plate.

Silver Crusade

You should consider Iron Will mandatory at that level IMHO. Expect to be rolling DC 25 or greater will saves, with nasty consequences for failure.


Wonderstell wrote:
magnaangemon01 wrote:
Oh, well, my max dex is +4 anyways with an 18 Dex.
Yup. But a lv 16 character should have so much gold that I expect you to have a +4 enhancement bonus to all your physical stats, making it a +6 Dex bonus. This also opens up new options like wearing heavy armor and still benefiting from your full dexterity bonus, like the example of a Mithral Full Plate.

Or just get Celestial Full Plate, which has the added benefit of flight several times per day.


Our GM said he'll let us know about gold later. So not sure what I will have yet.


Quick question. How did you get your Dex to 18? I'm assuming you put the 17 into it and it looks like you spent all your stat raises on Str to get it to 24 so it cannot come from there.

[edit] Also for Power Attack, at level 16, the penalty will be -5 and the additional damage 15 points.

Silver Crusade

magnaangemon01 wrote:
Our GM said he'll let us know about gold later. So not sure what I will have yet.

Make sure to buy a +5 Cloak of Resistance; failed saving throws are the biggest threat at this level.


PCScipio wrote:
You should consider Iron Will mandatory at that level IMHO. Expect to be rolling DC 25 or greater will saves, with nasty consequences for failure.

I was suggesting Iron Will, too. Partly for the obvious reason you pointed out, but also as a prerequisite for a level in Living Monolith which would allow him to Enlarge Person as a Swift Action, giving him another 5' of Reach and increasing his Base Damage which would get multiplied by Vital Strike Feats.

Slim Jim wrote:
Or just get Celestial Full Plate

If the OP is wearing Full Plate, then he should consider the Armored Juggernaut Advanced Armor Training which gives him DR/-


Mortis wrote:

Quick question. How did you get your Dex to 18? I'm assuming you put the 17 into it and it looks like you spent all your stat raises on Str to get it to 24 so it cannot come from there.

I'm wondering that myself lol

Mortis wrote:


[edit] Also for Power Attack, at level 16, the penalty will be -5 and the additional damage 15 points.

Furious Focus negates the penalty on the first attack of a round.


Mortis wrote:


[edit] Also for Power Attack, at level 16, the penalty will be -5 and the additional damage 15 points.
Furious Focus negates the penalty on the first attack of a round.

No, I mean the damage bonus. It should go from +13 to +28 (not +25, i.e. 13+15=28).


Mortis wrote:
Mortis wrote:


[edit] Also for Power Attack, at level 16, the penalty will be -5 and the additional damage 15 points.
Furious Focus negates the penalty on the first attack of a round.
No, I mean the damage bonus. It should go from +13 to +28 (not +25, i.e. 13+15=28).

Oh, yeah. I fixed that. I also fixed my Dex, my Ref, and my AC. I feel this character is good to go except for equipment. I'll probably enhance the Axe and upgrade the armor to Heavy, once I know how much money and whatnot that I'm working with.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
PCScipio wrote:
You should consider Iron Will mandatory at that level IMHO. Expect to be rolling DC 25 or greater will saves, with nasty consequences for failure.
I was suggesting Iron Will, too.

I did make my submission a dwarf for a reason....


If you aren't trying to be completely overpowering with a freaking Butchering Axe, I would (and did) suggest that you use a boring old greatsword.

If you want to use the Butchering Axe without going over the top, then you should have plenty feats to spare for Iron Will and the usual generic utility/survivability feats.

You argue against Enlarge Person as being too much, yet insist on the Butchering Axe?

If you are willing to burn the feat for EWP for the Butchering Axe, then it's probably time to go all out for damage... full murder hobo. Otherwise, that's a feat better spent on utility/survivability and you can use the greatsword...


Cleaving Smash and Great Cleave don't work too well together. I could switch out Great Cleave for Iron Will. Bringing my Will up to 13.

How much do Potions of Enlarge Person cost?

And couldn't I use my Advanced Weapon Training: Warrior Spirit to give it Impact?

That would make it 6d6, right?


Slim Jim wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
PCScipio wrote:
You should consider Iron Will mandatory at that level IMHO. Expect to be rolling DC 25 or greater will saves, with nasty consequences for failure.
I was suggesting Iron Will, too.
I did make my submission a dwarf for a reason....

Because of that Saving Throw Bonus? Also, because of "Slow and Steady?" What do you think of the Spell Resistance Alternate Racial Trait that Dwarves have?


Anyone?


magnaangemon01 wrote:
Cleaving Smash and Great Cleave don't work too well together. I could switch out Great Cleave for Iron Will. Bringing my Will up to 13.

I'd rather be able to attack everything I can reach with my regular damage than hit two guys for extra.

Even with all the feats you've poured into it, Vital Strike still does less damage than your full attack. I don't think it's worth building a whole character around so much as it rounds you out so you're not stuck with one regular attack every time you have to move more than 5ft.

magnaangemon01 wrote:
How much do Potions of Enlarge Person cost?

Potions are spell level × caster level × 50, so 1×1×50=50, in this case.

magnaangemon01 wrote:
And couldn't I use my Advanced Weapon Training: Warrior Spirit to give it Impact?

Impact gives your weapon a virtual size increase. Your weapon deals damage "as if it were one size category larger." Enlarge Person actually makes you larger. So you end up with a large axe that deals damage as if it were huge. I believe it progresses as follows: 3d6, 4d6, 5d6...so 20d6 with Greater Vital Strike?


3d6/4d6/6d6 actually


Yuck.

I won't pretend to understand the logic behind such progressions, but there you have it.

The butchering axe and the horn bow are easily my least favorite weapons. And the fact that enlarge person and impact/lead blades are such auto-includes is a sad thing.


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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
I was suggesting Iron Will, too.
I did make my submission a dwarf for a reason....
Because of that Saving Throw Bonus?
Their racial bumps (Con and Wis) are where front-liners facing saves will need them, they have Hardy built-in, as well as Glory of Old and Steel Soul for trait and feat options.
Quote:
Also, because of "Slow and Steady?"
Mobility shouldn't be a problem for a 16th-level character.
Quote:
What do you think of the Spell Resistance Alternate Racial Trait that Dwarves have?

It depends on the your foreknowledge of the GM's typical monster deployment as to whether that or Hardy is better. If he starts bringing in things that top over your 16th-level character's 21SR, then you're better off with Hardy. (SR also doesn't work on poison, in case he's a big fan of things that go bite in the night.)

On the previous page, I had the 45pt-buy allocated thus:

STR: 18 (raise 16th + Manual of Gainful Exercise)
DEX: 16
CON+ 19 (raise 4th)
INT: 15 (raise 12th; throw new points into Fly)
WIS+ 15 (raise 8th)
CHA- 8

This 16th-level dwarven warpriest will have +15 Fortitude and +14 Will before factoring Hardy, Glory of Old, Steel Soul, or a Cloak of Resistance, ioun stones or any other gear, or any of his spells that he'll pop off as a Swift action. He has +4 Sacred Armor, +4 Sacred Weapon, and 2d6 base Sacred dice. Is his strength not 28? Who cares when you're Divine Power +6 in every combat, then adding Righteous Might next round?


Usually, I use a Greatsword, but I just recently found out about the Butchering Axe, and thought I'd try it out.


magnaangemon01 wrote:
Usually, I use a Greatsword, but I just recently found out about the Butchering Axe, and thought I'd try it out.

I just thought about this.

Your Butchering Axe does 3d6. Dip a level in Ranger and use a Wand of Lead Blades to give yourself a Virtual Size Increase and do 4d6. Dip a level in Living Monolith and do 6d6.

You are taking Vitals Strike Feats, so that will be 12d6, 18d6, and 24d6, respectively when you get them.

Here's the part I was thinking. Dip into Barbarian, and take the Furious Finish Feat. Then you automatically do Maximum Damage when you hit! Also take the Recovered Rage Feat. If you destroy whatever you just hit (with 72 points of damage at like level 8), you go back into Rage.

Sovereign Court

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I just thought about this. ...

Here's the part I was thinking. Dip into Barbarian, and take the Furious Finish Feat.

We talked about that 50 posts ago.

Also, Recovered Rage does nothing for the fatigue and Furious Finish makes you fatigued for 1 round(even if you are immune) unless you remove the condition somehow (the reason for my paladin suggestion). So at best you are looking at your big hit every other round unless you want to risk exhaustion (roused anger).

You would need to kill 6 (sort of challenging) creatures with Recovered Rage a day for it to be better than Extra Rage. A couple of Torc's of Bloody Rage once you get some gold going is probably better then spending a feat on it. 8k for 3 extra rounds is a little steep, but high levels its pocket change.


Firebug wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I just thought about this. ...

Here's the part I was thinking. Dip into Barbarian, and take the Furious Finish Feat.

We talked about that 50 posts ago.

Also, Recovered Rage does nothing for the fatigue and Furious Finish makes you fatigued for 1 round(even if you are immune) unless you remove the condition somehow (the reason for my paladin suggestion). So at best you are looking at your big hit every other round unless you want to risk exhaustion (roused anger).

You would need to kill 6 (sort of challenging) creatures with Recovered Rage a day for it to be better than Extra Rage. A couple of Torc's of Bloody Rage once you get some gold going is probably better then spending a feat on it. 8k for 3 extra rounds is a little steep, but high levels its pocket change.

Lesser Restoration is a Level 1 Spell. Maybe also pocket some potions and take Potion Glutton or something.

Sovereign Court

For some classes its a level 1 spell (namely paladin). Still takes a 3 round cast time though which kinda defeats the purpose since the fatigue from Furious Finish is only 1 round. Potions are where its at, though potion glutton sort of locks you into a deity and your swift action every round.


I mean...theres a lot of dipping for wand use and into a weird osirian prc in this thread.

You could always just be an abyssal bloodrager and get impact on your butchering axe....then you qualify for furious finish as well while not needing to scamper all around.

At level 4 the abyssal bloodrager enlarges when they rage, they also increase their strength bonus from rage. It cuts most of the rube goldberg machine out.


Potion Glutton got FAQ'd to be a move action rather than a swift action.

The usual way to make Furious Finish work is to use a Flawed Scarlet and Green Cabochon and the Internal Fortitude rage power. When ending a rage, you become sickened instead of fatigued, which doesn't prevent you from raging, and when you enter a new rage, your then immunity takes care of the condition.

However, Furious Finish only works with Vital Strike, not the Improved or Greater feats.

And to support what Ryan Freire said, when increasing damage dice for Vital Strike, the Impact enchantment is actually very good, way better than wasting a level and a standard action. A Vital Strike build doesn't need a regular enhancement bonus that much, as accuracy and DR are less of an issue.


Derklord wrote:
Potion Glutton got FAQ'd to be a move action rather than a swift action.

I was not aware of that FAQ. Thank you.

Derklord wrote:
The usual way to make Furious Finish work is to use a Flawed Scarlet and Green Cabochon and the Internal Fortitude rage power. When ending a rage, you become sickened instead of fatigued, which doesn't prevent you from raging, and when you enter a new rage, your then immunity takes care of the condition.

Cool.

Derklord wrote:
However, Furious Finish only works with Vital Strike, not the Improved or Greater feats.

Too bad. I'm tempted to call cheese on that, but glass houses and all...

Derklord wrote:
And to support what Ryan Freire said, when increasing damage dice for Vital Strike, the Impact enchantment is actually very good, way better than wasting a level and a standard action. A Vital Strike build doesn't need a regular enhancement bonus that much, as accuracy and DR are less of an issue.

Impact is better, but a Wand of Lead Blades is cheaper. Meanwhile, dipping a level in Ranger is not a waste.


if you got Cornugon Smash. you should try and nip hurtful as well. a free swift attack once you demoralize some1 is always great.

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