Need advice for a Greatsword Fighter Build


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One of our GMs asked us to make a level 16 character as we would be heroes coming out of retirement.

I need advice for race and feat progression.

The numbers I rolled for stats are:

10
17
16
15
18
13

I like being able to deal massive damage and take down more than one creature, if possible.


Can't figure out how to edit. Some changes have been made. I will be a Lizardfolk with the Butchering Axe.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/axe-butcheri ng/

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Not in order:

Power attack
Furious focus
Weapon focus
Weapon spec
Greater weapon focus
Greater weapon spec
Vital strike
Improved vital strike
Greater vital strike
Deviating strike

Cut from the air
Smash from the air
Improved bravery
Iron will
Lunge


This is what I came up with. Feel free to fix it.

Strength: 24 +7
Dexterity: 18 +4
Constitution: 18 +4
Intelligence: 13 +1
Wisdom: 10 +0
Charisma: 15 +2

Butchering Axe:
25/20/15/10
1d12+14(26 power attack)(+6 on Vital Strikes)
19-20/x3

Scale Mail:
AC: 19 (+5 Armor, +3 Max Dex, +1 Natural Armor)
-4 Armor Check

Exotic Weapon Proficiency- Level 1
Power Attack- Level 1
Weapon Focus (ButcheringAxe)- Level 2
Quick Draw- Level 3
Weapon Specialization- Level 4
Combat Reflexes- Level 5
Vital Strike- Level 6
Furious Focus- Level 7
Greater Weapon Focus- Level 8
Critical Focus- Level 9
Improved Critical- Level 10
Improved Vital Strike- Level 11
Greater Weapon Specialization- Level 12
Devastating Strike- Level 13
Death or Glory- Level 14
Improved Devastating Strike- Level 15
Greater Vital Strike- Level 16


Anybody else? Anything I don't need and switch out for?


Be the Two-handed Fighter archetype, use a greatsword, and worship Gorum...

1. Power Attack
1. Improved Initiative
2. Combat Reflexes
3. Iron Will
4. Improved Bullrush
5. Rhino Charge
6. Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique
7. Vital Strike
8. Improved Vital Strike
9. Devastating Strike
10. Gorum's Advanced Fighting Technique
11. Devastating Charge
12. Furious Focus
13. Improved Devastating Strike
14.
15.
16. Greater Vital Strike

Overhand Chop Ex. Gives you double strength bonus to damage on a charge.

Rhino Charge lets you ready a charge.

Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique allows you to use Vital Strike feats on a charge.

Devastating Charge gives you 3D4 more damage on a charge.

Plus you get Backswing, Piledriver, and Greater Power Attack from the archetype, which is awesome.

Enchant your Adamantine Greatsword with Keen and Impact.

Enjoy.


VoodistMonk wrote:

Be the Two-handed Fighter archetype, use a greatsword, and worship Gorum...

1. Power Attack
1. Improved Initiative
2. Combat Reflexes
3. Iron Will
4. Improved Bullrush
5. Rhino Charge
6. Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique
7. Vital Strike
8. Improved Vital Strike
9. Devastating Strike
10. Gorum's Advanced Fighting Technique
11. Devastating Charge
12. Furious Focus
13. Improved Devastating Strike
14.
15.
16. Greater Vital Strike

Overhand Chop Ex. Gives you double strength bonus to damage on a charge.

Rhino Charge lets you ready a charge.

Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique allows you to use Vital Strike feats on a charge.

Devastating Charge gives you 3D4 more damage on a charge.

Plus you get Backswing, Piledriver, and Greater Power Attack from the archetype, which is awesome.

Enchant your Adamantine Greatsword with Keen and Impact.

Enjoy.

Not bad.

I made my character so I could move around and still get in a massive hit. Plus Butchering Axe sounds better with Vital Strike than a Greatsword. I realize Keen on a Greatsword is cool, but I'm going for best non crit damage.

I feel that this setup won't work with this character, but I'm going to probably use this for a future character.

Also, I'm not going for OP, just for fun. I'm trying to see if maybe there's something better to use with the build than Critical Focus, Death or Glory, or Improved Devastating Strike.


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Quote:
One of our GMs asked us to make a level 16 character as we would be heroes coming out of retirement.

Translation: he's going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at you, and is basically telling you so. Prepare accordingly.

Dwarf: Oorah!

STR: 18 (raise 16th + Manual of Gainful Exercise)
DEX: 16
CON+ 19 (raise 4th)
INT: 15 (raise 12th; throw new points into Fly)
WIS+ 15 (raise 8th)
CHA- 8

Traits: Fate's Favored, Glory of Old

Build: 16th-level Warpriest (no archetype); worship: Torag

Feats: 1. Steel Soul, 1(warp). Weapon Focus (Warhammer). 1(warp). (exchange a minor Blessing for Divine Fighting Technique: Torag's Patient Strikes)

...At 1st level, you're rocking paladin-like saves, and have picked up WF and a spiffy upgraded version of Combat Reflexes (DFT:WoPS) that works even while flat-footed (and counts for prereqs) in a race/class combo that otherwise looks like it should be getting only one feat on paper at 1st.
...Do not neglect your "obediences" (see Torag link); it'll give you a +1 Sacred bonus to attack.
...At 16th, the base dice of warhammers will be 2d6.

3 Additional Traits (Accelerated Drinker, Militant Merchant), 3(warp). Improved Initiative

...You can Enlarge yourself as a move-action, and Perception is now a class skill (nice, as you have the wisdom to use it).

5. Power Attack
6(warp). Vital Strike
7. Blessed Hammer (Yes! Yes! Yes!)
9. Cut From the Air, 9(warp). Smash From the Air
10(warp). (exchange a major Blessing for Divine Fighting Technique: Torag's Patient Strikes Advanced Benefit)
11. Improved Vital Strike
12(warp). FEAT(c)
13. FEAT(g)
15. FEAT(g)
16. (retrain any existing Warpriest bonus feat to Greater Vital Strike)

Gear: (315,000 gp WBL) Belt of Physical Perfection +6, bling adamantine warhammer, dope heavy shield, metamagic rods and tons of cheap wands, Celestial Plate Armor, Dwarven Commander's Helm with Paired Opportunists as its Teamwork feat, Boots of Speed, anything that grants greater reach, Vestments of War, Vibrant Purple Prism ioun stone (resonating in a Wayfinder), Dark Blue Rhomboid ioun, various other iouns.

Tactics: layeth the supreme beat-down on any poor flathead dumb enough to grant you an Attack of Opportunity (it'll be an 8d6 Greater Vital Strike warhammer smack, or 12d6 if you're Enlarged).


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First question: Why Fighter?
Second Question: Does it have to be Fighter?
Third question: What books are allowed?


Derklord wrote:

First question: Why Fighter?

Second Question: Does it have to be Fighter?
Third question: What books are allowed?

Fighter is my favorite class.

No, it doesn't have to be.

Has to be published by Paizo; no third party stuff.

Sovereign Court

What about something with fatigue removal (say Paladin LoH) mixed with Bloodrager (because alignment) and Furious Finish to simply maximize your one big hit a round (and then swift to remove the condition). You might need the GM to rule that Improved and Greater Vital Strike count as the Vital Strike feat for the purposes of Furious Finish though.
You could go Abyssal Bloodrager 4 to free action (part of bloodrage) Enlarge Person. Or Arcane 4 for some defensive buffs.
Paladin 11 gets you Aura of Justice, basically giving everyone in the party your Smite Evil.


Firebug wrote:

What about something with fatigue removal (say Paladin LoH) mixed with Bloodrager (because alignment) and Furious Finish to simply maximize your one big hit a round (and then swift to remove the condition). You might need the GM to rule that Improved and Greater Vital Strike count as the Vital Strike feat for the purposes of Furious Finish though.

You could go Abyssal Bloodrager 4 to free action (part of bloodrage) Enlarge Person. Or Arcane 4 for some defensive buffs.
Paladin 11 gets you Aura of Justice, basically giving everyone in the party your Smite Evil.

He said no bloodrager. Didn't say why, just it wouldn't be a good idea.


magnaangemon01 wrote:
VoodistMonk wrote:

Be the Two-handed Fighter archetype, use a greatsword, and worship Gorum...

1. Power Attack
1. Improved Initiative
2. Combat Reflexes
3. Iron Will
4. Improved Bullrush
5. Rhino Charge
6. Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique
7. Vital Strike
8. Improved Vital Strike
9. Devastating Strike
10. Gorum's Advanced Fighting Technique
11. Devastating Charge
12. Furious Focus
13. Improved Devastating Strike
14.
15.
16. Greater Vital Strike

Overhand Chop Ex. Gives you double strength bonus to damage on a charge.

Rhino Charge lets you ready a charge.

Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique allows you to use Vital Strike feats on a charge.

Devastating Charge gives you 3D4 more damage on a charge.

Plus you get Backswing, Piledriver, and Greater Power Attack from the archetype, which is awesome.

Enchant your Adamantine Greatsword with Keen and Impact.

Enjoy.

Not bad.

I made my character so I could move around and still get in a massive hit. Plus Butchering Axe sounds better with Vital Strike than a Greatsword. I realize Keen on a Greatsword is cool, but I'm going for best non crit damage.

I feel that this setup won't work with this character, but I'm going to probably use this for a future character.

Also, I'm not going for OP, just for fun. I'm trying to see if maybe there's something better to use with the build than Critical Focus, Death or Glory, or Improved Devastating Strike.

Look into Weapon Focus/Weapon Trick, and grab some Cleave feats to use Vital Strike feats with Cleave...?


VoodistMonk wrote:
magnaangemon01 wrote:
VoodistMonk wrote:

Be the Two-handed Fighter archetype, use a greatsword, and worship Gorum...

1. Power Attack
1. Improved Initiative
2. Combat Reflexes
3. Iron Will
4. Improved Bullrush
5. Rhino Charge
6. Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique
7. Vital Strike
8. Improved Vital Strike
9. Devastating Strike
10. Gorum's Advanced Fighting Technique
11. Devastating Charge
12. Furious Focus
13. Improved Devastating Strike
14.
15.
16. Greater Vital Strike

Overhand Chop Ex. Gives you double strength bonus to damage on a charge.

Rhino Charge lets you ready a charge.

Gorum's Divine Fighting Technique allows you to use Vital Strike feats on a charge.

Devastating Charge gives you 3D4 more damage on a charge.

Plus you get Backswing, Piledriver, and Greater Power Attack from the archetype, which is awesome.

Enchant your Adamantine Greatsword with Keen and Impact.

Enjoy.

Not bad.

I made my character so I could move around and still get in a massive hit. Plus Butchering Axe sounds better with Vital Strike than a Greatsword. I realize Keen on a Greatsword is cool, but I'm going for best non crit damage.

I feel that this setup won't work with this character, but I'm going to probably use this for a future character.

Also, I'm not going for OP, just for fun. I'm trying to see if maybe there's something better to use with the build than Critical Focus, Death or Glory, or Improved Devastating Strike.

Look into Weapon Focus/Weapon Trick, and grab some Cleave feats to use Vital Strike feats with Cleave...?

Not sure how that would work. If it's my first attack, would I add Vital Strike to each creature I cleave into, considering, technically, it's still the same attack?

With Weapon Trick Cleaving Smash, my weapon loses the Vital Strike damage after the second strike.

Instead of Weapon Trick, why not Vicious Cleave? It allows me to add my Greater Vital Strike to Cleaves.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

How has no one mentioned Advanced Weapon Training!? Absolutely a must-have on any Fighter build of 5th level or higher! You can take it up to three times as a feat as a 16th level Fighter, plus two more times by exchanging your 9th and 13th level weapon training groups (since you really only care about heavy blades anyways).

The biggest Advanced Weapon Training to look at on a two-handed weapon build is Warrior Spirit. 4 times per day (6 times with gloves of dueling) you can give your weapon any combination of magical enhancements that add up to +3 (+5 with gloves of dueling... use gloves of dueling) for 1 minute. Need a holy weapon to beat a fiend? Now your weapon is holy. Want to slay a dragon? Now your weapon is dragon bane. Absolutely superb for giving your fighter the right tool for any situation.

Then there's Armed Bravery and Fighter's Reflexes, which boost your will save and reflex save. Fighters don't have very strong saves by default, and these two options pretty much patch that right up! Speaking of patching up Fighter problems, Versatile Training gives you maxed ranks and class skill in two skills. With heavy blades, that's Diplomacy and Ride. That can really alleviate the skill point issue. Note that you can take Empathic Diplomatic to use Wisdom instead of Charisma when making Diplomacy checks, which practically makes your Fighter a party face! There are plenty of other great options there, and no Fighter should be without Advanced Weapon Training!

Another cool combo that works at these high levels is Flickering Step with Dimensional Dervish. It's intensive on feats, but it lets you teleport and full attack a few times per day which is really cool and can get you out of a tight spot. You might also take the Teleportation Mastery feat for a few more uses per day.

You should also take some critical focus feats at your level. Improved Critical, Critical Focus, and your choice of critical feat can all be a big deal.

Sovereign Court

magnaangemon01 wrote:
He said no bloodrager. Didn't say why, just it wouldn't be a good idea.

Presumably "He" is the GM. I originally read that as the OP said no Bloodrager, typed up a response, and then realized you were the OP.

Ok, how about instead of Bloodrager going with Ranger Wild Stalker 4, or Skald 7(though you give up Greater Vital Strike due to BAB).
You could do Gray Paladin as Neutral Good and take Barbarian or swap the Paladin bit for Agathion Outer Channeler Medium 6(cancel that, gets LoH but not Mercies), Dreamstalker Mesmerist 3, or Pain Phrenic Psychic 6. Unfortunately, the other classes are not full BAB, so you miss out on Greater Vital Strike again.
I am sure there are other ways to remove Fatigue as a swift (sipping jacket, etc), or to gain the rage ability without alignment restrictions (Anger Inquisition), but this is just to encourage out of the box thinking.
All of these are first party, and in fact all PFS legal.


I like Fighters because they're not as complex. The more complex they are, the harder time I have playing them.

Sovereign Court

Something like Paladin 11/Ranger 5(Wild Stalker) might be a little complex just with all the different moving pieces when building it, but once you have made the all the choices it should be fairly simple, just with a lot of "just-in-case" abilities.
The most complex bit would be memorizing spells, or when your bonuses apply (ie, you used smite evil, favored terrain, power attack or not) or what immunities you have.
Typically round: free action rage, move adjacent, standard action greater vital strike (retraining to get it at 16) with Furious Finish, swift action LoH to heal yourself for at least 5d6 and to remove the Fatigue.
With an Impact Butchering Axe when you are enlarged (say from a potion), it should be 6d6 base weapon, +18d6 greater vital strike, all maximized so minimum of 144 damage before any modifiers(PA, Str, Devastating Strike, Enhancement/etc) or critting at all. You don't even have to worry about finding 24d6 since they are all maximized.
Taking Extra Rage once and you likely have 10 rounds of this per day.
Take Heroes Defiance as your level 1 Paladin spells, so if you get dropped to 0 you get to immediately LoH +1d6 to hopefully keep you alive. Resist Energy for your 2nd level slots(because its always useful), and Angelic Aspect for your 3rd(Resistances/DR/Flight). Cheetah's Sprint for your Ranger spells so you have a 100' dash(really 200-300') ability when you need it. Or tack on Skirmisher Ranger archetype to trade out spells for a trick(2+wis mod /day), like Chameleon Step or Second Chance Strike to reroll (at a -5) your big attack (though this is an immediate action, pushing the fatigue clearing for a round).
Plus, you can use Ranger wands/scrolls so wand of Heightened Awareness to pretend to have Improved Initiative, Longstrider for additional move speed, Barkskin/etc.
You also get a rage power with Wild Stalker 5, so something like Lesser Celestial Totem or Lesser Spirit Totem could be fun, or if you want to go 6 Ranger you can get Spell Sunder and potentially turn off that Forcecage that locked you down.

Frankly, you could probably go with Archetypes for both Paladin and Ranger that trade out your spell casting to simplify if you wanted.


Firebug wrote:

Something like Paladin 11/Ranger 5(Wild Stalker) might be a little complex just with all the different moving pieces when building it, but once you have made the all the choices it should be fairly simple, just with a lot of "just-in-case" abilities.

The most complex bit would be memorizing spells, or when your bonuses apply (ie, you used smite evil, favored terrain, power attack or not) or what immunities you have.
Typically round: free action rage, move adjacent, standard action greater vital strike (retraining to get it at 16) with Furious Finish, swift action LoH to heal yourself for at least 5d6 and to remove the Fatigue.
With an Impact Butchering Axe when you are enlarged (say from a potion), it should be 6d6 base weapon, +18d6 greater vital strike, all maximized so minimum of 144 damage before any modifiers(PA, Str, Devastating Strike, Enhancement/etc) or critting at all. You don't even have to worry about finding 24d6 since they are all maximized.
Taking Extra Rage once and you likely have 10 rounds of this per day.
Take Heroes Defiance as your level 1 Paladin spells, so if you get dropped to 0 you get to immediately LoH +1d6 to hopefully keep you alive. Resist Energy for your 2nd level slots(because its always useful), and Angelic Aspect for your 3rd(Resistances/DR/Flight). Cheetah's Sprint for your Ranger spells so you have a 100' dash(really 200-300') ability when you need it. Or tack on Skirmisher Ranger archetype to trade out spells for a trick(2+wis mod /day), like Chameleon Step or Second Chance Strike to reroll (at a -5) your big attack (though this is an immediate action, pushing the fatigue clearing for a round).
Plus, you can use Ranger wands/scrolls so wand of Heightened Awareness to pretend to have Improved Initiative, Longstrider for additional move speed, Barkskin/etc.
You also get a rage power with Wild Stalker 5, so something like Lesser Celestial Totem or Lesser Spirit Totem could be fun, or if you want to go 6 Ranger you can get Spell Sunder and potentially turn off that...

Sounds OP. We have a few power players in our group, but nowhere near this good. I would be the most hated player in our group lol

And that includes my wife. Not sure being OP is worth her wrath. But, hey, if I ever join PFS, I'll give it a try.

Sovereign Court

So use a Greatsword instead of the Butchering Axe with Gorum's divine fighting style to use it on AoO/Charge as well. The damage drops down a tier to something like 3d6(12d6 Greater Vital) if you don't enlarge or 72 with furious finish (before static mods).
Otherwise, you don't have to use furious finish every time, just hold it in your pocket for when you really need that one guy to die.


Firebug wrote:

So use a Greatsword instead of the Butchering Axe with Gorum's divine fighting style to use it on AoO/Charge as well. The damage drops down a tier to something like 3d6(12d6 Greater Vital) if you don't enlarge or 72 with furious finish (before static mods).

Otherwise, you don't have to use furious finish every time, just hold it in your pocket for when you really need that one guy to die.

Okay. Thank you for the advice. Sounds good.

One thing I don't understand is how you're getting Greater Vital Strike so high. I'm only seeing it as an extra 4 dice added to weapon damage.


Two-handed Fighter archetype - Race: Any

This is what I call the "Vital Strike Blender" build. Run in and start Cleaving everything with AoE Vital Strikes, and any time something dies, your Improved Cleaving Finish gives you extra attacks (also with Vital Strikes-- you're still cleaving after all).

Get an Effortless Lace so you can reduce the penalty to attack with a weapon that is larger than your own size by 2. Then put that Effortless Lace on a Huge Greatsword (your penalty to hit will only be -2). Then drink an Enlarge Person Potion (or get your friendly Wizard to buff you). Now you're going to cause damage as a Gargantuan Greatsword (which is 6d6 damage).

Now let's assume you have a strength of 24 (8 modifier. With Greater Vital Strike, this dmg becomes 18d6 + 6d6 + 20 (Greater PA) + 12 (1.5x Str) = 24d6+32; and that's without including any other bonuses to damage from Enchants and w/e else. That's similar damage to throwing empowered fireballs every time you hit.

You'll be Large Size, so you'll also threaten a 10ft range rather than 5ft range.

Enchant that Greatsword with +4 Brilliant Energy and +1 Cruel and Max your Intimidate Skill.

1. Power Attack
1. Cleave
2. Cleaving Finish
3. Furious Focus
4. Great Cleave
5. Weapon Focus
6. Improved Cleaving Finish
7. Vital Strike
8. Vicious Cleave
9. Dazzling Display
10. Cornugon Smash
11. Improved Vital Strike
12. Critical Focus
13. Improved Critical (Greatsword)
14. Shatter Defenses
15. Staggering Critical (or Blinding Critical)
16. Greater Vital Strike

With Power Attack, Cornugon Smash and +1 Cruel weapon, you'll be Shaken/Sickening each time you hit (-4att, saves, skills, abilchecks, & -2 dmg). Each time you hit a Shakened target, they become Flat-footed with Shatter Defenses. With a Brilliant Energy weapon vs. a Flat-footed target, their AC is now nearly non-existent because you're bypassing any dex/dodge, armor, & shield bonuses.

Your crit range should be 17-20, and any time you critically strike, you also Stagger (or Blind) the target. You're going to be rolling a lot of attacks because of Improved Cleaving Finish and a 10ft reach, so that's a lot of chances to Stagger (or Blind). Blind is really, really good, but Staggering opponents removes their Action Economy. Your group will love you, your DM will consider nuking you from orbit ;)

Edit: Also, get Boots of Haste for w/e you go against single targets. With your Full Attack action, that's going to be 5 attacks while hasted. Yep, 5 times 24d6+32 in a single round.

Sovereign Court

Ryze Kuja wrote:

Two-handed Fighter archetype - Race: Any

...
Then put that Effortless Lace on a Huge Greatsword (your penalty to hit will only be -2).

Full stop.

You have no way of wielding a huge(or even just large) 2h weapon. You didn't even attempt to do Titan Fighter/Titan Mauler for at least 1 size increase. Effortless Lace doesn't even work on two handed weapons.
Inappropriately Sized Weapons wrote:

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.


Firebug wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:

Two-handed Fighter archetype - Race: Any

...
Then put that Effortless Lace on a Huge Greatsword (your penalty to hit will only be -2).

Full stop.

You have no way of wielding a huge(or even just large) 2h weapon. You didn't even attempt to do Titan Fighter/Titan Mauler for at least 1 size increase. Effortless Lace doesn't even work on two handed weapons.
Inappropriately Sized Weapons wrote:

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

Well, dang. :P I'll think of another one.


Or just use a normal sized greatsword. Don't have to change anything about it, other than not using a large weapon.


Also, Vicious Cleave is a 3rd party feat.


I still don't see how everyone is getting 12d6-18d6 with Greater Vital Strike. By my math, I can only reach 7d6. Without Enlarge Person, how are you all getting it so high?


Okay. I reread the feat. I got it up to 12d6. Still not seeing 18d6 though.

Sovereign Court

A normal Greatsword is 2d6. With just Greater Vital Strike you are at 8d6.
So... how are you getting a prime number of dice? Maybe you were just adding 1d6 instead of 2d6 each time?
Greater Vital Strike is roll (all) the weapon dice 4 times and add them together.
Then you add size increases, either through using a larger weapon (titan archetypes), becoming larger yourself (enlarge person), and 'as if larger' effects (impact weapon, lead blades). Per a FAQ, you cannot stack multiple 'as if larger' abilities.
The size charge goes 2d6 -> 3d6 -> 4d6 -> 6d6
So Greater Vital Strike with a 3 size increased Greatsword (or a 2 size increased Butchering Axe) is roll 4 times 6d6 or 24d6.
I mentioned Impact (which is 1 'as if' increase) in my examples, and also using enlarge person potions (1 actual size increase).
When I mentioned 18d6 earlier, I was basically saying what Greater was adding to the base weapon (ie your normal weapon was 6d6, then greater adds 18d6 over the base for a total of 24d6)


I doubt I'll ever get Enlarged Person cast on me. Our DM was adamant about not becoming too OP. I see 12d6+32 with Power Attack and Devastating Strike being pretty badass in our group by itself.


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magnaangemon01 wrote:
I like Fighters because they're not as complex. The more complex they are, the harder time I have playing them.
Give Warpriest a look-see. They're not that complicated, and you'll definitely have more to do out-of-combat (i.e., aside from pure roleplay). They're especially good for Vital Strike builds, because any weapon they take Weapon Focus in becomes a "sacred" weapon with automatically increasing damage dice as the character levels. E.g., Weapon Focus: Toothpick means toothpicks are 2d6 weapons at 16th, melee or thrown. Basically, anything you want will be at least as good as a greatsword.
magnaangemon01 wrote:
I doubt I'll ever get Enlarged Person cast on me. Our DM was adamant about not becoming too OP.

Is this guy nuts? He's telling you to make a 16th-level character (and those should come with over 300,000gp to spend), but might consider you overpowered if a 1st-level wizard buffs you with a 1st-level spell? (Meanwhile, the 16th-level party wizard arrives at the table with a Haversack stuffed full of gear he crafted, having effectively doubled his starting money.)

<shaking head><disaster looms>

Sovereign Court

Slim Jim wrote:
Give Warpriest a look-see. They're not that complicated, and you'll definitely have more to do out-of-combat (i.e., aside from pure roleplay). They're especially good for Vital Strike builds, because any weapon they take Weapon Focus in becomes a "sacred" weapon with automatically increasing damage dice as the character levels. E.g., Weapon Focus: Toothpick means toothpicks are 2d6 weapons at 16th, melee or thrown. Basically, anything you want will be at least as good as a greatsword.

For sacred weapon damage, you can choose the damage the weapon normally does, or the sacred chart based on your size.

Impact and other 'as if' is the damage the weapon normally does, and should not affect the sacred weapon damage. Enlarge will work fine with sacred because you actually are that size. So you can choose the Impact Short Sword for 1d8, or Sacred damage of 2d6 in your example, not 3d6 Sacred with Impact. Ie, an impact butchering axe would normally be 4d6, but if you used Sacred it would be worse at 2d6. Sacred is there to make the 'bad' favored deity weapons 'better'.


He said he'd tell us about money and possibly any magic or wondrous items closer to the game.

Also, I'm a Lizardfolk, so I'm adamant on staying Fighter. I wouldn't be prone to trying Barbarian though. Just no divine classes, please.

We're pretty laid back. None of us are part of PFS and everyone gets pretty angry if a player is too broken.


Firebug wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Give Warpriest a look-see. They're not that complicated, and you'll definitely have more to do out-of-combat (i.e., aside from pure roleplay). They're especially good for Vital Strike builds, because any weapon they take Weapon Focus in becomes a "sacred" weapon with automatically increasing damage dice as the character levels. E.g., Weapon Focus: Toothpick means toothpicks are 2d6 weapons at 16th, melee or thrown. Basically, anything you want will be at least as good as a greatsword.

For sacred weapon damage, you can choose the damage the weapon normally does, or the sacred chart based on your size.

Impact and other 'as if' is the damage the weapon normally does, and should not affect the sacred weapon damage. Enlarge will work fine with sacred because you actually are that size. So you can choose the Impact Short Sword for 1d8, or Sacred damage of 2d6 in your example, not 3d6 Sacred with Impact. Ie, an impact butchering axe would normally be 4d6, but if you used Sacred it would be worse at 2d6. Sacred is there to make the 'bad' favored deity weapons 'better'.

I mentioned neither butchering axes nor impact weapons.

(At a +2 enhancement cost, Impact is a rather crappy enhancement, as many are. A straight +2 bonus would be better.)


magnaangemon01 wrote:
We're pretty laid back. None of us are part of PFS and everyone gets pretty angry if a player is too broken.

Everything is broken at 16th-level. You have to *work* to make a character not broke.

When you asked for a greatsword build, respondents reasonably assumed you desired uber damage.


I couldn't figure out how to edit the title to Great Weapon Fighter after I learned about the Butchering Axe.

Also, while uber damage can be great, I'm opting for fun this time. Doesn't have to be OP, but just fun to play.


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Then make sure you have access to Flight, See Invisibility, and Freedom of Movement, and either a way to teleport/planeshift or to prevent opponents from doing so. At 16th level everything you're fighting is going to be flying, afflict you with conditions, able to turn invisible, and probably able to teleport/plane shift too.

Trust me, its tough to be a melee fighter when your opponent is an invisible pile of tentacles 300ft in the air capable of teleporting to another plane if it ends up in danger.


I'd consider options that avoid focusing overmuch on specific weapons (Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus/Specialization, etc). The 5 feats you save can go a long way toward making you more well-rounded and better prepared for the fairly crazy stuff you'll encounter at that level, and you won't be as vulnerable to having your very specific and most likely uncommon weapon of choice stolen/destroyed/what-have-you.


HP: 163

Strength: 24 +7
Dexterity: 18 +4
Constitution: 18 +4
Intelligence: 13 +1
Wisdom: 10 +0
Charisma: 15 +2

Butchering Axe:
25/20/15/10
3d6(12d6 with Greater Vital Strike)+14(26 power attack)(+6 on Vital Strikes)19-20/x3

Scale Mail:
AC: 19 (+5 Armor, +3 Max Dex, +1 Natural Armor)(17 while Great Cleaving)
Flat Footed: 16
Touch: 13
-4 Armor Check

Exotic Weapon Proficiency- Level 1
Power Attack- Level 1
Weapon Focus (ButcheringAxe)- Level 2
Quick Draw- Level 3
Weapon Specialization- Level 4
Combat Reflexes- Level 5
Vital Strike- Level 6
Furious Focus- Level 7
Greater Weapon Focus- Level 8
Cleave- Level 9
Improved Critical- Level 10
Improved Vital Strike- Level 11
Greater Weapon Specialization- Level 12
Devastating Strike- Level 13
Great Cleave- Level 14
Weapon Trick: Cleaving Smash- Level 15
Greater Vital Strike- Level 16

This is the build I came up with. I'm a Lizardfolk (that won't change) with a Butchering Axe.


magnaangemon01 wrote:
I doubt I'll ever get Enlarged Person cast on me.

If you dip a level in Ranger, you can use a Wand of Lead Blades that will make your Butchering Axe inflict Damage as if it were 1 size bigger, and that will be multiplied by Vital Strike. I like the Freebooter Ranger Archetype which gives you and your allies +1 Attack and Damage vs. any single foe you designate.

My favorite way to get Enlarge Person is with a 1 level dip in Living Monolith. You'd have to work in a way to take Endurance and Iron Will, but that's okay: Endurance lets you sleep in Medium Armor. Iron Will is a good choice for a Fighter since Fighters have poor Will Saves.

The actual Size increase from Enlarge Person will Stack with Lead Blades, increasing your base damage to what, 6d6? Then Then Vital Strike brings that up to 12d6?

It will also give you the Toughness Feat: +1hp/die. That's nice.

Dasarak wrote:
How has no one mentioned Advanced Weapon Training!?

I really like Fighter's Tactics which lets you use Teamwork Feats as if all your allies had the Feat. Take Broken Wing Gambit, and you will get an Attack of Opportunity almost any time you are attacked.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:


I really like Fighter's Tactics which lets you use Teamwork Feats as if all your allies had the Feat. Take Broken Wing Gambit, and you will get an Attack of Opportunity almost any time you are attacked.

Your allies get an attack of opportunity when you are attacked by the creature with that bonus. At least that's how I read it.


magnaangemon01 wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:


I really like Fighter's Tactics which lets you use Teamwork Feats as if all your allies had the Feat. Take Broken Wing Gambit, and you will get an Attack of Opportunity almost any time you are attacked.
Your allies get an attack of opportunity when you are attacked by the creature with that bonus. At least that's how I read it.

Ask your GM of course, but you count as your own ally .

It has been argued that the fact that Broken Wing Gambit is a Teamwork Feat means that counting as your own ally make it "make no sense or be impossible," but the problem with that argument is that the description in the rules of Teamwork Feats don't actually say you need to have allies that have the Feat in order to use the Feat:

Teamwork Feats wrote:
In most cases, these feats require an ally who also possesses the feat to be positioned carefully on the battlefield.

This is the only clause in the official rules that I know of that comes close to invoking the makes-no-sense-or-be-impossible phrase, and it fails to do that.

It has been argued that using Broken Wing Gambit the way I'm suggesting goes against the intent of the rules, but that is not true in this case because you are using an Advanced Fighter Class ability to use a Teamwork Feat as if you and all your allies had the Feat. Per the intent of the rules, if you take Fighter's Tactics, Broken Wing Gambit, and Paired Opportunist, then you should get an Attack of Opporutnity whenever you are attacked (as per BWG), you should get an Attack of Opportunity as if you and all your allies had both Broken Wing Gambit and Paired Opportunist.


@magnaangemon01

ability scores:
Strength: 24
Dexterity: 18
Constitution: 18
Intelligence: 13
Wisdom: 10
Charisma: 15

***

So your starting strength was 19 with racials, and then +1 at lv 4, 8, and 12. That should be 22, no?

I'd also swap Charisma for Wisdom for another +2 to Will saves. It's just a +2 mod difference for skills, which shouldn't matter much at lv 16.

Feats:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency- Level 1
Power Attack- Level 1
Weapon Focus (ButcheringAxe)- Level 2
Quick Draw- Level 3
Weapon Specialization- Level 4
Combat Reflexes- Level 5
Vital Strike- Level 6
Furious Focus- Level 7
Greater Weapon Focus- Level 8
Cleave- Level 9
Improved Critical- Level 10
Improved Vital Strike- Level 11
Greater Weapon Specialization- Level 12
Devastating Strike- Level 13
Great Cleave- Level 14
Weapon Trick: Cleaving Smash- Level 15
Greater Vital Strike- Level 16

***

Quick Draw, Weapon Specialization, Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical, and Greater Weapon Specialization.

These five feats don't interact with your chosen playstyle well enough to make them worth taking. Combat Reflexes is usually great but you have 5 ft reach and no way to create AoOs. I'd also reconsider both Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Focus for better feats.

====

Since you haven't been told about available wealth, you should really secure an in-class way of getting flight (as ShroudedInLight said). I didn't see any chosen archetype, and you have apparently forgotten about your Armor Training class feature (looking at your AC), so the Mutation Warrior archetype should be a good choice for you.

lv 3 - Mutagen (+4 Str, -2 Int)
lv 7 - Wings
Lv 11 - Vestigial Arm
Lv 15 - Greater Mutagen (+6 Str, +4 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha)

Just reflavor the Vestigial Arm as your dominant arm being thick as a log, capable of holding your Butchering Axe by itself. Then you have another arm free for wielding shields or the like. Keep in mind that the Int/Cha penalty is just a penalty, so it won't affect your skill ranks.

====

And what Advanced Weapon Training options have you considered?


My starting Str score was 18 with +2 from Lizardfolk and then increased to 24. I haven't done all the details yet. This is just base stuff.

The advanced training I'm considering is Warrior Spirit (I think) that allows me to put up to +3 enhancements of my choosing onto my weapon.

Quick Draw, Weapon Specialization, Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical, and Greater Weapon Specialization.

What should I take in place of these then? As I've stated, it doesn't have to be OP. Just going with fun and consistent.


magnaangemon01 wrote:
My starting Str score was 18 with +2 from Lizardfolk and then increased to 24. I haven't done all the details yet. This is just base stuff.

For some reason I thought the character was lv 15, my bad.

magnaangemon01 wrote:

Quick Draw, Weapon Specialization, Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical, and Greater Weapon Specialization.

What should I take in place of these then? As I've stated, it doesn't have to be OP. Just going with fun and consistent.

Advanced Weapon Training x2, and the Improved Familiar feat line.

Boost to your saves, and the sheer amount of options for familiars make them very versatile. I'd recommend the Sage/Figment combo to give you a skill monkey that's part of your subconscious.

Advanced Weapon Training x2, and Hand's Autonomy, Change of Heart

Your possessed hand can get you out of a lot of trouble, force-feeding you potions when you're paralyzed, stunned or unconscious. Change of Heart is just fun to have.

Advanced Weapon Training, and the Mobile Bulwark Style feat chain

Only an option if you take the Mutation Warrior archetype, but this would make your swift actions useful and make Vital Strike a good option even when you have the opportunity to full-attack.

****

I'd also skip Greater Weapon Focus for Lunge, since 5 ft reach is really limiting.

magnaangemon01 wrote:
The advanced training I'm considering is Warrior Spirit (I think) that allows me to put up to +3 enhancements of my choosing onto my weapon.

Yup that's a great one. I'd also take take Armed Bravery and Fighter's Reflexes to buff your saves. Versatile Training for more skill ranks is also a good choice.


I can only take Advanced Weapon Training at 9 and 13 according to the Fighter progression chart.


Advanced Weapon Training, the feat. That's the feat I'm recommending you to take.

So you have the potential to get five AWT options as a lv 16 character, since you can take the feat three times in addition to your two options you get from fighter levels.


This is the new build I came up with. Don't really want to take Mutation Warrior, honestly. Level 16 Lizardfolk Fighter with a Butchering Axe. Added in Weapon and Armor Training and Saves. Still have to do Skills, but I think it'll work well.

HP: 163

Strength: 24 +7
Dexterity: 18 +4
Constitution: 18 +4
Intelligence: 10 +0
Wisdom: 15 +2
Charisma: 13 +1

Butchering Axe:
26/21/16/11
3d6(12d6 with Greater Vital Strike)+13(25 power attack)(+6 on Vital Strikes)20/x3

Scale Mail:
AC: 24 (+5 Armor, +4 Max Dex, +1 Natural Armor, +4 Dodge Bonus)(17 while Great Cleaving)
Flat Footed: 20
Touch: 13

Bravery: +4

Saves:
Fort: 14
Ref: 12
Will: 11

Exotic Weapon Proficiency- Level 1
Power Attack- Level 1
Furious Focus- Level 2
Combat Expertise- Level 3
Cleave- Level 4
Combat Reflexes- Level 5
Vital Strike- Level 6
Cornugon Smash- Level 7
Lunge- Level 8
Advanced Weapon Training: Warrior's Spirit- Level 9
Advanced Weapon Training Feat: Fighter's Reflexes- Level 10
Improved Vital Strike- Level 11
Devastating Strike- Level 12
Advanced Weapon Training: Armed Bravery- Level 13
Great Cleave- Level 14
Weapon Trick: Cleaving Smash- Level 15
Greater Vital Strike- Level 16


magnaangemon01 wrote:
Added in Weapon and Armor Training and Saves. Still have to do Skills, but I think it'll work well.

Are you sure you've applied all the Armor Training bonuses? Because it increases at every 4th level after 3.

If you take the Armor Specialization as your 15th level Advanced Armor Training, and let the other three increases be, you'd improve the Max Dex of any armor you wear by three.
So if you wore a Mithral Full Plate you'd have an armor bonus of 13, a Max Dex of 6, and an Armor Check Penalty of 0. And you'd not reduce your speed at all.


Wonderstell wrote:
magnaangemon01 wrote:
Added in Weapon and Armor Training and Saves. Still have to do Skills, but I think it'll work well.

Are you sure you've applied all the Armor Training bonuses? Because it increases at every 4th level after 3.

If you take the Armor Specialization as your 15th level Advanced Armor Training, and let the other three increases be, you'd improve the Max Dex of any armor you wear by three.
So if you wore a Mithral Full Plate you'd have an armor bonus of 13, a Max Dex of 6, and an Armor Check Penalty of 0. And you'd not reduce your speed at all.

The fighter class I'm reading says maximum of +4 max dex. That's how I read it on d20pfsrd.

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