extreme_tactician's page

Thanks guys. I read the thread at the link posted by TriOmegaZero and I guess that the word of a lead designer clarifies any doubts. By the way, I used the Pathfinder approach to sneak and DR even with 3.5: now I see that was just a house rule, but it just makes more sense.

So here is my question. If I hit with a sneak attack and inflict for example 5 damages + 30 of sneak attack to an enemy with damage reduction 10/-, how much damage do I inflict? The two scenarios I can think of are:
1. 30 = 0 (because the 5 damages are absorbed by DR) + 30 (by sneak attack)
2. 25 = 5 + 30 -10 (normal damage + sneak attack minus damage reduction)

And another hypothesis would be that since 5 is not enough to overcome the DR, I do not inflict any damage at all.

Thanks for your help

To which I ask: Why not just play a fighter?

Oh well, without going into the details I am running an experimental project with a bunch of my dearest friends and long-time RPG buddies. We have a small party of three: fighter, wizard, and cleric. Since my friends wanted to play the other roles the most, I volunteered to cover the divine spellcaster spot, but I am determined not to give up damage dealing capabilities.

Just a suggestion, but the old Golarion book had this:

Holy Warrior (Ex): A cleric with this ability is proficient with her deity’s favored weapon. In addition, her base attack bonus as a cleric equals her cleric level, and her cleric Hit Die becomes a d10.

Class Abilities: Some clerics think of themselves more as holy warriors than proselytizers or shepherds. For these clerics, the ability to fight trumps all other concerns. Taking the above ability requires a cleric to give up both of her domains, including her domain powers.

I never saw one in play, and maybe you're not interested, but it sounds like something to consider. Maybe talk to your GM and see if it's possible. It was removed in the current version, but I don't know why. Seems like a fair trade for a war cleric.

Yeah, I am already discussing with my GM about it, but I am not sure it will be allow as we will not play in PF campaign setting. Good call!

I'm not sure what this means, could you clarify?

Silence and Hold Person are just not effective. They have ST and SR and when enemies become truly powerful you strike them down just with melee or heavy spellcasting damage (I do not know PF, but I was used to cast Polar Ray and Sonic Orb with metamagic feats applied, as they do not require SR...). If I cannot create a character that somehow does one of this two things, I just don't have fun. As I was saying I probably played too much, and now my view is quite narrow minded.

And when I can't (or shouldn't) be in the thick of things, I have my heals, channels, and spells. Yes, a fighter will be a better melee combatant than me... but until that fighter can 5 foot step back and lay down a hold person for the rogue to coup-de-grace, I'm not concerned about it. Until the fighter can hit a critically wounded ally with a clutch 3d8+5 Cure Serious Wounds and take no opportunity attacks getting there with Grace, I'm ok with the power balance. Until the fighter can cast Silence on himself to completely shut down a BBEG caster, I'm completely happy with my role in the party.

These are all good considerations and I appreciate them. Let's say that I probably played d20 Fantasy RPG too much and I cannot enjoy anymore some aspects of the game like the ones you mentioned.

Anyway, if anybody figures out other ways to increase my attack roll bonus, I will be happy to hear those.

due to their abilities to buff themselves.

Well, let me say that with the PF Divine Power, my "poor" cleric is short of a +6 strength bonus (not that easy to get through magic items at level 7) and the bonus from Divine Favor (which does not stack). If you add that casting spells requires time, I do not really know how a cleric can ever be superior to a Fighter (which again, gets one feat per level and other nice skills related to armor/weapon usage). Basically the cleric lost power without any replacement, and all the melee characters where enhanced.

But as you said, you like it and it is fine, while I simply don't :D

After this discussion at least I am sure I did not miss any major Pathfinder option to enhance my melee cleric.

Thanks

If you want full BAB equivalence, then paly a full BAB class. But then you'll have other trade-offs, like not being able to cast "miracle" later in the game...

I guess you are right, but please be sympathetic: coming to Pathfinder from 3.5E it is shocking. I am still trying to understand what are the melee capabilities and limits for cleric/druid/etc. in Pathfinder, since fighter and barbarian seem really strong in comparison (especially the fighter which gets a feat every level...).

Thanks Sean, that was helpful, and yes, I am familiar with the "stacking" concept, which is why I was very disappointed in seeing Divine Favor and Divine Power both providing luck bonus, because the second seems to me just a stronger version of the first, and not an option for some fancy "combo".

Also keep in mind that until you are at really high levels your BAB difference with someone who is full BAB is not real significant.

I am not a master of statistics, but I am not sure I agree on this point. In my previous experience with the d20 system, no caster could match a melee character without a significant boost via spells, and here in Pathfinder there are not really a lot of appealing options (at least in my opinion).

Anyway, in the last couple of hours I put together what I think is a decent battle cleric build, which I am quite confident will keep me somehow effective in melee combat as we advance in level. Hopefully I am right about it...

Thanks again

First of all, I tried to look for this information by myself both in the rulebooks, SRD, and forum threads, but I was not very successful or at least non quite satisfied by the results.
So my question is, other than powerful equipment, casting Divine Favor/Power (which basically makes you equal to a fighter of equal level, but without the feats...) or Righteous Might, what other Spells, Domain Powers or feats boost, somehow, your melee attack bonus?
My concern is that without a solid melee attack bonus I cannot get the most out of Channel Smite or Domain Powers that increase my melee damage.

I appreciate your help.

Gary Teter wrote:

[removed "@ Paizo Staff" from thread title]

I think I am going to list this just to show it to the next person that calls out Paizo to answer a question.

I did not think it was such a big deal. I would undo my actions if I could. I interacted directly with the staff for other RPGs in the past and I was just trying to do the same here. Again, apologies. Are we cool now?

You are entirely unlikely to get a developer response here, and mort is exactly correct. The rule of thumb is - if a feat/spell/ability alters any previous feat/spell/ability, it only alters it in the ways which are explicit in the text of the feat/spell/ability, and any additional changes you may infer because of similarities to other feats/spells/abilities are incorrect.

Thank you. The rule of thumb makes sense, and now I feel like this feat is less useful than I thought.

Seriously, calling out developers or staff is a bad idea. Just hit the FAQ button at the top right of your post.

Thank you. I am going to do that.

First of all, calling out developers or staff is a sure way to get ignored by the way. The ability to spontaneously cast cure or inflict is tied, but a separate class ability. You do not gain the ability to spontaneously cast inflict spell.

Well I am new of this forum, but since in the FAQ they are explicit about non sending direct messages to the staff I did not know how else getting an official feedback from Paizo.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Well I appreciate your feedback, but if possible I would still like the game developers to confirm.
My doubt rises because under "Spontaneous Casting" I read "This choice
also determines whether the cleric channels positive or negative energy (see Channel Energy)." so I thought that the feat might somehow affect even Spontaneous Casting.

@Paizo Staff

I have seen that the penalty you take for using Power Attack increases with the Base Attack Bonus. My question is, does having a -3 penalty (i.e. BAB=8) mean that I can take up to a -3 malus on attack rolls, or I am forced to take the entire -3 penalty each time I am using Power Attack?

Thanks

@Paizo Staff, but anybody is welcome to give her opinion.

Here is my question. Suppose I am playing a cleric, channeling positive energy, and I select Versatile Channeler as a feat. Now I can channel negative energy as well, as a cleric of level = actual level -2. Does it mean that now I can also spontaneously cast "inflict wound" spells as a cleric of level = actual level -2? Since spontaneous casting is based on channeling energy, I thought that my idea makes at least some sense.

Thanks