eleclipse's page

So the spell says:

"Each creature in the beam is blinded and takes 4d6 points of damage. Any creatures to which sunlight is harmful or unnatural take double damage. A successful Reflex save negates the blindness and reduces the damage by half.

An undead creature caught within the beam takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d6), or half damage if a Reflex save is successful. In addition, the beam results in the destruction of any undead creature specifically harmed by bright light if it fails its save."

The question is, can an undead be blinded by this or not?

It's not clear if the second part is saying "if the subject is udead don't consider the above and do this" or "if he's an undead to the first part and ALSO the second one"

Thanks in advance for any help

I was wondering, does:

Unstoppable Shot (Ex)

You can use a ranged or thrown weapon to make a single powerful shot that shoots through all creatures in a line. As a standard action, make a single ranged attack roll and resolve the attack against all targets in a straight line up to the maximum range of your weapon, stopping at any barrier the attack couldn't penetrate. Roll damage once and apply that damage to each creature hit by the attack. Before making the attack roll, you can expend one use of mythic power to bend the path of the attack up to two times as it strikes targets or objects. Each deflection can alter the line of the attack up to 90 degrees, allowing you to shoot around corners or cover.

Stack with vital strike?

I would say no since it seem that each of them require to devote that one strike to something specific, but i'm not 100% sure so here i'm.

Thank in advance for any help.

So i have a big problem with the campaign i'm playing.

First a few data:

We are all good outsiderds, in a faerun-like setting, battling against a powerful evil.

The gm really stressed that we must all be good and now he decided that he'll give experience based only of "interpretation".

______________

My problem is that:

1 - 1'm the rougue of the party (alchemist trap breaker), so i kinda have to be sneaky and smart, this is a problem because it seem that being sneaky and smart is not a thing a "good guy" will do (but they specifically requiest a guy who could disarm traps and so on). This arrived to the point that, after a loooooog combat while the main church of our deity was besieged (and we couldn't let it fall), the master "advised" me to not play with an "hit and hide" style since this led the other melee pc to take90% of the damage (being the only one visible) and this wasn't "good" (while it permited me to do a lot more and probably helped a lot saving the church).

2 - in my opion my pc is good, but a "batman-like-good" not a "superman-like-good", it's a calculator, cold-minded and try to minimaze the global damage by looking at the bigger picture, often he's even too cold-minded but that's part of the pc character. But again it seem that this is not good and that a good guy should be "more human" and by more human i mean that he should be the stereotyped good but dumb good guy.

So what can i do with the personality of this guy to be more "good" by this standard but not totally and utterly boring?

Also, i know that the best thing is "talk to your dm", but belive me, we talked A LOT and we simply can't seem to agree on anyting about this subject.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Thanks to all for the advices! the tumor familiar and some bombs you described seem really good!

@Gregory Connolly: Greater Alchemical Simulacrum seem nice but at this level i fear that a simulacrum can be killed really fast, so i don't know.

@laarddrym: while i agree with you, take into account that the 6 attack were natural attack (thanks to a combination of race and magical items) so they were all full bab, of course i needed the flanking but with the monk there was no real problem. Plus at that level of mythic i could become invisible really really easily.

Imo my dm wanted to play a campaign with high power and high level without the ability to handle them, so since it's that way i'll better have fun as a support! :D

So here's the situation:

14 lvl - 4 mhytic lvl

the rest of the group is: a monk, a mage, a paladin (who can mostly heal and deal little damage due to some archetype), a cleric (the real healer).

So i'm going to cover for the "rogue" side with and alchemist with the trap breaker archetype.

The problem is that more than an half of the group is not really skilled, combat-wise. The mage, as incredibile as it may seem, is the weakest member of the group and it's not even a decent god; the paladin just heal and do little damage, the monk is a good player but don't deal great amount of damage (very useful anyway), the cleric is a very good player that focus on keeping such party alive, do some damage and utility spell.

I was a rogue but the dm talked me into changing class since i was dealing too much damage compared to the others (basically 6 natural attack +7d6 sneak attack each, i consider myself a decent "optmizer" and a good player combat-wise).

So i decided to do the alchemist ( not vivisectionist, i can't of course) since it is at least more versatile with his spell list.

Since i'm basically forced to to a moderate damage i decided to be at least the "mcguyver" of the group and be a support at the best of my ability.

I'm not really experienced with support char, so here i'm asking for any advice (feat, power, anything) that could help in this.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Since i'm gonna have an alchemist in the campaign i was wondering how can i handle the cost and rarity of the material component cost (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume) that most polymorph spell require.

Is it something that can be "fixed" with eschew material ?

Or the more powerful a monster is the more rare are is pieces?

So basically how do you deal with this with your local alchemist/polymorpher?

Thanks in advance for any help

So one of my player is going to play an alchemist, beastmorph and vivisectionist.

I have some questions which i can't seem to find the answer for:

Burrow: Since he's gonna have burrow (and tremorsense) with beastmorph how combat work in this case?

suppose he put himself just under an enemy can he attack it without being attacked?

If a wizard cast an area dispel can the mutagen be dispelled (i understand not, but checking just in case) ?

Any combat rules for monster tiwh burrow?

He's gonna take the improved familiar for the tumor familiar and have the dweomercat cub.

Now let's suppose he let his familiar drink an extrct with beash shape 3 or some other polymorph spell, does the pet still retain the Dweomer Leap plus all the new natural attack and so on? (basically becoming a caster-killer) ?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Perfect thanks!

So a player of mine want to do a Vivisectionist, but he started to argue with another player that say that when the archetype says:

"The following discoveries complement the vivisectionist archetype:..."

you can take only the discovery in that list, since i always took it like "these are the best / more role-wise choiche for che archetype, but are not mandatory" i was quite confused, it seem strange to me but maybe i got it all wrong?

So the question is, in this case and similar one, is the list of discoveries limited to the one listed in the archetype description or not?

Thanks in advance for the help.

So the party healer died and his next pg won't be a healer.

One player tought about creating a use-activated ring that basically grand unlimited cure light wounds and will only cost 2000.

My question is, does it cost 2000? or i have to multiply the price by 4 since the duration is even less than 1 round (is istantaneus).

As a side question if someone know some item that i can suggest to the group now that they are without a healer it would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help

Thanks!

So let's suppose there's a monster with a very hight range of attack, he go full attack at a rogue, the rogue use mirror dodge (mythic) on the first attack and move himself 30feet away (still in the range of the monster).

At this point can the monster redirect the remaining attacks of the full attack on the rogue, into the different square, or will they all miss since it "aimed" at the original position?

Thanks in advance for any help!

A little update since i talked to players and solved the issue.

After talking to them about my concerns ans showing them claxon links they all thinked that the better course of action was to use the alexandrian rule (which they liked a lot) with a little (not much) of bonus/malus given by the dm if the interpretation of the character is particulary good/bad.

So everyone is happy and che campaign is going on without problems.

Thanks again to those who understood what the problem was and helped me with advices, in particular to claxon for the links and to kolokotroni who gave a me totally different point of view on the problem, that helped a lot.

Nice!

This remind me a lot the cranium rats from planescape, if you want to take inspirations they are a type or psionic rats that get more clever and even get to cast spell the more rats are into the "neural network".

If you want rules that do that, perhaps you'd be better off with a board of video game instead.

You know, i was going to reply to your post in some serious way, then i read this childish comment and decided to follow George Carlin advice and not argue with you.

Have a good day.

@Wraithstrike:

Basically i'm worried that diplomacy, as it is, is often better than mind control.

It doesn't take into consideration the level of the png, his motive, there's no save or way to avoid it.

By rules the dc is based on the attitude and the charisma bonus(which i think is incredibly stupid since it don't take into consideration the level of the "opponent", plus i really fail to see how charisma help you in this kind of situation, wisdom seem way more appropiate).

So this player could easily befriend (with no rational argoument at all but that's not the main problem), say, a lvl 20 wizard who lived 1000 years; an helpful lvl 20 wizard will " Once a creature’s attitude has shifted to helpful, the creature gives in to most requests without a check, unless the request is against its nature or puts it in serious peril."

And you can ask *a lot* of things to such a powerfull character without him being in serious peril or going against his nature. This in just one minute. Plus the whole "request diplomacy modifier" is just ridiculus since of course first you'll bring him to friendly and then do the requests.

This is prone to just too much exploit.

am i to never let them met powerful png in order to avoid this? am i to avoid let them met with anyone important?

Is, say, a prime minister with 6 lvl on "nobleman" with a +1 cha bonus such an idiot that all that it takes for him to change his mind (ok for some *hours*) is to talk for 1 minute to *any* bard of the realm? By rules yes.

Let's assume he's indifferent (or even unfriendly) a simple lvl 1 bard who never left the worst tavern in the city could make him friendly and them have granted a great deal of request with some (not to much) luck, does this make any sense?

Another one of my biggest worry is that this will make everyone loke like a dumb fool.

And as a side worry i can't bring myself to like it when someone try to convice another one with some of the most stupid reason in the world, i'm not asking the players to be actor but to at least make some sense in their argoument.

Some people in the thread suggested that "when someone is helpful it doesn't mean that ... " "based on his nature they will do this..." and so forth but these are all things added by the dm based on common sense, not included in the rules.

Sure the rule talk about gm discretion in some point but that's just like saying "hey do what you want if needed",/sarcasm on thank you, i know i could do it anyway. sarcasm off/

All of this to say:

I WANT the players to be able to comeup with different and interesting solutions trought social skill, i LOVE when someone make a great use of such skills to deal with a problem in a way i hadn't expected. But i don't want it to be an "i win" button in every conversation (like it is by rules with almost everyone who isn't trying to kill them in that specific second or have a monstrous charisma) and i don't like when this "i win" button is pressed while arguing with the worst argoument ever conceived by the human mind

Ok, first of all thanks to all for the feedback! What i really love of this forum is that i can get a lot of valid opinion, with some i agree some i don't but they always make me think from different angles which is great.

@Claxon: Thank you so much for these links, i really loved them and helped me a lot.

To answer some questions:

@Kolokotroni: I see your point, but i don't agree, while i can have an "ignorant about swordplay" player with an hight bab without ruining the game mood (it's quite easy to describe the scene where he kill or battle anyway for me, and for him) i have much more difficult in letting this on someone who can't talk, why? Because *it will* ruin the mood.

Let's go with and example, this actually happened and this player talk this way on regular basis, most of all he's not joking, he seriuosly belive in his argoument:

Player A, with a *very* hight bonus on diplomacy (not the player i'm refering to in this thread), the group encounter an important (caster) npc, they need something from him and they are deciding if stealing it, killing him and take it, or talk him into giving it.

This player, a bard, go to talk to this npc and he say something like this: "you should give us that item because i think you'll lose it, if you give it to me it'll be safe since i'll go to another plane, here take 10 gold (they were at lvl 18 at that was a powerful caster, he knew this)" then rolled a natural 20...

So what should i do know? Le the powerfull mage behave like a total idiot since he rolled a 20 and have a hight bonus? By rules yes. Needless to say the other players looked at me like "we don't think you should let it do it".

At the end of the day combat skill change very little the role aspect of the game and the mood, social skill are a totally different matter.

For the lie thing and going trought the rules with the group you are totally right, i intend to do that but first i wanted to decide what to do myself; i know that the way i described the skill effect in the first post is quite simplistic, it's a side effect of my not-so-good english skill so i try to explain myself in the most simple way to avoid being misunderstood.

@Anzyr, @Brolthemighty and basically anyone suggesting that i want a social campaign but i don't want the player to invest in social skills and so on:

1.As the great links claxon provided explain, diplomacy is just too bad as it is and i simply can't have (even more in a social campaign) a character with that bonus at that level and at the same time use the rules as they are, for obvious reasion; i have some solutions in mind but since the forum is full of great dm i also wanted to hear what they would do since i want said player, and all players, to have fun. I really don't get how this can be see as "you want to punish your player for being a social character in a social campaign".

2. The last campaign that finished some times ago started from lvl 6 and lasted till lvl 18 (2 years) the previous one was on 3.5 and they went up to 25 and i can keep going, so yeah, i don't really have a problem with even more power, hell the last campaign they even had 35 rp for a custom devil race since the setting was hell.

So not being familiar with the ruleset, or confident as a dm and so on is not really the issue here (while of course one can alwasy learn something new, that's why i'm here).

So i've a started a new campaign, the character are lvl 7 with 2 mythic lvl 20point buy, it'll be a urban campaign with a lot ot talking.

One of said character is a telepath psion. Thanks to some psion stuff he have a +10 bonus on diplomacy, bluff and sense motive, said buff sum up with magical object and pretty much everything.

So, at 7 lvl without skill focus or similar feats, he have a +27 on this skills...

Now of course i can't have him win every discussion by default (honestly most of the time i take stat and skill only marginally in consideration, like a 30-40%. The rest is what the say and the context).

The problem his that i think he expect to detect 99% of the lies, to convince to do everything 99% of the people and so forth; of course i can't have that, hell i won't permit it even if he had a +90 bonus.

So the qestion is, how do i deal with this guy without ruining every talking situation because he have a bazilion bonus on diplomacy and at the same thime without make him feel like i'm ignoring the ability of his character?

Thanks in advance for any help.

ps: I already tell him that these score seem too hight for this level be he protested saying that he made a social character so they are hight.

@Anguish Good point, i like it thank you!

@Gator yeah but i think is also kind of superfluous, at the end of the day everyone have a magic aura since every adventurer wear magic item and i don't really feel the need for arcane / divine caster to have particularly strong aura.

As for the detect magic thing and invisibility i always house ruled that it don't work , since it's plain stupid to make it work that way, in my opinion at least.

Perfect thanks.

I wonder why psion do have an aura and caster don't.

So a member of my group, who's a psion, don't agree that psion do have and aura based on their level, and that such aura is visible to people using Detect Psionics and that the arcane casters don't have this.

Is there some sort of errata about it or some peculiar reason for the difference?

Thanks in advance for the help.

thanks for the advice!

I think i'll go on something like "you are considered 3 caster level below when choosing the spell" or similar.

The new campaign i'm starting will use mythic manuals, i got a few complaints from a fighter regarding the ability Wild Arcana of the archmage:

"As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one arcane spell without expending a prepared spell or spell slot. The spell must be on one of your arcane class spell lists and must be of a level that you can cast with that arcane spellcasting class.

You don't need to have the spell prepared, nor does it need to be on your list of spells known. When casting a spell in this way, you treat your caster level as 2 levels higher for the purpose of any effect dependent on level. You can apply any metamagic feats you know to this spell, but its total adjusted level can't be greater than that of the highest-level arcane spell you can cast from that spellcasting class."

Basically he say that it's too powerfull and that it's unjust. I must admit that it seem too much, expecially if i take into consideration what non-caster class have.

He proposed an house rules that make the caster use 1 point for spells from 1 to 3 level, 2 point from 4 to 6 and 3 point from 7 to 9.

This don't seem bad and i'm thinking about it, what do you guys think?

Thanks in adavance for any advice.

Thanks to all for the advices!

The psion would fit well in the campaign so that's not a problem.

Learning a whole new set of rules is not a big problem too.

I totally agree that, would i allow it, magic-psionic transparency is a must.

At this point i think i'll have at least a read of the basic of these conversion and see how it goes.

Thanks again to all!

Hello to all,

After the ending of my last campaign i'm working on a new one, a player of mine asked me if he can do the psion using the manual of dreamscarred press.

Personally i had, as a master, a really bad experince with psion, and with this particular player, in a 3.5 campaign.

It was just too powerfull, minimizing, maximizing, stopping time again and again and so on, the major problem aside is sheer power was that it make the majority of the party feel inferior, a lot (and they aren't noob at building characters).

So the question is, does these pathfinder manuals fit well in the system without replacing the standard casting class and without unbalance?

Also, in the case i decide to let him, are there some mythic manual for psion?

Thanks in advance for the help.

So i'm wondering does the Upgradable ability of a legendary item (mhytic rules) apply even in the istance of adding a different ability to the item?

Let's say adding a "detect magic" on command to a amulet of mighty fist +3?

(if it work i will be like this i guess: 0,5 (0lvl spell)* 1 (caster lvl) *2000 *2(1/m spell) = 2000 * 1,5 (different ability) = 3000 (difference in cost -> 1500 gold)

Thanks in advance for any help.

A little gravedig since i'm also interested in this.

Does this ability include a classical perception check?

It's true that is say any, i'm wondering anyway if the purpose was to make this work against method such as see invisibility and similar things, after all if it worked even on perception and similar thing what will be the purpose of the trickster ability "supreme stealth"; which need to be taken several time to have an effect worse that this single ability?

Also is not needed a 20 alchemy to have invisibility always on, you could just create with 24.000 gold a ring of constant invisibility (2 lvl spell X 3 lvl caster X 2000 X2 (1/m lvl spell) = 24.000)

(anyway as far as i know the classica ring of invisibility work this way, but suppose not you could just create it anew like in the above way).

The group i'm dming arrived at the final phase of the campaign.

And i was wondering if it was a good idea or not to completly let go my "gm's hands" frome their chance or success, or at least survival and let the campaign to "go alone" and maybe end with tpk and the failure of the whole campaign.

Why i'm wondering this?

First of all i got the feeling that there isn't as much "sense of danger" that should be. They are going to have to attack a fortress in heaven; and nobody (but one) is asking questions, gathering info or making planes of attack/action.

Second while i almost never "guide" the party i always take some minor to major precaution to don't let at least the party die as a whole; but i'm starting to wonder if this is right since if the party as a whole behave like ad idiot maybe is right to let i die.

But then maybe a failure of a whole campaign, that lasted more that a year, is not the best...

So how do you handle this and, more in general, the sense of peril and death in your games?

Thanks in advice for any help :)

So my group of evil characters (lvl 15) want to go to the celestial planes and they are gonna use nondetection in order to hide themself.

I was wondering, while nondetection block the detection of the alignment on the creature what about the lingering aura that the creature left?

I would say no by logic, since the "leftover" are not shielded by the magic, but then the spell will be quite useless if any paladin can't see you are evil but can see a track of evil aura just behind you everywhere you move, so i'm a little confused and here i'm asking for advice :)

Thanks in advance for any help.

Since the magic item creation rules don't state that it must be a specific object for a specific slot just have the same item for a different slot.

Thank you very much!

Thanks to all for the asnwer, it's really clear now!

@slingerbult: The link don't work :(

I'm trying to have a better understanding of the stealth rules.

Let's suppose a rogue, with blur casted on him (so with concealment), is in a corridor that end in a fork, at the left of the fork there is another small corridor, at the end of which there is a man.

Having concealment "always on" can the rogue stealh himself before being watched by the man and go trought the corridor with the man without being noticed (perception aside)?

Will your answer apply even to a ranger with camouflage?

Thanks in advice for any help!

I personally improvise a lot, also when the party decide to go into a dungeon or just have to.

I found out that reading a lot, "wasting" time on wikipedia or some old encyclopedia help a lot.

For example some time ago i read a whole article about pyramid architecture and it helped me a lot even in the creation of different kind of dungeon. Other time i just go with what make sense to me and will provide a challenge to the party.

When i need help i use some instrument like:

This dungeon generator

Advice in site like this

Thanks to all for the advices!

@Mike Tuholski: That's nice but it only apply to two of the attacks

@Cult of Vorg: feral combat traiining is nice but require lot of feats for a rogue.

An agile AoMF is a great idea! I'll never permanence anything, i'm too scared! :D

@Overcast: I asked to the dm and i qualify as a catfolk so i guess i can without having less attacks.

@Redchigh: Unluckly they are not all primary, wings are secondary and i thought that two attack are worth the talent.

Scout rogue seem very nice! I'm not completly sure only because most of my ca is from dex and i'll lose uncanny dodge.

@King of Vrock: I saw and that's great! :)

So you decided to play an octopus that lost an arm (fluff ya know)?:P

Aahah, nope it's humanoid tiger with wings (which we are forced to have since we are celestial).

Claw hands and legs (4), bite (1) wings (2) = 7

Custom race 7 natural attacks?-_-

It's an odd campaign and the master specifically told to "do our worst" if we want to survive :D

Ok thanks!

So i'm going to do a rogue that use only natural attacks, it will be in a peculiar campagin with a custom race starting at lvl 12 with 7 natural attack.

I soon found out that improving natural attacks is way more difficoult tha weapon, till now i found:

Amulet of mighty fist (very costy)

And this is pretty much the only worthy magic item i found.

For the talents:

multiattack
weapon finesse (since i'm a rogue)

And?

Of course i'll other feat and magic item but not for the attack, and i can't find anything else worth the trouble.

Thanks in advice for any help.

Maybe this is a stupid question, i'm in the middle of creating a very strange characther and sometime i'm confused so be patient with me.

Feral combat training:

Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

Does this mean that i can apply the effect of these feats even if i don't have them or that i now just qualify for them?

Thanks in advice for any help!

Thanks to all for the advice:

@Wind Chime: the ninja stay invisibile for just a few rounds, a few times, is not really a worth ability as a scount and while blur is a great idea is 1/m lvl (probably casted from a wand) so is not that great either.

The sap master is something i really really really really really dislike, and even if it would some how fit i'm not sure i want to use it.

@blackbloodtroll and Mysterious Stranger: thanks! i'll have to give a look to the inquisitor which is a class i basically don't know.

@SirGeshko: basically a magus and an alchemist could be doable but the master specifically told us that is better to have a pg that still do something in no-magic zone or in situation with magic attack being useless (and knowing him this is = dungeon full of iron golem). The monk, i will be onest,even if concetpually nice seem to me just as a way to deal (less) damage in a different way, and notthing more. But i'll admit that i did't look to well and the pathfinder monk and maybe is just an old 3.5 prejudice.

@Big Lemon: yep! the problem is the class of this someone

So i have to create a pg for a strange campaign, this are the rules:

All must be LG
Genarally no arcane caster but bards
No summoner
No "evil" class (no thief using poison for example, i already argued that poison itself isn't evil but it didn't work well)

The pg will be a custom created celestial race (25 RP plus pretty much every celestial and diplomatic thing in the ARG for free).

EDIT: We'll start at lvl 12

The party is composed of:

A paladin archer
A buffer cleric
A paladin / healer
A melee paladin
A melee ranger focused on fighting (yeah i know)
A bard

:V

I don't know what to do, logic would dictate rogue/ninja but since i know the dm we'll be half the campaign in looooong dungeons (with no cover ever for stealth); so i can just pick any class and put point in disable device and perception and i'm good (plus i can have some skill as class skill for free) so techically i can do another paladin archer that disable device. Of course the ninja can go invisible but the dungeon will be very long and with a pg that can go invisible i'm 100% sure that most of the time enemies will see invisible.

Normally i would something arcane but i can't. I'm really out of idea.

Thanks in advice for any help.

In the general magic item descriptions, both the PFRPG book and the Ultimate Equipment have it (though I want to say the UE one is a little more verbose). It's one of those questions that circulates the forums every so often.

Thank you very much!

So the ring of foe focus state:

"This ring of jagged steel gives the impression that it was salvaged from a suit of armor and then crudely bent into a circle.

The wearer of the ring can, at will, designate any one opponent she can see as a particularly dangerous foe. She gains a +2 bonus to her AC and saving throws against attacks made by that opponent until she designates a new enemy."

what does at will means? as a fre action? immediate action? every time i want? (so one enemy attack me, ok is him, another now is him and so on?)

Thanks in advice for any help.

First of all thank you again for the opinions! It's alway helpfull to have more point of view as possibile in case like this.

To respond to some argument that were raised:

The player said they "didn't feel like it," yes, but we don't know whether that was the honest truth or not. If I were sitting down in front of 9 of my friends and they Spanish Inquisition'd me demanding why I didn't do something,

Nobody expect the spanish inquisition!!!

Joke aside there wasn't any spanish inquisition and any attitude like that, ever, he just asked to her and me and another where present in another corner ot the room eating a pie.

1) "Didn't feel like" it is the accurate response, in italian was "non ho voglia" if any italian want to know

2) The gm is not awkard with girls, or at least i hope so for his girfriend

3) She don't have any learning disability at all (and i don't want to even start arguing on the fact that i think that 80% of the time i hear this is just poor teaching or other problem exused as a "illness"). She read TONS of book and she's actualy styding (tough not now since it's summer) to be a lawyer (and man, ironically the italian legislation is hardcore).

4) The new game is starting since the last campaign ended and was planned long before she joined us, everyone is exited about this.

5) She's not being discriminated as a girl, on the contraty i think that part of the problem is that the gm and the other, worried about scaring a new player build up some steam untill it was too much.

Moar data (sorry i dind't tough that they would be usefull if else i would have included them before):

- We are actually running two campaign (and some cthulhu one-shot run sometimes) and she play in both, in the second game i'm the master and luckly i'm more permissive (even tough i was also thinking of how to resolve the problem, i was thinking of organizig a "tutorial day" for her and the other new guy ) so if this thing go on she still get to play with me.

- I assure you that the gm is no jerk, it's just pissed of something he see (not without any reason at all) a lack of respect for his work. Not mature enough in this particular case maybe that i can concede.

Also when we where discussing if letting other people in (you know, 8 is a big number) he was the most supporting to let her play and i was the skeptical (you can also find a thread here were i ask advice to how to handle big group).

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Anyway i've talked to the dm, and will do again, now he "just" want to calmly tell her that the next game will be expecilly fast-paced and ruthless and that will need all the player to at least have the basic comprehension of the rule and pg to play. That if she won't we'll take a day or two of simulating combat and other thing to teach her, and of course we will give her advice. But that nobody will do the work for her (you know, "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" ). And then leave this up to this decision.

Nope. Also i don't think that she like in that way anyone in the group (and just to be clear nobody in the group is interested in her in that way)

A couple of months, maybe 3.

Thanks to all for the advices :)

To give some more info of the problem in the dm (and some players)perspective is that being in a big group ( 8 ) if one don't know the rule well combat tend to be toooo long, and everything else too. To be completly honest i think that the problem of her being new is more heavy due to the fact that we are A LOT.

The core group (me and other 5) is composed of "veteran" and some of them are easily bored with a game that suit the need of someone starting .

And the major problem is that in the last campaign she left a poor inpression on the dm in a couple of occasion:

1-The first time when se entered the gm asked to talk to her about the char and what she wanted to do since we were half-campaign, we were going to met 7 days later. She didn't talk to him and never answered and seven day later at the game she said she didn't "feel like it" (and the master had to improvise).

2-The second time she asked a guy if he can (again) make the upgrade of her pg. The gm said that it was better for her to start doing them for herself (of course with advice) or else she will never learn and the answer was again that she dind't want to do it ...

So the problem is that it seem to be some sort of resistance in learning the basic rule or in putting some effort in the mechanical creation of the pg.

And honestly i don't understand why since she seem to enjoy herself and have fun everytime we play, and rules aside she's a nice player with good ideas and a very nice person to be with.

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@Chengar Qordath: she's someway inbetween the two types

@sgtrocknroll: Sorry, Italy :P

So i'm in the middle of something unsual for our group and i would like some advice/opionion.

Our group of 8 people is going to start a new campaign, is gonna be a very peculiar campaign since the master is going to make us do some celestial with the mission to save the world or something.

It's peculiar because it would be a custom race with high rp (about 60-70), high lvl, high point buy and, according to the master, requiring a very high comprehension of the rules to survive.

And he decided that the latest addition to our group, a nice girl who's a good player but never had the will to learn the rule well and it's just at the begining (we basically had to force her at least to upgrade her char in the last campaign since she alway asked us to do it for her :V), can't play this campaign.

Now on one side i can understand his point of view, on the other is never nice to say to someone "you can't play with us" and i'm wondering if we are giving to much importance to the rules or what.

Thanks in advance for any opinion and advice :)

Thanks for the answer!

I'm not (yet) interested in the adventure, i'm actually running an evil campaign and i wanted the party to start running a dungeon and i'm looking for a system that could work "stand alone" so i was wondering if all the "dungeon system" was in this book or it evolved in the other with the increase of level of the AP

I was worried about also becouse my party is already 12 lvl