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Dastis wrote:
Pure RAW leads to stupid things. RAI leads to less stupid things. RAI with houserules leads to new stupid things. I go for RAI with minimal houserules simply because that's what seems to work best.

Oh, that metaphor of organized religion

Imagine a Ranger with a Scroll of Plant Shape that polymorphs into this :
So much power.

666bender gave you a really good advice.
You can also consider going Divine Paragon of Sarenrae. At level 5 you will get 3 cure light wounds or Fireball 1x a day as a supernatural spell like ability.

Looks fine. It's not an animal companion with pounce, 3 attacks and crazy strength

Isonaroc wrote:
I have no idea where they fall in the hierarchy, but Paladins can be absolute monsters with a bow.

Late game, Shelyn Paladins and Insinuator Antipaladins are among the strongest. Saddle Surge, High Charisma... Smite evil... Ouch. Unsanctioned Knowledge to get Divine Power from Inquisitors.

But for level 10 with regular stats, I think other classes are way better.

VMC Cavalier, Order of the Hammer.
Being a Ninja with the Master Trick + Monk Robe

I agree with what you say but look at the title : Best Archer Class. This is where you are right now. I have to go to level 20.

Comparing classes by going to level 20 is absolutely necessary if you want to rank them.
Casting Divine Power and Channel Vigor is not crazy for a Warpriest.

The URL provided http://donovanpoe.net/pathfinder/dpr.html]http://donovanpoe.net/pathfinder/ dpr.html

Doesn't work anymore. Also, it's for level 10. Anyways, we don't need a DPR calculator to evaluate damage. Just seeing the attack rolls and damage bonuses is enough to predict the incoming pain.

I think I've proven that a Ranger is slightly stronger at level 20 than the Arsenal Chaplain. And we are not even abusing Named Bullet Greater and Greater Quarry here.

Especially since the main Arsenal Chaplain buff is Divine Power and Ranger could always cast it from a scroll with UMD. If we are playing a game where Warpriests have access to Gloves of Dueling, why not Divine Power for a Ranger?

My own top 5 for archery builds :
1. Ranger of Erastil + UMD Bestow Grace of the Champion CL40 + UMD Divine Power
2. Arsenal Chaplain (Erastil + Bestow Grace of the Champion)
3. Paladin Archer of Shelyn that uses Smite Evil. 2x charisma to attack rolls.
4. Divine Paragon Cleric of Erastil + Bestow Grace of the Champion (gets to the third boon at level 14)
5. Fighter of Erastil with a bunch of UMD buffs

666bender wrote:

Archery have 1 enemy = cover from allies.

Mount is also needed , to get full attacks.

Sancified slayer = top ranks.with domain= mount.
Ranger is next.
Zen archer is third.
Fighter then, to shoot at melee range.
Minstral bard is next for the total amazament.

I don't understand.

Groundhog wrote:

Max Ranged DPS; Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest. Just the way it is.

That said, it's hard to go wrong with archery.

Top Tier ones;

Zen Archer Monk
Sohei Monk (not widely known, but this is actually the way to get most arrows into the air, as unlike the Zen Archer it allows you to rapid shot and manyshot while flurrying with your bow after 6th level. Still not quite to Zen Archer levels, regardless.)
Paladin (especially if you take oath of vengeance so you're not short on smites per day)
Ranger(when fighting your favored enemy, or with the Ilsurian Archer archetype in general)
Eldritch Archer Magus

Why is the Arsenal Chaplain the top one again? Are you doing these same calculations?

Weapon Training +4
Gloves +2
Bane +2 (From Weapon Spirit)
Weapon Focus +1
Greater Weapon Focus +1 (+10)
Channel Vigor +4

Damage :
Weapon Training +4
Gloves +2
Bane +2
Weapon Spec/Advanced Wep Spec +4 (+12)

+ Divine Power with Fate's Favored : +7

Total : 1d20 +21, 1d8+19 +2d6 dmg

If we are talking about Self-Buffs, then yea this Warpriest is absolutely insane.

The Ranger in Compararison :
+ 10 Instant Enemy (Rod of Quicken Lesser)
+ 5 Enemy Insight (Rod of Quicken Lesser)
+ 1 Weapon Focus
+ 4 Improved Quarry (crits auto confirm) (+20)
+ 5 BAB difference
(I don't care much about Gravity Bow honestly but we do get it)

Total : 1d20+25, 2d6+15 dmg

So I still think this Ranger is very competitive. Especially considering we auto confirm crits and we have named bullet greater.

If you play with "Delayed feat taking" which I do play with, I can just take the Wizard VMC (Costs 5 feats).
At level 20, I take Immortality (Ex)

Caspain wrote:

Battling some unfun pedantry players.

Oh no

I see that there are going to be quite a few frontliners already.
Why not join the fun with a Paladin 2/Ninja X.
Ninja is a very fun class. You will get an extra attack with your full attack thanks to Ki Pool. You can also use good exotic weapons and have heavy armor.

So the build is :
Paladin is there for saves, weapon proficiencies (1 level dip or 2 level dip, if you want even better saves). That smite evil is good against bosses too. If you are evil, just use Antipaladin.

Then we go into Ninja. I like this class. You get a ton of skills, sneak attacks, tons of ninja tricks and you can pick the rogue advanced talents too. Even though the BAB is not idea, we will have good enough attack rolls and we get that extra attack too. Sneak Attack damage will do a lot of damage. Antipaladin is probably the best choice because you can have better alignments than LG.

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When choosing a domain, you have to look at a couple of things, the powers and the spells.
If I only consider the late game Cleric (17+), the Trickery domain is the best because you get Time Stop.

Every single teleport spell you might need for moving around in the world, you can use Miracle instead at 0 cost (Miracle doesn't costs gold if you just replicate a spell).

After that, the Animal domain gets you Shapechange. And Shapechange will grant you access to all the good spells : Giant Form II , Form of The Dragon 3 etc.
The feather subdomain is especially good :

Eyes of the Hawk (Ex): You gain a racial bonus on Perception checks equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1). In addition, if you can act during a surprise round, you receive a +2 racial bonus on your Initiative check.

my top domains:
1. Trickery (just get time stop)
2. Animal/Feather (we get shapechange, an animal companion and perception bonuses)
3. Travel/Trade (we get the useful spells, and a way to escape grapple)
4. Demon subdomain (crazy damage for melee)

What? Is this an instance of the rare CE GM?

Serisan wrote:
edmondlebeau wrote:

Just wanted to say that your character sheet is beautiful.

Did you do everything by hand? What is your template?

It is quite literally just the standard Hero Lab export to PDF.

Hero Lab is great! PC version or Ipad?

Serisan wrote:
Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
They do get Remove fear at level one. So potentially (although I wouldn't recommend this) could take logical spell at 3 and be able to spontaneously remove fear from level 4 on. Fear being the biggest threat to psychic casters.

Potion of Remove Fear + Spring-loaded wrist sheath accomplishes the same thing.

I played a psychic in PFS up to level 20. I wouldn't call it "optimal" but it certainly performed well. The guiding principle when progressing is "what can't I deal with yet?" and then pick something to address it. This is why you see spells like Greater Object Possession (a.k.a. Golem-be-Gone) and Ectoplasmic Eruption (Ghost-be-Gone). At high levels, do not underestimate the ridiculousness of Spell Perfection (Ill Omen) for quickened save manipulation, particularly with its interaction with the Persistent metamagic feat (roll twice and take the worst, then roll twice and take the worst again if you succeeded the first time). This is a beautiful way to eat those first level spell slots at higher levels and makes things go from "decently likely" to "almost guaranteed."

A lot of people talk up Abomination, but I really prefer Tranquility and Self-Perfection for defensive capabilities. The more I've looked at it, Rivethun is pretty flippin' cool, too, as it offers significant mutability over time. Self-Perfection offers a killer set of bonus spells (many of which are considered must-picks) along with the disease/poison immunity that can save your life. Tranquility's 13th level power shuts off a large number of anti-Psychic things, like dragon auras and such, though you can get around this with Intellect Fortress or similar, as well. Rivethun just lets you be everything and, at 5th level, you can consistently have Channel Energy by taking a Life wandering spirit during metamorphosis. 13th level opens up a lot more options, including the removal of breathing and addition of see in...

Just wanted to say that your character sheet is beautiful.

Did you do everything by hand? What is your template?

My Cleric Rage Prophet (Level 20) Build goes up to DC 60 Dominate Monster.
But the Cleric needs to be polymorphed into a Huge Dragon.

I would compare the cost of the Graveknight to the cost of other costly things, items. We can get a lot of value out of this servant.
The Graveknight is a rare thing. It is undying, pretty powerful and it is evil. That is perfect for a guardian/protector monster in a dungeon. So if you have the perfect buyer, I think these are fair prices.
I would say level 9 Graveknight no less than 100k
Then 25k additional cost per level.

That gets us to 375k for a Level 20 Graveknight, which is still pretty cheap so you might want to rework the numbers for higher levels.

Don't sell it for less. This thing can be useful even for you guys. Just open the bag somewhere, leave and let it do the dirty business for you.

avr wrote:

Swashigator (Inspired blade swashbuckler 1 / Investigator X) is popular. Easy dex to damage, studied combat later on, buffs from alchemical extracts. Reasonably effective when mobile since it potentially gets an extra attack from parry/riposte.

Unchained rogue with either an elven curveblade, or a couple of light weapons can deal out some decent damage. It's not always the best at taking hits but the debuffs from debilitating strike can help.

A daring champion cavalier, probably dipping a level into swashbuckler to get the parry/riposte, can get their level to damage twice over between the challenge and precise strike. They don't need dex to damage due to that...

There are more exotic types like a druid 4 w/shaping focus, multiclassed with whatever class you like best to take advantage of an air elemental's dex bonus. Then there's some weird monk stuff. What sort of character are you actually interested in?

Build #1, that dip abuse!

Build #2 Daring Champion is always a lot of damage
These builds are strong! I especially like Build #1

You can also have a multiclassed Dex to damage Monk with 3 levels of UC Rogue.

Ragoz wrote:

Breakdown from above:

The character is a garuda blooded aasimar.

He took charged by nature: battle mystery gaining warsight and weapon mastery.

His feats are: point blank, precise, rapid, teamwork feat allied spellcaster, deadly aim, weapon focus, improved critical, ranger style manyshot, and demon hunter.

Traits: deadeye bowman and reactionary

His cunning initiative gives him 6 dex + 5 wis + 2 reactionary + 1 ioun stone to init.

He uses a rod to extend heroism and has boots of speed to haste as needed.

He tries to study the enemy before breaking invisibility if possible. With study bane and sneak attack he does: 1d8 longbow + 4 Deadly + 2 enhancement + 2 bane + 2 study + 1 point blank + 2d6 bane + 2d6 sneak attack per attack.

Bab + Many + Rapid + Haste + (bab-5) attacks per round.

Total is: 5d8+55+20d6

My actual favorite archer can't be built anymore and used early entry rules. He's my highest level pfs character at 16.. I want a chance to play him again so bad.

He is currently wizard 2 / eldritch knight 10 / Arcane archer 4.

How are you qualifying for Eldritch Knight? You don't have Martial Weapons Proficiency as a Wizard

I think lifting the limit is fine. I can think of so many things that are way more broken.
You are not getting better attack rolls, you just add more weapon properties.

Matt2VK wrote:
edmondlebeau wrote:

Edit : Doesn't work with bows, forget about the bow section.

Can work with a bow. Just need to carry around the oversized ammo and set that ammo on the ground before you enlarge.

It seems that the next ally has to use a melee attack, so a bow attack would not work.

One really OP Paladin archetype is Virtuous Bravo but that's not good for a ranged build.

Chosen One is another great archetype. A straight upgrade. You lose pretty much nothing. The smite and divine graces comes a bit later... and you get a familiar that scales with paladin level.
When you smite, the familiar smites too. Pretty good!

Would this be useful to your build?

Adept Champion
You can alter your smite ability, channeling the power of your deity into divine inspiration that grants you greater aptitude for performing combat maneuvers.
Prerequisites: Smite evil class feature, base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: While using your smite evil class feature, as a swift action at the start of your turn, you can forgo the bonus on damage rolls and instead gain half that bonus as a bonus oncombat maneuver checks against the target of your smite. The effects of your smite evil feature return to normal at the start of your next turn.

Maximum +10 to CMB.
Even more if you worship Shelyn (and have the boon) or if it's against an outsider.

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I would just do Ranger VMC Summoner, TWF build with Butterfly String. I worship Gozreh (N)
I then Summon a Young Cloud Giant with a longbow. I can cast enlarge person on it (or not) and lead blades.

Damage is : 3d6+14/×3. I have 19HD with a Celestial or Fiendish template so I can smite too for +19 damage.
3d6+33 (with enlarge person)
4d6+33 (with lead blades)
Critical damage is 12d6+99 (Average 135 damage)

Or use the greatsword with power attack: 4d6+21+19 = 4d6+40+12(pa) = 4d6+52 (enlarge person) -> 6d6+52 (leadblades) = 140 average

Cloud giant is (With broadsword) : 4d6+18 + 16 = 4d6+34
+ enlarge person : 6d6+34
+ lead blades : 8d6+34
crit is 16d6+68 : (Average 116)
(With power attack : 116+24 (Average 140)

Edit : Doesn't work with bows, forget about the bow section.