dtreth's page

The Eoxian battleship, Thaumtech Omenbringer, has biometric locks for security.

At first, I did a double take, biometrics for undead? They don't have any, right?

The definition of the system just says it can only be used by certain creatures as designated.

So, just what are the "bio"-metrics for a type of creature where most examples no longer have a working biology or even any flesh left?

Do you know how the vast majority of facial recognition software works? By calculating the distance between facial features, like eyes (or eye orbitals in this case) or the nose (or nose cavity, in this case). There's no problem here.

OR, if you want to make the doors essentially unhackable by living creatures, the machine could test their bone marrow.

Undone wrote:

dwayne germaine wrote:

I see the problem more that you need the potable in hand to drink it as a swift action, while the standard action to drink an extract includes drawing it.

As a GM I think I would rule that for extracts Potion Glutton doesn't include the drawing of the extract. You could still benefit from it by using a move action to draw it, a swift to drink it, and still have a standard for the round.

To me this seems to most closely follow the rules, but from previous discussions I know there are other opinions on what RAW says

Or quick draw which negates it.

Quick draw allows you to draw a weapon as a free action. You need a lenient GM to allow you to draw other things with it (hence table variation)

If I have throw anything (which I do since I am an investi-alchemist) then doesn't that make anything I draw a weapon?

There is a flag button to the upper right of each post.

If you feel some poster has said something truly objectionable, it is nearly always better to just flag that (and play the "which category is this?" game) than it is to engage them.

It is extremely, extremely rare for someone to go "You know what? You're right!" when challenged. I'm told this is true for sites other than Paizo.com as well.. ;p

Meh, I feel personally very hurt at the tipping accusation, but it's not really a reportable thing, right? Seems kind of petty.

Roby George wrote:

The only thing I will say about this is that me trying to be the better person and actually purchase these PDFs has not done me any favors. If I had wanted to pirate them, I would not be, over an hour later, trying to download even one of the files.

It is generally the case that the wrong course of action is easier in some way than doing the right thing (since otherwise nobody would bother and it wouldn't even be in the mix). You being a better person is a great outcome and sticking to your principles has done you favors in that regard.

To be clear, I do think these delays are a REALLY BAD THING (tm) - both a bad look for Paizo and a frustrating experience for new visitors to paizo. I just think it's worth stating that doing the right/legal thing is, in fact, an intrinsic reward (in my opinion, anyhow).

I wish more people felt that intrinsic reward. However, given the current political climate in America, I don't really believe this to be true. That feeling you and I get from doing the right thing is, I believe, an evolutionary trait that not all humans share.

Quote:

Not liking something and not understanding why something is used aren't even remotely the same thing. And since you clearly read what I wrote you can see that I clearly demonstrate that. If that's you not trying to antagonize, you're very bad at it.

And the minimum credit card thing can get your business's contract with the credit card company revoked. So it's not just a "those damn hippies don't understand business!" thing.

But, given that you make those conflations, I can make the assumption that you are OK with businesses doing whatever they have to do to take your money and run, so you defending them when that's the charge against them (NOT by me, but by the position I was trying to explain originally) isn't ideal.

I'm not saying those damn hippies don't understand business, I'm saying you don't. Besides, the credit card thing is so barely relevant anymore that it's practically a formality: if you're going to Applebee's then you're already intending to spend more than ten dollars anyway.

You never did answer the original question of why you hate DRM so much. In this case, yes it is annoying in the sense that it is preventing us from getting our PDF's as fast as we want, but the concept itself is just good business sense and Paizo's take on it is one of the most liberal that you'll find.

Literally everything you wrote after you said I didn't explain is EXACTLY WHAT I EXPLAINED.

And then you latch onto my turn of phrase and try to make another (completely unsupported) point, while using insinuations that I am losing my mind over DRM (when in fact I am losing my mind over ostensibly intelligent people having SUCH a hard time with reading comprehension).

dtreth wrote:

Carrion Crow wrote:

J4RH34D wrote:

Carrion Crow wrote:

Any chance that the Paizo site has a venue for forum-based thumb wrestling as a way to settle disputes?

If so, then kudos. If not? Think about it. It could be fun.

I have sent you a PM, envelope at the top of the page next to your name

My first piece of possible (hell, who am I kidding, more like highly probable) hate mail? I'm honored! =)

Why would it be hate mail? As one of the people you are referring to, I would also like to know where this part of the forums is (at least I found it funny, anyway).

I imagined he assumes hate mail because "Internet"

I don't think we can do thumb wars but we can certainly do rock paper scissors :P

You know those "Saving Throw" Pathfinder intro videos? I think we should take their example fighting round: two identical level 1 soldiers with no armour, long swords and 10 all ability scores.

All merchants are legally able to impose a minimum purchase, up to $10, for customers paying by credit card, under the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act. Dodd-Frank was signed into law in December 2010.

OK, so my point still stands pre-2010, and for all those bars with a $20 minimum.

J4RH34D wrote:

Carrion Crow wrote:

Any chance that the Paizo site has a venue for forum-based thumb wrestling as a way to settle disputes?

If so, then kudos. If not? Think about it. It could be fun.

I have sent you a PM, envelope at the top of the page next to your name

My first piece of possible (hell, who am I kidding, more like highly probable) hate mail? I'm honored! =)

Why would it be hate mail? As one of the people you are referring to, I would also like to know where this part of the forums is (at least I found it funny, anyway).

I am down to one file left that I want. Ultimate Campaigns.. you will be mine.

Did anyone else manage to catch the live streams the other day? It was AWESOME and I hope Paizo does more of it :)

Fey Corgis will forever be my favorite now.

I missed it because I play Runescape and was preparing for the double XP weekend. I am disappoint, but am planning on watching the stream as a sort of "pathfinder introduction".

Maybe this could be of help to people trying to download stuff: I managed to download a file (Bestiary, about 55 MB, middle-high in size of Paizo's PDFs) about 30 minutes ago: the whole thing took me about 20 minutes, but I'm chalking that up mostly to the fact that not many people are around at this time.

I'm writing this because during the process I got kicked out to the main page twice and my firefox crashed once, and I got my PDF about 8 minutes after I reopened the window after the crash: considering that that looks like too short a time for the queue, I suspect that you don't get booted out of the queue after you crash/get back to main page/whatever. For those still having problems getting their stuff, I'd say try to keep clicking once a minute, queing a single file, and keep trying on the same file even if you get sent back to main page.

I think getting kicked back DOES lose your place in the queue, but I have three wholle files now making sure to click the link once every 5 minutes, so as not to get kicked.

Lissa Guillet wrote:

thegrayquill wrote:

I now worship at the shrine of Lissa. Kindly list your domains so I know what spells I have access to.

Lawful Good Technology Sun Fire

Favored Weapon: Compressed Air?

Would foam darts be under compressed air? (also, why is it always nerf weaponry? I mean, I have a literal nerf arsenal for this purpose, so I get the appeal, I just don't get the why behind it)

dtreth wrote:

Lissa Guillet wrote:

Twitchontv wrote:

Also, FWIW the download page started running really smoothly just a second ago. At least on my end. Kudos to the IT team at paizo for keeping the servers from bursting into flames over the last few days.

<3

I gotta give it up to the response team, too, because their taks was impossible and they managed to almost do it anyway. I have two files now! (admittedly one of them is the GM screen, but still!)

Yeah, I can't do a ton, but I can very occasionally blow the queue and let people who are in right now and testing get some stuff fairly quickly. It's kind of pointless when we're on the onslaught because it gets lost in all the requests but very late at night when I'm trying to update things, it can make sense.

No no, I am ALL FOR the turn and burn approach, I am very scorched earth on those types f things. Blowing the queue might alleviate the problem of people hammering the site for the same document after it times out, too (depending on how exactly your system works). But if all you can do is get testers time to test that's invaluable right now. I come from QA, so I immediately go "did this have enough QA time?" and "if you want to know where your bottlenecks are, ask QA. They'll tell you exactly when they get up for coffee."

None of these things are strictly applicable to the watermarking system that paizo, drivethru.com, and most other online pdf retailers use to mark their documents.

Are you kidding me? The literal purpose is to catch people who try to make unauthorized copies and redistribute it to their friends/for a profit and use them in official Pathfinder capacity. It's literally in the definition. If you believe it's right, then say so, but don't hide behind possible technicalities. Defend your position like you believe in it.

It seems like you went with what comes after the word "typically", which is, you know, not "always", or they would have used that word. The intent is the same, yes. But note the last sentence of the definition I provided. I've been able to download my purchased files as many times as I would like onto as many devices as I need to with no problems or time limitations. Just some extra characters imprinted onto my pages to prove that I own them.

So you DID read the part after "typically" as if those were the defining features, rather than, "typically" how it's done. Note the usage of "or" there. It's the classic programmer's or, meaning it doesn't have to do all three of those things. Any are sufficient. It means digitally managing the rights, which is PRECISELY what is being done here.

Twitchontv wrote:

Also, FWIW the download page started running really smoothly just a second ago. At least on my end. Kudos to the IT team at paizo for keeping the servers from bursting into flames over the last few days.

<3

I gotta give it up to the response team, too, because their task was impossible and they managed to almost do it anyway. I have two files now! (admittedly one of them is the GM screen, but still!)

techtarget.com said wrote:

Digital rights management (DRM) is a systematic approach to copyright protection for digital media. The purpose of DRM is to prevent unauthorized redistribution of digital media and restrict the ways consumers can copy content they've purchased. DRM products were developed in response to the rapid increase in online piracy of commercially marketed material, which proliferated through the widespread use of peer-to-peer file exchange programs. Typically DRM is implemented by embedding code that prevents copying, specifies a time period in which the content can be accessed or limits the number of devices the media can be installed on.

None of these things are strictly applicable to the watermarking system that paizo, drivethru.com, and most other online pdf retailers use to mark their documents.

Are you kidding me? The literal purpose is to catch people who try to make unauthorized copies and redistribute it to their friends/for a profit and use them in official Pathfinder capacity. It's literally in the definition. If you believe it's right, then say so, but don't hide behind possible technicalities. Defend your position like you believe in it.

It seems like you went with what comes after the word "typically", which is, you know, not "always", or they would have used that word.

dtreth wrote:

Samy wrote:

This is a good training exercise for potential future subscribers. Every month we go through the same thing. "Some people have their PDF already? When does mine ship when does mine ship??"

So now you're admitting that all the people who say there's never a problem when there isn't a Humble Bundle were lying? I now have less sympathy for Paizo; if they had even modest slowdowns during normal times, then they should have known even a modest Humble Bundle response would be problematic.

Way to take something out of context (though he was missing some context)

SUBSCRIBERS get physical books sent to them and then they also get the PDF copy at no additional charge. However, their account is not flagged for the PDF until their order is ready to ship. SO yes, sometimes I might get my order shipped before yours, which means I would get my PDF before you. It's not a 'slowdown' it's a matter of shipping of the actual product.

So I didn't take anything out of context, you yourself admit it was presented lacking that context.

OK, so I withdraw that criticism but return with: you need to physically ship them before giving them the PDF? I now have 0 faith in Paizo technical support. However, the game is JUST SO COOL all of my misgivings will most likely wash away when I have my very own "personalised" book.

dtreth wrote:

For most people a "timely fashion" for a digital piece of work is "however fast my connection can download it". The problem is NOT with their ability to get the file to me, it's in applying their DRM. A lot of people, ESPECIALLY Humble devotees, hate DRM no matter what. And in this case, it's SOLELY for Pathfinder Society use that it even matters (to us; however much you believe in copyright laws it's Paizo's deal not ours).
Just because there's no easy immediate solution (but by the way, there have been at least three suggestions that would work, but not in a way Paizo would like) doesn't mean there isn't a reason to be legitimately upset.

It also matters because of other reasons, not just for PFS. The watermarking is done by MANY other sites. DriveThruRPG does it with most PDFs, etc.

As for the 'at least three suggestions that would work, but not in a way Paizo would like' why should they waste time on those temporary fixes when they can be working on a fix to the actual problem?

I made no judgement either way, but I can TOTALLY understand someone who clicked through from Humble (WHICH, by the way, originally incorrectly described this as DRM-free) would chafe at that. I normally do too, but in this case I understand the margins and Paizo isn't Microsoft. Saying other people do it too is just an excuse, nothing more, nothing less. The old adage about jumping off a bridge comes to mind.

As for your other comment, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE ANGRY AND COMPANIES SHOULD DO WHATEVER THEY CAN TO QUELL CUSTOMER OUTRAGE! I shouted it because this point has been repeated ad nauseum, but a lot of you still aren't getting it. Maybe you'll read it if it's all-caps.

Lithin wrote:

Hiya,

Is it possible to bulk download documents? Buying the big humble bundle you have to download a ton of different files instead of just 1 zipped.

Paizo files are marked with your own personal watermark. all files need to be individually watermarked, its for that reason that you'll have to download so many sepperate files.

No, that's just not true. Because Paizo never anticipated something so braindead obvious as someone wanting to download all of the things they purchased at the same time, they never thought to code the thing to work for that scenario.

This is a good training exercise for potential future subscribers. Every month we go through the same thing. "Some people have their PDF already? When does mine ship when does mine ship??"

So now you're admitting that all the people who say there's never a problem when there isn't a Humble Bundle were lying? I now have less sympathy for Paizo; if they had even modest slowdowns during normal times, then they should have known even a modest Humble Bundle response would be problematic.

Devolis wrote:

Some folks seem to think it's helping to post here telling us how much THEY don't care and that we too need to be chill about not getting what we payed for, often while making fun of us. It's not helping and they're wrong.

I think that's a fair point. Telling people how they should feel is almost always a bad idea.

Devolis wrote:

The bottom line is that not satisfying your customers is bad business, no matter the reason, and not providing goods and services they've payed for in a timely fashion is not OK.

Here's where I take issue with your post: What's a timely fashion? Their system can't handle the load and they're taking steps to fix the problem with more hardware. Without trying to minimize the genuine disappointment you are feeling, how would you handle this situation in Paizo's shoes? Would you want Paizo to stop offering the Bundle, refund your money, and pack their things up?

Given the reality of the situation, what outcome do you want?

For most people a "timely fashion" for a digital piece of work is "however fast my connection can download it". The problem is NOT with their ability to get the file to me, it's in applying their DRM. A lot of people, ESPECIALLY Humble devotees, hate DRM no matter what. And in this case, it's SOLELY for Pathfinder Society use that it even matters (to us; however much you believe in copyright laws it's Paizo's deal not ours).

For some. When I donate to charity, I do it for the charity.

dtreth wrote:

I wish people would stop flogging the "charity" angle. It's a tax write-off, nothing more and nothing less.

If you think that's why most people buy Humble Bundles, then I have a nice, shiny non-profit you can donate to....

dtreth wrote:

Skeld wrote:

Bando wrote:

Not exactly the right space for this but, out of curiosity, what are the "single file", "one file per chapter", "'lite-single file", and "lite one file per chapter" choices all about?

Keep up the awesome work!

to quote a post I saw on the Paizo Facebook page today by Jason Chapa,

"Top goblins...TOP...goblins"

Single file is the entire book in one PDF.

One File Per Chapter is a separate, smaller PDF for each chapter of the book.

The "lite" versions have some of the background graphics muted so that they'll render better/quicker on devices like phones and older tablets.

Different options for different needs and uses.

-Skeld

I wish people would stop flogging the "charity" angle. It's a tax write-off, nothing more and nothing less.

Since i didn't say anything about charities, I'll assume you meant to respond to someone else. :D

-Skeld

YUP! Sorry, still having problems with which reply button is which, I will perservere and figure out these forums yet!

Bando wrote:

Not exactly the right space for this but, out of curiosity, what are the "single file", "one file per chapter", "'lite-single file", and "lite one file per chapter" choices all about?

Keep up the awesome work!

to quote a post I saw on the Paizo Facebook page today by Jason Chapa,

"Top goblins...TOP...goblins"

Single file is the entire book in one PDF.

One File Per Chapter is a separate, smaller PDF for each chapter of the book.

The "lite" versions have some of the background graphics muted so that they'll render better/quicker on devices like phones and older tablets.

Different options for different needs and uses.

-Skeld

I wish people would stop flogging the "charity" angle. It's a tax write-off, nothing more and nothing less.

If a company offered a $350 phone for $20 (to charity) and had 10 times the orders expected, it would be reasonable to expect delays. Those rules don't stop applying just because we're dealing in digital.

Motorola basically had this response when they launched the new Moto X only through their online store and Best Buy. People complained (rightly) that Motorola/Lenovo wasn't communicating well enough when the hell they should expect their phones.

I don't get why people are acting like if they don't get the books downloaded within the next five seconds they'll lose them forever (probably general tech illiteracy, despite the fact they use computers and the internet all day) but it's pretty annoying when there is an expectation created by the very site they bought this deal from that no matter the traffic spike it can handle it. I need to see this stuff and read a lot before I can recommend this (or not) for my 13-year-old cousin, and I am really frustrated this is taking so long just to read the core rulebook. (If someone sends me to the Pathfinder Reference Document, so help me....)

Oh hey! Just managed to get my core rules book downloaded! Looks like you just gotta leave the download page open for about 10 minutes or so.

Oh, if it were only that easy. That's usually how these things go, one person can get one successfully through for every 100 (or 1000 or more) people who get nothing. There's nothing they can do about it but react now, though, and they seem to be doing that well at this juncture.

And on the plus side... more players (though really, I suspect the majority of the 30k odd folk who have done this are already players).

And... more hardware so in the future the downloads will scale better.

Of course this is the reason that a lot of firms base their online offerings in the cloud, so you can just scale up when there are unusual bulges of activity like this.

My small worry is that I don't think Paizo keep the watermarked PDFs for ever. Certainly when I have gone back to re-download material a few months after I first got it, it has gone through the process a second time. I hope they have enough storage for watermarked PDFs that we don't get into a thrashing situation with so many PDFs being requested that they can't store them for a reasonable amount of time.

It's pretty clear that their concurrent requests have eclipsed their entire personalization storage. One of the big problems they're having right now (and why I would stop short of praising them the way the first "IT Guy" did) is that the personalizations are starting over after timing out.

chris krumlauf wrote:

The issue is the DRM which is now between customers and their purchase.

That seems overly simplistic. I won't say the DRM isn't part of it, but to place it entirely on it is equally wrong.

No, and this isn't a matter of opinion, the fact is that it's the DRM that's standing between the customers and their product.

Now, you can make the argument that this is the only way something like this can be sold online (and I'd agree; and I am an anti-DRM guy) but you can't deny reality.

dtreth wrote:

And given what I know, I'm not sure what's the best way to be "patient".

Here's a list of things I'm doing:

* Playing Dragon Age: Inquisition
* Playing Sims 3
* Going to work
* Reading the news
* Playing Pathfinder on these messageboards with the PRD (which is still available)
* Talking to other people IRL
* Facebook
* Email
* Checking Steam and GOG for sales
* Working on my school paper

You may be able to come up with any number of things applicable to your situation.

OK, thanks for being the second person to take "be patient" out of context.

The best way to be patient is to, in fact, be patient. Find something to do that isn't downloading the items in question while the tech team works on the issue.

Side note: I'm always amazed at the tech experts that arrive to nod knowingly at the problem and how they could fix it better, cheaper, and with results that outstrip the industry. The internet never ceases to amaze.

What I meant was, how to best continue to try the download without hammering the server extra-hard.

And if you knew anything about the software industry it's mostly true, but that's also not what I said. I gave concrete examples that are actually what's happening.

CN_Minus wrote:

What's the word on the status of the issue?

This post.

I honestly don't think anyone was expecting this level of response, and it has unfortunately caught the store with its pants down. It's not anyone's fault, as such. It's probably something along the lines of (number completely made up) "well, previous Book Bundles have had throughput at X. And the Paizo servers can handle even 2 or 3 times X. Simples. And OMG WHY ARE SEVEN TIMES AS MANY PEOPLE AS OUR WORST-CASE SCENARIO SUDDENLY SPAMMING THE STORE?!!!!"

And then there's the Tech team, whimpering over their keyboards, crying at their code which is being asked to do things it was never designed to do.

I have been reading other threads from previous download issues, and it seems like the PDF personalization software is either a service or SDK type thing they bought. What I'm learning from this is there is an opening in the PDF DRM industry for software that doesn't suck.

dtreth wrote:

Chris Lambertz wrote:

...Paizo.com has had constant and diligent attention to remain stable over the last 24 hours...

I think using the word "stable" here is a pretty big indicator of the difference between marketing and customer service spin and reality. The site hasn't been and is not stable even now. It's barely alive. If it were stable I'd be able to get my download that I requested yesterday by now.

Downloading's barely alive, but the site itself is stable enough for people in here to carry out a conversation :3

Is it irony that I got two 404's trying to respond to you? I guess ironic for you, not for me, since it's what I expected.

...Paizo.com has had constant and diligent attention to remain stable over the last 24 hours...

I think using the word "stable" here is a pretty big indicator of the difference between marketing and customer service spin and reality. The site hasn't been and is not stable even now. It's barely alive. If it were stable I'd be able to get my download that I requested yesterday by now.