dbauers's page

I finally got around to playing a 2e adventure path after playing 1e for so one. Playing as a Jekyl / Hyde type. Scientist with alchemical crafting, animal instinct barbarian (ape) at level 1. Going to take medic dedication and battle medicine at level 2.

I get that battle med during a rage isn’t an issue as far as concentration is concerned, but something else is tripping me up: the manipulate trait.

I have a free hand. In fact, I have two. But thanks to the morph trait that comes with animal instinct rage, I have two very large, gorilla hands.

Manipulate says: Creatures without a suitable appendage can’t perform actions with this trait.

So that is my question. Are gorilla hands considered “suitable” for healer’s tools? Do I need to buy a specialized set for when I’m raging so I don’t smash them?

My PCs are about to do the final assault on Valor's Fastness. They are aware of Exemplar and are worried about him. Frankly, I am too. How did your squads get thru this absolute monster's defenses?

I assume most parties that have dealt with him have had an antipaladin smiting with a two-handed power attack weapon to at least deal half dmg and bypass dmg reduction. My party doesn't have one of those. It just seems like their attacks with magic weapons (even ghost salted) will do very little damage.

Anyone have any advice that I can give them thru Razelago and / or Zara?

blahpers wrote:

dbauers wrote:

"allows the wearer to use the magic of the dimension door spell". if a wizard uses the magic of a dimension door spell, he can bring friends. why is it different if the wearer of a cape uses the magic of a dimension door spell? personally, i'd allow it as a dm.

I agree.

The reason why it moves only the wearer is exactly in the text you cited. It doesn't cast the spell, it only "allows the wearer to use the magic of the dimension door spell".

It doesn't allow "the wearer and n friends to use the magic of dimension door".

A wizard doesn't "use the magic of dimension door", he cast it at his caster level.

When a wizard casts dimension door on himself and his barbarian friend, the wizard is the one using the magic of dimension door, and both he and the barbarian benefit. When a cleric uses mass cure light wounds, the cleric is using the magic of mass cure light wounds, and the cleric and allies benefit. There is no difference between that and the cape wearer using the magic of dimension door thru the cape.

For the item to work as you are stating, I would expect the wording of the cape to say something along the lines of “the wearer can transport himself as though he had used dimension door”

yeah the "depending on form" clause was what was getting me.

but since type is retained, what you're saying makes a lot of sense.

for me, just from a logical standpoint, i was thinking along the lines of: why would a hound archon ever turn into a dog/wolf, if he would have to sacrifice all of his defensive abilities? seems like a huge risk. if he keeps them all, it is a nice way to have a disguise, have some flexibility, etc.

thanks for the responses!

"allows the wearer to use the magic of the dimension door spell". if a wizard uses the magic of a dimension door spell, he can bring friends. why is it different if the wearer of a cape uses the magic of a dimension door spell? personally, i'd allow it as a dm.

Here's another wrinkle to add, and I promise I'm not being obtuse on purpose:

Per the adventure, the hound archon has used change shape to turn into a dog when he is first encountered.

"As soon as anyone crosses more than halfway across the bridge, the dog
speaks in a clear, bold voice, “You shall go no farther.” Once he has issued this warning, Aericad assumes his true form, threatening any
who try to cross the bridge."

If he loses ALL "su" abilities, including True Speech, how is he speaking common while in dog form?

I originally posted this in the Hell's Vengeance forum, but there isn't a lot of traffic there. This is more of a rules question than a "running the adventure" question anyhow.

I am DMing HV, and we are nearing the end of book 1, and I am getting tripped up by the hound archon’s “change shape” ability. I know several of them appear later on in the AP as well, so I’d really like to get a handle on them, and a quick search hasn’t yielded much help.

A hound archon’s change shape allows them to assume any canine from small to large, per Beast Shape II. The change shape universal monster ability says it functions as the appropriate polymorph spell, but the creature does not adjust its ability scores.

The polymorph subschool lists a number of effects that impact your stats.

So what exactly happens if a hound archon changes into say, a large dire wolf?

Here is what is obvious to me that happens during the usage of change shape
1) Archon does NOT get +4 size bonus to strength (expressly mentioned in change shape)
2) Archon changes to large size, gaining associated bonuses / penalties to AC, Attacks, CMB/CMD, Stealth skill
3) He retains low-light vision and scent (dire wolf also has these, and BS II allows them)
4) He gains trip ability of a dire wolf, and +4 to CMD vs trip for having 4 legs
5) Replaces his bite / slam with bite attack of a dire wolf (1d8 dmg), at the hound archon’s BA bonus (+6), including proficiency (per polymorph subschool rules)
6) Gear (sword) melds into body, per rules for changing into an animal type (per polymorph subschool rules)
7) Gains +10 to disguise skill to appear as a dire wolf (per polymorph subschool rules)
8) Loses darkvision, which is specifically called out as something lost in the polymorph subschool rules

Here is what is not obvious to me when he uses change shape
1) What is his natural armor in dire wolf form? BS II says you get a “+4 natural armor bonus”. Does this mean a bonus of +4 to his original +9 natural amount? Does it mean you replace his +9 with +4 instead? Or does it mean you take the +3 normal nat AC of a dire wolf and then add a +4 bonus to this? This to me, is VERY unclear (mainly due to the word “bonus”) and I could see a case for it being either +4 or +7 or +13.
2) Per polymorph rules, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that DEPEND ON YOUR ORIGINAL FORM. I don’t know what this means. Which of the following abilities does and does not a hound archon retain when using change shape?

*Constant spell-like abilities: detect evil, magic circle against evil.
*At will spell-like abilities: aid, continual flame, greater teleport, message.
*Aura of menace
*Damage Reduction
*Immunities
*Spell Resistance
*True Speech

For my part, I'm tempted to let him keep all of the above, as they seem to come from divine gifts, rather than his "form". At the very least i would assume the SLAs stay, because they aren't ex or su. But I am interested in knowing what the rules actually say should happen.

Thanks in advance for any answers. This is, imo, a very confusing topic.

Personally, I'd rather just start off with the fort / court section (where they are actually supposed to be level 3) and go forward from there. Do a quick narrative about how dissent has been building in town, etc etc. Do it as a quick recap prologue, etc.

If you don't do that, it will be a LOT of extra work. And then what? By the raid on the rebels, will they now be level 5 instead of 3? So you'll have to revamp all of them too? Just seems like a cascading problem with a lot of extra work to do.

I am DMing HV, and we are nearing the end of book 1, and I am getting tripped up by the hound archon’s “change shape” ability. I know several of them appear later on in the AP as well, so I’d really like to get a handle on them, and a quick search hasn’t yielded much help.

A hound archon’s change shape allows them to assume any canine from small to large, per Beast Shape II. The change shape universal monster ability says it functions as the appropriate polymorph spell, but the creature does not adjust its ability scores.

The polymorph subschool lists a number of effects that impact your stats.

So what exactly happens if a hound archon changes into say, a large dire wolf?

Here is what is obvious to me that happens during the usage of change shape
1) Archon does NOT get +4 size bonus to strength (expressly mentioned in change shape)
2) Archon changes to large size, gaining associated bonuses / penalties to AC, Attacks, CMB/CMD, Stealth skill
3) He retains low-light vision and scent (dire wolf also has these, and BS II allows them)
4) He gains trip ability of a dire wolf, and +4 to CMD vs trip for having 4 legs
5) Replaces his bite / slam with bite attack of a dire wolf (1d8 dmg), at the hound archon’s BA bonus (+6), including proficiency (per polymorph subschool rules)
6) Gear (sword) melds into body, per rules for changing into an animal type (per polymorph subschool rules)
7) Gains +10 to disguise skill to appear as a dire wolf (per polymorph subschool rules)
8) Loses darkvision, which is specifically called out as something lost in the polymorph subschool rules

Here is what is not obvious to me when he uses change shape
1) What is his natural armor in dire wolf form? BS II says you get a “+4 natural armor bonus”. Does this mean a bonus of +4 to his original +9 natural amount? Does it mean you replace his +9 with +4 instead? Or does it mean you take the +3 normal nat AC of a dire wolf and then add a +4 bonus to this? This to me, is VERY unclear (mainly due to the word “bonus”) and I could see a case for it being either +4 or +7 or +13.
2) Per polymorph rules, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that DEPEND ON YOUR ORIGINAL FORM. I don’t know what this means. Which of the following abilities does and does not a hound archon retain when using change shape?

*Constant spell-like abilities: detect evil, magic circle against evil.
*At will spell-like abilities: aid, continual flame, greater teleport, message.
*Aura of menace
*Damage Reduction
*Immunities
*Spell Resistance
*True Speech

For my part, I'm tempted to let him keep all of the above, as they seem to come from divine gifts, rather than his "form". But I am interested in knowing what the rules actually say should happen.

Thanks in advance for any answers. This is a very confusing topic.

Watch out for a level 7 rogue 1-shotting you and taking your obscene amount of wealth. ;)

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

A well built Wizard or Sorcerer will be able to do many things the Psychic can't do, and many things it can do better, but it'll never beat it in its niche

Enchantment focused Kitsune sorcerers may disagree with you. Between the Fey Bloodline and FCB you are looking at +7DC.

Lol enchantment

Edit: I suppose I should also add something constructive. Wiz, then Cler, then Arcanist

what about also building traps to go along with those locks? no matter how high the lock dc, if a locked door isn't trapped, an adamantine anything ruins your day.

I think it is suffering from "bloat thread" bloat.

that's what I figured. thanks :)

I'm not sure if this is an error or not, but it seemed a bit crazy to me. Page 27, talking about the key-lock killer: "a man who slaughtered over 15 dozen victims between 4690 and 4697 before his killing spree mysteriously ended."

Is that supposed to read that he killed somewhere between a dozen and 15 victims? Or is it really saying that he killed 15 dozen, aka 180 people. That is an extraordinarily prolific serial killer.

Ok so here's a follow up:

Quick Strikes says: Whenever a fast zombie makes a full attack action, it can make one additional slam attack at its highest base attack bonus.

Does this mean it could do: claw/claw/bite/slam? Or would it only be able to do that without using nat attacks, basically instead doing slam/slam?

They'd have to be able to, or you could kite them indefinitely!

Also, since zombies are slow, they only get a single attack action. Pounce is a feat that only works with multiple attacks, as a full-attack action.

I think your tiger zombie would now only have a single slam attack, or possibly the bite or claw in lieu of a slam.

It's a "fast zombie" so it isn't staggered. But yeah, it seems like it keeps grab and that's about it.

Thanks guys!

So my character (wizard necromancer) in Hells Vengeance just animated a fast zombie dire tiger. A normal dire tiger has quite a few abilities, but I'm not sure which of these it retains upon joining the ranks of the undead. I've searched around a bit and haven't seen anything that really seems to definitively answer my question.

The relevant text from the pfsrd is:

Defensive Abilities: Zombies lose their defensive abilities and gain all of the qualities and immunities granted by the undead type.

Special Attacks: A zombie retains none of the base creature's special attacks.

Special Qualities: A zombie loses most special qualities of the base creature. It retains any extraordinary special qualities that improve its melee or ranged attacks.

That said, which of the following abilities does the zombie dire tiger retain: Low-light vision, Scent, Grab, Pounce, Rake?

My gut is telling me it loses low-light vision (but gains darkvision as an undead creature), it loses scent (as a special quality that doesn't improve its attacks), and it retains grab (as a special quality that improves its melee attacks).

Pounce and Rake are the real stumpers. Are they "special attacks"? Are they "Special qualities that improve melee attacks"?

Thanks in advance for answers!

Though Master Brandt wouldn't deign to beg for inclusion on his own behalf, I don't think he would have any issue with me speaking for him. His focused monastic training allowed him to pick up a talent that is usually not learned until one is far more experienced.

AKA, he dipped master of many styles so that he effectively has pounce at level 2.

Rest assured, his overwhelming focus is in serving Asmodeus and her Infernal Majestrix.

AKA, later on he will take a second level of monk to get another style feat without needing the prereqs, but aside from that all of his levels will be Warpriest. The magical knack trait makes up the caster level gap, so you can rest assured that he will most definitely be focused on self-buffing and getting right in the enemies' faces, just like a bog standard warpriest. The only difference is he uses his fist instead of a two-hander or a sword and board. And he benefits tremendously from both rage song and bardic music.

Ok, apologies for hijacking the thread, but I wanted to at least lobby for my guy. :) Happy selecting!

Ishia Acid Dart closest festrog, from higher ground: 1d20 + 3 + 1 - 4 ⇒ (19) + 3 + 1 - 4 = 19

Dmg: 1d6 + 1 ⇒ (1) + 1 = 2

Sayri climb down: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (17) + 4 = 21

She will draw her flail as well

Fort #1: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (1) + 8 = 9

Fort #2: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (2) + 8 = 10

Fort #3: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (12) + 8 = 20

Fort #4: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (1) + 8 = 9

Fort #5: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (10) + 8 = 18

Fort #6: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (4) + 8 = 12

Fort #7: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (15) + 8 = 23

After the cowboy episode I started compiling a list of who Rip Hunter is and isn't willing to kill.

1) Goes to ancient Egypt expressly to kill Vandal Savage. Has him on the ropes. Can't kill him due to unknown reasons? So genocidal dictator maniac who also had the added distinction of directly killing Rip's wife and child? Can't kill him.

2) Absconds with the little mini ship with "future Hitler 2.0", once again expressly with the intent to kill him. This isn't a hypothetical future Hitler 2.0, he KNOWS this kid will kill millions, or billions or whatever. Also, this action will directly lead to Vandal Savage's rise to power. Once again: can't kill him.

3) Random no-name, no consequence gang leader from the old west? Guns him down in a duel. With absolutely ZERO QUALMS.

Then of course with this week's episode we can add that 10 year old Rip is willing to kill the crazily inept time assassin lady, so I guess there's that....

No problem! I actually like doing stuff like this, lol. I'm im class right now, but when I get home later tonight I can do a more detailed breakdown, like items/cash/total, etc.

Also, my computation assumed no one wanted the armor. For my part, I need something a bit more in the AC department, as a front-liner, though I do think the flavor of it is cool.

Tbh, I wanna frickin save up my dough and by an adamantine scimitar.

Without further ado, here is Ibrahim's upgrades for level 2.

+8 hp (6 + 1 con +1 favored)

+8 skills (1 rank in same as level 1 skills)

+1 BA

+1 BF

Challenge Ability: extra dmg increases from +1 to +2

Tactician Ability: duration increases from 3 to 4 rounds

New Order Ability:

Aid Allies (ex): Ibrahim gives +3 instead of +2 when aiding another

Considering this is a 28-point buy game, and you are playing a race perfect for an antipaladin, with +2 racial str AND cha, may I make a humble suggestion if you want more skills, background or otherwise?

You are paying 17 points for a pre-racial 18. If you drop it to a 16, which still ends up as a very impressive 18 after racial adjustments, that frees up 7 points. This is enough to bring your Int from a 7 to a 13.

Not only does this give you 3 skills per level instead of 1, but it also spares your allies the liability of being saddled with an imbecile who pretty much communicates only in grunts. ;)

I'd like to make an
Evangelist Cleric of Asmodeus if the Enforcers need a full on divine caster.

Congrats everyone! I'll be playing the daring champion cavalier. Stats / background are pretty much all done. Just need to actually put together the alias. Looking forward to raiding tombs with you all!

my 2 copper: not only is he far to proud to consider that he would lose to common scum, even if he wasn't too proud to consider the possibility of himself losing, I highly doubt he would ask Abby. In fact, I think he would ask just about anyone else instead of her.

If for some reason he did ask her, she would certainly deny his request for aid.

For two reasons:

1) Cheliax has other, more pressing problems where its resources are needed elsewhere (the glorious reclamation), and

2) She hates Barzillai and would probably rather he be killed by rebels.

"rule of thumb" comes to mind.

at any rate, to stay on topic, im not so much "changing" The Newt but expanding him.

one of my player characters is a gnome, and has a backstory involving a brother who is an alchemist and is another of the individuals gone missing after the night of ashes.

well, alchemists can use alter self, so little does she know that she may have already "found" her missing brother in the Newt Market....

Perhaps there is an ad hoc adjustment of -1 crime, because as of the start of book 1, a large amount of would-be pot-stirrers have been killed/captured/driven into hiding?

Take a look at pg 16. He's awakened, not an animal companion or anything. ;)

The problem with the dottari in Hells Rebels is the leadership, not the grunts. Barzillai replaced the commander and officers with a bunch of loyal Thrunie evil peops. The average, every day soldier is probably LN, with some LE and some LG (though a declining #) mixed in.

Wouldn't the simplest solution be to give her armor spikes? That makes stand still and step up usable. She could in theory switch to a "non-reach" grip, but that goes against her stated tactic of wanting to keep foes at bay.

Alternatively, if you give power attack for free like I do, you can give her improved unarmed strike for kicks or headbutts or something

I was quite excited about this adventure when I read about it. Then I noticed it was written by Richard Pett. Now I'm giddy. :)

Those who fail to learn from history....

Are doomed to send a squad of redactors to "change" history in their favor?

Student of Philosophy trait: Use Int instead of Cha on Diplomacy checks to persuade others and Bluff checks to lie. Does not effect gather information or feint in combat.

I love it on my diviner, and the flavor is awesome. You just convince someone not to fight using logic, lol.

Really looking forward to having my PC's play out this rebellion however I am kind of curious about something. At the start of this session, Barzillai has supposedly placed the city under martial law and has dottari roaming the streets and enforcing his will. However, the module doesn't state (or at least not where I can find it) whether or not they are banning the populous from possessing any weaponry on them. Is that something they are probably going to do later on down the line or is that just a given and the players have to go into the campaign with this problem key in mind?

Since it doesn't say they prohibit people from walking around with weaponry, I'll be running it as though they are allowed to have it. I would hope the players would keep in mind though, that if someone is armed to the teeth and anywhere near a "ruckus", they will probably be looked at very carefully by the authorities.

Hehe, I actually thought the same thing when I first saw it, and had to go back and check the feat. Then my next thought was "man it sucks that she takes a worthless feat just as a prereq for another feat".

However, I will point out that while CR does suck if you have 10 Dex, it actually isn't entirely worthless. It still allows her to make her one AoO while flat-footed, which can catch someone off guard. Especially given her initiative sucks and she has a reach weapon. ;)

Carter Lockhart wrote:

Unlike the caravan system (which had little interesting decisions to make aside from optimizing stats and clearly broken battle stats), this one appears promising. I have no problem with the rules being in the free handbook instead of taking up page count in module.

I agree about the caravan rules. They were useful for calculating carrying capacity, but did not make much sense for resolving combat. I just treated each wagon as a separate target in battle.

Any opinion on Nox? The only thing I can figure is that she goes to her boss, and says, "There are 6 PCs below a coffee shop, lets have at them." Any he says, "Don't bother me with little stuff, I'm planning bigger things. Stay out of my office until you find some enemy 9th level or above." I'm thinking of playing her as basically a good person who doesn't want to do her job for Mr. Evil.

To each his own, I suppose, but considering: 1) her alignment is LE, 2) she willingly traded her soul for some devilish powers, and 3) she is a personal bodyguard to a member of house thrune who also happens to be a higher up in the church of asmodeus, I'm having a hard time seeing her as anything other than an evil dirtbag who wants nothing more than to happily and loyally serve "mr. evil"

dotting, what's up brother?

who had 120 million to buy the mithril? lol just saw PDK beat me to it....

yup I know he gets opposition schools, but I was referring to the fact that school of the bomb replaces an actual school. so, if he didn't have cantrips and was still able to take an actual school (say evocation for instance) he would have 5 level 1, 4 level 2, 3 level 3. This is what he is listed as.

Since he can't actually choose a school, it should be 4/3/2. Like you said, he is pretty unlikely to actually be involved in a combat, but as I go thru the areas I kind of like to do some rough combat simulations in my head to see how his group may have handled things. ;)

Apologies if this was already asked, but I don't recall seeing it in this thread.

Is Khonnir Baine's spell selection correct? As an Arcane Bomber, he does not get Cantrips, and does not get access to an Arcane School.

At 5th level, that gives him 3/2/1, plus a bonus spell each level for his 18 int. I'm calculating 4/3/2, yet his spells prepared shows 5/4/3.

Am I missing something, or is this an error?

Thanks.

Technically speaking, ranged weapon combatants are martials. In which case you could go with a myriad of archer-builds. Personally I'd recommend a Zen Archer.

"It's your turn, what do you do?"

"I fire all the arrows!"

He's "El Rey". Give him ALL the guns.

DmRrostarr wrote:

Can't see a DM allowing this:

Barbarian finishes battle knowing he is close to gaining a level if he was victorious. He rages just as the DM hands out enough XP to gain said level and barbarian quickly announces he takes Raging Vitality before his rage ends. :)

That is basically what this works out to if you exclude the use of the belt. And is specifically not allowed because the duration of Rage does not last 24 hours, which is required to have it count towards the prerequisites for feats.

However, he wants to loophole around that by temporarily using a belt to qualify to obtain the feat. When he sells the belt he loses access to the feat, except when he rages his con would meet the level required for the feat and theoretically kick in. Except, this basically works out to using rage to qualify for the feat. Which isn't allowed. I don't think this should be allowed, which is why I've already stated I wouldn't allow it.

Yes, Claxon is reading my question correctly. Im not saying I'd try to rage right before leveling and use that to qualify to take the feat. I'm saying, can I wear a +4 con belt for 24+ hrs, then level up, then take the feat that I now DO qualify for, then ditch the belt, and then have an inactive feat (due to not qualifying anymore), that then BECOMES active when I rage and have 16 con.

Much like the aforementioned example of a Barbarian with 13 str and power attack, being str-drained to 12, and then raging to have access to power attack. he took power attack because he DID have the prereqs. Then it was inactive because he no longer met the prereqs after being drained. Then it became active again while he was raging and had over 16 str. ;)

cool, thanks for the responses guys!

If you wear the belt while taking the feat it should work while raging even without the belt because the con is high enough. But I think many GMs would freak out when you try it.

The GM is my brother, so I'd run it by him first anyhow. Just wondering what the forum people think

Items do count to allow you to pick up feats. However, if you lose the item you lose access to and benefits from the feat.

So if you buy a +4 belt, put it on for 24 hours to enable you to qualify, take the feat, then remove the belt. You have now lost the use of that feat.

Yes, I remove the belt. I have lost access to the feat when I'm not raging. Then I get in a fight and rage, bringing my Con up to 16. Does that give me the use back? That's my question. ;)

In the Skull and Shackles Campaign I am playing in, I have a character with levels of Fighter (Viking). I'm looking at Raging Vitality for him. The problem is, he only has 12 Con. I know, I know, a front-liner should have more, but it was 15 pt buy and he isn't only a front-liner. Guy wears a lot of hats.

At any rate, since Raging Vitality has a prereq of 15 Con, would I be able to take the feat? I do have 16 Con when Raging, which is the only time Raging Vit applies anyhow. Id rather throw a Cord of Stubborn Resolve on him than a +4 Con belt, so I can get some rage-cycling going if I need to, but that only puts him at 14, and I'd much rather put my ability increases into Str than Con.

Follow up question: Assuming it is as I suspect, and the answer to the previous question is a no, what about if I instead get a +4 con belt before I grab the feat? I know that as long as you are wearing it for more than 24 hrs, it counts as a "permanent" increase, and it would make him eligible to take it. But what if I wore it for 24+ hours, then took Raging Vitality when I leveled, then switched out the +4 belt for the Cord of Stubborn Resolve? I guess what the follow up question is really asking is: If I take it when I DO meet the prereqs (due to wearing +4 belt), and then lose the prereqs cause I got rid of the belt, does the now-dormant feat "kick back in" once I rage and go back to 16 Con? Whew, that was a long-winded one, and hopefully clear.

Thanks in advance for any responses. Much appreciated.