In Hell's Bright Shadow (GM Reference)


Hell's Rebels

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I'm envisioning having a whiteboard with the number on it, and then occasionally increasing it by one as births happen. ;) (In homage of the remake of Battlestar Galactica. Yes, I'm a geek... proudly so!)

Thank you for both heads ups. :) (Shame about not using the Unchained rules for the other three classes. But I can always adjust things with Hero Labs...)


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You know what would be really fun (once) have a little bell that every once in awhile you ring, when the players ask what it's for (because they always ask) just smile and say "every time it rings a Kintargan gets it's wings"

It'd be interesting to see if it rattles them :-)

If you do it too much though they will quit, so might not be worth it :-)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Tangent101 wrote:
Thank you for both heads ups. :) (Shame about not using the Unchained rules for the other three classes. But I can always adjust things with Hero Labs...)

That's kind of the point. If you prefer those Unchained classes, you can indeed adjust things... and that gives you the advantage of being able to adjust things in books all the way back to the start. If we were to adopt this, the Unchained changes would only start now and go into the future, and previous NPCs would be left out, which is kinda lame.


What would people suggests as a good 'Prequel small adventure' as something to bring players together other than,

"You all meet in a cozy street cafe..." ?

Liberty's Edge

I honestly don't think it really needs a pre-adventure - the initial setup (protest) is as good as any scenario for getting adventurers with disparate backgrounds together.

If you really need a pre-adventure adventure, maybe have each character recount where they were during the crackdown a week prior to the adventure's start?


*Nods*

Thank'e for the idea.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I love the missions in Part 2 that the PCs are supposed to undertake. I'm not great a coming up with new content and am wondering if anyone has thought about other missions to include?


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Some Other Guy wrote:
I love the missions in Part 2 that the PCs are supposed to undertake. I'm not great a coming up with new content and am wondering if anyone has thought about other missions to include?

Here's a couple of longer side missions I once ran for third level characters in Riddleport.

1. You get a request to check up on someone who hasn't been seen for a while. The person pretends the man is her uncle, but he isn't. When you track down the inn he is staying at, you find that he he has died two days ago under mysterious circumstances and there is coded documents indicating that he was spying on someone. You can also locate his body at a temple where it is waiting burial and determine that he was killed. His body and and the codes indicate who he was spying on It turns out that the man was a spy from Magnimar who was trying to track down a wizard who stole stone golem components from the golem works. The wizard has a hide away in an abandoned catacombs outside of town in seaside cliffs guarded by low level undead. He only comes into town to buy magical components. If you find him at the catacombs, you fight him and the severed parts of the golem which wiggle across the floor to attack you. If you don't find him, he succeeds in putting the golem together which several weeks later he uses it to breaking into banks and make a clean get away by walking into the ocean and back to the catacombs. If near death, the wizard will teleport away to horses a half mile away in a woods and leave town to plot against you to try to get his golem parts back. Returning the parts to the golem works gives you powerful allies.

2. A rival gnome faction wants to humiliate a local gnome thief. The thief's weakness is gambling, and if your party can team up to defeat him at the faro table, you so humiliate him and discredit him it will make him lose his position among the gnomish thief guild. (Gnomes are all about street cred.) At the gambling dean, you find that the gambling room has wards against magic. Playing against the gnome you discover that he is winning by drugging his opponents to make them easier to defeat. If you defeat him, later in the adventure he kidnaps a party member in retaliation and he holds the person captive unless he is paid a large ransom. He commands you to meet him at a barn out in the country where he is holding the person. He is so angry with you, even if you hand over the money, he will try to slit the throat of your friend right in front of you. If he gets away he becomes a reoccurring rival. Either way, you get yourself involved in gnomish politics. (Extra experience points if you know the movie/book I stole that from.)


Does the Bellflower network play any great role in later adventures? Wondering about changing aspects of the Tengu encounter to make them tie into that network, but not sure if that is going to influence the rest of the adventure.


Good question MMCJawa, I have a few players interested in halflings so I'd like to play up the Bellflower network and Laria Longroad's involvement.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

MMCJawa wrote:
Does the Bellflower network play any great role in later adventures? Wondering about changing aspects of the Tengu encounter to make them tie into that network, but not sure if that is going to influence the rest of the adventure.

Nope; while Laria has a pretty key role to play herself later on, the Bellflower Network does not. Changing the tengus into halfings and making it more of the Bellflower Network would work... although then you'd need a better reason why Laria isn't more invested in what's going on downstairs.

Grand Lodge

Quick stats note; Nox has Combat Reflexes and Stand Still, but her Dex is 10, and thus she can't qualify for these feats.

Suggested fix: Transpose Nox's Dex and Cha scores. (This doesn't *quite* make sense with the devil-bound bonuses, but it's the smallest tweak I can see to make her feats legal. With this tweak she's still a 15-point buy, just not on the standard array - working out as 15, 11, 12, 10, 14, 10.)

This changes her stats as follows:
AC 22, touch 11
Ref +3
Ranged throwing axe +6
Spell-Like Abilities (concentration +5)
Dex 13, Cha 10
Intimidate +8

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Ninjaiguana. wrote:
Quick stats note; Nox has Combat Reflexes and Stand Still, but her Dex is 10, and thus she can't qualify for these feats.

You may want to re-check the prerequisites. ^_^

(No offense meant; it's a very easy mistake to make.)

Grand Lodge

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Kalindlara wrote:
Ninjaiguana. wrote:
Quick stats note; Nox has Combat Reflexes and Stand Still, but her Dex is 10, and thus she can't qualify for these feats.

You may want to re-check the prerequisites. ^_^

(No offense meant; it's a very easy mistake to make.)

Wow, I've been playing Pathfinder since it began and I've never noticed that before! I guess it goes to show how rarely I take Combat Reflexes on my characters..

Ignore my previous post, nothing to see here. :)


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Hehe, I actually thought the same thing when I first saw it, and had to go back and check the feat. Then my next thought was "man it sucks that she takes a worthless feat just as a prereq for another feat".

However, I will point out that while CR does suck if you have 10 Dex, it actually isn't entirely worthless. It still allows her to make her one AoO while flat-footed, which can catch someone off guard. Especially given her initiative sucks and she has a reach weapon. ;)


Really looking forward to having my PC's play out this rebellion however I am kind of curious about something. At the start of this session, Barzillai has supposedly placed the city under martial law and has dottari roaming the streets and enforcing his will. However, the module doesn't state (or at least not where I can find it) whether or not they are banning the populous from possessing any weaponry on them. Is that something they are probably going to do later on down the line or is that just a given and the players have to go into the campaign with this problem key in mind?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Teksul wrote:
Really looking forward to having my PC's play out this rebellion however I am kind of curious about something. At the start of this session, Barzillai has supposedly placed the city under martial law and has dottari roaming the streets and enforcing his will. However, the module doesn't state (or at least not where I can find it) whether or not they are banning the populous from possessing any weaponry on them. Is that something they are probably going to do later on down the line or is that just a given and the players have to go into the campaign with this problem key in mind?

Since it doesn't say they prohibit people from walking around with weaponry, I'll be running it as though they are allowed to have it. I would hope the players would keep in mind though, that if someone is armed to the teeth and anywhere near a "ruckus", they will probably be looked at very carefully by the authorities.


I really liked how the city gazette was broken down this time - I usually like them but the focus on the town's industrial side gave an idea why the town is here, as well as the sections the adventurers will end up with interacting/burning down/looting and blaming on Thrune. Made it easier to feel the city as an entity (which is probably a good feeling to have since city DOES end up an entity!)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Teksul wrote:
Really looking forward to having my PC's play out this rebellion however I am kind of curious about something. At the start of this session, Barzillai has supposedly placed the city under martial law and has dottari roaming the streets and enforcing his will. However, the module doesn't state (or at least not where I can find it) whether or not they are banning the populous from possessing any weaponry on them. Is that something they are probably going to do later on down the line or is that just a given and the players have to go into the campaign with this problem key in mind?

There's no additional restriction against openly wearing weapons. Barzillai is walking a thin line where he's trying to establish total control without being TOO over the top; whether or not that's a good idea for him or not remains to be seen, but certainly, having taken out the top rebel factions in a swift move on the Night of Ashes, he's really not all that concerned about a revolution. Arrogance is one of his flaws.

From a game standpoint, weapons and armor are key to the experience of the game, and just as I'm hesitant to do an AP where the entire thing is set in the dark (thus preventing wizards from studying their spells) or a game where no animals are allowed (say goodbye to familiars and animal companions and mounts), I didn't want to do a game that prevented folks from playing the game that they know and love.

That said... if a PC walks down the street brandishing weapons, you're absolutely within the rights of the story to have a group of dottari stop the PC and ask them why they're walking around so well-armored, especially "Now that the city has a strong leader for the first time in decades."

And if the PCs insist on killing guards and the like over and over... that's a good time to start raising the Silver Raven's Notoriety...


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

1) Not surprisingly, one of our first level PCs needs to see a healer to get a disease
removed. I suspect they'll balk at the church of Shelyn's prices. I intend to ignore any
Notoriety increase from another church since there's currently no score to increase.

However, I'm curious as to what would be required to convince the high priest of Shelyn
that the PCs "oppose Thrune"? A good diplomacy check might work, but I get the feeling
that it's supposed to happen "at the end of the first adventure"... In this case, actions
are meant to speak louder than words.

2) Does Rexus Victocora's courtier’s outfit count as "fine embroidered clothing" as
mentioned in Proclamation the Fourth. If so, what would it take for an exception to be
awarded or purchased?

3) I found the background information for Rexus Victocora and Laria Longroad interesting.
How might the information be passed along to the players/PCs? I've considered having our
cleric of Milani make a heal check to recognize a few anatomical characteristics of their
new friend.

4) Even if mission 4 takes 7-10 days, the PCs could finish the "Events" and "Missions"
weeks before the documents get decoded.
I'm worried that the players might end a book with the rebellion not having had enough
weeks to grow sufficiently.

How should the PCs be slowed down? The best idea I've thought of is to just have them lay
low for a few days between missions.

5) If a PC were to try to help decode the documents, would the PC have time to go out with
the party or would it take all the PC's time?

---

On page 32, there is the phrase: "as indicated on the map of Kintargo on page 64".

In this case, I found the map on the inside of the front cover to be much more useful.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Regarding #3: as a young noble, Rexus wasn't exactly an unknown - he was described as "fiery and exuberant", and the news "scandalized" the family's social circle.

Knowledge (nobility) or a higher-DC (local) would be good ways for PCs to put things together, especially if any have noble ties themselves.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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unixgit wrote:

1) Not surprisingly, one of our first level PCs needs to see a healer to get a disease

removed. I suspect they'll balk at the church of Shelyn's prices. I intend to ignore any
Notoriety increase from another church since there's currently no score to increase.

However, I'm curious as to what would be required to convince the high priest of Shelyn
that the PCs "oppose Thrune"? A good diplomacy check might work, but I get the feeling
that it's supposed to happen "at the end of the first adventure"... In this case, actions
are meant to speak louder than words.

2) Does Rexus Victocora's courtier’s outfit count as "fine embroidered clothing" as
mentioned in Proclamation the Fourth. If so, what would it take for an exception to be
awarded or purchased?

3) I found the background information for Rexus Victocora and Laria Longroad interesting.
How might the information be passed along to the players/PCs? I've considered having our
cleric of Milani make a heal check to recognize a few anatomical characteristics of their
new friend.

4) Even if mission 4 takes 7-10 days, the PCs could finish the "Events" and "Missions"
weeks before the documents get decoded.
I'm worried that the players might end a book with the rebellion not having had enough
weeks to grow sufficiently.

How should the PCs be slowed down? The best idea I've thought of is to just have them lay
low for a few days between missions.

5) If a PC were to try to help decode the documents, would the PC have time to go out with
the party or would it take all the PC's time?

---

On page 32, there is the phrase: "as indicated on the map of Kintargo on page 64".

In this case, I found the map on the inside of the front cover to be much more useful.

Answers!

1) That's left to you, really, but it should be something the PCs work for. They should "earn" it. One way to handle it is to tie it to the progress of their rebellion; once the Silver Ravens hit rank 5 (or whatever rank you select), then the high priest is convinced. That said, if there is an actual cleric or devout worshiper of Shelyn in the party, then letting the high priest be convinced early (assuming the Shelyn worshiping PC roleplays well, or at the very least impresses him with a Diplomacy or a Knowledge [religion] check) is a nice way to let the PCs feel like their choices in character matter.

2) As written, it doesn't count as "fine embroidered clothing," but if you wanted it to count, that'd be fine. This is one way that the PCs are meant to get annoyed at Barzillai Thrune, though, so NOT awarding a PC or an ally the right to wear the clothes is more important than letting them earn it. "Exceptions can be awarded or purchased at the city's discretion" is meant to imply that only those who are perceived as allies to Thrune can get the exception. If a PC or allied NPC wanted that exception... I'd say it'd require some strong roleplaying, a few DC 20 Diplomacy checks, and then a payment of gold equal to the character's level on table 12–5 in the Core Rulebook (so at 1st level, it'd cost 260 gp, or 550 gp at 2nd level, and so on); it should be outlandishly expensive.

3) The best way to pass that information on is via roleplay, where the PCs interact with the NPCs.

4) If your players rush through the adventure and finish things well before the documents are decoded, then feel free to have Rexus just finish decoding them once they "run out of things to do." The adventure isn't intended to be a rush—and particularly at low levels, PCs will need time to rest and recover. Furthermore, the PCs should want to build up their rebellion a bit, and that takes time too. That all said, if the PCs end the adventure and their rebellion isn't at rank 5... that's fine. They can keep going into the next adventure—there are no "rebellion rank minimums" that must be met, but if they don't take the time to stop and build the rebellion up, they may find that later adventures are more difficult in some cases. One option is to say that between adventures as published, the PCs take a month or two off—then roll up those weeks of Rebellion Activities all at once if your players prefer to "rush" through the encounters. Obviously the pace and speed at which any one group prefers to play through in-game will vary from table to table, in any event.

5) Whoever is focusing on decoding the documents can't go out adventuring, because the documents should feel like work to figure out. Of course, if a PC wants to work on them, that's a great excuse to have the other PCs do downtime events. From a metagame standpoint, decoding the documents is something that triggers Rexus's desire to follow up on what happened to his mother; it's a throttle, in other words, to keep the PCs from going to Hocum's Fantasmagorium until they're 3rd level.

And yes... we moved the tooth fairy map info to the inside front cover late in the game when we decided that duplicating all the front inside cover info on the gazetteer map cluttered it up too much.


I've a potential player who wants to play a Hellknight Armiger. The Player's Guide says that its the GM's discretion about which order is playable, or something to that effect. Skimming the first book, I guess that Rack is not playable and Torrent is playable. How about the other orders?

thanks

Liberty's Edge

There may be a disconnect in the backstory on Rexus's parents.

Spoilers:

They were presumed killed when their estate burned down, and this is confirmed in the text for area E8 where we find that their charred corpses were brought from the estate and zombified.

Then in area F7 we find soul tomes of archivists who were "captured, tortured, and eventually killed (and in some cases animated into zombies)"... including Rexus's parents.

Were they killed in the fire or captured and tortured to death? If killed in the fire, then where did the soul tomes come from? Can a Scrivenite make a soul tome of the original person from their zombie?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Not sure there's a need for spoilers, as this is the GM thread, but in the interest of consistency...

Spoiler:

I'd need to reread that section, but if there is a disconnect, I'd solve it by saying that none of the bodies found in the ruins of the Victocora estate had the Victocora signet ring, so Rexus holds out hope that they're still alive and at the museum. In truth, during the Night of Ashes, Asmodean inquisitors stormed the estate and took both of his parents prisoner, putting the estate to the torch as they left. They tortured them to extract information on where the Irori insurrectionists were holed up, and used the scrivenite to extract their souls into a soul tome. Their bodies were then used to make zombie guards for the museum.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Jubal Breakbottle wrote:

I've a potential player who wants to play a Hellknight Armiger. The Player's Guide says that its the GM's discretion about which order is playable, or something to that effect. Skimming the first book, I guess that Rack is not playable and Torrent is playable. How about the other orders?

thanks

This AP works best if you play a Hellknight of the Torrent. It won't really work at all if you play a Hellknight of the Rack. If you want to assume that Hell's Vengeance is taking place in the background (which this AP does), then Hellkngiht of the Godclaw won't really be appropriate either.

In fact, now that I think of it... it'd be weird and awkward to play ANY non-Torrent Hellknight in this adventure. They're forces for law, and this AP is about breaking the law of the land.

If your player really wants to play a Hellknight, in what is essentially a chaotic-good themed campaign... my advice is to wait at least until you get the 2nd adventure. That's the one that has the most information about the Hellknights of the Torrent and what their role in the AP is, and you'll be able to incorporate a PC Torrent armiger into the plot in some interesting ways (short version—that PC will need to be in hiding for the first adventure and some of the 2nd).

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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CBDunkerson wrote:

There may be a disconnect in the backstory on Rexus's parents.

Spoiler:
They were presumed killed when their estate burned down, and this is confirmed in the text for area E8 where we find that their charred corpses were brought from the estate and zombified.
Then in area F7 we find soul tomes of archivists who were "captured, tortured, and eventually killed (and in some cases animated into zombies)"... including Rexus's parents.

Were they killed in the fire or captured and tortured to death? If killed in the fire, then where did the soul tomes come from? Can a Scrivenite make a soul tome of the original person from their zombie?

This is a GM advice thread, so I'm throwing out the spoiler tags.

Most folks in Kintargo assume that they perished in the fire, and that's certainly what Thrune would prefer folks to believe.

There were other archivists elsewhere in the city, particularly in the monastery when the Asmodeans invaded. They didn't die in the fire; they were tortured to death and/or soul tomed. A scrivinite can't soul tome a dead person, but they can soul tome an unconscious person... such as a badly burned, near death person dragged from a fire by the arsonist who wasn't quite satisfied with the amount of pain he'd inflicted yet...

Dark Archive

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As I play with a power gaming group, i am adding a minor modification to the notoriety rules.

I am not a total d**k, I told the players that being a weird race would have penalties before they made characters.... or "If you are the only ifrit in town, you will be easy to spot"

Any unusual races not listed in the players guide get +1 notoriety gain each. Any unusual race gains a minimum notoriety score of 10 each.

So in my group i'm expecting them to have +5 per gain and minimum 50 score it should keep things interesting.

As you do not have specific things mentioned yet for 100 notoriety which i expect them to murder hobo to in short order i do have a plan for that too...


Lixxy wrote:

As I play with a power gaming group, i am adding a minor modification to the notoriety rules.

I am not a total d**k, I told the players that being a weird race would have penalties before they made characters.... or "If you are the only ifrit in town, you will be easy to spot"

Any unusual races not listed in the players guide get +1 notoriety gain each. Any unusual race gains a minimum notoriety score of 10 each.

So in my group i'm expecting them to have +5 per gain and minimum 50 score it should keep things interesting.

As you do not have specific things mentioned yet for 100 notoriety which i expect them to murder hobo to in short order i do have a plan for that too...

In fairness I'd give Tieflings a pass. They are the third most populous race in kintargo I believe. And allow a successful disguise check to appear as another race to negate the extra gain. But sounds a reasonable way to adjust for odd races (away from book so I can't check how mean those numbers are)

Silver Crusade

I just straight up told my players they had to be core race, tiefling, or tengu. I had one player ticked that he couldn't be a goblin (no power gaming---he just likes goblins). I'm letting him be a tiefling from a noble house, so he can at least have an atypical backstory.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Eliandra Giltessan wrote:
I just straight up told my players they had to be core race, tiefling, or tengu. I had one player ticked that he couldn't be a goblin (no power gaming---he just likes goblins). I'm letting him be a tiefling from a noble house, so he can at least have an atypical backstory.

I did the same thing. Tieflings and Tengu are somewhat common in Cheliax.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Having unusual races tick up notoriety is a brilliant idea. And absolutely tengus and tieflings should not count as "unusual" in Kintargo.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This actually brings up a question I had - the Kintargo gazetteer doesn't list tengu specifically in the race breakout in the stat block. I know you guys don't list everything in that block, but I couldn't find anything in the text at all that talked about what sort of community they have in the city. Is this forthcoming in a future installment?

Edit: I'm an idiot. Just read about the River Talons and the guy that owns the War Cage. Looks like there's a small clutch of tengu in the city, though most people consider them to be thieves and robbers. More info to come in issue #100. More reason to look forward to that issue!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Misroi wrote:

This actually brings up a question I had - the Kintargo gazetteer doesn't list tengu specifically in the race breakout in the stat block. I know you guys don't list everything in that block, but I couldn't find anything in the text at all that talked about what sort of community they have in the city. Is this forthcoming in a future installment?

Edit: I'm an idiot. Just read about the River Talons and the guy that owns the War Cage. Looks like there's a small clutch of tengu in the city, though most people consider them to be thieves and robbers. More info to come in issue #100. More reason to look forward to that issue!

Yup. There's a bit more about a tengu gang in the 4th adventure, but that's about it as far as tengus are concerned. There's not actually a LOT of tengus in Kintargo, frankly, but they've got a pretty high visibility so one more wouldn't be nearly as out of place as, say, a duergar or a wayang or a catfolk.

And I'm still waiting for folks to notice the easter eggs associated with the tengu who owns the War Cage. There's at least THREE easter eggs in there, in fact...


Chuko was a character in a campaign, can't remember whose.

Pretty sure there's a story to go with the magic Lucerne Hammer.

Same with his dislike of being called a thief.

Am I right :-)

Also if you could elaborate I'll be eternally grateful and sign away all creative rights to Tammy the Lich if you did.

But if you want to keep it to yourself for now I also understand, I'm still happy I was able to finally subscribe after all these years :-)


Also I'm pretty sure the Kintargo Gazetteer has more Easter eggs then an Easter basket, as well it should :-)

Great job on the adventure path so far, one of your best yet.

Silver Crusade

I've got a guy playing a tengu who frequents the same area as the gang. Would he know about the gang, or are they super secret? Might they have tried to recruit him?

I know, I know. I should wait for all books to begin running. But... So good. And I've warned my players of the dangers.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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captain yesterday wrote:

Chuko was a character in a campaign, can't remember whose.

Pretty sure there's a story to go with the magic Lucerne Hammer.

Same with his dislike of being called a thief.

Am I right :-)

Also if you could elaborate I'll be eternally grateful and sign away all creative rights to Tammy the Lich if you did.

But if you want to keep it to yourself for now I also understand, I'm still happy I was able to finally subscribe after all these years :-)

Yup. Chuko was in fact my PC in an Eberron game Jason Bulmahn ran. He did end up with a Lucerne hammer at one point, and while he didn't mind being called a thief, he was a klepto. Also, he was fond of making "WARK" sounds. Hence the name of his shop. The "War Cage." Which when you say it fast, sounds like "WARKage."

Takes a deep bow.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Eliandra Giltessan wrote:

I've got a guy playing a tengu who frequents the same area as the gang. Would he know about the gang, or are they super secret? Might they have tried to recruit him?

I know, I know. I should wait for all books to begin running. But... So good. And I've warned my players of the dangers.

There's a bit more info in #100 about the River Talons, but not much. They're a pretty close-knit group that aren't all that nice—they're kinda thugs and muggers mostly. It's unlikely they'd want your PC tengu in their club unless he was NOT good aligned, NOT lawful aligned, and NOT tied to another group (such as the Silver Ravens, or the PCs). That said, setting them up as a group the PC always wanted to join but was never allowed to join so that the PC might develop some feelings of resentment or bitterness or anger toward them would work.

Silver Crusade

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Thanks! That's very helpful. I don't see him wanting to join them, but he would likely be aware of them.

Grand Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:
Jubal Breakbottle wrote:

I've a potential player who wants to play a Hellknight Armiger. The Player's Guide says that its the GM's discretion about which order is playable, or something to that effect. Skimming the first book, I guess that Rack is not playable and Torrent is playable. How about the other orders?

thanks

This AP works best if you play a Hellknight of the Torrent. It won't really work at all if you play a Hellknight of the Rack. If you want to assume that Hell's Vengeance is taking place in the background (which this AP does), then Hellkngiht of the Godclaw won't really be appropriate either.

In fact, now that I think of it... it'd be weird and awkward to play ANY non-Torrent Hellknight in this adventure. They're forces for law, and this AP is about breaking the law of the land.

Don't forget there are two minor, lesser known Hellknight orders that could possibly work (particularly since so little has been written about them to contradict anything).

One is the Order of the Scar, which is the smallest order and primarily hunts assassins. The former Lord Mayor, Jilia Bainulus, was vanished under fairly suspicious circumstances and was replaced by Barzillai Thrune. You could play a grim swashbuckler or slayer armiger of the Order of the Scar who is investigating the potential death of the previous Lord Mayor and the potentially unlawful assumption of power by the current Lord Mayor. This would also give you some interesting parallels to the original foundation of the Hellknights (Daidian Ruel and the other original Hellknights spent quite a bit of time technically working on the "wrong side of the law" early on).

Another is the Order of the Pike, which is my usual go-to for good Hellknight PCs. They're described simply as monster hunters. With Kintargo undergoing political upheaval and the regular authorities otherwise occupied, there's a good chance that urban monsters will take advantage of the chaos and prey on the local population. An Order of the Pike Hellknight may not care so much about the rebellion itself, but will be focused on protecting the population now that the government itself can't.


Is it just me or do the Asmodean Redactors feel like really weak opponents? Especially when they're meant to come into play when PCs are 3rd level? +1/+2 atks feel like I'll be lucky to even place 1 hit before the PCs have finished the fight. And 14 AC is very easy to hit.

Maybe I'm just out of touch with low-level play. But I'm very tempted to use the Unchained version to toughen it up, or something else to make them a bit more threatening. Almost want to take stats to point-buy instead of standard array, as standard array really doesn't fit the MAD of the monk.

Let's see. 15-pt buy would give:
Str 14
Dex 14 (add human bonus to get this to 16)
Con 10 (makes sense for librarians to be slightly on the weaker con side)
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 8

Swap out Iron Will for Weapon Finesse.
Benefit: +2 AC, +1 atk, +1 Init, +1 Ref, +1 CMD, +1 Perception, +1 Stunning fist DC.
Negative: -1 Hp (current HP 12 with FC bonus, sufficient), -1 Fort, -1 Will.

Moderately more challenging (even more if bumped up to UC version), and I think the losses are acceptable (12 HP, +2 Fort and +4 will are very decent for a CR 1/2 creature). A bit more appropriate for a level 3 party that has a good option to retreat and regroup.

Or maybe I'm just a mean GM.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Carter Lockhart wrote:

Is it just me or do the Asmodean Redactors feel like really weak opponents? Especially when they're meant to come into play when PCs are 3rd level? +1/+2 atks feel like I'll be lucky to even place 1 hit before the PCs have finished the fight. And 14 AC is very easy to hit.

Maybe I'm just out of touch with low-level play. But I'm very tempted to use the Unchained version to toughen it up, or something else to make them a bit more threatening. Almost want to take stats to point-buy instead of standard array, as standard array really doesn't fit the MAD of the monk.

Let's see. 15-pt buy would give:
Str 14
Dex 14 (add human bonus to get this to 16)
Con 10 (makes sense for librarians to be slightly on the weaker con side)
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 8

Swap out Iron Will for Weapon Finesse.
Benefit: +2 AC, +1 atk, +1 Init, +1 Ref, +1 CMD, +1 Perception, +1 Stunning fist DC.
Negative: -1 Hp (current HP 12 with FC bonus, sufficient), -1 Fort, -1 Will.

Moderately more challenging (even more if bumped up to UC version), and I think the losses are acceptable (12 HP, +2 Fort and +4 will are very decent for a CR 1/2 creature). A bit more appropriate for a level 3 party that has a good option to retreat and regroup.

Or maybe I'm just a mean GM.

Not every fight is intended to be one that the PCs are only just barely able to win. There are already a few encounters at the end of the adventure that are going to be really tough; Nox in particular, with her regeneration, might really stress out the PCs. The redactors are meant to be individually rather weak—this is really the first chance the PCs will have to "mow through" a bunch of Asmodeans, and after putting up with them for the adventure, being able to do that at the end of this one should be pretty cathartic for the players.

That also said, they're not dumb, the redactors. Part of the assumption is that they don't just sit in their rooms waiting to be attacked, but instead are reactive—if they hear or see combat in a nearby room, they'll prepare or might even come to join a fight already in progress. Even wimps can be a big deal if they augment an already tough fight.

Of course, you know your group and their preferences and skills better than I... but think twice before you take away a chance for the PCs to feel like they've grown more powerful over the course of the adventure.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

My player's just engaged Scarplume in combat. She nearly wiped them out due to their poor planning. They found out she was a Strix by subduing some of the Tieflings and intimidating them, but did nothing to prepare for her ability to fly. They then proceeded to stay on the roof while she blasted them. One of the characters was killed, and two more went unconscious prior to a lucky shot bringing her down.

Is this just an absurdly difficult encounter? Or should I chalk it up to the player's not making good decisions?


Some Other Guy wrote:

My player's just engaged Scarplume in combat. She nearly wiped them out due to their poor planning. They found out she was a Strix by subduing some of the Tieflings and intimidating them, but did nothing to prepare for her ability to fly. They then proceeded to stay on the roof while she blasted them. One of the characters was killed, and two more went unconscious prior to a lucky shot bringing her down.

Is this just an absurdly difficult encounter? Or should I chalk it up to the player's not making good decisions?

She does good damage. But if the PCs just sit there and take it, did mostly sounds like it on them. If they're gonna stand out in the open and get wailed on, really they're just banging their heads against a brick wall. Adapt or die sounds like a good credo to me.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

One of my player's has asked to use his downtime to research House Thrune. This was prompted by seeing the hell hound at the protest. With all the redactions done to Chelish history, I'm having trouble coming up with what information should or should not be available. Does any have any recommendations?

Liberty's Edge Assistant Developer

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unixgit wrote:
3) I found the background information for Rexus Victocora and Laria Longroad interesting. How might the information be passed along to the players/PCs? I've considered having our cleric of Milani make a heal check to recognize a few anatomical charactristics of their new friend.

Absolutely do not make this some kind of surprise reveal or mystery the PCs have to "solve" with skill checks. If a PC also comes from a noble family, or is a fellow student at the Alabaster Academy, they've probably heard about Rexus's past. If they haven't, Rexus isn't shy or ashamed of it and will probably mention some aspect of it in passing so long as the PCs aren't cruel to him.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I would like some insight on Rexus' sense of morality. My players have captured Blosodriette after she surrendered. She begged them to destroy the contract. They are discussing whether they should A) end her existence by killing her or B) destroying the contract in exchange for her aid in the rebellion. They want Rexus to vote on this as he is one of the officers for the Silver Ravens but I do not know how he might feel about the idea. Since he has no ranks in knowledge planes, I assume he knows very little about devils.


The way I've been running Rexus is that he doesn't approve of bloodshed in anyway whatsoever, but he won't object to defending himself in battle, or throwing non-lethal spells around (I plan on keeping the idea of Color spray as he levels if he stays with the party, focusing on spells that won't directly harm an opponent, but will still end a fight quickly.)

If he has no ranks in Kn: Planes, then killing the imp would be something he wouldn't approve of. In my game at least.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Am, I alone in having trouble interpreting this paragraph from page 20?

"Now that Chough has killed the sisters’ only guide and contact in Kintargo, Korva Fushi has exiled the angry corby sibling to this bunk area, where she spent the past few days throwing intermittent temper tantrums. If Chough hears the PCs battling the alligator, she watches from the shadows, delighted by the violence, but if they win, it takes her 2 rounds to register that Chough is dead. She then flies into a rage and attacks, fighting to the death."

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