curiositymeow's page

curiositymeow wrote:

"sometimes you are not allowed to even attempt a skill check if you proficiency level is not high enough."

Though, out of curiosity, when do situations like above appear? Is it a GM decision or a rule thing?

If you look at, for example, Medicine, you'll see that anyone can Administer First Aid but only those Trained in the skill can Treat Disease, Poison, or Wounds.

Many skills have some Trained actions, but others may be specified in a published adventure or designated by the GM.

You also have a PC who is Expert in a skill for the party to use the Follow the Expert exploration activity.

Hazards also tend to be gated by proficiency level: for instance, a PC must be Legendary in Thievery to Disable an armageddon orb or Expert in Survival to remove yellow mold.

Ahh. Okay. This makes sense. Good to know. Ty again! :)

curiositymeow wrote:

Kendaan wrote:

Pathbuilder 2 is a great app on Android to get a grasp on character creation just to add on the previous good advice.

Ugh. Assuming this is android only?

I have the misfortune of using an apple. It's a good idea though. I'll search the apple/pc market for something compatible.

I found something a while back called PCgen... anybody familiar? It seems a bit comprehensive but workable. *fingers crossed*

Oh man, I haven't thought about PC Gen in so long. I ditched it when I started using hero lab, but it served it's purpose for a while. Didn't know they had a PF2 package, or that they were still around.

Back in the day, PC Gen was solid for a free software, but not as good as what you paid for. Now Pathbuilder beats most of the paid programs for what it actually does. (Most of the paid programs do others things too, but Pathbuilder is still the best for building that I've tried.)

Oh, I actually don't know if they have a pf2 version. I saw when I used it once they had a bunch of versions, some not even PF. Just sort of assumed it would have it. If it's that outdated, I guess they wouldn't?

Some answers from my end even if most points have already been answered:

Ad 1) The prof box is there to note down your proficiency bonus (proficiency level + character level). Some feats make use of this value instead of your total skill bonus. Take note that all 3 figures may be important at some point. Usually you will roll your checks against a set difficulty class (DC) using your total skill bonus. However sometimes you may only use your proficiency bonus, e.g. while using the Assurance skill feat. And you need to keep in mind your overall proficiency level (t/e/m/l) because sometimes you are not allowed to even attempt a skill check if you proficiency level is not high enough.

Thanks for the info! Happy to give it a read even if some of it already mentioned. Much appreciated. :)

"sometimes you are not allowed to even attempt a skill check if you proficiency level is not high enough."
Though, out of curiosity, when do situations like above appear? Is it a GM decision or a rule thing?

1d6 Fall Damage wrote:

8. I'd try the Pathfinder Wiki.

+1 to using the wiki, and here is a direct link.

This is PERFECT. Thanks for link! :)

Pathbuilder 2 is a great app on Android to get a grasp on character creation just to add on the previous good advice.

Ugh. Assuming this is android only?

I have the misfortune of using an apple. It's a good idea though. I'll search the apple/pc market for something compatible.

I found something a while back called PCgen... anybody familiar? It seems a bit comprehensive but workable. *fingers crossed*

First of all, welcome to second edition.

I'll do my best to answer your questions one by one but I'm probably going to go in circles a bit.

1. Yep, proficiency is like that, and skills also get proficiency rather than ranks/points (I am assuming you're coming from pf1 or 3.5 or some other similar RPG because you use the term points). The 'Prof' box is where you write your proficiency bonus (level + 2, 4, 6, or 8) so you can add up the whole line.

2. You don't really put points in anything. You don't get points every level, instead everything you're proficient in increases by 1. Which leads into...

3. Yeah, every other level you can increase your proficiency one of your skills. You can pick an untrained skill and make it trained or you can increase something you're already trained (or expert or master) in up a step. Yes, this does mean becoming trained in a skill while you're, say, level 13 means you suddenly get a +15 to that skill. You become just as good in it as a skill you became trained in at level 1.

4. You add +2 to your key ability score at level 1. It also means your Class DC uses that ability score, but that is more important for martials to know since casters rarely use it.

5. The 'Special' is the thing your Ancestry gives you at the bottom of the sidebar. Darkvision for a Dwarf, Keen Eyes for a Halfling, etc. Humans get nothing but they make up for it elsewhere.

6. You have slots for Feats and you get to pick them as you want. Features, on the other hand, are given to you don't have (as much) choice in them. For a cleric, Divine Font is a feature and Healing Hands is a feat.

7. Your ancestry will tell you how many languages you get (note the errata corrects how many humans should get), which is influenced by your Intelligence. There is no feat that gives you extra languages when you increase it, but you can learn additional languages by taking the Multilingual skill feat (which is a Society skill feat).

8. I'd try the Pathfinder Wiki.

Hope this helped. I'm happy to...

Sadly, I'm technically coming from pf1, but I only played a little bit. I'm basically a new player... but it's coming together! Thank you for these answers (and the explanation post too). This is 100% what I needed to free myself of the confusion cloud. As for Wiki, thanks! I saw the link below, too, so thank you as well, Joana.

Also, thanks in advance. Ended a little abruptly.

I've been making a character as I read through the Core Rulebook for 2nd edition and I'm a little confused on the skills. Specifically proficiency. A couple other things too, actually.

Question 1:
To my understanding, proficiency is (+2 trained/+4 expert/+6 master/+8 legendary). When it concerns the boxes that say "prof" on the character sheet, am I supposed to mark them as: (proficiency + current lvl)? Even for "Skills"?

Question 2:
Any time I want to put a point into a new skill, do I check off the "trained" box in proficiency? I got a little mixed up between some parts of the book. (In hindsight this seems like an obvious yes, but I want to be sure.)

Question 3:
I'm looking at clerics in the class pages, and it says "Skill Increase" is at third level and every two levels thereafter. Is it a single point per milestone bc of proficiency? If more, how do you determine the number of skills you receive in a given level?

Question 4:
On "Key Abilities", a cleric (for example) has a Wisdom boost. Is this just a +1 to Wisdom?

Question 5:
On the feat page of the character sheet, there's a 1st level "special" feat. What is this?

Question 6:
What's the difference between a "feature" feat and a normal feat?

Question 7:
I see "languages" has been removed as a skill. Is this now "social"?

Unrelated Question 8:
I came to the birthplace and nationality question and had no idea really what to pencil in. I have the advanced race book, and I looked on the Archives of Nethys site, but I'm looking for something that details the human races and cities. Is there a book that goes in depth for human nationalities? Or are these details only woven through location books?

curiositymeow wrote:

What's the difference between version 2 and 1 (and where should I start)?

Like most here, my recommendation is to start with second edition. Everything is much more streamlined, making it far easier to learn, play, and run compared to first edition.

curiositymeow wrote:

Are there any books or planners I can purchase that do a thorough dive into running a campaign from a DM perspective?

There's probably any number of books out there that speak on the (system-neutral) subject of running campaigns, but I don't know any that have a wide consensus of being a must read. To start, I'd just recommend giving a thorough look through the Core Rulebook and the first chapter of the Gamemastery Guide (other chapters are optional and nice, but less important while just starting out as a GM). I'd also recommend Archives of Nethys for an online source where you can look up rules and content for PF2.

And if you don't mind the self-plug and would use a computer while running a game, I just finished my PF2 GM Sheet. This originally started as a project way back to make it easier for myself to reference rules and keep track of things when running a game - which I later improved and shared with people during the Playtest, and now for 2nd edition.

curiositymeow wrote:

Is there a campaign that's friendlier to newer players (aside from the one in beginner box)?

CrystalSeas already posted a good list of campaigns with links, so I would just stress the following. You want campaigns which start at level one rather than trying to run higher levels right off the bat. I'd also recommend that you focus on more, shorter campaigns at first rather than trying to bite off something long and epic from the start....

Ooo thank you for the feedback and the GM sheet planner thing. Very comprehensive. I'll have to give it a more in-depth look over when I start my planning. That's perfect. :)

I would say don't be so afraid of playing online, there's games on r20 and FG that are for new players, both new to the system and new to table top as a whole. Won't get better if you don't try.

Ahhh. I wish I could go that far, but I want a hobby that takes me from my computer. I'm an in-person person. I want the social gathering and food. The shared snacking is my favorite part!

Yes, the advice forum is a good place to ask your question.

I had the good fortune to start gamemastering at my friendly local game store (FLGS). In 2011 my wife began a Pathfinder 1st Edition campaign at The Family Game Store in Savage, Maryland (now 3 Gear Games). The store offered a table and advertising that a game was starting up. In 2012, she decided that she was too sick to continue running the game, so I took over as GM. I finished Rise of the Runelords and Jade Regent adventure paths. My wife and I retired to Freeville, New York, and began Iron Gods among my housemates and one of their local friends. I recruited a friend from church in 2018 for the Pathfinder 2nd Edition Playtest. I recruited another friend from church in 2019 for my current Ironfang Invasion campaign, converted from PF1 to PF2. One month ago, we moved the Ironfang Invasion online using the free basic Roll20, so my elder daughter in Seattle joined as a player, too.

The Beginner Box is a good introduction for players who have not played Pathfinder or Dungeons & Dragons before. I used it once, Beginner Box in Sunday School, and managed to fit explaining the pregenerated character sheets and two tiny encounters into a 45-minute activity period.

Pathfinder 2nd Edition's rules are easier for gameplay, but the Pathfinder 2nd Edition Beginner Box won't be available until November 2020. You would have to convert the PF1 Beginner Box.

I have discovered with my Ironfang Invasion conversion that conversion is easy if the creatures or items are already in the PF2 Bestiary or Core Rulebook or Gamemastery Guide and too hard for a beginner GM if not. The big problem with converting the PF1 Beginner Box would be losing the pregenerated characters. Fortunately, the same characters have been released as a free Community Use download for PF2:...

Ah, perfect.

I'm not so worried on on the wait. One of my friends is moving out to my area and it's gonna be a couple months anyway. In the mean time, I'll practice with some of the level one scenarios or something. Plus videos. Lots of youtube videos. I tried to look into some of the online gaming platforms but I'm an in-person person. LOL... I need to get away from my computer screen as it is.

Hopefully I can find a local community. There are gaming/comic stores in my nearest city. Fingers crossed!

There's a lot of great advice here on running a Pathfinder game & finding resources as a DM, so I won't rehash everything already listed, but...

If you're looking at recruiting a group of potential roleplayers, I've found that board game nights can be an excellent way to test out potential gamers without being too heavily committed.

I recommend trying some cooperative board games - games where everyone is working together against the board. That's a really easy way to see how people react to that cooperative dynamic - which is important in tabletop RPGs.

A lot of cooperative games also have a side benefit of including mechanics similar to pen & paper RPGs - such as leveling up & improving stats or gear. Cooperative games also usually have strong narrative or thematic elements, which can help you figure out who enjoys those kinds of stories.

As someone who has been storytelling Pathfinder since the Beta-Test of 1st Edition, I will say:

You want to play Pathfinder 2nd Edition! I love 1st Edition, but 2nd Edition is the superior product - and its early enough in the games life cycle that its easy to get in now.

Great idea! I could totally do a board game night. It's a fair point. They might not like what I like. And a very smooth way to gradually have them hang out for hours playing pathfinder. *evil chuckle* Excellent.

I'll definitely ybe going with 2nd edition. It seems to be the consensus. Thanks for responding :)

Also, once the quarantine in your area is over you might find it worth your while to search for Pathfinder Society in your area. They should be used to people who are new to the game, and it’s easier to slip in and out as schedules demand. Plus it should be much easier to play with strangers since the setting is specifically about that. There’s some variation in all that due to people of course but in general. This also serves two other goals. One, you get a chance to play even while you GM. And two if you use the Society scenarios to run your home game then you can get a chance to play through them first, which is a good way to improve your running of them. Just a suggestion though.

PF2 is a good system to learn in, I could suggest some others like Savage Worlds too. PF1 isn’t bad, though it’s a bit of a rougher start for people just learning. If you go system hunting I’d avoid anything too rules light like vampire or fate, they require a lot more GM calls during running, which takes a lot more energy and focus from what you’re otherwise still learning the skills of. I’d also avoid anything too crunchy since the more rules you need to learn before you really start to play the less your likely to enjoy.

Excellent advice, thank you. :)

One other tidbit worth mentioning: Depending on how quickly you were thinking of getting started, it might be worth picking up the forthcoming PF2 Beginner's Box:

PF2 Beginner's Box

It looks like an ideal resource for those taking the plunge into PF2.

Oh, that's perfect. Thanks for the link. :)

Resources

The best (and official) web resource for reference is Archives of Nethys http://2e.aonprd.com/

I would also recommend the Demo Adventure Torment and Legacy https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgx7?Pathfinder-Second-Edition-De mo-Adventure
And the Pre-generated characters https://paizo.com/products/btq01zt5?Community-Use-Package-PF2E-Iconics-Preg enerated-Characters

For some video learning the following might help

Paizo Countdown to #Pathfinder2E - "Building your Character" w/ Mark Seifter https://youtu.be/WrPyhppm-Ag
Paizo Countdown to #Pathfinder2E - "Playing the Game" w/ Logan Bonner https://youtu.be/FgiX9QY00TQ

And Maybe from other reviewers
Pathfinder 2e Basics: Fast Start & Introduction | How to Play Pathfinder 2e | Taking20 https://youtu.be/sP1HIWyv8DI
Combat Basics in Pathfinder 2 https://youtu.be/-oPMrasuMOU

I would also recommend the Basics for Gamers series on Youtube for a good look / explanation of concepts
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYCDCUfG0xJb5I-wDIezuDkTfbd8k21Km

Finally - some of the simple concepts that it helps to remember

Everyone gets 3 actions and maybe a reaction
Most actions will be simple actions (1 action) and well defined Strike, Move, Step, Sneak, Interact (with something)
More complex actions (Activities) like Spells can take 2 actions 1 Verbal, 1 Somatic (had waving) (most spells take 2 actions)
Finally - You the GM can determine how many actions a strange activity will take (max of three actions) Just keep in mind they generally have seconds.
So Move (into position), Strike with right hand sword, Strike with Left hand dagger
Cast a spell (verbal and somatic) and then move away
Or maybe a three action cinematic activity of Grabbing the Chandelier rope, cutting it and holding on for dear life (player, please make DC 15 Athletics check) while getting rocketed up the next level. (which is basically an Interact with the rope, Strike on the rope and a...

Oh wow! Thanks for breaking down so much. Gave Nethys a look over. Very cool resource. The youtube videos too. These will be very handy!

As for the rest, I'm gonna print this off. LOL. Lots of info to digest. Thank you very much. :)

Hmm.

Thirding the proposal to jump straight into 2nd edition. So intuitive. And designed with GM ease in mind.

If it was me, I'd take a year to learn the system from both sides of the screen before diving into my "master plan" of running Council of Thieves.

That way, when you finally run it, you can use the Gamemastery Guide to convert (actually: rebuild) the encounters into 2nd edition, using your experience to guide what might otherwise be a difficult conversion. Something to look forward to: Several subsystems in this book are a great fit for CoT, as a sort of "stretch goal" to just running a game baseline.

Good luck!

Um, you had me at GM ease. LOL.

This was my thinking too (waiting on Council of Thieves). I could gush over the story all day. It sounds like so much fun and I wish I could have run this as a player with my old buddies. But I can see diving into it is a challenge I'm not ready for!

Let me second the advice to start with the second edition of Pathfinder, rather than the first.

The products you're talking about (Beginner Box, Council of Thieves) use the rules from the first edition. The second edition is so much easier to understand (and to explain) that I suggest you start with just the Core Rulebook for second edition, and a few easy scenarios for 1st level players.

If your local gaming store isn't open, you can order what you need right here from Paizo
Core Rulebook PF2.
If the print edition is beyond your current budget, start with the PDF.

The first standalone adventure for PF2 is "The Fall Of Plaguestone" You can order it here

The Pathfinder Society scenarios will also let you get started quickly with easy adventures for your group.

Quests And Scenarios
Quests
These quests are all written for first level characters
#1 Sandstone Secret
#2 Unforgiving Fire
#3 Grehunde's Gorget
#4: Port Peril Pub Crawl
#6: Archaeology in Aspenthar

Scenarios
The following scenarios are first level as well
#1-01: The Absalom Initiation
#1-02: The Mosquito Witch...

Oooh. I hear that. Maybe I'll ditch the starter kit. I don't want to confuse anyone. I just want them to sort of understand what they can do. Like, it took me a month to figure out I could use my skills list... like perception, for example. It was easier having someone in the group that did that and it made me really think about implementation. Maybe the scenarios will help.

That's the second recommendation for plaguestone, so I'm definitely buying it.

And thank you for the lists. These will do nicely! :)

Council of Thieves is a FANTASTIC place to start and I myself and working through a conversion of this AP although I am starting off on with a later entry for the group I'm running. The reason it's such a good AP for the conversion is that it is one of the VERY few APs from 1st Edition that DOESN'T rely on some subsystem "gimmick" rules that was released in Hardcover around the same time and has purely "Core" assumptions from book 1-6.

Oh, the stories just sounded so fantastic I couldn't resist buying Council of Thieves! I can't wait to be able to play it. I was totally drawn by the second book (I think?) where the group will have to play parts in a play. Very, very cool!

Welcome!

Well, your questions really can't be answered concisely :) But I'll try!

First off, no, it isn't really "easy" but if you're looking to start a new group with others who don't already play, even your small experience makes you the expert, right? I think a willing and positive attitude, and clear, friendly communication with others that you're all new and trying, and you'll all learn more as you go, is all you need.

Differences between the editions... there are a LOT. Pick one and go with it, you really can't blend them. Well, you can rip the story/maps from one edition and run it with the rules from the other, but if you're newer at this, I would avoid that as it's a ton of work and your energy is better spent elsewhere. You already have some 1st edition products... Council of Thieves, Beginner Box), so if cash is in short supply, stick with what you have. You can play with just the beginner's box if you want, it's bit bare bones but it gets you and friends playing.

However, I would recommend 2nd edition Pathfinder. Buy the Core Rulebook, maybe buy the Bestiary or else just look up monsters on Archive of Nethys for now. Especially if you're not sure if others will buy in and play long term. I think PF2 is a little smoother and friendlier for new players. Also 1st edition has 10+ years of products and it can be very bewildering to try to dive into all that... where as PF2 hasn't even been out for a year, so there's not so much to think about.

As for adventures, if you're looking for something on the shorter side, Fall of Plaguestone is a good adventure. It can be a touch challenging for the players, so be ready to pull some punches or else kill some players, but the story is solid and there are some great moments. If you are looking for something longer, Age of Ashes

I guess I'll try to transition toward 2nd edition as to keep things simple. Bewildering is a great word for it! LOL. I definitely intend to play the beginner box campaign at first because I like the stories and don't want to mess them up.

I think I'll start shorter but I'll look into both. I don't want to scare them away with a big campaign, but I'd like to get into longer ones eventually.

Thanks for responding. Great info here. :)

Hopefully I'm not in the wrong forum here (sorry if I am). I tried to find a rookie section but was unsuccessful.

I had the fortune of making friends with a bunch of Pathfinder enthusiasts and we played a little bit of Rise of the Runelords. This opened a door for me I couldn't shut. Sadly, I had to move away and now I don't know anyone who plays.

I'm a little too green behind the ears to join a group of strangers, especially as I still get confused looking at character sheets. I bought the beginner's box and some info books a while back, but I know that if I want to get my friends interested I'll have to DM. That being said, I don't want to ruin the experience for them (or me) by being a bad one. My old friend made it look so easy and it's NOT.

Questions:

Are there any books or planners I can purchase that do a thorough dive into running a campaign from a DM perspective?

What's the difference between version 2 and 1 (and where should I start)?

I bought the first three books for Council of Thieves because it looks like so much fun, but I think I want to save the story for when I'm more familiar. Is there a campaign that's friendlier to newer players (aside from the one in beginner box)?

Any other advice is welcomed.