bden's page

Human
Barbarian level 2 with moment of clarity
Sorcerer level 3 copper dragon sorcerer
level 4 dragon disciple

i used to play a sorcerer and got beaten to many times

The players i am with don't know much about team work and i always ended up were i didn't want to be or dead
Now i can old my own without being the one man show of the team and have 10 times more fun

Thanks a lot for the quick answers
I will try to convince one of my freinds and try it outon sunday
and give my impressions as soon as possible

ok i managed to open map tools but its not very user friendly
i tried to create a character but didnt find out how

so i opened character tools and now i have a character sheet but cant figure out how to put it in map tools

the way i see it FGII is very user friendly compared to maptools
and feels more like a fantazy game
maptools is very elaborate but complicated also in maptool you feel like your playing with data not with characters but i havent tried to play yet so i will check more tutorials

but i can see computer wiz DMs would probably like maptools more

Wow thanks everybody for the replys
i checked and downloaded maptoolscharacter tools...
but i dont kwno how to open them so im still working on that
I'm already playing FGII

I'm willing to test maptools if i can figure it out

hey thanks
Yes Fantazy ground is very versatile
i can change some of the rules and stats myself
upload monsters and maps...

but if Paizo and FGII would work together and offer a complete pathfinder FGII Pack i would be willing to spend a very big amount of money to get it
say 200 $ bucks for 1 DM licence and 4 player licences
+ the Pathfinder settings (rules, Monsters,basic maps)

I dont think the fact that were going to switch from tabletop to
FGII virtual tabletop is going to affect the voulme of stuff (pdf)
i buy from paizo nor the number of hard covers i buy at the corner store

Paizo could even sell modules downloads to FGIIn or other virtual tabletop systems

I have never been a fan of online games Like world of warcraft and diablo...but virtual tabletop is something else.

Now i get the chance to play with my friends that live far away every week with the DM interacting with the players

Hi guys any chance to see pathfinder modules in fantazy grounds

I just played a game on fantazy ground and i think it would be awsome to load pathfinder modules and rules,maps....
i would definatly put a subscription ti this
and playing while using skype was to cool

thanks its working now

I'm trying to buy some dragon issue # 342 in PDF and it does not go to my shoping cart
in fact rigth now i cant buy anything my shopping cart stays empty

Guys this is so hard the wayting is killing me
I was following many playtests
and now i'm down to a couple of posts only houch !

If you guys could continue to post a resume of your games it would be very apreciated
some were as good as reading a novel hihi

How much money Paizo makes out of a PDF (all in their pockets and save trees)
How much money they make out of a printed version
(pay the freigth ,the fuel ,the printers , the warehouse , the crates , labors...)

Even if im buying PDF i still buy the hardcovers and i think if there was a printable discount i would buy even more hard copies
from a store close to my home

I dont think it changes anything since
anybody can already do that by handpicking the PDF like i do rigth now
I still buy the hardcovers from stores (for now)

Maybe to stop selling Hardcoverbooks in PDF version would give a more balancing solution ( or avalable at same price as a hard copy)

If production is lowered than maybe you can produce them in the US instead of China (Find balance between full to medium scale production and less freigth expenses + less pollution + help your economy)

a PDF subscription could cost exactly the same as it costs buying them individualy i wouldn't mind since it already costs less

I would be at the same level as hard copy subscribers (gifts,news events...)Plus i would be shure not to forget anything

Its cool to handpick my PDF's but i'd feel better being a full PDF subscriber

Yes that is also wath i think
i was just suprised there was no mention of it

thanks

I noticed there is no mantion about regional or racial traits ?

Krome wrote:
To be brutally honest, complaints about the costs of shipping are just sour grapes and annoying. Don't like that it costs more to ship to Canada? Convince Canadians to unite with America. You want to stay your own country? Don't complain about money fluctuations and shipping.

Wow what a brutally arrogant reply
its not the cost of shipping the problem its the costoms fees
(companies are abusive)
You think free trade works one way ?
Maybe i should stay my own country like you said and tell you to get wood , electricity and water somewhere else

I apologise to everybody else i didn't want to bring this into political BULL

Jason
At a later point in time
It would be cool to have your final impressions of some of the major changes and why (with some reference to the posts)

Thanks for all your hard work Paizo people

I cant find it

I work in a printshop so i would definately go for a PDF subscription
me and my group buy the hard covers only .
(in canada around 50$CND a peace)
for everything else i want PDF
I was told that if you use (Canada Post air) then you don't have to pay for cotoms fees like you have to with UPS
I need to verify this and also if paizo would go with it

most of the bloodlines are balanced?
some gives claw attacks others boost strength
but your AC and BAB stays the same

the way they are they could be offered to any class
in place of a feat and it would not change much of the game
a cute flavor for any class but not very usefull

most of the abilities they give you you can do better with spells
since you have so many spells after 5th level

so they do not fill there purpose witch is to make the sorcerer different from the wizard

I dont see how a ray that can do only 1D6+10 at level 20 is balanced

but yes they do look cool at first and second level

...If you take a smaller qwarterstaff 1D4/1D4 would you acept it as a finessable weapon for a medium character

I ment thinner qwarterstaff doing less damage not shorter
In dnd they woud keep the same reach
i'm trying to see where it would brake game mechanics

here in quebec there are many combat games like baffle
weapons with soft ends .the polearm is popular because of its reach
there are a lot of people from europe that come to play these games
i'll ask some friends if the staff is also popular and the prefered length

Does any body have the opportunity to try this aproach for this weekend and repport back monday
that would be cool

Daztur wrote:

I like the fact that wizards are fragile - it makes them fun to play.

fun when you have a great team to count on

but when your team is split up or the figthers dont care as long as they can kill something your first levels are not so fun
detect magic at will irritates other players more than anything

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We starting to get some where now... the quarter staff should be as is. but adding different types (jo, bo, ba, fe, tt...) and making them behave differently so one could finesse with one etc would be cool. I have been wanting to play a monk/sorcerer that fought with a staff but the penalties using it for two attack seem to harsh.

the monk can use a qwarterstaff with flurry of blows

a finessable qwarterstaff doing 1D4-1D4 with 10 foot reach is still better than a regular qwarterstaff non finessable for your type of built (i have to check the rules for smaller weapons)

bden wrote:

(ever seen a karate staff kata competition?

A staff should be finessable if used as a double weapon
counting both ends as ligth weapons
you still need two weapon figthing anyways

That's because the staff type they use isn't a "quarterstaff" it is a "bo staff" with about half the weight per foot, and typically 2 feet shorter.

Thanks for the reply

in Pathfinder if you hold a qwarterstaff
- 1 handed you can do one attack with full strength bonus
-with both hands 1 attack at 1+1/2 your strenght bonus
-With to weapon figthing you can make 1 attack at full strength
and 1 off-hand attack at half strenght bonus

even with all its versatility do you see many figthers use the staff ?
now make it finessable (used as a double weapon) it would become an eaven les powerfull weapon since it would deal half strength bonus to damage on both ends (considering both ends as ligth weapons)
so those less powerfull figthers or characters would get:
-a decent chance to hit with low damage output and good reach

If you take a smaller qwarterstaff 1D4/1D4 would you acept it as a finessable weapon for a medium character

A ki pool starting at first level and many choices of maneuvers/powers/figthing styles would be cool

An other way to improve the monk is to give him the same feat progression as the figther has but monk feats only on a class list
There was a lot of feats in 3 and 3.5 that were for monks
this would be simple to do

In a way feats are special maneuvers

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small question

I have been confused by it for while, one end is a light weapon. what is the attack value if my sorcerer level 1 with my feats were to use her quarter staff for two attacks in one round?
and if she at second level decided to become a monk what would be her attack bonus now? using for two attacks and for flurry?

anyhow what is the verdict on the quarter staff?

See Beta rules table 9-7 Page:153

with Weapon finesse :
-Dex bonus to attack roll(off hand weapon only)because it is treated as a light weapon
with Weapon finesse house rule: Qwarterstaff is finessable and does only half strength bonus damage to both ends except for monks(special)

Flurry with qwarterstaff:
-a monk adds an extra attack at his higest base attack bonus
at the expence of accuracy giving a -2 on all his attacks
with full strength damage on both attacks (Beta rule)

(house rule)
since a monk's flurry is kind of a two weapon figthing ability
i dont alow this feat with flurry of blows
at 4th level he can had an other attack to flurry of blows spending one Ki point and there are other feats to improve on that...

i do allow weapon finesse to any monk unharmed,natural or monk specific weapons attacks with full strength damage(house rule)

i would like someone from pathfinder to at least certify that the
off-hand of a qwarterstaf using two weapon figthing is finessable

just for fun european qwarterstaff

Britich qwarterstaff association
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhMfnvwzRpY&feature=related[/url]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnhNvfy3Oqw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0y8wIYTmXk&feature=related

bden wrote:

i made myself a walking staff witch is about the size of a qwarterstaff

and i played with both bo-staff and my staff and i can tell you the weapon is finessable because of actual play combat
after a couple of swings you get to the point that it as nothing to do with strength but that is in reality not DND

by the way the short staff in martial arts still exists:

( (4.18 foot) long wooden staff, used in some Japanese martial arts. The martial art of wielding the jo; is called jo-jutsu Also, aiki-jo; is a set of techniques in aikido which uses the jo; to illustrate aikido's principles with a weapon. The jo; staff is shorter than the bo staff;. Today, the jo staff; is still used by some Japanese police forces.)

if it is used in Aikido it should be finessable since Aikido uses the strenght of its oponent not its own strenght

I've also learned techniques with walking canes for the elderly
finess doesn't mean you are a master but you have found a good way to use your weapon other than bash someones head with it

I guess we could argue for ever on this simple topic

but i dont see why it would be bad to the game if it was finessable
maybe combined with an other feat

any weapon is deadly in the rigth hands

So by your definition and vastly limited martial expereince, Aikido is dexterity based?

And its sub-style Hapkido then? What's that?
Aikido is more Philosophy, trying to define it with DnD stats is actually impossible,
However it is clearly more Wisdom based than dexterity based.

Aikido, like VingTsun (or Wing Chung depending on what part of china) kung fu is basically designed for weaker, smaller, infirm people to use against stronger, more youthful, larger, more phsyically imposing opponents. But it certainly doesn't mean the practicioners have high dexterity either.
I chose Wing Chung (which I have been a student of since 1998) because I did not posses a high degree of agility. Before that I studied Kenpo for many years, since then I have learned...

funy you say kung fu is for the weak since its one of the hardest martial arts to practice because you need a very high agility

Whyle Wing Chung is a dex based martial art short and fast attacks
(hand eye coordination) didnt you notice?
back to DND puting everything in one stat combines them by default
and the fact that you have to take a feat to do it counts to me as experience

since the spell is so easy to evade i'm not shure difficult terrain is enough i do agree that bigger creatures be less affected
but it should have a stronger slow effect than difficult terrain
or move it to first level

i made myself a walking staff witch is about the size of a qwarterstaff
and i played with both bo-staff and my staff and i can tell you the weapon is finessable because of actual play combat
after a couple of swings you get to the point that it as nothing to do with strength but that is in reality not DND

by the way the short staff in martial arts still exists:

( (4.18 foot) long wooden staff, used in some Japanese martial arts. The martial art of wielding the jo; is called jo-jutsu Also, aiki-jo; is a set of techniques in aikido which uses the jo; to illustrate aikido's principles with a weapon. The jo; staff is shorter than the bo staff;. Today, the jo staff; is still used by some Japanese police forces.)

if it is used in Aikido it should be finessable since Aikido uses the strenght of its oponent not its own strenght

I've also learned techniques with walking canes for the elderly
finess doesn't mean you are a master but you have found a good way to use your weapon other than bash someones head with it

I guess we could argue for ever on this simple topic

but i dont see why it would be bad to the game if it was finessable
maybe combined with an other feat

any weapon is deadly in the rigth hands

ever seen darth mole use the double ligth saber
its a good think George has a better understanding of combat than some off the posts i see here

Every movie i have ever seen about someone figthing with a staff
is based on speed and dex (finess)

i chalenge you to find a movie where a super strong guy uses one hand on the staff and strikes a blow (strenght)

except maybe the hulk

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Just lowering the progression of known spell bonus spell granted by the bloodlines should be sufficient.

i agree

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Ah you make some really valuable points, some thing should be done about it.. Many they get an extra spell when you reach the required level to cast a new circle of spell and only then. Would that be valid? What would you do?

I find that the key to your question is the bonus spells

EONI i'm working on how to present the Sorcerer in a more bloodline focused way just like you asked me to hihi
I'm re writing almost everything
my game is on hold for a while i have time to spare and it's fun

here is a spoiler

There will be a slow spell progression for medium BAB bloodlines
and a normal spell progression for poor BAB bloodlines
There will be a new progression for the bonus spells

I think it will turn out very different than i excpected

i will have to include 4 or 5 new sorcerer only feats
the description of each bloolines will be much longer
but everything will be included in each bloodline
except for the tables

If this is not interesting please tell me and i'll stop posting the spoilers

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Yeah I know what you mean hence the thought that the class still needs some work, Hypotetically speaking what would you have paizo put on the retail version of pathfinder? how would you change the sorcerer class so it work better and the community would feel better about it?

Well this is it

its late ill chek this in the morning

like i said before i do agree with you
the bloodline theme fits perfectly with the sorcerer

but why are they so weak and even useless at some point
they should be the main dish not the entrée
they are completly overshadowed by the number of spells per day

i don't no why the bloodlines arn't the main theme of the class
is it fear of change or critics ?

When you play the sorcerer the way it is writen in pathfinder Beta
your bloodline powers rapidly become opsolete as your reservoir of spells per day gets bigger and bigger....
the only thing i found very usefull was the bonus spells

Refering to the first post

Musing with the Sorcerer class:

Sorcerer:

You remove all the bloodlines from the sorcerer class
- Add a couple of feats and/or class abilities and/or
bonus spells and voila !
I personaly think the Sorcerer does not need the bloodlines

Warlock class
- Ligth armor proficiency
- Add medium BAB and saves
- Add D8 HP
- add bloodlines
- spell-like abilities Based on bloodlines
- Boost ray damage to (1D6/2 level)Max 6D6
range(30 feet+ 10/2level)
And you have a warlock class
For a combination of both i would go with:

The sorcerer described in the Pathfinder Beta
but not my #1 choice

can't you use magical means to boost the low BAB of the sorc into something acceptable?

You got the rigth word "ACCEPTABLE" to me it is not

but anyways this post is about do you think it would be to powerfull
or can it be balanced i want to build a sorcerer class focused on bloodlines for my own satisfaction i was asking sage advice

maybe i didn't find the rigth place to post this

Taliesin Hoyle" I think it is a good basic idea, and not as difficult to pull off as might appear.

In the spoiler tag are the bard variants from the SRD as a basis for comparison:

good spoiler thanks
i was talking about making a new arcane class focused on bloodlines

i would like some ideas on that since i will probably try it out

I am playing a sorcerer of fire elemental blood line
I started level 1 and now am level 6
we decided to go with slow Xp progression
i have 18 in charisma and dex

The more i climb the levels the more i feel the bloodlines get behind
don't get me wrong i like the concept its just that to me
being able to cast so many spells its overshadowing the bloodlines

do any body else feels that way ?

I'll probably go with eldritch nigth to get more HP
and sadly dump the bloodline for an improved familiar

bden wrote:

Imagine taking the bard class as a base

remove all the bard abilities except light armor casting put in the bloodlines

Now you have a medium BAB with Moderated casting special abilities
and the bloodlines become the main aspect of the class

I am not sure i would call this class sorcerer or warlock
but now the claws make sense

Do you think this class would be too powerful ??
I guess it would depend more on what spells or spell-like abilities he gets from the bloodline

I dont get it, you're saying take away all the bardic abilities from the bard, and give him claws and you're asking of thats too powerful?

Most people say the bard is already underpowered, how can taking away all the bardic abilites be good?

I didn't express myself very well

-use medium BAB Progression
-same saves as the bard
-put in the bloodline powers (same as sorcerer)or augmented
-light armor proficiency

As for spell progression i'm not shure
maybe same as bard but from the sorcerer-wizard spell-list
or remove the spells and add stronger spell-like abilities
the rays could be augmented to 1D6 per 3 levels

Do you think this class (not a prestige class) would be topowerfull?
I wanted to put the focus on bloodlines

Imagine taking the bard class as a base
remove all the bard abilities except light armor casting put in the bloodlines

Now you have a medium BAB with Moderated casting special abilities
and the bloodlines become the main aspect of the class

I am not sure i would call this class sorcerer or warlock
but now the claws make sense

Do you think this class would be too powerful ??
I guess it would depend more on what spells or spell-like abilities he gets from the bloodline

I hope the sorcerer class stay and that there is no merge of warlock class etc. the bloodline move was a good move, i beginning to love the class once more. hopefully not yet finished but much better then before.

Ido agree with you on that

A quarterstaff in D&D isn't really a quarterstaff.

It is a generic weapon that has 1d6 damage and a crit multiplier of x2. It doesn't have anything else particularly "special" about it- except that you can dual wield with it. It costs the same to enchant both ends as it does to have two weapons.

So what are we really talking about?

Lets compare it to 2 one handed, light weapons and see if we imbalance things by allowing it to be "finesse"able.

We have the Sickle (generic 1 handed light melee weapon)
1d6/x2 (slashing)

We have the Light Mace
1d6/x2 (blunt)

For the point of comparison I'll go with the Light Mace. It doesn't get a special listing (since it is nothing special) and shares the same damage category as the Q-staff.

Q:Staff:
1d6/x2.

Light Mace:
1d6/x2

Unless I'm missing something, there really is no rules "issue" with making the Quarterstaff Finessable, as it's functionally equivalent to allowing them to do so with the Light Mace. (or arguably the sickle).

(also interesting to note that the 3 classes most likely to dual wield (fighter, rogue and monk can all use the staff and while the monk can't use the mace or sickle, they Can use the hand axe which is 1d6/x3- so the staff is actually a downgrade)

-S

the monk can use both ends of a staff in a flury or part of a flury off blows as described in the 3.5 monk class description

The thing with the sorcerer is that it follows to different paths in the same class:
the wizard path with the spellcasting abilities (spells per day...)
and the warlock path with the bloodlines and free at will ablilities

the spell casting part is strong enough i think exept for the first 4 levels where you realy need your team mates

the bloodline part is so cool yet futile since after level 4 you will be using your immense réservoir of spells per day (the only thing usefull is the extra spells known from the bloodline)

Also since the bloodlines bring a physical aspect to the sorcerer
it's BAB progession should be medium not slow
and the spell progression lowered to the point of being secondary to the bloodlines

if both are to be used together bloodlines should be main and spellcasting secondary not the other way around

For house ruling
one thing you could do is allow the first attack of a rogue against an oponent in a given combat to be a sneack attack

only works once in a given combat with that particular oponent
it would allow you to remove sneak attacking a flanked oponent
without penalising to much the rogue since now he can use it on everyone but for only one attack

and to allow rogues to use sneak attack with all its attacks
in a traditional back stab(move silently+ hide in shadow)= stealth against any suprised oponent
since a back stab is so hard to set

for bards i wouldn't mind losing the spells
i think it would work better with more unique abilities
a bit like the barbarian works with the rage powers

(ever seen a karate staff kata competition?
A staff should be finessable if used as a double weapon
counting both ends as ligth weapons
you still need two weapon figthing anyways

i think every sorcerer will take draconic blooline to get the draconic disciple PrC its there only hope

all others will find a cliff and jump

Sacrebleu! you have uncovered me yes i'm french

If there ever is a french PFRPG i would probably not buy it
my reading is good , my writing is poor as you ca see
but i need the practice

I also love the bloodlines its an amazing idea but for the wrong class
That is unless they give it better HP, better BAB , better AC
(they wont do that)
the title sorcerer wouldn't fit anymore they would have to call it
(the blood warrior)

the claws are useless Poor AC,poor BAB
the ray is pretty much useless afther first level

you are very smart
skiping level 1 trough 4 gave you a big big brake

I recomand any players ho really want to play a sorcerer to start at level 5

no offence to anyone but this class needs a make over
The bloodlines are cool but they feel half done
the feats dont start at the rigth place
the bonus spells fall behind
the abilities dont match the BAB and they dont improve trough levels

i give a 3\10 to this class (levels 1 trough 4)anyways