Zoobie1977's page

I hear what you're saying and I think the Father was definitely out of line, but I also agree from a DMing perspective that it can be very frustrating (and slows the pace and negatively impacts the tension) when players spend 5 minutes strategizing at the beginning of a combat. I certainly wouldn't have decided an action for you, but I may have said "you have 30 seconds to decide what to do, or we will assume you are delaying".

I guess I'm the bossy player in our group :-( Often coming up with GM decisions as a player, to help the game run smoothly.

Like telling a freshly started player that she can't use summon monster, when she's never opened the beastiary before? But in turn offering to help come up with 3-5 monsters for each spell level and talk about their differences, prior to next session - put their main stats together in a word document and help them print it.

Or when a player can't make a decision on how to handle a 1gp fine, when she was all alone and literally had no money at all - after spending 10 mins without saying anything final, i got kinda irritated and asked for a final answer, even though the GM didnt push the issue.

I can see that it's very poor style and i hate to do it, when I'm just a player, but our GM doesn't push the issues and i get easily annoyed, when the game comes to a complete halt at situations like those above, and everyone has to wait for a single player :-(

Sorry for revive :-)

I'd def. make sure i would always be able to prepare
1) Teleport - to be able to pickup a spare spellbook and new component pouch easily :-)
2) Charm Monster
3) Overland Flight
4-5) Shadow conjuration and/or Shadow evocation
6) Invisibility
7) Summon monster V to always have a mini healer at hand

In that order, limited by intelligence at lvl 9-10 :-)

Even if it's just the flavor of having a well prepared character :-)

The first 5 might not be everyones priority, but they can all be cast without material components, which might also be an issue if your spellbook is missing :-)

Avatar-1 wrote:

Diplomacy wrote:

Check: You can change the initial attitudes of nonplayer characters with a successful check.

Nobody said that within the rules as written there was any disagreement. It does not work on PCs.

Yet, I still maintain that it makes no sense that it doesn't, and it makes dumping of mental stats and social skills so much less painful than dumping physical stats.

Like I said, as a GM I would absolutely allow diplomacy to affect players. Not to the extent that it works like Dominate, nor take away free will completely.

But I would tell them something along the lines of the Charm Person and trust my players to ROLEPLAY as if their character was somewhat convinced (regardless of whether they as players knew I was messin' with them). And I would increase/decrease the effect on my players based on their Sense Motive or w/e.

I just miss the logic: Both an NPC take Power Attack, Charm Person, Time Stop, Cleave or any other spell or feat in the game, and they can affect each other with it. Yet for this one skill it wouldn;t work? Why on earth not?

Player agency? To hell with that, I expect my players to trust that if they get influenced I do it to achieve a fun situation. The p[roblem here lies in the (slight) tendency of PF to treat the GM and players as adversaries, whereas I think they work together to make an awesome story. Combat is part of that, so are social interactions. Fail social interactions, there will be consequences.

Please stay on topic - the question was whether players can use diplomacy on each other, to make them do something they don't want to do - not whether a GM should be allowed to influence a player.

Also, if one of your players is shy and/or socially akward, and couldn't roleplay a diplomacy skill of 5+ modded if his life depended on it, then what?

I don't have my beastiary, but AFAIK constrict is free damage and rake is (by default) 2 free claw attacks, once you are the grabbler, then you can do a grabble check to deal damage on top of that.

However without either constrict or rake or similar abilities, your gobling only deals bite damage once while grabbling and only if it makes it's check, but grabbling someone has a range of other benefits

I believe that just hitting a square is AC5 - if the siege ammo is large enough, that could be all you need - though that would be too powerfull for character combat, but might be accurate against e.g. a ship.

Driver 325 yards wrote:

GM fiat is not making different challenges for different characters. That is good GMing. GM fiat is creating dumb stuff out of thin blue air. It is amazing to me that you guys can only envision a world where everybody is one par with one another. How unimaginative.

I am done talking to you guys. I once received good advice. Don't argue with a crazy person and don't argue with someone bent on holding on to false beliefs. After all, the two are one in the same.

If you want to believe that the only way to GM is to GM a party that is exactly the same power level from top to bottom (don't even know how you achieve that) then you go right ahead and believe that.

I am out.

Good GM's don't make up contrived situations that don't pass the common sense test. If you don't come back you won't be missed.

Actually good GMs tailor scenarios and campaigns, so there is a challenge for everyone - Like a multiple skill challenge for the "skill-horse" rogue, who needs to break into a wellguarded mansion in the dead of night.

1) the dragon-breath sets the town on fire and the close-built wooden houses and the gusts of wind from the dragons wings, makes the fire spread like wild, making multiple oppurtunites for the low level PCs to be heroes too.
Have you never had a group of PCs run a scenario under a bigger threat, that they could not influence? Like under the shadow of an erupting volcano? Or behind the lines of an invading army?
The highlevel warrior's battle could be 1 battle rounds every 5-10 minutes, making the battle last for a good while, like the legendary battles of the myths, where a champion would battle some beast for several hours or even days, before the mighty beast succumbs to its wounds.
I don't think I've ever heard of a legendary battle or a song worthy of the most renowned bards, where the beast was slain in less than 10 seconds. - When Thor shatters the giant army's champion with a single throw, it's more of a comical situation than an epic battle of the ages.

2) A highlevel warrior type defends the narrow mountain pass from marauding orcs, which is the only northern entrance to a small village community in the valley. On the other side of the mountains, there are open plains to a small unsuspecting kingdom. Even a highlevel warrior can't keep 20.000 marauding orcs with burning arrows and ranged siege weapons at bay forever (Think "300!").
The group of smaller PCs tries to locate the town alchymist, who is lost in a nearby cave, to find the stash of explosives, that will seal the mountain pass untill spring comes to melt the snow.

3) The king and his family is wellknown for their dislike of elves, who broke an alliance 300 years ago.
Hence the almost impossible DC on the high level elf's Diplomacy, while the 3rd level human could pass a much lower DC by influencing the kings attractive young warden, who would then convince the king to show leniency.
Maybe the highlevel elf would face a multiple skillchallenge - a K.history check to realize that it was in fact the Kingdom who broke the alliance with the elves, followed by a Linguistics check to find the ancient documents that supports the truth, before even being allowed an audience, and make his diplomacy check. Giving the 3rd level human time to woo the young warden (M/F).

I'd play with a GM who can think outside the box, on any given day...

Thomas Long 175 wrote:

chaoseffect wrote:

Thomas Long 175 wrote:

Actually the terrible crit range means your damage is still likely to be lower. Its a trade off. You still have to pay for the weapon enchant now, so the cost isn't any lower than paying for two weapons, except now you're also buying a shield and two weapons if you want the defensive buff too.

Was there a FAQ nerfing Shield Master? I never heard of any official response beyond "well we shouldn't have printed it that way :x."

No, but they did print a specific FAQ as I recall that said you had to purchase offensive and defensive enchantments separately, which is kinda odd given that feat.

Bwahahahahaha! What?

So if I have a +1 shield, it isn't +1 when I bash, I have to buy that +1 separately.

That is the stupidest thing I have heard. So it is a magically reinforced shield, but try to hit anyone with it, and it is just a normal shield. Oh my lady Lamashtu, that is a terrible decision Paizo, if true.

A shield that weights the same and has the same size, but is magically reinforced, isn't really any more efficient to use to club people with.

But with the right feats, then an offensive shield with defensive enhancements could be devastating.

Removing the 2 weapon fighting penalties completely AND adding a very cheap gold price for adding e.g. +3/+3 to BOTH hit and damage to both shields for the mere pittance (at lvl 11+) of 18.000 gold without affecting the weapon enhancement costs.
Also since there is no penalties to attack rolls with a shield while wielding another weapon (another spiked shield) there is no reason NOT to equip 2 large shields for a bigger dmg dice (unless you're worried about arcane spell failure)
But ofc at this level of expertize, a wizard can turn herself into a dragon without using 4 feats :-P

Dual-wielded shields just sounds like a really cool visual for a "protector" PC. I've built multiple concepts for such a character, though all for scripts I never got around to writing. >.>

But the character's motto can totally be, "The best offense...is a good defense. *BASHBASH*"

Just like the half-full or half-empty glass is a matter of perspective, that means the same thing.

Also the shield bash feats opens up for some early-level battlefield control for a bit more groupfriendly fighting style, compared than raw damage increase of more mainstream dual wielding feats :-)

Enlarge Person + combat reflexes + stand still + shield slam = a very effective speed bump on the way to the softies in the back row :-)

Oh, I read it alright. It's Still STUPID.

No one ever fought like this in the 10,000 year history of civilization. Only someone who knows they're not fighting for their lives would ever try it.

It's been done in history - It's a martial art technique - It's been seen in movies - It's been seen in cartoons - What more do you need?

Just because you find the idea silly, doesnt mean it's not a valid choice :-)
Personally i think the whole idea about wielding magic only belongs in a fantasy universe... Ohh wait... :-P

******
Game mechanical, it's not really game breaking, compared to e.g. dualwielding Kukri - just a little extra ac, less damage and some different feats. (remember that the 2nd shield doesnt offer any AC bonus)

RP wise, it could be a less agile melee type who does not believe that "the best defense is a strong offense" and who favors blocking attacks rather than evading them.

See now, I too want to have a Dual shield build, but when I envision using a shield as a weapon I see it from apparently a completely different view than everyone else. Everyone else is talking spiked shields and just ramming spikes into people, which is fine, but when I imagine it it's like a heather shield. http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs46/f/2009/204/8/0/80d3cb28a077cd6a45dcacec34a9 c753.jpg But with the boarder around the shield being sharpened like a blade and then using it to slash people, much like how in WW2 soldiers carried around shovels that were sharpened so that they could be used like an improvised knife. That's how I envision a dual shield build. But then again... people say I'm just an imaginary cartoon dog... so what do I know. :p

BALLTO - There is another movie from 2005 - Seven Swords (I just stumbled upon it on netflix) where one of the badguys is fighting with 2 bladed round shields

See now, I too want to have a Dual shield build, but when I envision using a shield as a weapon I see it from apparently a completely different view than everyone else. Everyone else is talking spiked shields and just ramming spikes into people, which is fine, but when I imagine it it's like a heather shield. http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs46/f/2009/204/8/0/80d3cb28a077cd6a45dcacec34a9 c753.jpg But with the boarder around the shield being sharpened like a blade and then using it to slash people, much like how in WW2 soldiers carried around shovels that were sharpened so that they could be used like an improvised knife. That's how I envision a dual shield build. But then again... people say I'm just an imaginary cartoon dog... so what do I know. :p

BALLTO - there is a martial arts movie from a decade or 3 ago, with an elite group of asian fighters - (might be american produced though)

How about a bow fighter that is enlarged with armor spikes and improved trip.

There is nowhere stating that armor spikes doesnt make you threaten squares, so an opponent who wants to close to melee would provoke an AOO moving through your 10' reach, and you could trip him with armor spikes.

Then combining with Parting Shot, an elf bow fighter could be virtually immune to non-reach melee opponents, if he has enough room to maneuver...
(reminds a little of the halfogre with spiked chains, that roy is fighting in OOTS)

I mean Stabbing shot, rather than parting shot

Sorry for double post from another thread, but it seems more relevant here:

An elf fighter using a bow and having armor spikes while being enlarged and having improved trip feat, could prevent a non-reach opponent from closing to melee. Then add parting shot, and you have a silly combo.

But its well withing the letter of the rules, no?

Stabbing Shot, rather than parting shot... had to get up at 4am, because i began doubting i had used the right feat :-)

Sorry for double post from another thread, but it seems more relevant here:

An elf fighter using a bow and having armor spikes while being enlarged and having improved trip feat, could prevent a non-reach opponent from closing to melee. Then add parting shot, and you have a silly combo.

But its well withing the letter of the rules, no?

If I were the GM, and any PC not in a grapple attacked with armor spikes (AoO or not), I would force them to demonstrate how exactly they're managing to do it.

Meanwhile, I (or a cohort) would record this demonstration and post it on YouTube.

If you did that, i would require your to demonstrate how you cast a real fireball, or admit that your request is invalid.

How about a bow fighter that is enlarged with armor spikes and improved trip.
There is nowhere stating that armor spikes doesnt make you threaten squares, so an opponent who wants to close to melee would provoke an AOO moving through your 10' reach, and you could trip him with armor spikes.

Then combining with Parting Shot, an elf bow fighter could be virtually immune to non-reach melee opponents, if he has enough room to maneuver...
(reminds a little of the halfogre with spiked chains, that roy is fighting in OOTS)

Related to this question, and the reason i came here.

Can a free hand fighter / duelist use 2 weapon fighting with armor spikes, and still count as having a free hand?

Seeing from the above answers, that would be a yes, but the benefit from Duelist Precise Strikes would be unintentionally amplified...

We also know that if an invisible creature picks up an object, that object stays visible (unless they stick it in their invisible pocket or something). Basically, something "added" to the invisible creature after the invisibility started will not automatically become invisible.

So if i shoot an arrow at an invisible creature and hits, the arrow will be visible and the square can be pinpointed?