Zoken44's page

"Void Survival: Unlike normal undead, you aren’t
destroyed when reduced to 0 Hit Points. Instead,
powerful energies attempt to keep you from being
destroyed. You are knocked out and begin dying
when reduced to 0 Hit Points"

This is in the side bar regarding the Corpse Folk's heritage.

Isn't this part of those other options you mentioned?

With the Elebrian I imagine a streamer who grew up on stream and has formed an unhealthy parasocial relationship with his followers online, fueling his Mystic Connection. He genuinely cares about everyone, but also has very little care about himself (always treated like a product or asset, even by his family) so his journey is learning that kindness and care must also be extended to yourself.

So, this players guide gives us the Elebrians, big headed folk with innate magical sense that are, mostly, kept for entertainment on Eox, and thus they culturally are mostly actors, streamers, and other performers.

You also get Corpsefolk as a versatile Heritage. You are whatever your ancestry was, just undead. with three lineages and lots of necro-tastic feats.

new spells, and new magic items as well, including weapons, like the Replica Zo! Microphone

James, could Pazio look at fixing mythic animal companions make them mythic tracking their masters. The Mythic Beastmaster is just weak compared to the other destinies. Could you also look at making a mythic rogue destiny the rouge is completely lacking in Mythic.

Mythic for Rogue... basically making a Carmen San Diego? Giving them the ability to steal Theoretical things, steal themselves, cross their name off of Pharasma's list, etc.

I actually like the idea, but specifically designed to be for Starfinder 2e, with new ancestry feats for Golarion ancestries and Class feats for the PF2e classes when they get to space, especially since they moved the existing classes away from being "Rogue IN SPACE" and "fighter IN SPACE"

https://bsky.app/profile/samreich.bsky.social/post/3m3436xerls2o

So, Paizo... any funds left in the marketing budget?
Dropout is home of one of the most popular Actual Play series on the internet and one of the most famous gamemasters.

For information regarding how they spent the $100K that LinkedIn gave them, GameChanger's "Who Want's To be Jacob Wysocki." One of their cast had been having a rough year, including losing his mother, so they did an episode of their show themed around Who wants to be a millionaire that was designed to make him win the $100K, and celebrate the amazing person he is, with big moments to break for sponsorship placement in the most hilarious way possible.

Mind you, Jacob is a guy that when another of their shows put $3K in his pocket, he donated it split between a charity to help revitalize a history town and a local high school marching band.

It's my thread and I'll Necro if I want to.

Saw something mentioned in another thread and it made me think: Yeah, there should be a class for that: The Survival Skill.

I mean we're talking about deep space, the final frontier, blah-blah-blah. There should be a class, probably a support oriented one, where they have a focus on survival and wisdom. but with subclasses depending on what kind of environment they want to survive in.

I don't know what their central gimmick would be. but any ideas?

Sort of an odd idea that just occurred to me:

A Yaoguai or Tsukumogami Poppet that IS the legendary weapon (which also serves as their weapon Ikon).

as you pointed out, Prophesy is broken, if it was every real in the first place.

Further you pointed out that the cycle of souls is a force beyond her that she is manipulating. and would eventually come to a stop to end the universe, so she artificially forces this to continue through the manipulation of the cycle of souls.

Also, I didn't say she was acting outside the cycle of souls, but outside the cycle of Life and Death, the gods can die. We've just had a rather vivid demonstration of that.

With Prophesy broken she is now just a witch manipulating souls to make sure a future she wants, and only that future comes to pass. Sounds like a necromancer to me.

So if a necromancer's bloody sacrifices of lesser animals and rituals had a side effect of helping the local crops come in plentiful and robust, would you no loner consider what they did evil, again assuming this was done with void energy?

Furthermore, from her perspective, she is artificially extending her life by manipulating the flow of souls, this flies in the face of her stated concept of to everything a time to be born and a time to die.

(To be clear, this more of a devil's advocate thing I'm doing here, because I find this an interesting metaphysical and moral discussion, and presenting the arguments that I think Ethical necromancers would give for their activities)

If Pharasma is so justified in prolonging her own life, OUTSIDE the cycle of life and death, then why should we not be able to?

The Raven Black wrote:

Again, Pharasma being 100% opposed to undead is not what makes them, or creating them, evil, or Evil.

They could be the epitome of Good and she would not treat them any differently.

She is the caretaker of the cycle of souls, undeath prevents the soul from flowing, and for Pharasma, the only thing that matters is that the souls must flow.

But the flowing of souls extends the lifespan of the current Universe. Is that not a good thing?

Wait... the flowing of souls extends the life span of the current universe, and thusly I would assume, Pharasma's existence too. She's a hypocrite. She's using souls in this cycle to extend existence, and thus her own personal existence... much like a necromancer might.

Necromancy, more and more, is kind of junk, and should just be removed from the game, rather than all sorts of arbitrary 'some god says you are destroying the universe by using it!' not-really-rules.

Save the space in the book for stuff we are supposed to use (and not going to be judged for using, or even finding interesting)!

If we're wishing for things, I'd like to wish for the introduction of a benevolent god of undeath, governing over those who "naturally" rise, or are turned against their will, or come to reject the callousness of the more "traditional" undead.

Or a diety of undeath presiding over those with unfinished business, or denied lives.

The idea (especially with the introduction of the Necromancer) of an understanding of necromancy that isn't necessarily about binding and using full souls, but using void energy and an animating force, no different than using arcane energies for an animating force (creating constructs)

Zoken44 wrote:

From a narrative/meta stand point I find it unfulfilling and cheap to just say "This type of magic automatically corrupts you and is default evil".

Power corrupting makes sense, we see that all the time.

But again, the fact that you can do some of the exact same things and not be considered automatically evil just because you didn't involve the dead/undead seems hypocritical.

But that's a personal perspective, I understand that the game's Lore is different.

TBH I see nothing that is like undead:

Extremely dangerous
Potentially immortal
Tends to attacks the living

Arsonists have a similar bent to undead crafters but the result fits only the first point. Yet it is enough to have them feared and imprisoned (at least).

Nothing is like the undead?

Extremely Dangerous: Are you saying that pyromantic magic isn't extremely dangers and liable to get away from someeone who isn't careful?
That there are no other ways of achieving immortality (Nex would beg to differ)
Tends to attack the Living: Carnivores and omnivores, and animal will do that including if it's magically summoned.

let me add some stuff: Binding a soul against their will: summonned fey, Elementals, Fiends, Celestials, etc...

Again, yes, In Golarion as it exists in PF2e, Necromancy is cannonically evil and corrupting and blah, blah, blah. I just don't find that interesting narratively. and at my table, it would be more complicated than that.

From a narrative/meta stand point I find it unfulfilling and cheap to just say "This type of magic automatically corrupts you and is default evil".

Power corrupting makes sense, we see that all the time.

But again, the fact that you can do some of the exact same things and not be considered automatically evil just because you didn't involve the dead/undead seems hypocritical.

But that's a personal perspective, I understand that the game's Lore is different.

That's the thing, You know the sewer system in a Golarion city is really well maintained if you see a FEW Kobolds (or other tunneling species) walking the streets. Seeing none implies they aren't allowed and are being mistreated or that they aren't there. Seeing a LOT of them implies that for some reason they no longer find the sewers habitable and are being forced above ground (but upside it's an accepting town)

So without question the last few posts do make it rather clear that in universe, PF2e setting, Undeath is "bad"(Unholy/Evil/etc). (no sarcasm)

I just from a meta perspective remain frustrated by that. If there can be good PC's who are undead, that means logically an undead can be a good person. If any undead can be a good person , that means they cannot be universally evil. Further I find it more narratively interesting if they aren't, and the reality is simply that the most powerful and well known undead ALSO happen to be powerful wizards and rich nobles. They simply use their undeath as an excuse to indulge in their worst impulses, and their empathy for the living is dulled by their wealth and power.

Given that the same or comparable effects can be achieved with other magics that are not considered "evil" or "Unholy" I question the moral judgement that gets thrown on there. I reject the idea of absolute morality being derived from a divine being, given divinities in this universe are not infallible.

I'm sorry, which nation on Golarion (or earth for that matter) has zero poor or oppressed people? Andoran? Nope, poor people there. Absolom, nope, they got poverty. Hermea, sort of, but you must OBEY the "Benevolent" dragon.

I'm not saying Geb is perfect, I'm saying that they are a nation that doesn't stigmatize necromancy and they make it work, and are becoming slowly more progressive.

1: I don't need any of you to agree to anything. I would like y'all to accept that it's a valid perspective to hold, but I can't make anyone do anything.

2: I thought this was a meta-discussion of the ethics as we saw it, informed my the known and unknown mechanics in universe. Not the ethics from the point of view of only the in-universe majority

3: Frankly I don't mean to be as confrontational as I come off, but some of these points do not make sense to me. The behaviors we bemoan about the undead are largely things that are true of any carnivorous or omnivorous creature. and we pretend that they can be both sapient/sentient and universally evil, and like we don't find that perspective grotesquely simplistic when we apply it to other peoples in the setting (or real world). Other than "It has to be this way for the plot to make sense" or "It has to be this way so we have always-evil baddies to fight" I don't get it.

an eternal hunger? You mean like the one in your belly? Of will there be a point at which you will never be hungry again? and are you saying that if you were under the pain of starvation, there are lines you would not cross to keep yourself alive (sane in the case of undead)?

Also, you all act like the only perspective on Golarion is that "Undead is bad". There is a whole kingdom where that's not the case, one that is a huge stable trading partner with Absolom and other countries.

I thought this was a discussion about the ethics of necromancy in universe. I didn't bring up our real world first in relation to this topic or taboos first, I responded to the concept that was posed to me.

TO BE CLEAR I am not trying to imply that anyone here is anything-phobic, or that these things are the same, I'm poking holes in the logic being presented to me.

Pharasma declares it: Appeal to authority, and similar authority is frequently wrong or biased

They are dangerous: Yes, So are a lot of things in Golarion that aren't treated with near this level of stigmatism

Taboos about Death: Appeal to tribalism, and as I pointed out taboos are not always a good thing.

Similar practices and effects are done in all forms of magic and (from an in-universe perspective) what is the difference between binding a spirit necromantically and binding a fey, fiend, or elemental? What is the difference between making a construct and a mindless undead? What is the difference between an undead's desire for flesh/blood and any living omnivore or carnivore's desire for meat?

So a lot of you talk about the disposal via the creatures in the sewers, but I'm going to talk about the creation of the sewars themselves. There are numerous ancestries in Golarion that have a reputation for burrowing and tunnelling. a clever Mayor or other city official can easily work out a deal with the local Kobold nest to create the city's sewer system for for certain concessions. and a reasonably clever Kobold nest would eagerly take the contract to create elaborate tunnels beneath the tall folk's feet... including plenty of tunnels the tall folk are never told about.

Wow, that's an interesting point... you know what else there used to be a huge taboo about?

Wolves. Wolves were a shoot on sight animal for much of human history. But we know a lot more about them now and understand how important they are for their ecosystem.

Also, because I know what the rebuttle will be to that comment, if Undead are inheriently "unnatural" why do natural undead occur (the book of the dead makes it clear that undead can form without any intent from any party, just from ambient magic)

There is a taboo about death, because death is a universal fear. it's why those who handle the dead used to be considered "unclean" and in some cultures was only done by the lowest of castes.

Also, if we want to talk about who breaks major taboos... really? There are a lot of taboos in the real world that are being broken, and for good reason: Talking about mental health, coming out as queer, asking for help.

So When it comes to Necro Ethics I have to ask a few questions from the necromancer's point of view:

Why is an undead's need to feed different from a living creature's need to feed? Especially if they can be ethically sourced (nothing in the undead hunger sections indicates that they must feed from SAPIENT life)

A mindless undead will lash out and attack... so will wild animals.

You magically animated a gust of wind or rock, or a doll. How are you better than me magically animating bones?

You bound an elemental/angel/demonic creature/fey to your service... how are you better than me binding a mortal soul to mine?

We accept that many gods can be quite fallible. As lovable and admirable as the Accidental God is, we know he can make drunken mistakes. We recognize that Shelyn has a blind spot when it comes to Zon-Kuthon, her brother who wants only to inflict pain. Sarenrae demands truth, but we all know those who the truth would hurt. So why can we not accept that Pharasma may be mistaken in her pogrom against undeath?

None of this is to say that Undeath is never taken advantage of, or abused by those who crave power, and yes there are aspects of it that particularly appeal to those who would do so, but that does not mean that all who practice and wield these powers cruel or malevolent or predatory.

Wow, guilty of 5e carry over, sorry.

Frankly, I agree, no matter which of the three versions we're talking about, Spell slots don't really fit (Focus spells maybe)

Seeing something built around being just a shapeshifter and having to "master" certain forms. Subclasses built around the use to which you put your shapeshifting.

Dopple: you specialize in impersonation of actual beings. You gain a limited number of "Mastered forms" which you get a massive deception bonus to pretend to be, or maybe just auto succeed on those forms.

Lurker: You specialize in using your shapeshifting to hide, letting you use your charisma instead of dexterity for stealth checks and your mastered forms are objects made of specific materials (anything else, and a close examination would reveal your wood grain makes no sense, the metal still has the wrong texture, etc)

Warp: You've specialized in combat using your malleable body to switch between physical damage types, give yourself reach, and grapple and engulf. Your "mastered forms" would be unarmed weapon stances

So that's 4d12+8 actually right? (I assume he's got +4 strength)

Frankly, I'm happy with just rolling the normal amount and multiplying by two specifically BECAUSE you also double the flat damage too, which I feel makes up for it if you roll low, but I definitely see the appeal of rolling ALL THE DICE!

Okay, so for the "Beast Boy" version of a shifter what is keeping the Wild Order Druid from fulfilling that role? Serious question. Not down playing that desire at all.

For the Werewolf-ish Shifter, what is keeping the Beastkin VHeritage, the Werewolf Archetype, and the Animal Barbarians from fulfilling that role?

as for the quantum field, Your studies into Sandwhiches have lead you to the ability to have already fed both your allies and enemies before you combat, before you even met them. For any creature in your quantum field choose either "Well Fed" or "Garbage Fed". For those who are well fed, any effect that would apply a fixed number of hit points or temporary hit points applies an additional amount equal to spell casting modifier. If the effect would roll to determine the amount of hit points, instead make two rolls, and take the better result, this is NOT a fortune effect

For those who are garbage fed, they must make a will save when the field activates or the first time they enter the field. on a critical success nothing happens, on a success they are sickened 1.
On a failure they are sickened 1 and cannot reduce this condition until they leave the field.
On a critical failure they are sickened 2 and cannot reduce the condition until they leave the field.

This reminds me of the wisdom based martial I recommended, which was based on the old concepts like the four humors, Chi, and Chakra.

And the Shifter being brought up leads right back into the "What is a shifter" discussion. Because I see people talking past each other because some are thinking beast boy (A Wild Form Druid without the casting and more shapeshifting), or like a Werewolf (we have an archetype specifically for that, not to mention several classes that do something like that.) And what I'm always advocating a class that is somewhere between Mystique and Plastic Man

ReinerZufall: Talk to the player. Even if it were RAW (which others have pointed out issues with it RAW, it's clearly not RAI. and Yeah, that easily could make anyone uncomfortable. Talk to the player and explain your perspective. Having rules to back up your perspective is great and all, but always remember Rule 0: If a rule is getting in the way of fun, change it, it's your game.

Like I said, I think the best option here is to talk to the player and explain how uncomfortable this makes you feel, and how exploitative of mechanics this action is. And set the firm boundary, with a clear consequence for abusing that boundary(because that spell does have some use, I don't want to say they can never use it).

You've got this.

First, I REALLY appreciate all the responses here, thank y'all so much.

Second: I'm just gonna file this with the Magus and Thaumaturge as classes that may be a bit too complicated for me.

So, Greys are mind Goblins with a "Cow Chopper"?

Well, it's Starfinder, so it's Cow Sizzler, but unlike them, it's not like cows are known to attack them or freak out on them. They are just terrified of Cows.

So the only way I could imagine to do Reptoids and Grays is to completely mock the inherent ideas that underly them while rebuilding them.

Reptoids do use a multitude of biological and technological means to hide among non-reptoid societies... because They are one of the first societies to encounter the ASE. And they chose to hide and assimilate rather than fight. There are enclaves of them living in the Veskarium where they do not hide themselves, because they think reptillians life forms are more trust worthy. They actually take great efforts to avoid positions of power in non-Reptoid societies as those hiding live in constant fear of being revealed, but their tendency to preach tolerance and acceptance has lead them to being promoted and lauded in the ALF, and the Stewards.

Grays, as I suggested elsewhere, are so naturally telepathic, they don't have a spoken or written language. they communicate by sharing emotion on memory. The victims who feel oppressive fear and terror while being abducted by the Grays are experiencing the Gray's feelings about their subjects who, in the Gray's Perspective are mute and appearing brain-dead, but still moving. a bit of an Uncanny Valley perception of the people they study, which the subjects pick up on. They did not realize they were studying and experimenting on sentient organisms. While they have been educated by other telepathic ancestries, and are extremely apologetic, there remains something strange: They fear cows (and all bovine like life forms). Like they flee in terror if possible, but if not possible will kill a cow, and refused to explain it.

I will agree I'd like to see feat support to raise the budget on your weapon. Like a repeatable Solarian feat that lets you just add one option to your weapon. a set of feats that lets you invest more into your solar weapon would be good.

Someone loves Calvin and Hobbes!

Like I said, I did the same thing. Not a big deal. Like we both said, they're super awesome so, just takin' that of their plate.

And as a RWBY fan I also love the idea of combination weapons.

heads up Paul, *They*

I made the same mistake.

More open handed weapons, like a energy blasting gauntlet or a shoulder mounted cannon. obviously low damage, and probably needing a manipulate or concentrate trait to be balanced, but yeah, something like that just screams future tech to me.

yeah, CRB had more in it, and was cheaper... and people hated the lay out, lamented they couldn't find anything. and prices have changed, inflation has run rampant since CRB. I want more as well, I wanted Mechanic in the SF2e PC, but it's coming, eventually more will be added.

and because this prompt-like my brain generates a concept.

They're naturally telepathic, to the point that there is no verbal equivalent for their language. it's all emotions. They can't extract, but they can transmit. and they never considered that other species wouldn't be able to do this. So all their kidnapping, they weren't sure when species were sapient since they weren't communicating (in a way they understood).

Those strange feelings of dread and the a weird paralysis? The Dread is them literally projecting their own uncanny-valley feelings about us to us to provoke a response. The paralysis, just them telling us not to move, it will all be over soon.

Recently certain telepathic species have explained things to them and they are better behaved now, HOWEVER, they do not trust bovines or any bovine related species, in a deep abject horror way. Like they are afraid of cows, and refuse to explain.

It's artistic choice made to keep the characters on model and visually distinct, which given this is a drawing of a fictional species justifies their eyes always being in the shadow of their brains.

are there rules for wearing armor when you have natural armor? I think that needs clarifying. Like wearing a Abadar Corp flight suit would allow you to add in the basic atmo protections, but would that interfere with your unarmored defense?

had an idea for a class that could be interesting

Spacemaster
where some break reality by tearing holes to new worlds, or hacking it's magical underpinnings, or finding connection to all living things, you are a living impossiblity, because you are able to violate the most basic laws of phsyics. Distance and volume are your playthings as you alter the distance between objects, enhance or reduce their capacity, and otherwise violate fundamental laws of physics.

I imagine this as a two to three slot caster who can enhance their speed by making certain spans of space just not count. can alter how much a container can hold, even batteries.

I HAVE THE PDF!

THE TIME IS NOW!

Unfortunately, I don't get my paycheck until tomorrow, so I can't get it until then.

You could take a look at what Paizo did with the Rune Lord Archetype. They were also based on 7 of the 8 schools, and with the deletion of them, they shifted the delineation to the function of the spells without actually naming the schools.

I have one problem with the discourse around the "Shifter" class.

DEFINE SHIFTER!

So I see people who talk like you have just the one shape to shift into, which frankly we have archetypes for.

I see others who want it to be more like Beastboy or, the Druid from the D&D movie. they want to be able to turn into any (non-humanoid) animal,and the focus is being animals.

Frankly, I want it to be more like Mystique or Morph where the focus is on shapeshifting, turning into animals, and other people, and on occasion objects, and otherwise warping your body.

My original thought on this was that you'd get to pick up ANOTHER archetype dedication (which you can take when you should take feats in this archetype) but that second archetype's abilities can only be used while transformed. The Idea is less "Beast Boy" and more "Jekyll and Hyde" or "Hulk" or "Shazam"

Though I do hear what you're saying about cutting off a significant portion of power budget, so it would have to add something substantial to the mix to work.