So to my mind "Eternal Legend" makes me think that your legend has spread far and wide. It is told with something bordering on worship. and some of the Exaggeration is starting to become reality.

Rider of the Apocalypse to me sounds more like "Your coming has been fortold, and your actions will result in destruction"

In the first you have created the legend, in the second you are fulfilling a prior established legend.

I started looking into Pathfinder back in 2021. The entire culture of the company is so different from... Others, who may or may not be int based casters where the land meets the ocean.

The creators go out of their way to cultivate discussion with the community, eagerly respond to feedback, and seem to want to make sure that there is no character concept that "Can't" be a pathfinder character.

Wisdom based might actually make more sense for a commander since this knowledge is more about how people behave and react. It would also synergize well into giving them a better perception to be that person who is always watching their team, and how they interact to know how to best direct them in combat.

Something is clicking for me... the Commander class... new divine Dragons... the God of War is dying... Airships... an isolated asian inspired area... Guild Wars 2 what are you doing in my TTRPG?

In seriousness. I like the sound of these and can't wait to see what they do to make them their own classes.

Okay I don't have facts to debate that I DON'T like the idea of Iomedae being directly involved in Arazni's betrayal... but I can see another way.

The mortal woman who would one day become the Inheritor set her helm on the table. They were roughly a mile from the front. Even from this distances she could smell the rot of flesh. "We need a miracle," she sighed, offering a quick prayer to Arazni and Aroden.

"I've been thinking about that," Tyreseus replied. He was a rare oddity, a Liberator of Nethys. She nodded at him to continue. "I was thinking, Shouldn't the right-hand of the Aroden be here, after all, he himself fought the Whispering Tyrant during his first rise"

"If my lady chooses not to appear, I must believe it is because she still has faith in us," Iomedae replied. "What about your mercurial master?" she replied.

"oh, we don't want Lord Nethys here," he chuckled. "More likely to side with Tar-Baphon, magical knowledge and all that."

Iomedae rolled her eyes. She knew that, she'd made the statement ironically. "So, until one of them chooses to appear, we must soldier on ourselves."

"But, what if we didn't need to wait?" Tyreseus offered. "What if we could invoke her and compel her appearance."

"You would not only question the will of a Goddess, but then try to bind her?" she snarled. His proposal had only lead to a darker and darker expression. However, the soldiers around her, some followers of Arazni, but most followers of Aroden, murmured to each other.

Iomedae drew her blade. "I would no more compel the service of a goddess than I would conscript a soldier," she snapped. "this discussion is over."

But it wasn't. the discussion happened behind closed doors, in hushed tones. The Priests of Nethys worked made the summoning and binding.

Iomedae would was across the field trying to return a detachment of wounded soldiers to their base camp (not one of her great acts) when the Summoning and Binding of the Goddess was done. She felt it, felt part of her heart yanked roughly toward the location where this new push was happening. Miles away... the bastards had planned for this. She ran. She ran with ever ounce of strength and will her muscles could offer. but before she could reach the battle, she felt that yanked part of her heart break...

The really cool news is I play in enough SF/PF games per week to try out all the new character options ( :*( )

I love that even while they structue things, they give us so many options. I can't wait to find out more about the Surkis and maybe think of a Surkis that was feeding on primal magic leaking from one of the elemental planes.

Well, given Starfinder 1e is still going to be a thing, you're not "losing" them.

For 2e, they have made it clear they are starting with a few playable ancestries, and and going to expand.

I said on Twitter, I love how much all the options they added perfectly fit with the central theme: the Gap.

Please remember that these uses of AI removes actual human creatives from the equation making it harder to get a job in the creative fields.

Further, the way they generate these things is basically by illegally harvesting information, running it through a blender, and trying to figure out the smartest way to put it back together. It's copyright infringement, which remember, results in actual human writers getting paid less.

Just a thought that popped into my head, and realized there are probably more things like this.

So, say you're an Air Kineticist in a space suit, in space. Given you can use basic kinesis to summon air, If you cup one hand into a cylinder, and put the other flat against the back and summon air into it, can you propel yourself with this?

Add in any other weird physics or scifi interactions you can think of.

Also, feel free to answer the questions, but this is mostly in good humor

Your coloration tends toward a mix of Goblin green and your Elven parent's skin tone. So you are more a lighter or darker green depending on the elf's skin tone.

your ears instead of being floppy are more rigged and swept back than most other goblins. You also tower over them at 3'10. and instead of the bright glittering irises that most of your people have, your eyes are almost all black, like your elven parent.

As far as non-phsyical ways you can illustrate this. Maybe given them a phobia of fire, which is bizarre as most Goblins have a facination with it.

Or make it so that dogs and horses actually like them.

Oh, maybe they can't eat some of the more heavily fermented goblin foods. (It's my head cannon that goblins don' tlike "rotten" foods, they like fermented foods. A lot of cultures do stuff like this. Goblins, because they're a fantasy race, take this to extremes other cultures can't tolerate)

So mimic: "Lurking Predator" change it's gooey teeth and tongue revelation, have the appearance reveal to be a bugs carapice so that there are pincers and claws or arm blades.

Mind flayers: "Cephalo-Phages" make them even more octopus like, remove the appearance of humanoid limbs.And instead of taking over the human body, chest bursting. always a good choice.

Stirges: No, Albatoonoe that's not a bad point. They are just giant mosquitoes.

Owlbear: "Amalgamations" These are the results of Lamashtu convincing Nethys to try and create some new creatures (though thanks to Lamashtu they all turn out to be predators). This also allows for other creatures Squidwolves, Ankyloscorpions, etc.

Ropers: "Cave Abalone". These shell fish look like rocks in cave (they have developed the ability to process oxygen from air) and can lash out with muscular tongues.

So if you have had a discussion with your GM about how no one in the party wanted to go healer, and you don't have the healing items or NPC to deal with situations like this, sounds like a GM problem. If you didn't discuss this with the GM, sounds like a player problem.

All in all, it sounds like you are upset about a hypothetical problem that can easily be solved at any table where people are acting like adults.

I will counter the "Like Johnny Bravo" part of the Cayden Cailean concept with: no, he's actually successful. He has consensually slept with every divinity of a compatable orientation (Ace are ace and lesbians are lesbians and straights are straights). It is always been during times where the other is not in a relationship and maybe even looking for a rebound.

My head cannon is NOT that Cayden Cailean is some "Alpha Chad" but that's he's a himbo man-slut. Some, like Arazni and Sarenrae are somewhat embarassed by it, some like Gozreh and Shelyn readily admit it.

Cayden Cailean is an any willing thing that walks kind of guy.

It also gives them something to gnaw on. Young goblins need to have things they can gnaw on.

This makes me head cannon that goblins, or at least young goblins, are like Beavers, their teeth are constantly growing, so the gnawing is a way to keep them manageable.

So regarding the whole Asset vs. Mark thing, I prefer asset. "Mark" implies disrespect and/or malicious manipulation of the Mark. Asset is a term more commonly used in spy craft, and is more neutral. An asset is something you cultivate and EITHER know how to manipulate, or know how they'll behave.

I agree about letting the Key Attribute modifier be flexible would be smarter.

And with changing "Get 'em" to a status penalty.

I'm liking the Envoy as it is. I agree, it would be nice if "Get 'em" didn't overlap with flat-footed, but I like that it's not a bonus, as that lets others stack bonuses ontop of the penalty you secured.

And I just had an idea for an Envoy that... it's stupid, but I want to try it. they're Infosphere famous. They are a famous Influencer who is constantly live-streaming all the team's fights and investigations. and has a um... Matreon account set up to fund their "next project" (gear upgrade).

Further, I like someone's idea of an intimidation based leader, because that is a common trope. The tough gruff leader who despite being very aggro is well loved and respected by their people. Call that Leadership style "The Drill Instructor". For a good example, see the character Roy Kent from Ted Lasso.

Three cheers to the Archive staff/volunteers!

Category Newly Risen God
Edicts: Practice Empathy for all sentient beings. seek to understand the struggles of others, seek first to understand before fighting
Anathema: Refuse to learn from others, Hold onto prejudices when confronted with truth, spread false generalizations of other people
Areas of Concern: Understanding others, protecting the marginalized, Spreading truth
Holyness Can be Holy

Divine Ability Wisdom
Divine Font heal
Divine Skill diplomacy
Favored Weapon Staff
Domains: Family, Introspection, Truth, Zeal
Cleric Spells

"Hi, I'm part of an adventuring group, and we were wanting to hire a a team member who has some divine power?"

"Sure thing kid, group name?" She asks.

"The Southern Fang," he answered.

the woman behind the desk checked a book briefly. "Okay, you're not on the black list, so what sort of service are you looking for from your holy person?"

"Black list? Service"? He asked.

"Service," she reiterated. "Are you looking for someone to heal you up, and keep you vertical, or are you looking for someone who's more on the wrath side of things? Are you needing someone with expertise in rituals, or with undead either destroy or controlling, what are you looking for. Divine power's a tool, we need to know what use so we can match you with the right tool."

"Er... um... healer, I guess he stammered. "I don't expect to encounter undead, but if we do, most likely we'll be on the destroys side of things."

"Okay, now we're talking," she replied. She copied some information down to a list, and presented it to the young man.

"These are the holy people who hire out through us that meet your criteria, along with their deity or pantheon of worship, their expected rate. You'll pay a retainer up front that we split with the holy person, and then the rest to them on completion. The god is listed because if you or your party tries to get them to do something that violates their sacred oathes, the contract is voided, you owe them their pay on the spot, and if you don't pay you are black listed, and we send both Asmodeans and Calistrians after you, and you don't want to find out what happens when those two agree on something."

My guy you sound like a Catholic/protestant describing a protestant/catholic.

Trickery would also fall under Cayden Cailean's domain, so are we to not trust any Cailenites? She's not an evil goddess, she's just one of responsible indulgence.

I thought her main area of concern is vengence and lust? And don't most houses of worship run a brothel? Meaning they are already known for renting their bodies and time for gold.

also, are you saying no one would hire a worshiper of Odin, or of Athena? Both hire highly praised and well known for their cunning and trickery.

the "Domain" is really a meta concept that we know about, but in universe they probably wouldn't have a concept of. Because you worship a god, and revere specific traits, but which traits you specifically revere wouldn't really be common knowledge. You yourself might get a reputation of "don't throw away money hiring them" but not your god.

This idea of the Free Archetype by default would actually be a cool way of building in your ship role into your character build. Since a ship role will usually (but not necessarily always) not affect game play outside of ship operations.

So at character creation you choose a ship role. While you CAN fill other ship roles, you get special feats ever other level that make you better at this role.

Asmodeus wrote:

Edicts: negotiate contracts to your best advantage, rule tyrannically and torture weaker beings, show subservience to your betters
Anathema break a contract, free a slave, insult Asmodeus by showing mercy to your enemies

There were very few who visited his offices willingly. However so many eventually needed to. His numerous "employees" all operated under numerous contracts.

The nobles all feared him for his vicious and air-tight contracts. They were shocked by the strictness he took with his servents. All could read and all worked tirelessly for him.

What the nobles he looked down on didn't realize is that he taught his employees to read,to understand law and contract, and that their servitude contracts had buy out clauses, and he paid his "employees" well so that they reflected his magnificence. Most, when they took advantage of the buy out clause, either took the first ship in the harbor across the inner sea, others stayed on. He intended to make sure the lazy worthless nobles who had kept his family in poverty would learn their place, and they would lament as those they undervalued were not only raised up, but raised up and loyal to him.

He does not free a slave, the slave frees themself. and it is the lazy self-import nobles he views as weaker, and enemies.

Urgathoa wrote:

Edicts: become undead upon death, create or protect the undead, sate your appetites
Anathema: deny your appetites, destroy undead, sacrifice your life

he was a halfling slave in a particularly cruel house in Cheliax. He lived his whole life, despite his race, never knowing a full belly. He himself was not a cruel person. He did not wish one moment of his suffering on others, even his enslavers. What he wished for was a chance, just a chance, to for once... eat his fill. And with this dying thought on his mind, and his near lifeless body was dumped in a mausoleam. The nacent necromatic energies seeped into his flesh as the cool dry air slowly mummified him alive.

He awoke suddenly. his body creeking but strong. He was a mummy. He heard the Palid Princess' voice. "I give you this chance. go, eat your fill. Defend my children." And so, he snuck from catacombs where he'd been discarded. And fled into the night. He stole food stores and not only enjoyed them himself, but shared them with the slaves and servents around him who like him, had never known fullness. And he spread the word of the lady who did not desire your life or your death. Who only desired you to be honest, and to keep going as long as your will could maintain.

He lead a rebellion that became known as the Rotten Rebellion. And whenever his own soldiers fell, he offered them the strength his mistress could give. Zombies, Skeletons, and ghosts filled his ranks as the people said "no! I was denied this world in life, I will stay until I've had my fill!"

So using the Psychic inspiration idea maybe the revelation spells, and certain spells that can be added to your repertoire via subclass or feats gain the Cursebound trait.

The Cursebound trait allows you to CHOOSE to enhance it in a specific way, but this increases your curse

The issue here is that Pathfinder tends not to make that distinction. They are not "mosterous races" they are just other sentient creatures who happen to look less like humans.

It depends. Some Oracles steal their power from divinities but others just tap their powers from the same source deities tap theirs. So unless you consider that deities can't be Holy or Unholy, you'll have to accept that Oracles can be.

I can poke two holes in that thought process

One the general definition of Holy and Unholy are relative to the gods in question, and as an Oracle is not necessarily following a particular god, that wouldn't necessarily apply.

And further, yes they draw their power from the same place, but they are not, themselves a god. Mythology is replete with the swift and egregious punishment for those who, not even claim the power of a god, but are even suggested to have it.

I can understand a feat that might allow it, but naw, I don't think auto sanctification makes sense.

so what I'm hearing is that they're...

SHINY! like a sunken pirate chest, they're so SHINY!

Sanctification wouldn't make much sense for an Oracle, I mean, aren't they cursed because they are access divine power WITHOUT The permission of the Divine forces?

Good point, but it's yours, not Zoken's. It's not obvious they meant exactly that. Even after re-reading.

___________
(Just a small irrelative note) And by the way, revenge and trickery weren't the core of Zeus, I think. Well, basically all of them were vengeful of course and he did use trickery to get what he wanted from time to time. But I don't think these were the most important things about him.

It was the point I was trying to make, however I will take your note that I was not explicit enough about that.

Okay so first of all
Revenge, Trickery, and Lust... you just described Zeus.

To me she represents a divorse of the concepts of lust and revenge from traditional morality. She says "It's natural to be attracted to that, it's hot. nothing wrong with that, it's wonderful to feel that... whoa, whoa, don't go overboard. And yes, that guy was an ass, you do deserve satisfaction for that insult. Hold up, you're getting out of hand real it in"

It is a validation of so many things gods normally make you feel shameful for, without an endorsement of using them as an excuse of cruetly.

Wow what a joke. So what if I have no desire to want to play the pathfinder system, because of the disaster it has been. I just want to play starfinder. So now I have to shell out more money for books that I don’t want to playtest a game that I have some interest.

2E was not ready to come out and they released it. Starfinder desperately needs to be over hauled because it’s in a worse shape then 2E. When the best feats still reside in the core rulebook after 7 years.

All I have seen in the last 2-3 years is give us money money money for sub par mistake ridden books. I have very little hope for Starfinder 2E.

It’s obvious no one at paizo understands how full auto should work. And I was hoping in 2E it would have been corrected.

Okay, well you don't need to get the PC1 or the GMC, as the rules from those (for the most part) are available at AoN.

And while some tweeks and adjustments have had to be made in PF2e, you are correct about that, it a lot of us have found it a very enjoyable system... hence we're here, talking about it and a new system using it's engine.

While I can understand that you are upset, and I definitely understand frustration at a major upheaval in your hobby, I think you might be overreacting a touch, and being a bit rude to all the dev's, writers, and artist who have worked hard on all three of these systems, and make sure that the rules are always available for us to try before we buy.

I just implore you to remember Wheaton's law... don't be a d***

Just gonna throw my two cents out there, I think it's gonna be Iomedae. No reason to have two heralds of Aroden in the core 20.

While Arazni was a champion of Aroden in life, the fact that she was abandoned, by him, by her followers, she definitely wouldn't count herself as a follower now, and that could make for some interesting alchemy with Iomedae, especially if Iomedae is eager to welcome her predecessor back to life, only to find the Goddess looks at her with disdain.

Ah, a quick check with the archives releaves some of my concern. I had Aucturn mixed up with Akiton

So... that will bring us up to 4 planets lost from this solar system (Aucturn, the twins who became the Diaspora, and Golarion) I'm starting to It might be a bad neighborhood

Someone make sure the doors on the Idari are locked and the windows rolled up.

I would love some alternative worship methods.

it is historically accurate that people would worship horribly destructive gods, but not be doomsday or maniacs. The Goddess Sekhmet was a goddess of war and of destruction. But she was worshiped to keep her placated.

So I would like ways to worship Rovagug in order to keep him quiessent.

Or worship to Lamashtu as a a goddess of motherhood and creation by monstrous races who would not necessarily have the same view of her as malevolent force.

I like that the Disperse Hydrobody ability reminds us that the stellifera is a tiny fish. I would add an ancestry feat that when it disperses the hydrobody it can keep a one-centimeter thick layer of water around it to enable it to breathe, though that might compete with Landlubber.

Actually I could see this being an alternate feat line.

Restrict the size to Medium, and state it's for oxygenation reasons. Then a feat where they can now choose at daily preparation to be small instead. And with this smaller form, you can actually use your hydrokinesis to slow falls, or guide your movement in low grav environments.

Then another feat which allows for you to make the change between small and medium whenever you reform Hydrobody. and when you disperse hydrobody you are left in an envelope of water where you won't start suffocating for 10 minutes

Then finally you have gotten used to manipulating your more compact hydrobody. When you disperse and leave yourself in the thin envelope of water, you actually gain a fly speed equal to your movement speed.as you have less weight to move with your hydrokinesis.

I like that line of thought, although, they have made it clear that stuff from at least the first playtest has already been updated.

As for background, I would call him a Magical Experiment. He wasn't really a soldier until he became Captain America. Prior to that he was a sickly New Yorker. Also, if you could find a way to get the crafting skill, he's actually an artist (in the comics he for a while drew his own comic)

How big is this? because I'm imagining an adventure set in a mining town where they have been mining adamantine for generations and finally the deepest mine strikes something... softer. The sleeping dragon they've been mining awakens and the whole thing is about evacuating people from this town sized monster.

you know what all this argument regarding "simulationism" reminds me of? All the people who don't want to allow fire arms in their home games because they're "Not historically accurate".

When firearms are older than plate armor, and studded-leather armor isn't a real thing.

My point being that There is no real reason why SRO's need to remain immune to space. No more reason than there was to make them immune before. It was a choice, one the devs have pointed out made a clear unbalanced game state, decreasing fun, so they are taking steps to fix it here.

Oh, you can't home brew it away in your own home game? Why? Let me guess, like me you've only ever played star finder with SFS. I sympathize

And I'm sorry that game balance and inclusivity (which contribute the most to fun) being higher priorities than simulation-ism offends your sensibilities.

Sorry I "Spun" your point last time by quoting you directly.

Exactly, an LCD screen in a vacuum is going to rupture, heat will build up, etc... etc... It would make sense for androids and SRO's to need specific gear for surviving in the vacuum of space.

Also, as we have SEEN from the last few years, not all filtration is equal. So it would make sense if some enviro-suit filtration is better at filtering than others.

Wow... so... There are a lot of people very passionate, and I'm going to say it's probably because I'm not as educated in design, but...

I don't mind that SRO's and Androids would only have resistence to bleed and stuff. they can have other liquids that leak and have similar effects. and it makes it more balanced and fair so there isn't a "Right Answer". I still want to play a little beep-boop friend.

Yeah, I think the Archetype is the way to go with some, like the Entu Symbiote. Or a versatile heritage.

I'm just really excited to see what they do. Especially with the new feats they add. Kind of why I was a little disappointed with Field-Test 3 as they didn't feel that different from what we had seen before.

There are some interactions I think people are forgetting here, connected assumptions that just won't carry over.

Just like PF2e characters are going to be excpected to get certain kinds of gear (runes, I'm mostly talking about runes) SF2e Characters are going to be expected have certain kinds of gear including things like upgrades (cyber&bio) and weapon upgrades, and armor upgrades and. While I think the "Rules are compatible" is being over blown to assume you can just dump a character from one system into another.

I would argue both. As any martial character would fall behind in PF2e if they didn't keep their gear upgrading (runes etc)

I was also thinking it might be cool to have some, I'll use your suggestions, "theme" feats synergize with class.

Like a Soldier who's theme is for the Engineering ship role could have a feat called "Percussive maintenence". Make an attack roll agaisnt the ship's AC. If successful, the ship takes minor damage, but you improve a broken system one step"

But if that Soldier is a Gunner they get abilities to apply their weapons skills to firing. Stuff like that.

She was already a goddess before she died. She had the position Iomedae would later take up. She was champion of Aroden before Iomedae. That's one of the reasons Iomedae is known as the inheritor.

Okay I don't know if anyone else wants this but...

Ship-role feats. Like a special set of feats you can take at certain levels (not replacing other feats) to improve your performance in a ship-role and customize your crew's play style.