Zoken44's page

The monk being the frontline is the expectation. I can discuss the Champion Archetype. the Monk is from Jalmeray

So I would imagine if the two allies are working on the same thing, like attacking the same creature, you could take one action to aid by saying you are attempting to distract the creature.

So, the concept is kind of silly.
They are a group of young women who do pagents around Avistan (and northern Garund). One of their friends is missing, and her mother dead, so they set off to find their friend. Hence no one is too bulky or overtly defensive, and why there is probably a bit of an emphasis on Charisma without a bard.

Okay, so
Cleric (Cloistered) of Shelyn
Druid Leaf Order
Swashbuckler battle Dancer
Thaum definitely has the tome
Monk as an acrobatic performance skill feat, and Reflective Ripple stance.

For... reasons, I'm building a party of characters, and I'm trying to figure out if they are balanced.

So I have a cleric, a Druid, a Monk, a Swashbuckler, and a Thaumaturge (if I can figure out a way to make them "showy").

is this a fairly balanced party?

I think it would depend on how you're preparing to aid. is this a skill feat, General feat, Class feat, or Ancestry feat? Context is important.

so... was that what the Gap was like?

"Void Survival: Unlike normal undead, you aren’t
destroyed when reduced to 0 Hit Points. Instead,
powerful energies attempt to keep you from being
destroyed. You are knocked out and begin dying
when reduced to 0 Hit Points"

This is in the side bar regarding the Corpse Folk's heritage.

Isn't this part of those other options you mentioned?

With the Elebrian I imagine a streamer who grew up on stream and has formed an unhealthy parasocial relationship with his followers online, fueling his Mystic Connection. He genuinely cares about everyone, but also has very little care about himself (always treated like a product or asset, even by his family) so his journey is learning that kindness and care must also be extended to yourself.

Borai's status as "undead" is unclear and complicated giving their bodies are still living (hence not qualifying for negative healing)

As far as SFS goes... yeah, what Squark said.

But in general, this looks cool, another way to play undead, (a first one for SF2e) and an interesting, if sad and hilarious ancestry.

So, this players guide gives us the Elebrians, big headed folk with innate magical sense that are, mostly, kept for entertainment on Eox, and thus they culturally are mostly actors, streamers, and other performers.

You also get Corpsefolk as a versatile Heritage. You are whatever your ancestry was, just undead. with three lineages and lots of necro-tastic feats.

new spells, and new magic items as well, including weapons, like the Replica Zo! Microphone

are Grimoires already a type of Item?

I could see these as a special item that spellbook casters could take (By the way, this also includes the proposed Necromancer who uses their "Dirge". It's "internal" but functions the same way as the spell books and familiars)

They would essentially act as an extra spontaneous list, which you can load with one spell of each rank. and then you could choose to expend any spell slot of the appropriate rank on that spell instead of what was prepared. And Grimoires of different levels would allow you to set spells of various ranks.

OR given they have this unique limitation, perhaps they among spell casters should get and item unique to them to enhance spell casting rolls and DC's?

Yay, update date! We'll see you in a few days!

James, could Pazio look at fixing mythic animal companions make them mythic tracking their masters. The Mythic Beastmaster is just weak compared to the other destinies. Could you also look at making a mythic rogue destiny the rouge is completely lacking in Mythic.

Mythic for Rogue... basically making a Carmen San Diego? Giving them the ability to steal Theoretical things, steal themselves, cross their name off of Pharasma's list, etc.

I could see an archetype built around this concept. You get one weapon for free (per daily prep) that automatically gets one upgrade slot per weapon damage die (thank you Finoan) and your archetype is basically you come from a world that is relatively low-tech, but you somehow got your hands on advance stuff. you still favor the archaic weapons, but have learned to force modern tech into these old-fashioned weapons.

(Admittedly I'm thinking of something along the lines of Horizon Zero Dawn here)

Um... how about doing it indirectly by buffing the Scroll cases?
I think they're a really good idea with a minor limitation, they are technically limited to Rank 1 scrolls as I read them. I would say if you could purchase higher level scroll cases that can accept higher ranked spell scrolls, and cast their listed spells at the same rank as the scroll used (maximum Spell rank should be equal to (item level/2)-1) and maybe add one or two useful higher level spells at the highest levels. This way if you find/made scrolls that you thought would be useful, but you're in a pinch and need a more generally useful spell you don't have at the ready, you can convert that scroll into the more useful spell. and saves you from having to prepare/learn that specific spell, as you don't need to know that spell to use the case, you just need to be able to cast spells of that list.

Good point, I forgot we were only addressing Tiny PC's at this point, and you're absolutely right, it is unlikely petrification would cause them to be more than a bulk.

And what the Sneaker, or Mystic Net says to me is that likely Abadar Corp and other Mega-Corps keep high level Mystics on staff specifically for this in their engineering departments to transfer vital files back and forth quickly and securely.

Also, we need a Mystic connection more centered around Info-Spheres and tech.

I would assume that it would increase the bulk of the creature since it changes you from flesh (various relatively non-dense materials) to solid stone (relatively high density)

To the "Petrify them first" crowd, because I doubt Farien is the only one to think of that. How much does it cost to inflict that condition and to reverse it? also, aren't people more than 1 bulk? Especially if they are petrified.

I think the message system would be an interesting idea, but more in the idea of a sneaker-net type of thing (When certain data files are too big, it is faster to just have the drive you are working on be removable and have it physically moved to the new location for it to be accessed than to transmit it through the normal network) Or as a covert back channel.

I actually like the idea, but specifically designed to be for Starfinder 2e, with new ancestry feats for Golarion ancestries and Class feats for the PF2e classes when they get to space, especially since they moved the existing classes away from being "Rogue IN SPACE" and "fighter IN SPACE"

https://bsky.app/profile/samreich.bsky.social/post/3m3436xerls2o

So, Paizo... any funds left in the marketing budget?
Dropout is home of one of the most popular Actual Play series on the internet and one of the most famous gamemasters.

For information regarding how they spent the $100K that LinkedIn gave them, GameChanger's "Who Want's To be Jacob Wysocki." One of their cast had been having a rough year, including losing his mother, so they did an episode of their show themed around Who wants to be a millionaire that was designed to make him win the $100K, and celebrate the amazing person he is, with big moments to break for sponsorship placement in the most hilarious way possible.

Mind you, Jacob is a guy that when another of their shows put $3K in his pocket, he donated it split between a charity to help revitalize a history town and a local high school marching band.

So I'm thinking a class that is (thematically) all about exploration. The Milo Thatch, the Jim Hawkins, Moana, Starfleet, they want to know what is out there. Eager to reach into the unknown and tell everyone else about it.

Whether for a sense of wonder, a sense of duty, or a sense for profit, you are choosing to boldly go.

I'm thinking something with recall knowledge, but instead of forcing a weakness, like the Thaumaturge, you force the creature to be off guard to you, and then on subsequent turns you can use that recall knowledge to force other effects and statuses on them, especially based on subclass. but it would always use survival, which would auto scale, instead of the normal recall knowledge checks.

It's my thread and I'll Necro if I want to.

Saw something mentioned in another thread and it made me think: Yeah, there should be a class for that: The Survival Skill.

I mean we're talking about deep space, the final frontier, blah-blah-blah. There should be a class, probably a support oriented one, where they have a focus on survival and wisdom. but with subclasses depending on what kind of environment they want to survive in.

I don't know what their central gimmick would be. but any ideas?

I didn't think the Whispering Way was a religion, just a group loyal to Tar-Baphon, and eager to grant him more power. am I mistaken there?

And as for the Prophets of Callistrade I think the issue there is philosophical. They don't believe in doing something for nothing, so the idea of having clerics or champions who have power without actively paying for it, would be anathema on it's own.

Okay, firs thing is utterly petty and nit-picky... ninja didn't wear black, they work dark blue.

for weapons I would include rope darts as well.

I would consider the name or flavor of some of your feats.

"Avoid Creaking floors" sounds like it should be letting you move at full speed while sneaking, not searching.

is this supposed to be like an idea for an Archetype? you refer to "body guard" on several occasions not really clear what that's about.

I love the idea of a shinobi archetype or class. but while the feats are giving it a good bit of identity, I would try and find a core mechanic to this idea, something that the dedication feat would grant.

Heads up, only place I could think to talk about this: I am scheduled to start at the same time as the Cosplay Contest.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I allowed for that, and I'm pretty sure the audience overlap isn't severe, but yeah.

Sort of an odd idea that just occurred to me:

A Yaoguai or Tsukumogami Poppet that IS the legendary weapon (which also serves as their weapon Ikon).

as you pointed out, Prophesy is broken, if it was every real in the first place.

Further you pointed out that the cycle of souls is a force beyond her that she is manipulating. and would eventually come to a stop to end the universe, so she artificially forces this to continue through the manipulation of the cycle of souls.

Also, I didn't say she was acting outside the cycle of souls, but outside the cycle of Life and Death, the gods can die. We've just had a rather vivid demonstration of that.

With Prophesy broken she is now just a witch manipulating souls to make sure a future she wants, and only that future comes to pass. Sounds like a necromancer to me.

So if a necromancer's bloody sacrifices of lesser animals and rituals had a side effect of helping the local crops come in plentiful and robust, would you no loner consider what they did evil, again assuming this was done with void energy?

Furthermore, from her perspective, she is artificially extending her life by manipulating the flow of souls, this flies in the face of her stated concept of to everything a time to be born and a time to die.

(To be clear, this more of a devil's advocate thing I'm doing here, because I find this an interesting metaphysical and moral discussion, and presenting the arguments that I think Ethical necromancers would give for their activities)

If Pharasma is so justified in prolonging her own life, OUTSIDE the cycle of life and death, then why should we not be able to?

The Raven Black wrote:

Again, Pharasma being 100% opposed to undead is not what makes them, or creating them, evil, or Evil.

They could be the epitome of Good and she would not treat them any differently.

She is the caretaker of the cycle of souls, undeath prevents the soul from flowing, and for Pharasma, the only thing that matters is that the souls must flow.

But the flowing of souls extends the lifespan of the current Universe. Is that not a good thing?

Wait... the flowing of souls extends the life span of the current universe, and thusly I would assume, Pharasma's existence too. She's a hypocrite. She's using souls in this cycle to extend existence, and thus her own personal existence... much like a necromancer might.

Necromancy, more and more, is kind of junk, and should just be removed from the game, rather than all sorts of arbitrary 'some god says you are destroying the universe by using it!' not-really-rules.

Save the space in the book for stuff we are supposed to use (and not going to be judged for using, or even finding interesting)!

If we're wishing for things, I'd like to wish for the introduction of a benevolent god of undeath, governing over those who "naturally" rise, or are turned against their will, or come to reject the callousness of the more "traditional" undead.

Or a diety of undeath presiding over those with unfinished business, or denied lives.

The idea (especially with the introduction of the Necromancer) of an understanding of necromancy that isn't necessarily about binding and using full souls, but using void energy and an animating force, no different than using arcane energies for an animating force (creating constructs)

Zoken44 wrote:

From a narrative/meta stand point I find it unfulfilling and cheap to just say "This type of magic automatically corrupts you and is default evil".

Power corrupting makes sense, we see that all the time.

But again, the fact that you can do some of the exact same things and not be considered automatically evil just because you didn't involve the dead/undead seems hypocritical.

But that's a personal perspective, I understand that the game's Lore is different.

TBH I see nothing that is like undead:

Extremely dangerous
Potentially immortal
Tends to attacks the living

Arsonists have a similar bent to undead crafters but the result fits only the first point. Yet it is enough to have them feared and imprisoned (at least).

Nothing is like the undead?

Extremely Dangerous: Are you saying that pyromantic magic isn't extremely dangers and liable to get away from someeone who isn't careful?
That there are no other ways of achieving immortality (Nex would beg to differ)
Tends to attack the Living: Carnivores and omnivores, and animal will do that including if it's magically summoned.

let me add some stuff: Binding a soul against their will: summonned fey, Elementals, Fiends, Celestials, etc...

Again, yes, In Golarion as it exists in PF2e, Necromancy is cannonically evil and corrupting and blah, blah, blah. I just don't find that interesting narratively. and at my table, it would be more complicated than that.

From a narrative/meta stand point I find it unfulfilling and cheap to just say "This type of magic automatically corrupts you and is default evil".

Power corrupting makes sense, we see that all the time.

But again, the fact that you can do some of the exact same things and not be considered automatically evil just because you didn't involve the dead/undead seems hypocritical.

But that's a personal perspective, I understand that the game's Lore is different.

The only reason I will argue against Mr. Kane is he tends to play his fighter mans as smart with lots of hidden depths, Valeros is a very competant fighter, but he's also a himbo.

That's the thing, You know the sewer system in a Golarion city is really well maintained if you see a FEW Kobolds (or other tunneling species) walking the streets. Seeing none implies they aren't allowed and are being mistreated or that they aren't there. Seeing a LOT of them implies that for some reason they no longer find the sewers habitable and are being forced above ground (but upside it's an accepting town)

So without question the last few posts do make it rather clear that in universe, PF2e setting, Undeath is "bad"(Unholy/Evil/etc). (no sarcasm)

I just from a meta perspective remain frustrated by that. If there can be good PC's who are undead, that means logically an undead can be a good person. If any undead can be a good person , that means they cannot be universally evil. Further I find it more narratively interesting if they aren't, and the reality is simply that the most powerful and well known undead ALSO happen to be powerful wizards and rich nobles. They simply use their undeath as an excuse to indulge in their worst impulses, and their empathy for the living is dulled by their wealth and power.

Given that the same or comparable effects can be achieved with other magics that are not considered "evil" or "Unholy" I question the moral judgement that gets thrown on there. I reject the idea of absolute morality being derived from a divine being, given divinities in this universe are not infallible.

The term graft was introduced in HotW, but the concept was introduced earlier in SF1e. It could be more than just animal parts, It could also be mechanical bits, and actual undead tissue.

I'm sorry, which nation on Golarion (or earth for that matter) has zero poor or oppressed people? Andoran? Nope, poor people there. Absolom, nope, they got poverty. Hermea, sort of, but you must OBEY the "Benevolent" dragon.

I'm not saying Geb is perfect, I'm saying that they are a nation that doesn't stigmatize necromancy and they make it work, and are becoming slowly more progressive.

1: I don't need any of you to agree to anything. I would like y'all to accept that it's a valid perspective to hold, but I can't make anyone do anything.

2: I thought this was a meta-discussion of the ethics as we saw it, informed my the known and unknown mechanics in universe. Not the ethics from the point of view of only the in-universe majority

3: Frankly I don't mean to be as confrontational as I come off, but some of these points do not make sense to me. The behaviors we bemoan about the undead are largely things that are true of any carnivorous or omnivorous creature. and we pretend that they can be both sapient/sentient and universally evil, and like we don't find that perspective grotesquely simplistic when we apply it to other peoples in the setting (or real world). Other than "It has to be this way for the plot to make sense" or "It has to be this way so we have always-evil baddies to fight" I don't get it.

an eternal hunger? You mean like the one in your belly? Of will there be a point at which you will never be hungry again? and are you saying that if you were under the pain of starvation, there are lines you would not cross to keep yourself alive (sane in the case of undead)?

Also, you all act like the only perspective on Golarion is that "Undead is bad". There is a whole kingdom where that's not the case, one that is a huge stable trading partner with Absolom and other countries.

I thought this was a discussion about the ethics of necromancy in universe. I didn't bring up our real world first in relation to this topic or taboos first, I responded to the concept that was posed to me.

TO BE CLEAR I am not trying to imply that anyone here is anything-phobic, or that these things are the same, I'm poking holes in the logic being presented to me.

Pharasma declares it: Appeal to authority, and similar authority is frequently wrong or biased

They are dangerous: Yes, So are a lot of things in Golarion that aren't treated with near this level of stigmatism

Taboos about Death: Appeal to tribalism, and as I pointed out taboos are not always a good thing.

Similar practices and effects are done in all forms of magic and (from an in-universe perspective) what is the difference between binding a spirit necromantically and binding a fey, fiend, or elemental? What is the difference between making a construct and a mindless undead? What is the difference between an undead's desire for flesh/blood and any living omnivore or carnivore's desire for meat?

I think they did what they did with the Soldier and Operative because those were derivative. They had intentionally been created as "Fighter in Space" and "Rogue In space" in first edition. So in second edition they gave them their own roles and spaces to fill.

Evolutionist already has that, It's all about the Grafts, and that is a common theme for sci-fi/sci-fantasy heroes.

Also, I think the animist wasn't called "The Binder" for both the OGL/ORC split reasons, and because "The Binder" would be causing giggles.

So a lot of you talk about the disposal via the creatures in the sewers, but I'm going to talk about the creation of the sewars themselves. There are numerous ancestries in Golarion that have a reputation for burrowing and tunnelling. a clever Mayor or other city official can easily work out a deal with the local Kobold nest to create the city's sewer system for for certain concessions. and a reasonably clever Kobold nest would eagerly take the contract to create elaborate tunnels beneath the tall folk's feet... including plenty of tunnels the tall folk are never told about.

Wow, that's an interesting point... you know what else there used to be a huge taboo about?

Wolves. Wolves were a shoot on sight animal for much of human history. But we know a lot more about them now and understand how important they are for their ecosystem.

Also, because I know what the rebuttle will be to that comment, if Undead are inheriently "unnatural" why do natural undead occur (the book of the dead makes it clear that undead can form without any intent from any party, just from ambient magic)

There is a taboo about death, because death is a universal fear. it's why those who handle the dead used to be considered "unclean" and in some cultures was only done by the lowest of castes.

Also, if we want to talk about who breaks major taboos... really? There are a lot of taboos in the real world that are being broken, and for good reason: Talking about mental health, coming out as queer, asking for help.

So When it comes to Necro Ethics I have to ask a few questions from the necromancer's point of view:

Why is an undead's need to feed different from a living creature's need to feed? Especially if they can be ethically sourced (nothing in the undead hunger sections indicates that they must feed from SAPIENT life)

A mindless undead will lash out and attack... so will wild animals.

You magically animated a gust of wind or rock, or a doll. How are you better than me magically animating bones?

You bound an elemental/angel/demonic creature/fey to your service... how are you better than me binding a mortal soul to mine?

We accept that many gods can be quite fallible. As lovable and admirable as the Accidental God is, we know he can make drunken mistakes. We recognize that Shelyn has a blind spot when it comes to Zon-Kuthon, her brother who wants only to inflict pain. Sarenrae demands truth, but we all know those who the truth would hurt. So why can we not accept that Pharasma may be mistaken in her pogrom against undeath?

None of this is to say that Undeath is never taken advantage of, or abused by those who crave power, and yes there are aspects of it that particularly appeal to those who would do so, but that does not mean that all who practice and wield these powers cruel or malevolent or predatory.

I had an alchemical familiar doing this for me on a bomber alchemist.

The problem with that take is that the Evolutionist is not about turning into animals. It's about grafts/implants that include cybernetics and Necrografts in addition to bio-mechanics.