The PostMonster General wrote:
A warrior of the holy light does not gain any spells or spellcasting abilities, does not have a caster level, and cannot use spell trigger or spell completion magic items.
In regards to the Use Magic Device skill, does this mean a WotHL is treated as a character who doesn't have a spell list (e.g. rogue with a wand), or does this mean you cannot use spell trigger items, period, ever, even with UMD?
First, I would mine some good heist movies for ideas (Rififi, The Italian job, Heist, etc.)
Do you want to run the whole heist in one session, or build it up a bit? If you choose the second route, you have more options for story-building and suspense. The PCs need to case the location and come up with a plan; they need to get someone on the "inside;" they need to track down an expert NPC and convince him/her to help them.
As for the heist itself, First there should be plenty of obstacles that the PCs are able to overcome because they planned well (PCs slipping in between guard shifts & locating a key to an inner area that they've learned a guard leaves in a secret spot so his lover can sneak in; sleeping draughts in the guard dogs' drinking water; disarming magic traps).
Deeper in, there should be some unforseen obstacles that require quick thinking to deal with (a magic lock keyed to a particular voice that the PCs might bluff their way past; a puzzle trap; an important item, perhaps the loot itself, not being in the place it is supposed to be).
Play to your PCs' strengths and give them opportunities to use all their skills and abilities. Check your player's sheets for those skills they've been putting ranks into but rarely come up in the game.
Make sure you have a way for the PCs to pull an inelegant smash-and-grab if they set off an alarm and things go pear-shaped. Likewise, they should have a plan B.
Heists are all about the best laid plans working wonderfully, right up to the point where they don't.
Right. plus "A rogue can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps."
Any class can use disable device, but only a class with Trapfinding can disarm magical traps. Eric and Kaiyanwang assert that spells like alarm and magic mouth are magical traps and should be subject to disable device. The rules however, disagree, and this is the sticking point.
We can all argue until we're blue in the face over what a "trap" really is, but in a gray area like this (and there are many, many gray areas in the PFRPG rules), This stuff should be left for individual GMs to rule.
It's a slippery slope when you start applying hard and fast rules to things. Should one be able to use Disable Device against a magic mouth that's clearly not employed as a trap or alarm, and does that tread on the role of the magic user? Can illusory script be a magical trap?
There are even different rules that govern Perception vs. magical hazards like spike stones and teleportation circle. Wouldn't handling magical alarms in this way be more appropriate? Of course, that would mean that other classes could also deal with them effectively.
This argument seems to be more about some strongly held perceptions about what the Rogue's role in a party really is, and the truth of the matter is that this is completely up to the player and GM to define. The rules are just a guideline.
Just so we're on the same page-- the issue here isn't that it is impossible for Rogues to deal with magical alarms, but that they should be able to deal with them specifically through the Trapfinding class ability, because it takes away from the Rogue's sauce when other classes can do his iconic "thing."
That is what this boils down to, yes?
I use the PRD almost exclusively when I prepare my sessions. Five days out of the week my books sit on shelves, but I can't imagine playing without books at the table. My group (total of 7) has 3 Core books and it always seems like we could use 1 or 2 more, particularly when it's time to level.
I'm really happy to see stuff like the APG content included. Seems to me like Paizo is going above and beyond with the PRD.
Eric The Pipe wrote:
You're acting like this is some unstoppable combo that completely nullifies a Rogue. The many ways that magic mouth can be nullified have been pointed out.
You want it done in a way such that a rogue needn't use UMD, multi-classing, or the abilities of allies to do it. This can be done through magic items. Your 20th-level rogue doesn't have a ring, or even potion, of invisibility? Enter, trigger the alarm, find a good hiding place inside, and wait until things die down.
If you think you should be able to take on challenges without having to rely on magic gear, you are playing a different game than the rest of us.
Also, does your Rogue not case the places he's planning on breaking into? In this impenetrable fortress of a thousand magic mouths triggered to windows and doors, are there no chimneys? No way to tunnel in from below? How do the owners enter and leave? Maybe some research is required, disguise yourself if necessary, etc. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Trapfinding is not the end-all, be-all of the Rogue.
In a world where the only way for a Rogue to gain entry to someplace is to come through a door or window, yeah, this combo would be pretty potent.
Your arguments are valid, I just don't think magic mouth is a trap, and RAW agrees. On the other hand, RAW doesn't think sepia snake sigil is a trap either, which is a bit weird.
But here's a question for you: Should Rogues be able to disarm illusory script with disable device? Because I can definitely see how a clever use of this spell could be used as a trap or trigger for one, sort of like a low-level symbol of persuasion. There's that slippery slope I was talking about earlier.
As for hide in plain sight, I totally agree with you. How Rangers get that and Rogues don't, I'll never know. But that's getting a bit off-topic.
I see your point, and fully realize that this is pretty much an argument in semantics at this point. But a symbol trap gets triggered and does something directly to the person who triggered it. An alarm does not do this.
Not necessarily a case of "spellcasters will manage it." I said a solo rogue can handle these situations and I stand by that assertion. If you want to talk about a Rogue with no access to magic items, well, that's another case.
But that's just it. The Rogue can defeat these measures, she just has to use means other than a single specific class ability. I'm still not convinced this is broken.
Trapfinding applies to traps. Spells like alarm and magic mouth are a different type of magical defense, but they aren't traps. A solo rogue has other reasonable ways to deal with these spells. Working as Intended, IMO.
I don't think it's overpowered to rule that these spells count as magical traps, but I'm worried that it may open a door to other interpretive abuses.
I think this is an overestimation of what the Rogue's Trapfinding ability can do. If you disagree and want to house rule it, by all means, go to it, that's what house rules are for!
But the way this works isn't broken. These spells are not traps, because they don't cause direct harm.
A rogue (and his friends) all have a number of other ways of defeating these spells, and if we're really talking about 20th-level heists, a couple of 1st and 2nd level spells are going to be the least of your worries. :)
I fail to see how any of this is a problem for a 20th-level Rogue. Stealth + invisibility or magical darkness and you're done.
Or just get the magic mouth inside an area of magical silence and let the thing go off.
Another tip-off is the fact that nowhere in the description of magic mouth does it say at what volume the mouth speaks, what range it can project its voice to, whether it can be muffled while it is talking, or even if it gets a perception check to detect silent movement-- all of which are your GM's call, and all of which tell me that this spell was never really intended to be a trap.
If some clever person wants to employ the spell as an alarm, that's all well and good, but its limitations don't make it overpowering in this regard.
And speaking of alarms, how is magic mouth worse than the alarm spell (which is also not a magical trap!)?
Chris Ballard wrote:
Would bracers of armor be considered as armor for the purpose of whether a monk's class abilities work or not?
Nope! "When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load" affects those abilities. Bracers of armor are a wondrous item, and are not considered armor.
In my last campaign, my players left their mounts alone in the forest near a gateway to the Fey realm, and I had a satyr come along and impregnate one of the horses. Sadly, the party druid figured it out before the mare gave birth, and they killed the horse.
But usually, I don't mess with mounts too much.
First, let me say bravo: your house rules are awesome.
I'm thinking about cribbing Battle Fatigue for my current game, but I have a couple of questions pertaining to how the mechanic interacts with "regular" fatigue.
I've had great times running a purely evil game. As other have said, it all depends on your players. My campaign ended up running about 3 years and ended at high-level. We all had a blast playing it and recall it fondly, even the PCs who were brutally betrayed and ganked.
The most important thing is finding a plausible way to both keep the party together and keep them from killing one another, or at least for party PvP to have serious repercussions. In my campaign I did this by plopping a crazy-powerful artifact in their midst that gave them all sweet powers and let them come back from the dead, but also drove them all slowly and inevitably insane.
The inevitable PvP did occur, but always with the knowledge that whomever the player screwed over would eventually come back. It ended up pretty adversarial at the end, but the players put a great deal of thought into it, and there was an awesome amount of Machiavellian scheming and backroom-alliance-forging.
In the end, evil campaigns aren't that much different than the standard "good" game-- PCs need far-reaching, long-term goals to strive toward, and the DM needs a good reason for the party to stick together, as well as a plausible adversary. Everything else that happens is up to the maturity and comfort level of the group.
I would probably rule to let speak with dead work (of course, having it not work might give the players a valuable clue), and when the players did cast the spell, I would put something (or coach the dead player, if he's going to NPC his own corpse) in the corpse's cryptic answer that indicated that not all was as it should be (apart from being dead!), like complaining that his veins itched or something.
Definitely Privateer Press' Iron Kingdoms, for
- Expanded alchemy rules
Mostly the Pain of Healing, because it's so damn cool. Divine healers get a daily hp threshold for healing, and if they surpass it, it's time to roll randomly for nastiness. This rule led to some awesomely tense moments in my games and really kicks the banality out of healing. If a cleric took Healing as one of his domains he could double the threshold and mostly avoid the badness.
Well, as stated on p. 35 of the Guide to Absalom, Nuar is a medium-sized minotaur... The title is a pun on his size and the fact that he was/is a spiritual intermediary.
Here is my rejected submission. I welcome your critique!
#2: The topiary animals in the hedge maze are animated by the loosed energies of the spirit world. Topiary guardians use the stat blocks of the animals they represent and are vulnerable to fire (reduce HD for large-sized guardians to make it less deadly for Tier 1-2).
#3: The PCs arrive at the docks in time to see their crate taken from a ship and lowered by the great arm of The Beast into the bowels of a warehouse. The PCs will need to get past stubborn warehouse guard Forkmistress Kolz and her clockwork dog Ibix. Kolz has a heart of stone but clearly cares for her mechanical pet with the love of a mother, a fact that clever PCs should use to their advantage. This encounter could be a tough combat but is more rewarding if the PCs avoid a fight.
#4: Inside the warehouse, a group of dockworkers (human warriors, plus a half-orc for tier 4-5) have set up an impromptu game of chance right atop the Grandmaster's crate. The PCs might join the gambling as a distraction while one stealthily extracts the contents of the crate. Or the PCs could lie, flirt, or simply smash and grab then run like hell.
The PCs may choose which way to handle the final encounter:
#5: Enter the spirit world with Iaude and help Nuar destroy a terrifying manifestation of his regrets and fears. Tier 1-2: Shadow (CR 3, but PCs get help from Iaude and Nuar). Tier 4-5: Wraith.
#6: Pull Nuar forcefully out of the spirit world, in which case he will be weakened, but disoriented and violent. The PCs will have to subdue him without hurting him. Tier 1-2: medium-sized minotaur, unarmed. Tier 4-5: medium-sized minotaur, armed, plus a swarm of shadowy-looking ravens.
Given the above points, no I don't think it's overpowered, and a reading of the spell can reasonably do away with the first two abusive situations (PCs "kiting" the victim + the scenario given by The Wraith):
"Any confused character who is attacked automatically attacks its attackers on its next turn."
Any party casting this spell are undoubtedly the "attackers" in question. The Wraith's group of enemies would either seek out their attackers (the party) or fall to the first caveat of the spell:
"A confused character who can’t carry out the indicated action does nothing but babble incoherently."
For questions about who an attacker is in terms of an undetectable party, we can look to the invisibility spell description:
"For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe."
As a DM, I'd feel comfortable applying the spirit of the invisibility text and saying that the caster of confusion and any friend of his should be designated as "attackers."
Only you. As the feat says, when you trip an opponent, it provokes an AoO. If your party members don't have Greater Trip, they can't make an AoO, as listed in "Normal". If they do have it, they didn't trip the opponent, so no AoO.
That was my initial impression, but the descriptive text is at odds with the Benefit text. To clarify, it should read:
"Benefit: Whenever you successfully trip an opponent, that opponent provokes an attack of opportunity from you."
To say that the opponent simply "provokes an attack of opportunity" implies that anyone who threatens may take an AoO, and contradicts the descriptive text.
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Does the opponent provoke an AoO from only the person who performed the trip or from anyone who threatens?
Stephen Ingram wrote:
It sounds to me that this Ability can be used against all Foes that the Barbarian Attack that round. If they have 3 attacks, 3 Monsters go flying.
That's what it sounds like to me as well, but I was confused by the last sentence. "this power is used as a swift action before any attacks are made."
any of whose attacks?
What if an enemy attacks on the barbarian's round through a readied action, AoO or immediate action? Can the barbarian still use the power?
Thus the clarification.
The Pathfinder RPG, Alpha 3, p. 14 wrote:
Knockback (Ex): Anyone hit by the barbarian’s melee attacks this round is pushed back 5 feet, if possible. This power is used as a swift action before any attacks are made.
Clarification is needed in the language of this power I think, specifically the last sentence. I was puzzled for some time before I sussed out the intention of the description. I think changing the wording of the last sentence like so would clear things up a bit:
"Activating this power is a swift action. The Barbarian must choose whether to use this power before her first attack is made."
The Pathfinder RPG, Alpha 3, p. 14 wrote:
Mighty Swing (Ex): The barbarian automatically confirms a critical hit. This power is used as an immediate action once a critical threat has been determined. A barbarian must be at least 8th level before selecting this power. (8 rage points)
The way this power is worded sounds like the barbarian is forced to use it whenever she threatens a critical. Suggest changing the language to something like:
"The barbarian may choose to automatically confirm a critical hit. Activating this power is an immediate action that occurs once a critical threat has been determined. A barbarian must be at least 8th level before selecting this power. (8 rage points)"