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My Big overall question I'm trying to get at is If dervish dance will work with spell combat or not?


dragonhunterq wrote:

What exactly are you trying to clarify, because your question, as posed, has one clear cut answer: Magic is not a weapon.

Magic can sometimes create a weapon-like effect, and rays and touch spells share certain similarities to weapons and can benefit from certain effects (such as bards inspire courage) in the same way weapons can.
Still, fundamentally, magic is not actually a weapon.

Im trying to clarify for the Magus Builds that use Dervish dance.

since the conflicting feat fencing grace there has been a lot of misconceptions on how spell combat works.
"This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast."


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I had a question about spell combat. specifically How it is worded.

Class Feature Spell Combat:
At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.

While this is all fine and good The part I want to look at is this

"This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast."

Is Magic Considered a weapon?
Wanting to get an answer For this I looked at the PRG:CR (Core rule book) to get a clearer definition. This is what I found

from Pg206 Pathfinder roleplaying game core rulebook :
From creating a whisp of light to causing the ground itself to shatter and break, spells are a source of immense power. a spell is a one-time magical effect. Spells come in two types: Arcane ( cast by bards, Sorcerers, and wizards) and divine (cast by clerics, druids, and experienced paladins and rangers). Some spellcasters select their spells from a limited list of spells known, while others have access to a wide variety of options.
Most spellcasters prepare spells in advance-whether from a spellbook or through prayers-while some cast spells spontaneously without preparation. Despite these different ways characters use to learn or prepare their spells, when it comes to casting them, the spells are very much alike.

Casting Spells

Whether a spell is arcane or divine, and whether a character prepares spells in advance or chooses them on the spot, casting a spell works the same way.
Choosing a Spell

First you must choose which spell to cast. If you're a cleric, druid, experienced paladin, experienced ranger, or wizard, you select from among spells prepared earlier in the day and not yet cast (see Preparing Wizard Spells and Preparing Divine Spells).

If you're a bard or sorcerer, you can select any spell you know, provided you are capable of casting spells of that level or higher.

To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.

If a spell has multiple versions, you choose which version to use when you cast it. You don't have to prepare (or learn, in the case of a bard or sorcerer) a specific version of the spell.

Once you've cast a prepared spell, you can't cast it again until you prepare it again. (If you've prepared multiple copies of a single spell, you can cast each copy once.) If you're a bard or sorcerer, casting a spell counts against your daily limit for spells of that spell level, but you can cast the same spell again if you haven't reached your limit.

If we can come to a clarified definition of what a spell is and how it apply to the wording we can then start Figuring out other things such as the dervish dance wording Vs the slashing grace wording.

And If we do clarify that spells are weapons then at what point are they? when I start casting or when I deliver the spell?

What do you guys think?


I have personally played a Kitsune for Two different adventures and I have to say that it is One of the most interesting races to play. The race gives you a lot of things that makes your character really pop. You have a human form a Anthro form, and at some point you can have a normal fox form.

My latest character Warder is a Kitsune Rogue who was adopted by humans at an early age. So he tends to use his human form all the time trying to fit in with the community trying not to be ridiculed and hated. However when he is asleep/ knocked out he returns to his Anthro form. This gave me a wide range of role playing options and a lot of situations where I could be found out at any time by my fellow adventurers. If your interested you can watch it here on youtube.

Granted I think that the Kitsune race is lacking in the luster department due to lack of popularity. And yes I would love to see a little more attention to the things that Kitsune can do and there culture in a game setting. However I also think that this makes the Kitsune have its own personal charm.

Its not constricted like some races are. The Core races are good examples of this. Dwarfs are typically thought of having been raised in mountain strongholds. the Elf race are thought of as growing up loving the wildlife. Even some rare races like the Drow who are feminists and always evil. (Not that I am saying that every character needs to fallow these assumptions that I grew up with. I would actually not encourage to follow these ideas. Its good to have a Drizzt in the party.)

The Kitsune don't have things like that holding them down. As I see it the Kitsune can be tweaked to look a certain way to refer to where they come from just as Kuzunoha Kaijitsu Suggested

Kuzunoha Kaijitsu wrote:
" I'm going to love slipping into the culture while I add in a prominent Fennec-folk NPC for my players to find."

So maybe the Kitsune would look like a Fennec fox instead of the usual Red fox. And if its from the arctic maybe the snow white arctic fox? The rules don't say that these features are set in stone so why not take take that into advantage?