Product wish: Kitsune Player Companion


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Scarab Sages

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Duiker wrote:
Our local game shop runs around four tables, twice a week. I saw a single kitsune character a year ago, and none since. The race is mostly a laughing stock, as in the sort of player that plays it is the sort that would have played a kender fifteen years ago. In other words, my own anecdotal evidence is that there would be less than no interest.

So you've seen one kitsune player in the past year and you feel confident enough to stereotype all kitsune players and all kitsune characters as "the disruptive type of player who would want to play a Kender?"

I agree that your evidence is anecdotal. For that reason, you shouldn't use generalities like, "The race is mostly a laughing stock."

Yes, I viciously generalized from a small sample size, while explicitly acknowledging I was doing so. The only difference between my post and half the rest of the ones in here is that it's doing so in the opposite of the direction you agree with.

Contributor

Duiker wrote:
Yes, I viciously generalized from a small sample size, while explicitly acknowledging I was doing so. The only difference between my post and half the rest of the ones in here is that it's doing so in the opposite of the direction you agree with.

Acknowledging that your post is an anecdote does not protect your comment from criticism when that anecdote is laced with acidic generalizations. I wouldn't have commented if you hadn't generalized that "the race is mostly a laughing stock, as in the sort of player that plays it is the sort that would have played a kender."

I am not the sort of player who plays the kender. I am the sort of player who plays kitsune. Therefore, your generalization is a poor one. As you've noted, there are people who would tend to agree with you in this thread. I respect their opinions because all of those other posts respect kitsune players. Making comments like, "the sort of player that plays it is the sort that would have played a kender fifteen years ago," is a direct jab at anyone who plays the race.

Here's an example of feedback you could have given that does not have a generalization that amounts to slamming kitsune players:

Generalization Fixed wrote:
Our local game shop runs around four tables, twice a week. I saw a single kitsune character a year ago, and none since. That character was mostly a laughing stock and the player who played it was the same type of player who would have played a kender fifteen years ago. In other words, my own anecdotal evidence is that there would be less than no interest.

Shadow Lodge

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Kitsune are to life, as is cheese to a cheeseburger or something.

So I concur. And just add a Tian Xia and Vudra Campaign Hardcover while you are at it :)


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The world has a lot of stories about ravens & crows. Goofy tricksters,Wise Sages, sinister omens of death and the demonic.There is enough out there to beef up the tengu

Lantern Lodge

Hayato Ken wrote:

Yeah catfolk would make that problematic probably.

A Tian Xia theme might be possible, Kitsune, Tengu and Wayang, maybe add Samsaran and Nagaji. But that would already be a bit much for a player companion i guess.

Id like to see all of those in a Companion Book - along with a more in-depth look at Tian classes; such as Ninja and Samurai\Ronin.

Also more Ninja APs or Modules.


It'd be cool to see Kitsune outside of the Dragon Empires (like the reynard example), but I'd wonder how they'd market it. Maybe they'd include new Kitsune inspiration for a setting book that shows how this branch of the race lives compared to the Dragon Empire counterparts. It has already appeared in two different titles. Plus, I dunno if we'd see any direct Tian Xia support for a long time (considering that there was direct support for a while) So, if not a spot in another piece of Golarion's setting, that would mean the kitsune would probably share space in a Beastfolk Races book or something like that. The race is cool, but I'm trying to figure if kitsune could support itself in an entire book and be a success. Maybe, but would the folk at the office want to do it?

Dark Archive

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A Katapeshi / Thuvian variant of Kitsune, associated with jackals and heat mirages and trickery, crying like a lost child to lead people astray in the desert and get them lost, or an Arcadian 'coyote-trickster' version, statistically no different than 'eastern' Kitsune, but with different legends and assumptions, could work.

They could even take human form and spread disinformation about their nature in areas they frequent, so that the locals 'know' about the skulking chupacabra, who steal livestock and small shiny objects, completely unaware that there are no such creatures, only the tricksters, who spread lies and blame their own actions on mythical beasts.

Contributor

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The wonderful thing about foxes is that they are found on every continent in the world (sans Antarctica) and virtually every culture in the world has the same type of myths about them: intelligent tricksters. Foxes are like dragons in this regard; they are something of a universal myth between cultures that have never had contact with one another.

In my opinion, one of the most interesting bits about the kitsune isn't what was written about them, but what wasn't written about them. Specifically, it is never mentioned what a kitsune's human form looks like in the Dragon Empire Primer. This is made even more interesting when you figure that kitsune are found in a wide variety of human lands: in a sense, they're the halflings of Tian Xia because they dwell among humans. Between the fact that they can seemingly blend in anywhere and the fact that some kitsune can readily choose what their human form looks like (Realistic Likeness), maybe that human form isn't set in stone: maybe it can be altered by genetics through human-kitsune pairings.

You could half silver-coated Ulfen kitsune living at the Crown of the World, tan-coated Osirion kitsune dwelling in the dessert nations of the Inner Sea, or a family of red-coated Varisian kitsune gypsies wandering about the countryside (which seems VERY appropriate for the kitsune race, in my opinion).


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Wow that´s a real good idea Set!

You could have different Kitsune Clans live all over the world, coming together in a big meeting every now and then and haggling over their claims, weaving great fox magic spells, hiding parts of their fey world and domains from humans right before your eyes.
Like a park in a city could actually house a huge "fox-hole", with some members of that clan in the city council, ruling the lives of humans hehe.

Silver Crusade

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Ahem, if I might sneak in here and give my two CP.
@Hayato: It's possible but unlikely to see a Kitsune of Golarion book for the same reason there's not been a "Strix of Golarion" or "Duergar of Golarion" book. Although the kitsune stats have been reprinted in the ARG, the core RPG books are setting agnostic and fluff-light.

With the core focus of the setting as the Inner Sea Region, Paizo's been intentionally cautious about venturing off the map. It took years to get supplements about the Dragon Empires, and then they were shorter softcovers and also tied and timed to both the PFS metaplot for the season and an adventure path, both of which are the major bed and butter for the brand and setting as a whole.

Lisa Stevens has said several times that one of the lessons learned from the TSR days is not to split your audience, and to some gamers, "Asian"-themed setting material doesn't jive with their table's preferences. Paizo's kitchen sink/compartmentalization and "test the waters" approach are a method to give spice and variety without splitting up their core audience.

So for the same reasons there's not been a hardcover on Ilbydos or player companion on Vudra, it may be a while before Paizo dives back into Tian Xia whole hog. Or not. I'm not privvy to Paizo's plans. Much. :)

<Shameless Plug>
I can't offer you kitsune-in-Golarion stuff except as a "what I would do for my game" suggestion as a fellow fan. I can, as a 3PP freelancer, offer some non-Golarion-IP deliciousness that builds on what Paizo has already laid out for the fox folk:
Rogue Genius's Races Revised: The Kitsune Clans.
The original Super Genius version netted a nice review from Endzeitgeist. ~_^
</Shameless Plug>

That said, nothing wrong with making noise and showing Paizo there's interest in a topic. They do like listening to their customers. :)


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Please oh yes please give us a Kitsune of Golarion book!!!!


Alex Putnam wrote:

Ahem, if I might sneak in here and give my two CP.

@Hayato: It's possible but unlikely to see a Kitsune of Golarion book for the same reason there's not been a "Strix of Golarion" or "Duergar of Golarion" book. Although the kitsune stats have been reprinted in the ARG, the core RPG books are setting agnostic and fluff-light.

With the core focus of the setting as the Inner Sea Region, Paizo's been intentionally cautious about venturing off the map. It took years to get supplements about the Dragon Empires, and then they were shorter softcovers and also tied and timed to both the PFS metaplot for the season and an adventure path, both of which are the major bed and butter for the brand and setting as a whole.

Lisa Stevens has said several times that one of the lessons learned from the TSR days is not to split your audience, and to some gamers, "Asian"-themed setting material doesn't jive with their table's preferences. Paizo's kitchen sink/compartmentalization and "test the waters" approach are a method to give spice and variety without splitting up their core audience.

So for the same reasons there's not been a hardcover on Ilbydos or player companion on Vudra, it may be a while before Paizo dives back into Tian Xia whole hog. Or not. I'm not privvy to Paizo's plans. Much. :)

The thing that seems odd about this to me though... is that Paizo has been publishing books on races that simply aren't playable for most groups. Orcs, Kobolds, and Goblins are both (generally) evil and generally have stat spreads that are not attractive to players.

You would think that even though kitsune are from an 'off map' area and aren't as ingrained into the roleplaying culture as some other races that they would do better than some of these other player companion books simply because they are more playable.

Still though, I wouldn't be surprised that if they are ever reprinted it will be in some sort of multi-race book.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Orcs, Kobolds and Goblins of Golarion, honestly, rather baffle me. I don't know what the thought process behind them was. I suppose I can understand goblins as a key monster of the Pathfinder brand, but the other two...are there really more players who want to play kobolds than, say, drow?


Set wrote:

A Katapeshi / Thuvian variant of Kitsune, associated with jackals and heat mirages and trickery, crying like a lost child to lead people astray in the desert and get them lost, or an Arcadian 'coyote-trickster' version, statistically no different than 'eastern' Kitsune, but with different legends and assumptions, could work.

They could even take human form and spread disinformation about their nature in areas they frequent, so that the locals 'know' about the skulking chupacabra, who steal livestock and small shiny objects, completely unaware that there are no such creatures, only the tricksters, who spread lies and blame their own actions on mythical beasts.

{examines foil hat for holes} Funny you should mention this, as I have something very similar (but very different) already written up for the next Wayfinder.

(I'd've already submitted it if I could just hammer out the mechanics on my other submission. :/ )

Silver Crusade

Samy wrote:
Orcs, Kobolds and Goblins of Golarion, honestly, rather baffle me. I don't know what the thought process behind them was. I suppose I can understand goblins as a key monster of the Pathfinder brand, but the other two...are there really more players who want to play kobolds than, say, drow?

I can vouch for kobolds being popular at my table. They have a reputation for guile over raw brutality, and being the eternal underdogs/mooks even moreso than goblins. Drow have comparatively less appeal as PCs in my circles.

As for Orcs of Golarion, it's possibly more GM-oriented "get into orc headspace" useful than player useful, despite being in the Companion line. Unless you're running a monstrous/evil game, of course.

Contributor

Alex Putnam wrote:
As for Orcs of Golarion, it's possibly more GM-oriented "get into orc headspace" useful than player useful, despite being in the Companion line. Unless you're running a monstrous/evil game, of course.

Which honestly happens a lot. Paths of Prestige and Inner Sea Magic are in the GM Focused campaign setting line while Magical Marketplace is in the Player Companion line.


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Just wanted to add how much everyone in my gaming group (who barely comment on the forums and are hardly part of any vocal minority) would love an official Kitsunes of Golarion book, or anything similar. (I'll check out some of the third-party material people have been mentioning too.) A Tian-Xia races book would also be welcome; personally, I'd love more about the samsarans. I know it may be quite a while before we get more Tian-Xia material, but it doesn't hurt to say: if you make it, there's people who'd like to buy it!


I think if Paizo would have chosen something other than "Kitsune" for the name of the race, it could possibly see wider use. Of course, it seems the majority of GMs (at least when it comes to these forums, which is what I am basing my assumptions on, which I know isn't the best) frown on anything that isn't CRB +aasimar/tiefling only. And the more Asian-flavored races get even less allowance. I have never seen vanara or vishkanya or wayang being playable races (unless it's for that single AP, Jade Regent).

As for me, I would love to see more support for this race, with more variants than what the low count of 2 variant traits available for this race. I wouldn't mind one of 2 books: Races of the Dragon Empires (including all the "asian" races), and/or something like Blood of Animals, giving information on kitsune, vanara, tengu, catfolk, ratfolk, and an actual playable gnoll race for once (possibly a "civilized" variant that isn't just the Bestiary gnoll sans racial hit dice).

Like Mikaze's crusade for good-aligned orcs (and non-rape origins for half-orcs), I have always wanted good-aligned gnolls that could be used as player races.


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Just a thought. Since Pathfinder Kitsune have a bit of a fey theme, they could probably also fit into a fey themed Player Companion. After all, their semi homeland seems to bet the Forest of the Spirits and Kitsune who aren't from that area generally know Sylvan. Plus, just look at the spells they get from the Magical Tail chain... definitely fey/trickery themed spells.

Though, I'm betting that this setup is probably unlikely (or would mean getting very little info on kitsune) since I be there are a lot of other fey related things that Paizo wants to talk about first. Still, I figured it was worth mentioning since a fey themed book is probably more likely to come out than a 'blood of beasts' or kitsune focused book.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That´s a quite good idea Matrix Dragon. Thanks for suggesting!


Alex Putnam wrote:


As for Orcs of Golarion, it's possibly more GM-oriented "get into orc headspace" useful than player useful, despite being in the Companion line. Unless you're running a monstrous/evil game, of course.

I would think it was also for players of half-orcs who want more insight into orc head space.


Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Set wrote:

A Katapeshi / Thuvian variant of Kitsune, associated with jackals and heat mirages and trickery, crying like a lost child to lead people astray in the desert and get them lost, or an Arcadian 'coyote-trickster' version, statistically no different than 'eastern' Kitsune, but with different legends and assumptions, could work.

They could even take human form and spread disinformation about their nature in areas they frequent, so that the locals 'know' about the skulking chupacabra, who steal livestock and small shiny objects, completely unaware that there are no such creatures, only the tricksters, who spread lies and blame their own actions on mythical beasts.

{examines foil hat for holes} Funny you should mention this, as I have something very similar (but very different) already written up for the next Wayfinder.

(I'd've already submitted it if I could just hammer out the mechanics on my other submission. :/ )

Fennec-folk? Yay!


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I love the kitsune race but I only play in Adventure path/long games. Thus, I get don't get to play new races as often as I'd like. Hasn't stopped me from pickling up every 3PP item about them I can get my hands on.

From a less fan-girl perspective, I do want more love for all the races since I generally hate playing "common" races. I think a book about Beast folk, in and out of inner sea, sounds awesome (fennec-folk OMG yes!). I also want more information on the Samsaran race and Tengu and I would snatch up a new Tien Xia race/place book in an instant.

As for the "get your Asian mythology out of my game", one of the the things I like about Pathfinder is that they're not going the safe route. All humans are not white, all npc's are not straight and all culture is not European. That diversity is why I love Pathfinder.

Offhand, the next campaign I'm running is the Mummy's Mask AP, and I'm going to love slipping into the culture while I add in a prominent Fennec-folk NPC for my players to find.


I have personally played a Kitsune for Two different adventures and I have to say that it is One of the most interesting races to play. The race gives you a lot of things that makes your character really pop. You have a human form a Anthro form, and at some point you can have a normal fox form.

My latest character Warder is a Kitsune Rogue who was adopted by humans at an early age. So he tends to use his human form all the time trying to fit in with the community trying not to be ridiculed and hated. However when he is asleep/ knocked out he returns to his Anthro form. This gave me a wide range of role playing options and a lot of situations where I could be found out at any time by my fellow adventurers. If your interested you can watch it here on youtube.

Granted I think that the Kitsune race is lacking in the luster department due to lack of popularity. And yes I would love to see a little more attention to the things that Kitsune can do and there culture in a game setting. However I also think that this makes the Kitsune have its own personal charm.

Its not constricted like some races are. The Core races are good examples of this. Dwarfs are typically thought of having been raised in mountain strongholds. the Elf race are thought of as growing up loving the wildlife. Even some rare races like the Drow who are feminists and always evil. (Not that I am saying that every character needs to fallow these assumptions that I grew up with. I would actually not encourage to follow these ideas. Its good to have a Drizzt in the party.)

The Kitsune don't have things like that holding them down. As I see it the Kitsune can be tweaked to look a certain way to refer to where they come from just as Kuzunoha Kaijitsu Suggested

Kuzunoha Kaijitsu wrote:
" I'm going to love slipping into the culture while I add in a prominent Fennec-folk NPC for my players to find."

So maybe the Kitsune would look like a Fennec fox instead of the usual Red fox. And if its from the arctic maybe the snow white arctic fox? The rules don't say that these features are set in stone so why not take take that into advantage?


Winterwolf93 wrote:
The Kitsune don't have things like that holding them down. As I see it the Kitsune can be tweaked to look a certain way to refer to where they come from just as Kuzunoha Kaijitsu Suggested
Kuzunoha Kaijitsu wrote:
" I'm going to love slipping into the culture while I add in a prominent Fennec-folk NPC for my players to find."
So maybe the Kitsune would look...

Its just such a wonderful idea, since foxes are one of the few animals that do live pretty much everywhere. Like coyotes, they are adaptable beasts. My favourite race. I wish I could play them more often, but my next two character ideas are set and we tend to play full adventure paths before starting over, so it'll be a while before I get to play one rather than npc it.


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Welp, competition is always pretty fierce to get in, but I just submitted the "fennec kitsune" for Wayfinder #11, along with a full brushtail fennec write-up (briefly mentioned in the Dark Markets: Katapesh book).

{fingers crossed} If they are approved, they'll be in the issue available at PaizoCon. If they aren't approved, I'll post them on the web and link to them here.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Highly appreciated Ambrosia Slaad! Thx!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Suggested product titles for Kitsune/Catfolk/et al. book: "Furries of Golarion" or "Muppets of Golarian" :)


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As long as all the books about humans get renamed to "Boring People of Golarion" ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I don´t think that Kitsune or Catfolk nor other races in Golarion are presented as "Furries". Also Miss Piggie and Kermit, are they supposed to have fur? That would be like you include orcs there as well. What would they answer you? Probably just give you a heavy smack on the head^^

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hayato Ken wrote:
I don´t think that Kitsune or Catfolk nor other races in Golarion are presented as "Furries". Also Miss Piggie and Kermit, are they supposed to have fur? That would be like you include orcs there as well. What would they answer you? Probably just give you a heavy smack on the head^^

Ha! I suppose Grippli would have to fall into the "Muppets of Golarion" supplement wouldn't they? Now what about the Gonzo section? Do we go with the old "whatever" definition and include odd races like Samsaran? Or do we go with the Muppets in Space revelation and have it be about the distant planets races?

When I posted that after reading the thread, the first thing that popped into my head was an old party my group ran that didn't include a single core race that I dubbed "The Muppet Show". I realized after I posted that my response could be taken as very condescending, thanks for taking it in the tongue-in-cheek manner I intended it :)

On a more serious note, I'd like more exploration of the Tian Xia races, their societies, and interactions in general. I wonder if the books on the subject so far have been popular enough to warrant/inspire more supplements (Like Kitsune of Golarion) or even a larger campaign guide like the Inner Sea World Guide? Has anyone seen any hint from the folks at Paizo in that direction?

It always seemed to me like the Eastern themed supplements in the old DnD editions were not remembered fondly, but that's just my own impression based entirely on circumstantial evidence/conversations with others. I feel like Paizo constructed a more interesting eastern setting based on what I've read so far and I'd like to see more.


I loved the Eastern supplements but I haven't heard anything on the sales yet. I really hope the do more. Tops on my list are a full discussion about each of the countries and how they act and whey believe on a societal level and a book like the inner sea gods one on all of the Tien deities.


Kuzunoha Kaijitsu wrote:
I loved the Eastern supplements but I haven't heard anything on the sales yet. I really hope the do more. Tops on my list are a full discussion about each of the countries and how they act and whey believe on a societal level and a book like the inner sea gods one on all of the Tien deities.

Sorry, that was supposed to say "...how they act and what they believe...", not "and whey they believe". This is why I need to stop hanging out here when I'm supposed to be asleep because I have work the next morning. *grin*


I got word Sunday night that two of my three Wayfinder #11 critters didn't make the cut. So, for you kitsune and fennec fox fans, you can get them both from here.


While it isn't Pathfinder or a kitsune specifically, Upper One Games is now previewing their new puzzle-adventure game, Never Alone (Kisima Inŋitchuŋa). The protagonists are a little Iñupiaq girl and her arctic fox companion. It looks beautifully evocative, and I'm really having a hard time not imagining that cute fox as a hidden/secret arctic kitsune.

So...

What do you think are essential racial qualities--mechanically and flavorful-wise--to an arctic kitsune?

Contributor

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

While it isn't Pathfinder or a kitsune specifically, Upper One Games is now previewing their new puzzle-adventure game, Never Alone (Kisima Inŋitchuŋa). The protagonists are a little Iñupiaq girl and her arctic fox companion. It looks beautifully evocative, and I'm really having a hard time not imagining that cute fox as a hidden/secret arctic kitsune.

So...

What do you think are essential racial qualities--mechanically and flavorful-wise--to an arctic kitsune?

First, all "terrain" races should be handled like jungle elves or arctic elves in Pathfinder: thematically-linked racial traits instead of separate races.

Second, I would do research! Here's what I found on Northern American legends on foxes:
The Fox Woman: This could work, but at the same time it also feels like something Skinwalker-y too. Not sure. This is, however, the most well-documented tale involving foxes among North American arctic cultures.

How Fox Saved the People: This one is a bit weird.

Its also interesting to note that in some Scandinavian Myths, foxes cause the Northern Lights. So with all of these stories in mind, I would probably do something like this:

Northern Illusions (Ex/Sp): Kitsune add +1 to the caster level and saving throw DC of any pattern spells that they cast. Kitsune with a Charisma score of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like abilities: color spray, dancing lights, silent image. This racial trait replaces kitsune magic.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Color spray 1/day as a racial spell......me thinks you want to think about that again. As awesome as kitsune are, that´s a bit heavy on the first few levels.


Personally, the first question that comes to mind for me when I hear 'artic kitsune' is: fire magic or ice magic?

Because seriously, one of the things that "japanese" kitsune are best known for is their control over elemental magics. Especially fire magic. An artic one might go the opposate route and use ice magic or go with the whole 'cold fire' trope.

Contributor

Matrix Dragon wrote:

Personally, the first question that comes to mind for me when I hear 'artic kitsune' is: fire magic or ice magic?

Because seriously, one of the things that "japanese" kitsune are best known for is their control over elemental magics. Especially fire magic. An artic one might go the opposate route and use ice magic or go with the whole 'cold fire' trope.

Except the point wasn't to make them "japanese" kitsune. He mentioned Inuit mythology. The interesting thing about foxes is that they are featured in the mythologies of every culture that has ever existed in proximity to their habitat. Celts feature foxes. Egyptians. Inuits. Japanese. Native Americans. You name it.

In some sense, kitsune are a lot like Tian Xia's halfling race; they live in the shadows of human culture. In order to apply that elsewhere, you need to start looking at the mythologies of the fox throughout global culture instead of taking Japanese culture and spreading it throughout Golarion.

Contributor

Hayato Ken wrote:
Color spray 1/day as a racial spell......me thinks you want to think about that again. As awesome as kitsune are, that´s a bit heavy on the first few levels.

Honestly, color spray has never been a problem in any of the games that I've run. At three per day it might have been, but once per day is fine. Plus, as you said, color spray doesn't age very well at all.

If you want to simulate the northern lights (and what Scandinavian folk thought it represented) there's no better spell than color spray. Plus the DC bonus is very specific to compensate; +1 to pattern effects is much less broad than +1 to enchantment effects.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah i take that back. Was thinking about my oracle of heavens at that time^^ And that would represent northern lights pretty well, since you get all the spells. And they stay viable.

Contributor

Hayato Ken wrote:
Yeah i take that back. Was thinking about my oracle of heavens at that time^^ And that would represent northern lights pretty well, since you get all the spells. And they stay viable.

A kitsune oracle of the heavens would definitely like having that spell-like ability! ;-)


So... would it make sense that arctic kitsune, desert kitsune, Tian/temperate forest kitsune, etc., would all have different "kitsune magic" racial qualities appropriate to the region/threats? Or is that too close to creating separate races of kitsune?


You could easily change their Kitsune Magic trait to reflect the different areas they could be from. You could have red fox Kitsune Magic (the official write-up for Tian/forest kitsune), arctic fox Kitsune Magic variant, fennec fox Kitsune Magic variant, and gray fox Kitsune Magic variant as just alternate race traits that replace the regular Kitsune Fox racial traits.

Contributor

Of course, the big thing you'd want to do is pick a few real-world mythologies to base your kitsune off of. Replacing agile with other racial traits could work well too, but in my opinion kitsune should always be like halflings: shadowing human races wherever you find them. That's why I wasn't a fan of your "we turn into halflings" racial offshoot that you posted here.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Of course, the big thing you'd want to do is pick a few real-world mythologies to base your kitsune off of. Replacing agile with other racial traits could work well too, but in my opinion kitsune should always be like halflings: shadowing human races wherever you find them. That's why I wasn't a fan of your "we turn into halflings" racial offshoot that you posted here.

Yeah, I kinda figured the lack of comments on it was a silent but strong "No" vote. FennecKitsune MK II has gone back to them having the same racial mechanics (including human alt forms) as base kitsune except for swapping out the Agile and Kitsune Magic qualities, tweaking the Languages choices, and dropping their bite to 1d3.

Flavorwise, I still think tying them into the sal'awa cryptid can work for Osirion, as can hinting at the lubin legends for those few who immigrated to Avistan & Varisia.

...But I could be wrong (yet) again. I can post the MK II version once I finish up the other (gnoll) sub-race in the article, if anyone is interested.

Contributor

Well, if you're going to develop a new race for an area that is already heavily covered by Paizo, you're going to need a reason why the race wouldn't have been covered in, say, Osirion, Land of Pharaohs.

A quick google search on fennec foxes in mythology states that the mythological idea of the "Set Animal" (aka the sal'wa) might have actually been a highly stylized version of a fennec fox. I don't remember my Osirion lore well, but I believe that worship of what we would call the Egpytian pantheon is banned in Osirion. If the fennec race still "follows the old ways," then that would be an excellent reason for them to have been in hiding.

As for the sal'wa cryptid, maybe this race has a special feat that builds off of Fox form that allows them to assume sal'wa form (as beast shape III / IV) at will. Maybe all sal'was are actually members of this race trying to move about undetected. In that sense, maybe the sal'wa is a literal Golarion cryptid, which would be ironically unique since Golarion's general approach is, "all crpytids are real."


Yeah, that's kind of where I was going with it this time around. Thankfully I've got a bit more wordcount to develop the flavor for it than a bestiary article would allow. I uploaded the current draft of it here. I still need to work on the racial traits and favored class options, and I'm wavering on the two new spells.


I'll just say that I would love to see a Kitsune player companion book; though I suspect that if one is coming it's a long way off. Heck, we don't even have a Hellknight book yet, and how often have they shown up in the setting?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Crypt stalker seems a bit strong to me.
Then again, when elves get a +4 bonus in the desert, why those ones only +2?

Next to shaman, they should totally get a special FCB for swashbuckler.

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