Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 6 Season Star Voter. Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 229 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.
This may have already been said and if so I apologize, but honestly I would rather Paizo revisit older "ignored" ancestries before delving into new ones or reintroducing PF1 ancestries that are missing. Maybe a Friend Folio of the ancestries that were added before the remaster that need to be cleaned up and fleshed out a bit more. Adding some new feats and maybe, if there's room and time, a bit extra to give them new life.
I can see your point and don't disagree with all of it. A few things I would like to see.
1. Remove the Secondary Caster requirement when using the Create Undead ritual. Yeah I know that not everyone uses rituals, but honestly having a necromancer being able to single-handedly use this ritual makes a lot of sense to me. Could be available at like 3rd level or later.
2. Have a part of the Dirge be that the caster can choose a spell whenever they gain access to a new spell rank that's not on the occult list that fits certain criteria (I'm imagining vitality or void based) to add to the dirge and count as being occult for the necromancer that knows them. I would limit them to a spell rank that the character is currently capable of casting. This lets each character fine tune their spells a bit to make sure they have access to spells they feel fit. That would only give 10 spells if gained at 1st level and I think that would be appropriate.
3. Add some feats that allow thralls to interact with undead, either positively or negatively. I think a fun concept would be a necromancer that uses their knowledge to battle undead and can use their thralls to drain the power from hostile undead.
Other than that I'm overall happy with how it's built even though it's not 100% what I was expecting.
So .... that mean the Godsrain could have caused the Stock Market Crash and the Great Depression.
You're going to credit him with the Great Depression, but not the creation of Tintin, the St Valentine's Day Massacre, the creation of Grand Teton National Park, the first appearance of gloves on Mickey Mouse,the Battle of Bloody Alley, or the final decision to make all London buses red?
Cummon. I know Gorum isn't the most exciting deity in the toybox, but give him some range at least.
The other relevant detail is that Golarion is a world of magic and alchemy. Not only do devils tempt mortals with cursed goose statues that eat hearts and provide golden eggs, but I'd guess there are dozens of Alchemists out there turning lead into gold w/ Philosopher's Stones.
Also mining is different in fantasy worlds. It's much easier for various ancestries to mine much deeper than real world humans could along with creating even larger mines/dungeons/underground metropolises.
That ability opens up more access to precious metals than what we, bound by our current understanding of engineering and physics, have access to on Earth.
Roll for combat has a lot of videos on the economy of gaming. This is one.
Books are going to keep increasing in price. I decided that physical space was why I was switching to PDFs, but probably cost would play into it somewhat now. The technology for displaying PDFs has gotten to the point that I can even read books on my phone, but still prefer to read on my PC.
Yes, I have sent customer service three emails. They usually respond faster than this.
Paizo might not have any other control but UPS bounced it back to them saying to check with them since the tracking number doesn't have any information.
I know, I'm being rudely impatient.
Thanks!
You're not rudely impatient.
I've never had the tracking numbers listed on the website for shipping work.
Someone one said you can add Paizo before the tracking number, but that hasn't worked for me either. Unfortunately the only other option I can suggest is to submit a ticket through the Support Link as opposed to a direct email. I've gotten quicker responses that way in the past.
First of all - where was the change to Minotaurs’ reach announced/detailed?
Secondly - how the hell are people posting those combat diagrams!?! I tried to “Reply” to the posts to see the formatting, but nothing showed up except just the symbols?!?
For the first question - It was posted in the FAQ .
For the second, I have no idea, but I want to know as well.
Darkvisuon generally only matters if you (or your entire party) are trying to be sneaky.
I heartily disagree with this. I mean sneakiness is a big factor, but even with normal exploring you want to limit attention to yourself as much as possible, even if you're not being stealthy, and having a light source while in darkness is a glowing beacon for others. Makes it much easier for them to notice you from a distance and either prepare an ambush or avoid you.
I play both games but I enjoy 1E more. 2E definitely has better, cleaner, more streamlined rules, no doubt. But for me it's not alot of fun, mostly because the classes are very one-dimensional and really "samey". Martial classes have a template they mostly follow, and Casters have a template they mostly follow. I just don't see much difference between classes.
Customization wise, there's not much I feel I can do with a 2E character either. Once Ancestry, Background and Class have been selected, the character is basically on rails. Class feats are mostly underwhelming, Skill Feats are easily the worst thing about the system, and archetypes in general are very weak and in many cases make your character worse, not better.
It's really too bad, because the 2E rules set is vastly superior, but the actual fun of the game took a big step back imo.
While I agree 2E has some flaws (ahem...General feats are boring for one). I disagree with all of your post.
I've played with and without archetypes (both free and not) and have never found them to be a serious drawback for characters, especially if taken with some forethought.
Also I've seen the same classes built differently in the same game to the point I rarely worry about overlap just because of class.
Which werecreature does a claw attack? Or are they all jaw attacks like the beastkin heritage? Also I heard there's comboing with beastkin, what does that look like?
Missed the question on comboing with beastkin.
If you're a Beastkin that takes a werecreature archetype you can use the unarmed attacks from the Beastkin Hybrid form while in Werecreature Hybrid form.
Which werecreature does a claw attack? Or are they all jaw attacks like the beastkin heritage? Also I heard there's comboing with beastkin, what does that look like?
Awakened animal Wolf, with the beast kin (wolf) verstile heritage, and werewolf archetype, and either a ranger with a Wolf companion or a Summoner with a beast (wolf flavored) eidolon or a Animal instinct barbarian?
Is it too silly? Is there something you would add to silly it up more?
Not silly at all, but one of my players wants to play a Ranger with a flying squirrel animal companion (new option) and the Werecreature (weremoose) archetype for full Moose and Squirrel shenanigans and I support this idea so take my approval with a grain of moon salt.
I can understand your frustration. I've been playing long enough to have experienced every edition change from both D&D and PF and I would be lying if I didn't say I wasn't wistful for some of the older editions on occasion.
I still play PF1E while also playing 2E and I prefer 2E, but that's a personal choice and I won't try and convince you my view is better.
That said I do want to address a few things:
1- will second edition ever be more like first edition?
2- will there be more pathfinder first edition
3- will a hypothetical 3rd edition if it comes out be more like first edition?
It's very unlikely that 3rd edition will retrograde back to a 1e style. In gaming that's rare to see. Even when D&D went from 4E to 5E there was some retro designs involved, but 5E is more a new system entirely. Paizo has said they're distancing themselves from the original model because of WOTC's actions and as such that makes anything new from Paizo highly unlikely.
4- will there be anything at all similar to first edition?
This is unanswerable. It's very possible that a 3rd party designer may create something close enough to 1E to scratch your itch, but we don't know for certain.
5- is there any game that is still supported that is like first edition
Maybe. I'm not familiar, but I don't have my fingers on every game out there.
That all said you can still play 1E and you will be able to find players that want to. As time passes it may be harder, but there are still people that play Rules Cyclopedia era D&D and love it. For new content you will likely be forced to rely on 3rd party content only, but there is some really good quality content out there and the sheer volume of published materials already available should keep you full for the rest of your gaming life.
In any rate good games and fair rolls to you and your table.
As much as I've been a supporter of paizo, there is something innately broken about the maths and game design PF2E has and I feel like the game itself is beating a dead horse at this point.
For example - I love the idea of having 1 level for the character. This makes things easier to understand. (Instead of how PF1E was, where I was like 2 barbarian, 3 fighter, 1 magus etc) I also love the idea that the maths are significantly simplified.
However, with this stated, there are some obvious issues with the game design.
1) The Issue: Dedications are all but worthless in most cases. If I have wizard dedication, the way the maths work, the spells will be resisted frequently. It makes it so I can't be a fighter with wizard dedication and then be able to cast any offensive spells. They all have to be regulated to support spells. If I try to utilize it for any offensive spells, the turn will almost certainly be wasted, which reduces character tempo.
The fix: Make it so a dedication doesn't feel like a waste of feats. Make it so it feels like the two classes are merged instead of having the dedication feel like it's 1/3rd the power of the main class. Allow for synergy between the main class and the dedication to occur.
2) The Issue: The maths involved in the proficiencies is broken. If I want to wield a Falcata, in 99% of the cases, I can't wield one at high level. The math is very tight in PF2E where even 1 status bonus to attack is noticeable as seen with bard songs being powerful. As it stands, if I wield a Falcata as say a thaum, id be taking a whopping -6 to attack as it wont advance past trained. If I use a feat for heavy armor, if my class doesn't progress to mastery, that's a whopping -4 to AC at high level with that as well. The general feats that allow for proficiency simply don't work when playing a high level campaign, making them useless feats. If there were better feat support later on such as allowing me to take additional feats to increase said proficiency, that would be a different story....
1) Dedications - This has been pointed out by others as being as intended. The designers don't want a Fighter w/ MC: wizard to be as good as a wizard or even as good as a Magus, especially out of the box. The Dedication feats reward you as you get higher levels.
2) Proficiencies - Your example of the Falcata on a Thaumaturge is wrong. If you take the Weapon Proficiency feat to become proficient in an Advanced weapon and become 11th level you become an expert with that weapon so you're not restricted to only trained in your example. Yes you're going to lag behind someone who is Legendary or Master, and yes the math is tight enough that this is noticeable, but being limited to expert is far from useless.
3) Niches and classes - I think you're hyper-focusing on the baseline of classes. I've found the classes to be versatile enough cover many niches. A fighter in one of my games is the primary healer for example.
4) Backgrounds - Every Background offers a free boost that can be used on the primary attribute. That's literally all you need to "maximize" your character. If you want to focus on Skills/feats/other benefits as being a requirement to a build that's on you.
5) Stats are useless - Ok what do you suggest to replace them?
6) Dumping Cha - According to you, "In order to promote RP sentimentality, you put points into charisma. This allows you to deceive, intimidate, or have diplomacy. If you can't do any of that because charisma is your dump stat, the game no longer is an RP game." Based on this I debate on if you know what role-playing actually means. Just because a character is "bad" at social skills does not mean you can't role-play them. Weak stats skills actually make better role-playing opportunities. Having a character who's bad at diplomacy trying to sweet talk a guard, or one who's trained at a knowledge skill, but isn't good at it due to a low intelligence, or countless other examples create amazing role-playing opportunities. It's fun explaining what your character is doing and what happens. Playing super soldiers with no weaknesses isn't the same as playing a character who has both strengths and weaknesses.
7) Choices - This is highly subjective. A choice is going to vary on usefulness based upon, but not limited to, the player, the character, the adventure, the GM, and the other characters (in no particular order). Just because a choice doesn't fit your normal preferred style doesn't make it less meaningful. Just less meaningful for you.
We finally get dragons AND they're implemented in a way that makes 5e's Dragonborn look pathetic.
I'm super excited about it too, but isn't it a bit too early to say they're implementing it in a way that makes the 5e's Dragonborn look pathetic? Granted it's a low bar, but we barely know anything about their feat makeup. I have faith Paizo won't fumble the whole heritage, but still.
I'm not sure that I agree all of these are lost. Some of what you're listing (Bunyips for example) predate D&D and should be eligible for updates in the future. It's possible that they were just omitted due to space.
In a similar veins, Paizo is using Golems so they have a chance of returning, maybe under an adjusted name.
The sidebar on Kobolds and how their eggs pull power from nearby powerful beings, not just dragons, opens up some interesting possibilities for the Ancestry and Heritages in PC2
So they're no longer JUST smol dragon friends who are doing their best! Now they can be smol angel friends or kami friends or elemental friends who are doing their best! :D
Eggzactly!
Some may even be smol Sphere of Annihilation friends doing their best!
Asking because it is coming up in my next session (an adaptation of the Carrion Crown AP). Is there a replacement of some kind for the Flesh Golem? If yes, does it have a cool new differences or is it just the new way of doing the resistances (in the way of the Brass Bastion) and the rest of its abilities have stayed as is?
I think all of the bestiary 1 golems are in here using their old art but new names and the new resistance mechanics. I didn't look that hard at the flesh golem but if looked pretty identical, including the berserk ability.
Yeah, all of the golems are there under new names:
Charnel Creation = Flesh Golem
Clay Effigy = Clay Golem
Iron Warden = Iron Golem
Stone Bulwark = Stone Golem
The sidebar on Kobolds and how their eggs pull power from nearby powerful beings, not just dragons, opens up some interesting possibilities for the Ancestry and Heritages in PC2
I have a friend playing a Lamashtu cleric who interprets these "make the beautiful monstrous, reveal the corruption and flaws in all things" as having a similar bent along an anarchist viewpoint.
They look at corrupt officials/celebrities/heroes that the public doesn't know realize their corruption as being "beautiful" in a societal viewpoint. These figures are accepted and loved by the majority and this cleric takes it upon himself to reveal their monstrous nature.
The player really pushes this aspect so that it's almost zealous and kind of obfuscates the less savory parts of his worship.
Makes an interesting twist on an outlaw campaign, especially since the player still will mar those that are physically "beautiful" in order to make them monstrous as well and tries (usually successfully) to sell it as the victim being corrupt.
Makes perfect thematic sense, but I am not sure if it fits with Paizo's balance decisions. I think they wanted to keep bombs as a martial option to access different damage types, hence making them martial weapons. Monks and casters would really love them as options but they aren't available.
I certainly see your point as it could be unwieldy in the hands of monks, but for casters would it be all that different than taking the Weapon Proficiency general feat?
So with the changes to how ancestry based weapon familiarity feats (which I love) and the upcoming player core 2 which will have Hobgobs in it I'm hoping that they change the Hobgob's familiarity feat to include Alchemical Bombs.
Given the fact they can easily get Alchemical formula through Alchemical Scholar (Assuming there's no change to that feat) I think it would be thematic for them to also treat bombs as ancestral weapons.
Every TTRPG I've ever played that had some sort of "BEWARE DANGEROUS AREA" be it the underdark, the darklands, some unidentified wastelands, Ohio, or whatever has had some sort of semi-safe settlement. I'm not going to argue realism because it's a game, but the inclusion of said place has made adventuring in these areas more fun because, while there is the constant threat of the environment and its denizens present, these settlements do give a slice of safety to the players and makes it more fun for them.
That said also amping up the constant threat to said settlement is a good plot point as well even if it's not the main plot point.
Pretty confident new players will not use, its not in their copy of the rulebooks after all.
In my experience over decades of many different games the exact opposite of this is true. The majority of new players I've played with have been the most vocal with asking "what else they can do" beyond the book they have.
Heck in the last year I've introduced 3 people to PF1E and PF2E, gave them the CRB and a brief outline and all three went online to find other options they thought would be "cool" to varying degrees of success (one had a bad habit of focusing on weird 3rd party stuff that was either under or overpowered).
I get that with some people they may be shy about doing so, but I think you're over-estimating how much impact this will be.
One of my characters in my game is a Mage and the player takes extensive notes on all monsters, lores, and spells because that's what his class would do, which is great. Another is a player that takes extensive notes and has done so since he picked up his first dice. That's also great cause he's kind of like my fallback anchor if I can't read my own notes (no judging).
I still make them roll a new RK on all monsters, even ones they've met. However if it's one they've been successful against with RK in the past I have a lower DC for them to meet as a "reminder" DC. If they meet that (which generally only requires the D20 to get a 5 or better before modifiers) then I remind them they've faced X before and they know it does Y and Z. If they roll high enough they uncover any additional info they may have missed in the past, if any.
I do this because it's possible for a person to have a mind blank (the non-TM kind) on something well studied. Heckfire, I've worked with Excel for over 20 years in a professional capacity and 2 weeks ago I forgot that cells were called cells while in a meeting. Adding in other information to retain and learn can make that recall of things you just "know" even more challenging sometime.
So far there has been no instance where every player in the group has failed a reminder DC on a RK, but if that does happen that would be hilarious.
There have been a couple of instances of a single player failing one with others passing and the roleplaying for that has been hilarious.
I can see where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree.
In my view this playtest also offers a tangential remaster playtest as well.
I know at my table We're preparing to run an Animist and Exemplar side by side with a Rogue and Wizard and we're all interested in seeing how the classes stack up. Not so much on a one on one basis, but on a "fully built and tuned chassis" vs "new shiny prototype" and I fully expect Paizo to pour through data for interactions between existing rules/classes ad remastered rules/classes to help fine tune the remaster.
Yeah it'll be a bit clumsy since there's some terms/rules/features that are new/renamed, but overall I expect it'll be fun and useful.
Pre-build 4 creatures and pull out their sheet when you cast the spell.
It seems about as complicated as building an Animal Companion or Eidolon in PF2.
This.
I mean honestly anyone who does summoning should pre-stat out their summons. Played a Summoner and someone whom summons on different occasions it's always faster to have a list of what you're summoning ahead of time. Especially if you're using a lego method like Starfinder. In my experience building the summons using the starfinder method is a bit longer in the beginning, but easier and just as quick as you gain experience doing so.
I've been going through the spells to give my players a good list/evaluation and here are a few faves so far (i'm only through Air and Earth so far)
* Deep Breath - Having a low level protection vs Drowning/Suffocation is nice and thematic.
* Pressure Zone - A bit high level but a fun debuff.
* Shock to the System - Narrow application and high level, but I like it. A way to revive an ally AND boost them.
* Glass Shield - Same reasons YuriP explained.
* Rubble Step - This was used by a druid on a Monk and was a huge change to the enemy tactics.
Still reviewing, but have high hopes for other standouts
I echo what Doug Hahn says. It will take practice and color-coded is the way to go.
What I did is create a "cheat sheet" that's on a full size sheet. The sheet has an image of the dice along the left margin and to the right of each die is a breakdown of what attack I use for each one and made sure I used dice that are as different in color and design as possible to avoid confusion (with my blue metal d20 being my primary one).
After rolling I make sure to place each die on the image corresponding to it to help train my mind to recognize each one by default.
This is too useful for me to not have set up. Also, how do you guys add character pictures to your profile? I haven't seen an option to do that either.
When logged in go to my account on top right then account settings.
On the left you should see a messageboard settings which will let you change your avatar
That is how all TTRPGs have been for me. Each character is on their own until the end of an encounter. The only exception is people will use an action to prevent someone from dying, but some people feel that that is kind of a wasted action better spent finishing the encounter. Then deal with the downed characters.
With all due respect this sounds more like the mindset of the people you play with rather than the games themselves. I've played all the games you have (and a few more) and very rarely do I encounter a rampant mindset that resembles what you're talking about. And I'm not disparaging that mindset. Some people may find that more fun. It's just not as common in my experience.
That said PF2E is HIGHLY teamwork friendly and a lot of assumptions ingrained in other games don't quite translate to it and vice versa.
But to go back to your original point I will suggest the following that has helped my table transition:
1. Remember that sometimes using non-attack actions/skills are better than taking an attack.
2. Aiding an ally will often make your job easier.
3. There is sometimes a lot of overlap of abilities, but that's fine. Characters don't have to be uber-specialized.
4. Communication with your allies is important.
Agreed. 4E was too much like a video game, but there were certain things that I really liked in 4E. The Bloodied condition comes to mind first, second wind and partially healing surges aren't awful.
This.
Also if it's all optional rules I don't see as it really being a detriment. Don't like them. Don't use them.
I would love a Blood of Dragons book, but I'll echo many posters reservations on the danger of too much racebloat. I would prefer 1 specific race that may have a variable stat adjustment (similar to the humans +2 in any one thing) with some set race abilities that make them decent excel at one thing at a time. So a draconic race that wants to go the martial route will be good at it, but if it also picks up arcane abilities they'll be less able. This would prevent them from honing in on the human's "we're good at everything" while still allow them to excel at the aspects of dragons mentioned above (warrior, mage, rogue, or priest). Not 100% sure how you would pull it off though.
Also I would like to see additional support for kobolds and nagaji in it as well, but would be the most interested if it gave more background info on dragons in general along with nations that are directly involved/influenced by dragons.
Character Name: Neje StormCloud
Class/Level: Witch (hedge witch) 8
Adventure: The Hook Mountain Massacre
Catalyst: A confused raging Jaagreth
Story:
Alright, this was a big one and almost a full party wipe so I’m going to break it up some to give you the full effect of it. First of all let me give the group and a house rule I use.
The party:
Lem (Halfling Monk, 8, uses UMD and wands to buff himself and heal)
Tozreh (Tiefling (catfolk) Ranger (trapper, natural weapon style), 8, and his small cat companion)
Lodan (Human Conjurer (teleportation spec), 8, and his Imp familiar (who uses UMD and healing wands)
And
Neje
House rule: I abhor the instant death by an enemy who hits multiple times for ungawdly damage so I implemented a luck rule for instant death scenarios. The PC rolls (d20+ character level) vs a DC (10 + monster CR for the monster who did the death blow) and if they succeed the PC is at negative HP equal to their Con -2 (so they have a couple of rounds till they bleed out). This still adds quite a bit of danger AND urgency to the fights, but leaves the PCS feeling less helpless.
Also I changed some of the monster’s feats and spells to fit the story better.
OK, the party had done a great job of setting up a diversion before assaulting Fort Rannick (they had searched out an orc tribe in the area and convinced them to help take the fort and had given a summon nature’s ally to the rangers) and were doing a split assault. The party would sneak through the tunnels and smoke out the shocker lizards while the rangers and the orcs assaulted the main gates (WAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Sorry had to).
Well because of the diversion I ruled that the only ones left in the main keep were Lucrecia, Jaagreth, and two other ogres as guards. I figured Lucrecia would boost Jaagreth some and ruled that the party would have about a 25% of encountering them together. Well I rolled and look at what that, the party was going to encounter them together. The party made quick work of the ogre guards then headed upstairs almost right away (assuming the leaders would be there) so I made a perception check for the BBEGs. Lucrecia got a 20 so she knew what was coming and decided to do some buffs and prep work (in spoiler below).
Prep:
Lucretia used her illusions on the chapel to make it seem smaller to help funnel the PCs into the middle, then cast invisibility on her and Jaagreth, haste, then mage armor and divine favor.
The party moves cautiously up the stairs then check some of the side rooms. Finally they open the door to the chapel and see Lucrecia (illusion) standing there amid a pile of slain rangers reading a parchment at which point the Imp notices magic, but hasn’t had a chance to examine anything to get an idea of what it is and Lem declares a charge (everyone rolls initiative as a result). I’ll break down the rounds below.
round 1:
Lucrecia wins init and casts a silent mirror image. Lem charges the illusion and hits it, which dispels the illusion. Tozreh’s cat hold’s action for a command (but I give it a perception to smell others in the room), Tozreh tells his cat to search for the caster (since he now knows it’s an illusion) who then moves in and finds Lucrecia, and then moves into the room and readies an action to attack any enemies that move into reach. Neje casts burning gaze on her familiar and stays outside the room. Jaagreth uses Charge Through to do an overrun on Lem and charge Tozreh ( I ruled that since he was invisible Lem couldn’t side step and Jaagreth had held his action till a second character entered the room) and succeeded (knocking Lem down and doing 32 points to Tozreh). Lodan orders his familiar into the room while invisible to provide support, then casts summon monster 3 (and gets 2 crocodiles which he places on either side of Jaagreth).
round 2:
Lucrecia drops her illusions and casts Sanctuary defensively. Lem uses an ability to instant stand and charges Jaagreth and wiffs (nat 1). Tozreh’s cat makes its will save and attacks Lucrecia, but misses. Jaagreth full attacks Tozreh and gets 1 hit, 1 miss, and a critical hit (totaling out for 128 points of damage) which should instant kill Tozreh (he makes the luck role and instead has -10 HP). Tozreh lies bloody on the floor (no save the first round). Neje uses Evil Eye (vs saves) on Jaagreth and her familiar uses burning gaze on him for no damage (Jaagreth made his save). Lodan’s imp attempts to heal Tozreh, but rolls a total of 9 on UMD, the crocodiles attack (one hits, but is unable to grab Jaagreth for 18 points of damage) and Lodan casts Acid Arrow on Jaagreth and misses (nat 1 to hit).
round 3:
Lucrecia takes a 5 foot move and casts mirror image (2 images). Lem attacks Jaagreth and hits once (out of 5 attacks) for 12 points of damage. Tozreh’s cat moves and attacks Jaagreth to protect it’s master and misses. Neje attempts to use misfortune on Jaagreth, but he rolls a nat 20 to save, so she cackles and her familiar attempts to burning gaze Lucrecia (but can’t beat her SR). Jaagreth attacks Lem and each croc (hits one croc for 26 points of damage, leaving it with 2 left, misses the other, and hits Lem for 31 points). Tozreh lies bloody on the floor (fails to save). The Imp fails to use the wand again (almost a nat 1 too) and Lodan casts Excruciating Deformation on Lucrecia, he makes his will save but fails to get through her SR (a nat 1 on that roll)
round 4:
Lucrecia takes a 5 foot move and hits Lem with her Wisdom draining attack (dropping her sanctuary) and drains 2 wisdom. Lem attacks Lucrecia, but fails to hit even the images. Tozreh’s cat attacks Jaagreth again and does 14 points of damage. Tozreh makes his stabilization roll. Neje casts Bungle on Lucrecia but can’t get past the SR either (remember her SR is only a 19) Jaagreth attacks Lem, the damaged Croc, and Tozreh’s cat (hits the croc for 34 points of damage, killing it, hits the cat for 38 points, knocking it down to -1, and hits Lem for 38 points). The Imp finally uses the wand and revives Tozreh (with a total of 18 HP) and Lodan casts another Acid Arrow at Lucrecia (this gets through SR, and hits, but only hits an image).
round 5:
Lucrecia five foot moves and casts Confusion based in the hall which hits everyone, but her, Lem and the last croc (Jaagreth and Tozreh fail their save). Lem attempts to heal himself with a wand, but failes the UMD. Tozreh’s cat makes it’s stabilize check. Neje casts lightning bolt on Jaagreth (which also hits Lem, but it’s ok he has evasion!! Wait he rolled a 2 to save.. damn), but Jaagreth saves and only takes 12 damage (Lem takes 25 damage though and is now down to -7 HP). Jaagreth (as a result of being confused) 5 foot free and full attacks Neje (hitting all 3 times for a total of 97 points of damage which should instant kill her.. quick roll a luck check.. ohhh.. she rolled a 2. Correction it did instant kill her). Tozreh rolls to act normally, gets up (no AoO due to Confusion) and attacks Jaagreth (for 34 points of damage) The Imp goes over to check on Neje and then flies to Lem. Lodan attempts to dispel confusion, but fails.
round 6:
Lucrecia casts invisibility. Lem’s blood creates a natural grease spell (fails his stabilize check). Tozreh’s cat lays there sleeping while everyone else works. Neje joins the cat in a nice underserved nap (I’ll leave them both out of future breakdowns due to them not being in combat). Jaagreth attempts to attack Tozreh, but actually misses all three times (see I roll bad too). Tozreh rolls to act normally again and opens up on Jaagreth and hits all three times (for 65 points of damage which fells the mighty ogre). The Imp attempts to heal Lem and succeeds (leaving him with 19 hit points) then waits by Lem in case he needs to do it again. Lodan attempts to dispel confusion again, but fails again.
round 7:
Lucrecia casts dimension door into the hallway (right next to Lodan). Lem attempts to heal himself with a wand and succeeds (giving him 30 HP). . Tozreh rolls to attack the nearest person, which is Lem..he charges the Halfling and hits for 27 HP) The Imp tries to heal Lem, but fails his UMD. Lodan casts mage armor on himself.
round 8:
Lucrecia uses her wisdom draining touch on Lodan and drains him of 4 Wis. Lem tumbles out of Tozreh’s threatened area and moves into the hall and shuts the door Tozreh babbles incoherently. The Imp hides in the rafters in case Tozreh sees him. Lodan casts burning hands (defensively) on Lucrecia, but fails to get past her SR.
round 9:
Lucrecia attacks Lodan with her dagger (doing 18 Points of damage and 1 wisdom drain) Lem attempts to heal himself with a wand and succeeds (giving him 39 HP). . Tozreh rolls to attack himself (and does 7 HP of damage, leaving him with 11) The Imp continues to cower in fear. Lodan 5 foot steps back and then casts invisibility on himself, then teleports back into the room.
At this point I rule that Lucrecia heals herself and rebuffs (New mage armoe and mirror image (3 images) herself while waiting to see what happens. Tozreh gets a few more rounds of babble and act coherently. Lem heals himself up to 54 hp. And Lodan attempts to find Lucrecia by using his conjurer’s teleport ability and the Imp’s innate detect magic. Let’s fast forward to the end of confusion.
round 10:
Lucrecia is right next to Lem and invisible, she attacks him and does 30 points of damage and 1 Wisdom drain. Lem tumbles through her square to make sure his allies can attack her and then hits Lucrecia (but only dispels one of her images). Tozreh has one more round on confusion and rolls to attack the nearest creature (which is someone in the hall), I rule he bursts through the door, but he hasn’t enough movement to get to anyone. The Imp flies to Lem, but is too far away to do anything but arrive there. Lodan moves so he can see the combat and casts Excruciating Deformation again (but fails to bypass her SR).
round 11:
Lucrecia attacks Lem again for 12 points of damage and 1 wisdom drain (Lem’s down again!!). Lem makes his stabilization check. Tozreh finally free of the charges Lucrecia and drops one of her images. The Imp tries to heal Lem, but fails his UMD. Lodan uses a wand of scorching ray on Lucrecia (and succeeds, taking down her last image).
round 12:
Lucrecia casts confusion again (defensively, and gets Tozreh, The Imp, and Lodan in it. Tozreh is the only one who saves). Lem imitates a sack of potatoes . Tozreh attacks Lucrecia and hits twice for 48 damage. The Imp babbles uncontrollably. Lodan rolls to attack the nearest creature which is Tozreh. He casts burning hands (which also gets Lucrecia) and both of them fail their save (and he actually gets past SR) and take 16 points of fire damage.
round 13:
Lucrecia attempts to cast Cure Mod Wounds on herself, but fails to cast it defensively. Lem is one with the ground. Tozreh's player asks me if he can opt to take damage to himself in order to make a full round attack on Lucrecia, due to the fact the party is in dire straits (I want my MTV.. sorry….) I allow it and he hits all three times and kills Lucrecia (but takes 5 points of damage and falls down dying). At this point I rule that the confusion drops on Lodan and the Imp and the combat ends.
The party was able to reincarnate Neje (now she’s a dwarf!!), but I have to admit it was one of the most intense combats I've run. Also I may have fubared some of the HP's above, but it gives you the gist of it.
Well first thing I noticed. The Tetori don't get the bonus feats of a monk AND the bonus feats of the Tetori. The bonus feats for a Tetori are set and replace the monk's bonus feats.
You would have the following progression as a human Tretori/Brawler combo (1-3 Tretori, 4-6 Brawler);
I wouldn't bother with TWF personally since the majority of time you'll be doing your best to grapple your targets, but it could be handy just in case.
After 18 + years of playing with the same group of people (more or less) I know exactly what you mean. I usually DM, but when I move from behind the screen I sometimes deal with the same stuff you're describing.
I actually took a break from them for a bit and joined some new pick-up games at the local game store (kind of like Ciaran suggested). Yeah those didn't last long. Didn't take much to make me miss my table of squabbles :P
So let me see if I understand this. He wants to use fortune, then cackle all the time to keep it up?
Normally I'm an advocate of talking to the player first, but it sounds like you've done that.
Fine let him. That means that he's going to be severely limited. Here are some examples of what could happen to him (and would if it was my campaign)
penalties:
1.) For overland movement he can only move half his move (he's spending the other half laughing)
2.) Witches can be viewed with suspicion and distrust. He's now let everyone in earshot know he's a witch. Imagine how much fun he'll have if he goes into a settlement that's hostile to witches.
3.) Every monster in earshot is going to know where he (and by extension the party) is due to him LHAO.
4.) I would seriously make him start making fortitude checks to avoid going horse. The rules don't specifically say vocal components are needed for cackle (in fact they're not since it's a supernatural at he's going ability), but I would houserule that right in.
5.) In combat he's going to be limited in what he can do (already spending his move action). A few monsters charging him and he may have to stop cackling.
I'm sure there are a few other options you can do as well. If that doesn't work you could always ask him not to play.
Yes it's a good idea and interesting (even if flawed), but it's really just RPG masturbation. It's all theorycraft and would tend to fall apart in play for a couple of reasons.
1.) Dice rolls. - They always get in the way of epic encounters.
2.) The unpredictability of opponents. - It's all well and good to say that X does this on round 1, that on round 2, etc.., but in a real fight the combatants would change up their tactics based on the situations and has been pointed out multiple times, the Pit Fiend's wish was wasted and seriously stupid. There are so many better options (anti-magic field, lava, summoning more pit fiends, the list is literally endless).
This build is just a gilded sword. It looks awesome, but you don't know how functional it is till you use it. Sit down with one person playing the monk and another playing the mobs AND then beat them all in the same overpowering way it indicates and then I'll admit it's the uberbuild.
