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Hello, everyone!
So, some recent conversations elsewhere about the challenges in playing Kuthite cleric PCs got me thinking about what a fun prompt it can be. Putting aside whether Zon-Kuthon is an easy god for a PC to worship, you can definitely create a cleric who follows him who can still function in a typical party!
I think that's a neat idea to explore for all the evil or "iffy" gods! I thought we could take a stab at it.
For everyone's reference, here are the edicts/anathemas for some of the sketchier gods of Golarion. Remember: The goal is a PC who can play nice with others.
Edicts: bring power to outcasts and the downtrodden, indoctrinate children in Lamashtu’s teachings, make the beautiful monstrous, reveal the corruption and flaws in all things
Anathema: attempt to treat a mental illness or deformity, provide succor to Lamashtu’s enemies
Edicts: keep your true identity secret, sacrifice anyone necessary, take every advantage in a fight, work from the shadows
Anathema: allow your true identity to be connected to your dark dealings, share a secret freely, show mercy
Edicts: become undead upon death, create or protect the undead, sate your appetites
Anathema: deny your appetites, destroy undead, sacrifice your life
Edicts: negotiate contracts to your best advantage, rule tyrannically and torture weaker beings, show subservience to your betters
Anathema break a contract, free a slave, insult Asmodeus by showing mercy to your enemies
Edicts: bring pain to the world, mutilate your body
Anathema: create permanent or long-lasting sources of light, provide comfort to those who suffer
Edicts: Comfort and encourage lovers, help the suffering escape their circumstances in life or in death
Anathema: Dismiss or mock a creature’s grief, separate lovers, torture a creature
Edicts: preach of the upcoming end times, destroy that which has outlived its usefulness, put the suffering out of their misery
Anathema: artificially extend something’s existence or lifespan, spread hope
Edicts: destroy all things, free Rovagug from his prison
Anathema: create something new, let material ties restrain you, torture a victim or otherwise delay its destruction
Edicts: Convey yourself with regal dignity, claim what you desire and deserve, seek vengeance from those who wrong you
Anathema: Provoke Baalzebul’s envy, show humility
Edicts: Veil your motives, make dangerous deals, offer incomplete and ruinous knowledge
Anathema: Hide any plot against your masters, close or interfere with portals to Hell
Edicts: Indulge your basest desires, create deadly weapons
Anathema: Impede an act of high hedonism, become too attached to a lover or project
Edicts: Hoard knowledge, test the boundaries of taboo, spread falsehoods to dupe the foolhardy
Anathema: Declare knowledge heresy or forbidden, break your word
Edicts: Swim underwater, improve your own strength, encourage the spread of dangerous sea monsters
Anathema: Break a sworn oath, settle in a land-locked area, share Dagon’s secrets with outsiders
Edicts: Become undead through choice and skill, master necromantic magic, create undead
Anathema: Become a vampire or accidental undead, give succor to faiths that seek to destroy undead
Edicts: Tempt others to immoral acts, revel in flight, possess or magically influence others to cause calamities
Anathema: Deny a flying creature the ability to fly, abuse Pazuzu’s name or call on Pazuzu for help, aid worshippers of Lamashtu
Edicts: Drink blood, seek vampirism, cause bleed damage
Anathema: Expose vampires, heal a bloody wound without drinking blood from it first
Edicts: End all mortal life, exploit those who fear death
Anathema: Offer anything for free, extend mortal lifespans, grant true salvation to the doomed or dying
Edicts: create undead (particularly incorporeal undead), feast upon carnivores that have recently feasted upon others
Anathema: None
Edicts: Manipulate others with false promises, aid women who have been unfairly maligned
Anathema: Give someone more than you receive from them, allow yourself to be swayed by lust
Edicts: Push the boundaries of science and suffering, torture other creatures
Anathema: Show or act on emotion, allow a plea for mercy to sway you
Edicts: Avenge all insults, claim what you desire and deserve, humiliate your foes in ironic fashion
Anathema: Allow a slight to go unanswered, show humility or fear
Edicts Become an arbiter of reality, reject conventional wisdom as falsehood, capitalize on the ignorance of others
Anathema become too invested in mortal affairs, refuse to hear a truth out of preference for ignorance
Edicts: Frolic in vegetation, manipulate people, use what you kill, prey on the weak
Anathema: Hold a secret for too long, discriminate against sex workers or use their trade to harm them
Edicts: Play pranks, seek new jokes, leave lit lanterns in unusual places
Anathema: Be completely honest, ruin or explain a good joke
Edicts: achieve goals at any cost, continually improve your abilities, establish dominance, work ceaselessly
Anathema: fail to work toward goals or grow in skill, relax excessively or give into sloth
Edicts: Instill hydrophobia in others, kill your foes by drowning them, sacrifice treasures to the depths of the ocean
Anathema: Destroy a body of water, use magic to calm the waves
Edicts: be passionate and quick of wit, destroy your foes with fire, inspire your inferiors with zeal and strategy
Anathema: allow yourself to stagnate or lose motivation, extinguish destructive blazes
Edicts: Search for omens in the natural world, push the boundaries of mathematics, study past disasters
Anathema: Withhold your understanding of a portent, prevent the destruction of things that cannot be saved
Edicts: Recycle rot and waste into useful creations, eat the flesh of your own people, kill without mercy if it benefits your community, help to raise children
Anathema: Poison insects or scavengers, waste food or good materials, allow rot to poison an area, create undead
Edicts: Kill metallic dragons, destroy things at your whim
Anathema: Spare a foe after you have chosen to kill them, forgive a slight
Edicts: Expose hypocrisy (real or imagined) in others, make other creatures miserable, demand bribes to spare creatures from your torments
Anathema: Allow others to slight you without retaliation, seek the approval of society, forgive those who have wronged you
Edicts: offer sacrifices to Kitumu, feed the hungers of nature with humanoid creatures
Anathema: step on a firefly, kill those marked by Kitumu
Edicts: seek to return Ydersius to life, fulfill your passions, conquer your foes with no mercy, achieve glory for serpentkind
Anathema: put the needs of others above those of serpentfolk, aid the spawn of Azlant
Edicts: Spread Hastur’s Yellow Sign, hide the true nature of your worship, promulgate the play The King in Yellow
Anathema: None
Edicts: Gather a court of devotees, create discordant piping or babbling
Anathema: None
Edicts Steal luxuries for yourself, destroy property for fun, demand bribes to spare creatures from your torments
Anathema Work honestly for something you could steal instead, kill a monkey
Just for fun, you can roll 1d100 by the following list:
02: Hastur
03-04: Mahathallah
05-06: Ardad Lili
07-08: Nhimbaloth
09-10: Doloras
11-12: Eiseth
13: Shivaska
14-15: Zura
16-17: Pazuzu
18-19: Orcus
20-21: Dagon
22-28: Lamashtu
29-35: Norgorber
36-42: Urgathoa
43-49: Asmodeus
50-56: Zon-Kuthon
57-58: Baalzebul
59-60: Barbatos
61-62: Belial
63-64: Geryon
65-68: Gyronna
69: The Green Mother
70: The Lantern King
71-76: Naderi
77-82: Droskar
83-84: Charon
85-87: Kelizandri
88-90: Ymeri
90-93: Imot
94: Mother Vulture
95: Dahak
96: Kitumu
97-98: Ydersius
99: Lahkgya
100: Groetus
Assume characters are entering a party that is at least somewhat open-minded to clerics of ominous gods as long as the cleric themselves is well-behaved.
As in the rules, Anathemas are unavoidable, but Edicts are flexible. You can have a character who maybe just hasn't had the chance to struggle against an Anathema yet, though. You know, "Well, of course I'd free a slave if it came up, but I'm more focused on the contract stuff and I don't live in Cheliax. Frankly, I don't think Asmodeus really cares about that stuff, that sounds like something those Chelaxians tacked on."
In other words, future ex-clerics are fair game.
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Edicts: preach of the upcoming end times, destroy that which has outlived its usefulness, put the suffering out of their misery
Anathema: artificially extend something’s existence or lifespan, spread hope
Freidrick is... well, he's honestly pretty gloomy. The end times are coming, all shall end in despair, and nothing - absolutely nothing - is cause to ever feel hopeful about anything. He is constantly muttering and mumbling about it.
He'd be a real downer if it weren't for the fact that he's generally relatively quiet. Like, yeah, if you sit and listen for a while - really listen - you'll wind up feeling pretty depressed, so his party members don't do that.
The kicker, and the reason people tend to tolerate his tendencies, is his interpretation of "usefulness". As far as he's concerned, "usefulness" is a complicated concept that pertains to the benefits you bring to the world and the people in it... and those that prey on others and bring undue harm to the folks around them start "outliving their usefulness" pretty darned quickly. Oh hey - and when you destroy them properly, you often find that a bunch of folks who had been suffering aren't miserable anymore, so that's nice... as long as they understand that it's all hopeless and all for naught and everything is crawling to an inevitable end anyway. Wouldn't want anyone to get their hopes up. That's how you get really hurt.
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I have a friend playing a Lamashtu cleric who interprets these "make the beautiful monstrous, reveal the corruption and flaws in all things" as having a similar bent along an anarchist viewpoint.
They look at corrupt officials/celebrities/heroes that the public doesn't know realize their corruption as being "beautiful" in a societal viewpoint. These figures are accepted and loved by the majority and this cleric takes it upon himself to reveal their monstrous nature.
The player really pushes this aspect so that it's almost zealous and kind of obfuscates the less savory parts of his worship.
Makes an interesting twist on an outlaw campaign, especially since the player still will mar those that are physically "beautiful" in order to make them monstrous as well and tries (usually successfully) to sell it as the victim being corrupt.
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"All these other Zyphus worshipers have it all wrong. You see these cults that think they can go around setting lethal traps and then claiming the deaths as "accidental" are all just a bunch of morons who are sending souls to the boneyard and just reinforcing Phrasma's power and authority over death. A R-E-A-L devotee of the Harvestman understands that our purpose is to save anyone who would die an otherwise practical or purposeful death, which would include someone dying from a trap set for the purpose of "accidentally" killing someone. No, a pointless trap is a trap that just reminds someone that trying to die a meaningful death is actually just a meaningless gift to Phrasma's sense of self-importance.
The best way to make sure souls get where they really belong is to do everything you possibly can to make those around you feel invincible, so that they think no challenge can harm them, and get them to start taking ever-increasingly foolhardy risks with their life, until finally they die in such a way that truly serves no purpose at all, as that will be the one final end of all of this nonsense anyway."
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Edicts: Comfort and encourage lovers, help the suffering escape their circumstances in life or in death
Anathema: Dismiss or mock a creature’s grief, separate lovers, torture a creature
A concept I've had bouncing in my head for a while is a wandering Naderian priestess who journeys from town to town finding lost spirits and corrupted creatures that must be laid to rest. She's got kind of "sad, lonely gunslinger/noir detective" vibes, and rarely gets the chance to spend much time around the living, to solve "happy" problems. She is probably local to either the Mana Wastes or Ustalav. She might have a gun.
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Ardad Lili honestly sounds a little too easy XD So sorry RNG, I'm doing Hastur instead...
"Whatever are you talking about? Look, I'll admit, that last party got a bit out of hand, too much absinthe, we really ought to rein it in. But we had all those Caydenites turning up for the booze, and, well, look, one party god to another, we just... y'know. Had a good time. And look, what's so bad about the Yellow Sign? It's just a symbol. Nobody complains when Bob the Paharasmin stencils spirals all over the place! And as for the play, well... look. it's art. Come on, here, you don't even need to attend a performance, I'll just read some selected excerpts..."
Also... Rovagug. Challenge accepted.
"Look, it says I gotta destroy all things, right? It's right there, not a lot of grey areas. But I get to decide what order I do it in. Even the Rough Beast intends to save Shelyn for last, after all. So I'm starting with destroying chains, and those who use them. I expect to be busy for a very, very long time, 'cause there are a far too many of them out there, but when the last chain is sundered and the last slaver destroyed... I'll get to work on other tyrants."
Other than mother vulture, I am pretty sure all of those are evil gods. And the only truly problematic part for mother vulture clerics is their...diet.
The rest of the details are just normal murder hoboing as a good or neutral cleric. You know, murder for quests, horde every item you find, not really add anything to the local agriculture industry.
Honestly, I think mother vulture might make a suitable Lamashtu replacement for a player goblin. everything on that list seems right up a goblin's alley.
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Other than mother vulture, I am pretty sure all of those are evil gods.
Azathoth, Groeteus and Naderi, at the very least, are not.
EDIT: Also, I want to thank this thread for reminding me just how much I love the Queens of Night. They are exactly the kind of "reasonable evil" I love for a good villain or antihero's patron.
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This reminds me that one of my first character ideas(that I never played for being too edgy for my soft heart) was Zon-Kuthon cleric I called "Candle Wax Man".
Concept name should say enough, but it was basically LN cleric with philosophy of enlightenment by numbing their anguish with constant physical pain, with idea that character could go LE (start doing his practice on others as well) or get redeemed (stop pouring wax all together) depending on story goes.
Considering I can only play goody two shoes, yeah I obviously never would have played the idea, but it was fun theory crafting x'D
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But yeah, Azathoth actually seems like a really fun deity to build a cleric around. Just a goofy cleric trying to start a band.
Imot and the Lantern King are also not pre-Remaster-evil, by the by. There are a couple other "nonevil" gods, too. Of course, strictly speaking, "evil" doesn't exist anymore as an objective qualifier. Plenty of gods are still obviously awful, but plenty others are becoming a lot more complicated thanks to the change. Holy/Unholy aside, how does a given game feel about gods like Groetus, Kalekot, Nocticula, Walkena, Abadar, Aroden or Naderi? It's going to depend on the storyteller's own point of view, their ideology. There's a lot more wiggle room. I know how I see it, but someone else might see it differently. Do I even consider Gyronna or the Green Mother to be "evil", or are they too alien, too fae, to be measured by such crass terms? Is the gold dragon running that one eugenics island "evil"? Yeah, I'd say so. But there's no game engine telling me I'm right or wrong. That's just what I believe.
There's a reason this thread is titled, "Problematic Gods", not "Evil Gods". "Evil Gods" isn't as useful a term as it used to be. This thread isn't just for the wicked. It's for the hot messes, too.
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I rolled an 81, and learned about Droskar!
And, I mean, he sounds like just a normal adventure?
The anathemae are easy, just be super frenetic during downtime, literarily do not let a day of downtime pass without earning income. Always keep dragging party forward, complain when the spell casters have to rest.
For the edicts, again, without the evil tag, they seem right on target. Be pushy and all alpha-chaddy and you are on target. You are just mildly annoying.
I have an Oracle of Life of Lamashtu embodying her aspect as Mother of Monsters, quite literally actually as her womb is the source of her Oracly powers and give birth to incredible children (according to her). Children that she then abandons, to the father, ideally, some orphanage, often, or to the river (she is evil after all).
She also refuses to end any life, especially the one of awful creatures. She considers that good and evil are the 2 sides of the same coin and as such always work at showing the uglyness and corruption of the apparent do-gooders. She is also defending the downtrodden, the outcast, the other. And her main motive for adventuring is glory: she craves for attention.
Overall a rather distateful character but not a disruptive one and healers tend to be appreciated around tables.
I find Lamashtu to be a very interesting evil. She encompasses aspects that are in general associated with good deities (birth, defending the downtrodden) but with an evil point of view. A very interesting deity to play with.
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We were discussing with a friend some time back how you can be a perfectly fine follower of Baphomet by just being a guy that messes with maps, street signs or roadsigns, no other "evil" required.
Edicts Confuse paths and roads, outwit your foes instead of overpowering them, pace labyrinths
Anathema Kill something that cannot significantly harm you, bargain with Asmodeus
All of these are incredibly tame, and it did lead to the idea of a breather quest tracking "a dangerous demon lord cultist" who is just a dude stealing street signs to annoy people. For the glory of Baphomet, of course!
(also, the fact that "confuse paths and roads" is vague enough that a guy with a terrible sense of direction technically fits caused no end of mirth too)
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Hello, everyone!
So, some recent conversations elsewhere about the challenges in playing Kuthite cleric PCs got me thinking about what a fun prompt it can be. Putting aside whether Zon-Kuthon is an easy god for a PC to worship, you can definitely create a cleric who follows him who can still function in a typical party!
I think that's a neat idea to explore for all the evil or "iffy" gods! I thought we could take a stab at it.
For everyone's reference, here are the edicts/anathemas for some of the sketchier gods of Golarion. Remember: The goal is a PC who can play nice with others.
** spoiler omitted **...
goddamn it's good to see you again.
I am surprised Gorum was not included in the list.
Gorum is actually kind of the opposite of some of these. He's a deity where their basic deal passes the smell test immediately (a la "okay, he's the war god, got it") but the more you emphasize his actual edicts and anathema the more like a maniac you seem. The "prevent conflict through negotiation" is a hard one to get around if you want to be nice.
Whereas Mahathallah is an honest to goodness Queen of Night who is comfortable in Hell, but you can play a devout cleric of her who is more or less a normal person that just sounds like some of the annoying people you encounter on social media.
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I am surprised Gorum was not included in the list.Gorum is actually kind of the opposite of some of these. He's a deity where their basic deal passes the smell test immediately (a la "okay, he's the war god, got it") but the more you emphasize his actual edicts and anathema the more like a maniac you seem. The "prevent conflict through negotiation" is a hard one to get around if you want to be nice.
Whereas Mahathallah is an honest to goodness Queen of Night who is comfortable in Hell, but you can play a devout cleric of her who is more or less a normal person that just sounds like some of the annoying people you encounter on social media.
The anathema is for the Gorumite PC only. It does not apply to what other PCs are doing.
Like all anathema actually.
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"Prevent conflict through negotiation" just means you'll lose Gorum's favor if you pull a Chamberlain. If the other side decides that whatever they're fighting for isn't worth dealing with you, that's on them.
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We were discussing with a friend some time back how you can be a perfectly fine follower of Baphomet by just being a guy that messes with maps, street signs or roadsigns, no other "evil" required.
Edicts Confuse paths and roads, outwit your foes instead of overpowering them, pace labyrinths
Anathema Kill something that cannot significantly harm you, bargain with AsmodeusAll of these are incredibly tame, and it did lead to the idea of a breather quest tracking "a dangerous demon lord cultist" who is just a dude stealing street signs to annoy people. For the glory of Baphomet, of course!
(also, the fact that "confuse paths and roads" is vague enough that a guy with a terrible sense of direction technically fits caused no end of mirth too)
That's Wiley Coyote to a T.
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You could just only heal using Risky Surgery. That way you are inflicting more pain while also making sure they don’t die. So they can experience more pain.
My witch uses Soothe, but justifies it as the subject needing to be able to experience the new pains fresh, so that they can properly describe how it feels. But not a Cleric, so not as bound by the anathema.
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(Every time I read this thread title I read it as “Problematic Clerics, Friendly Gods”. Makes enough sense to me.)
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Urgathoa wrote:
Edicts: become undead upon death, create or protect the undead, sate your appetites
Anathema: deny your appetites, destroy undead, sacrifice your life
he was a halfling slave in a particularly cruel house in Cheliax. He lived his whole life, despite his race, never knowing a full belly. He himself was not a cruel person. He did not wish one moment of his suffering on others, even his enslavers. What he wished for was a chance, just a chance, to for once... eat his fill. And with this dying thought on his mind, and his near lifeless body was dumped in a mausoleam. The nacent necromatic energies seeped into his flesh as the cool dry air slowly mummified him alive.
He awoke suddenly. his body creeking but strong. He was a mummy. He heard the Palid Princess' voice. "I give you this chance. go, eat your fill. Defend my children." And so, he snuck from catacombs where he'd been discarded. And fled into the night. He stole food stores and not only enjoyed them himself, but shared them with the slaves and servents around him who like him, had never known fullness. And he spread the word of the lady who did not desire your life or your death. Who only desired you to be honest, and to keep going as long as your will could maintain.
He lead a rebellion that became known as the Rotten Rebellion. And whenever his own soldiers fell, he offered them the strength his mistress could give. Zombies, Skeletons, and ghosts filled his ranks as the people said "no! I was denied this world in life, I will stay until I've had my fill!"
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Asmodeus wrote:
Edicts: negotiate contracts to your best advantage, rule tyrannically and torture weaker beings, show subservience to your betters
Anathema break a contract, free a slave, insult Asmodeus by showing mercy to your enemies
There were very few who visited his offices willingly. However so many eventually needed to. His numerous "employees" all operated under numerous contracts.
The nobles all feared him for his vicious and air-tight contracts. They were shocked by the strictness he took with his servents. All could read and all worked tirelessly for him.
What the nobles he looked down on didn't realize is that he taught his employees to read,to understand law and contract, and that their servitude contracts had buy out clauses, and he paid his "employees" well so that they reflected his magnificence. Most, when they took advantage of the buy out clause, either took the first ship in the harbor across the inner sea, others stayed on. He intended to make sure the lazy worthless nobles who had kept his family in poverty would learn their place, and they would lament as those they undervalued were not only raised up, but raised up and loyal to him.
He does not free a slave, the slave frees themself. and it is the lazy self-import nobles he views as weaker, and enemies.
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Okay, I rolled Gyronna which is a bit difficult because it's one of the deities that I'm less familiar with.
So, pasting this here for ease of reference so I don't have to keep scrolling to look at it:
Gyronna wrote:
Edicts: Expose hypocrisy (real or imagined) in others, make other creatures miserable, demand bribes to spare creatures from your torments
Anathema: Allow others to slight you without retaliation, seek the approval of society, forgive those who have wronged you
Other part of the game, I have to make a friendly or at least somewhat likeable follower.
Already off to a rough start because my first thought was a P.I., one that specialized in those dirty, trashy, lurid divorce cases. An Elven man, probably an Alchemist, who has access to all sorts of potions, creams, ointments, and serums that allow him to drastically alter his face, hair, gender, everything, all in service of 'testing' spouses. Little bit hard-boiled, a little noir, but mostly tired and just done with the world. Always happy to show off the results of his hard work but equally amenable to making it all go away. But the good lords help you if you try to skimp on that bribe. He'll take your money and then sell you out anyway. Honestly I'm getting kind of Veronica Mars vibes from this, which I'm not hating. Great for an adventure with a really locked in urban locale, where he can take advantage of knowing the ins and outs of the city.
Oooooo, just had an idea also great for a city adventure, I'm thinking a campaign that is wholly inside Korvosa or the like. A bouncer at an underground club of questionable legality. Good natured and jovial, but if you try to sneak in or jump the line or pass off false credentials you will get your ass handed to you. Everything's fine until you make it personal, at which point there are two solutions: Blood or Money. If you skimp on one, they'll make up for it with the other.
Everything's fine until you make it personal really feels like a Gyronna thing.
"Look, you tried to scam the system which I get but if you're going to scam you have to at least be good at it. Make me work for it. This? This was just sloppy. Amateur hour all around. Now, you have three options. First, you can just turn around and walk away with your tail between your legs for a little bit. No harm no foul life goes on and maybe you get better or maybe you get dead it makes no matter to me. Second, a couple pouches of platinum can go a long way to making up for the deficits of your plan and I just walk away and we pretend we never met. You go forward, life goes on, you get better or maybe you get dead, makes no matter to me."
"Oh. Oh you're going to spit on me and try to shove past me? Option three it is. Don't worry though. Make this fun and I might leave you enough coin to pay for Sarenrae's healing. Make it less than fun, and you won't have to worry about paying for the healing, it won't help."
Oooo I like this character. If this were 1e I'd play them as a Hinyasi Brawler. Just fists and whatever happens to be laying around. Half-Elven pretty enby, the kind of person you aren't sure if they're strong or not until you feel their rock solid coiled muscles breaking your jaw. High Charisma, lots of points in Diplomacy and Intimidate, with a really innocuous name. Something like Mint. They have almost pastel green hair that is completely unnatural looking but never shows roots. Dresses in dark greens and blacks, definitely not flowy but not restrictive; comfortable. Unholy symbol of Gyronna tattooed on the back of their right shoulder. Surprisingly has two living parents, although Mint doesn't talk to them much. Not much to say after they put their father into Sarenrae's care for a couple of weeks after what he said. Should have known better than to preach one thing while doing another.
Oooh, this is fun!
Zura wrote:
Edicts: Drink blood, seek vampirism, cause bleed damageAnathema: Expose vampires, heal a bloody wound without drinking blood from it first
Bloodypenny, Hemophagic Healer
This cute, small bodied girl wears naught but the latest fashions and elaborate hairstyles, and would seem far more at home in a salon or something similar, but is instead often found in the far flung corners of Golarion, pursuing rumors of Atzlanti artifacts and sites of power. Friendly but professional, she prefers to join adventuring parties on a very limited basis as a healer out of necessity as well as preference- she is a bloodletter by trade, and while adventurers from cultures where that ancient practice is still upheld are vaguely familiar with her trappings, few are truly accepting of her habits of retaining bits of bloody gauze to gnaw upon absent-mindedly in times of stress, her regular drawings of samples blood to examine for blood-based diseases(never less than once every other day- one can never be too careful), or strangest of all for a cleric- her outright refusal to do battle with intelligent undead(although she will negotiate and even argue with them in lieu of combat, and she will defend herself and her allies if attacked without cause). She is quite skilled with her incredibly expensive custom rapier; a skilled combatant(probably a rogue or a fighter by class) who observes her in action can tell there is something unique about the wounds the weapon leaves behind, anyone who makes a heal check on a being she has dispatched with it can tell that that rapier is hollow and is likely filled with the blood of her victims.
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In contrast to Sanityfaerie, my Groetus cleric, Unsaint Visibini, was incredibly upbeat. She belongs to a splinter sect of Groetus worshipers who believe that the end of all things, while sad or whatever, has to be absolutely amazing to be able to observe. Their only real aphorism is "witness, and enjoy." They take it upon themselves to get everybody excited for the show to end all shows, literally.
She doesn't see this goal as a violation of Groetus' anathema of spreading hope, because, while you can enjoy seeing all existence end, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, you can do to stop you and everything and everyone you ever knew from evaporating into oblivion. She will make sure you have a snack, however.
I like this! I've always felt an annoyingly cheerful cleric of Groetus whose philosophy is more along the lines of "We're all gonna die and be forgotten about, and eventually the Universe will too, so why get upset about it?! Enjoy your life AND your death!" would be fun to play, and if you roleplayed them as oblivious to the fact that people find their blithe nihilism creepy and upsetting, it'd side-step the anathema of spreading hope.
Groetus wrote:
Edicts: preach of the upcoming end times, destroy that which has outlived its usefulness, put the suffering out of their miseryAnathema: artificially extend something’s existence or lifespan, spread hope
Vero, Forgery Forge
This tall, broad man is the proprietor of the grim-sounding Doomforge, a very small smithy specializing in custom orders for people who think themselves a bit more important than they actually are. Naturally, this means a great many adventurers use his services, and he is more than happy to provide them with all manner of dirks, maces, kukri, curiasses and other similar tools of the trade. What noone knows is that he is an adherent of Groetus, and that each person who makes use of his by-referral-only service is subject to Vero's auguries upon their first meeting. His god informs them of when their Last Day is to be, and as his instrument, Vero forges items that are designed to fail around that time. Shields splinter, blades break, and armor sloughs off. He has recently been approached by a worshipper of Norgorber(who was in turn referred by a fellow Groetite) and asked about the possibility of him making weapons and armor exclusively for people whom both Norgorbor and Groetus- through their servants, of course- have agreed have outlived their usefulness. Vero is considering the permutations of this, even as his god whispers that the Norgorberite has fulfilled his own purpose in proposing the idea to Vero...
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Ymeri wrote:
Edicts: be passionate and quick of wit, destroy your foes with fire, inspire your inferiors with zeal and strategyAnathema: allow yourself to stagnate or lose motivation, extinguish destructive blazes
Venna, Arson Artiste
Beautiful, with long, flowing hair and eyes that speak of madness lurking within, Venna KNOWS she is hot. Literally. She is regularly hired out by all manner of unsavory business people to start fires in rival businesses- but she goes out this in a strange way. She will usually wait until some sort of ribald party is being held at that location, and will arrive in the guise of a tastefully- clad fire dancer or acrobat or something similar who will put on a show that "accidentally" causes a fire to break out. She never apologizes or stops, often commanding concerned onlookers to take on the blaze while she continues her performance. Immune to their effects even as she magically, silently directs them, she is the eye of the storm as fire engulfs the establishment.
Hell with it, I'll indulge in a couple of easy ones-
Geryon-
Edicts: Hoard knowledge, test the boundaries of taboo, spread falsehoods to dupe the foolhardy
Anathema: Declare knowledge heresy or forbidden, break your word
A guy who always keeps his word, and only lies to dupe the foolhardy? A guy who prizes all knowledge? Testing the boundaries of taboo? Hell, that sounds almost heroic to me!
"If you fall for my deceit, it's just a learning opportunity. Sharpen up those old mental muscles!"
Ardad Lili-
Edicts: Manipulate others with false promises, aid women who have been unfairly maligned
Anathema: Give someone more than you receive from them, allow yourself to be swayed by lust
Just for fun... gonna go with a male cleric here, a guy raised by his single mother, who worked herself ragged providing for him. He never went hungry, he never lacked for a safe place to sleep, even if maybe they were poor in other ways. But since his mother was unwed and his father unknown, he had to put up with a lot of crap from his peers, from random guys propositioning his mother because they figured she must be an easy lay, from sanctimonious community leaders... and when his mother died fairly young, due to overwork and stress, he swore he'd show those bastards just how badly they'd screwed up by treating his mother with such disrespect.
Eiseth-
Edicts: Avenge all insults, claim what you desire and deserve, humiliate your foes in ironic fashion
Anathema: Allow a slight to go unanswered, show humility or fear
Oh look, it's basically how Owlcat wrote Amiri!
Lahkgya wrote:
Edicts Steal luxuries for yourself, destroy property for fun, demand bribes to spare creatures from your torments
Anathema Work honestly for something you could steal instead, kill a monkey
"Welcome to Cheliax! My name is Amalinze, I just got here myself, just in from what these jokers keep calling 'the Mwangi Expanse' for some reason. Rubes. Anyway, let me tell you, these rich scumbags don't deserve anything they have. So I'm gonna take as much of it as I can, and laugh in their faces. Wanna help?"
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I like this! I've always felt an annoyingly cheerful cleric of Groetus whose philosophy is more along the lines of "We're all gonna die and be forgotten about, and eventually the Universe will too, so why get upset about it?! Enjoy your life AND your death!" would be fun to play, and if you roleplayed them as oblivious to the fact that people find their blithe nihilism creepy and upsetting, it'd side-step the anathema of spreading hope.In contrast to Sanityfaerie, my Groetus cleric, Unsaint Visibini, was incredibly upbeat. She belongs to a splinter sect of Groetus worshipers who believe that the end of all things, while sad or whatever, has to be absolutely amazing to be able to observe. Their only real aphorism is "witness, and enjoy." They take it upon themselves to get everybody excited for the show to end all shows, literally.
She doesn't see this goal as a violation of Groetus' anathema of spreading hope, because, while you can enjoy seeing all existence end, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, you can do to stop you and everything and everyone you ever knew from evaporating into oblivion. She will make sure you have a snack, however.I don't know if she was oblivious or uncaring. Either way it didn't upset her very much.
"Excuse me, sir. Have you heard the good word of Groetus?"
"Um, no?"
"That's alright, there isn't one!"
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply YOUR character concept was either of those things! I was just providing a similar take on the concept I'd like to roleplay myself.
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roll => 42 => Urgathoa
Reste is a staunch undead preservationist. Her stance towards hostile undead is to capture them and release them somewhere where they won't harm people or be harmed by them. Her long term plans includes opening an undead "wildlife reserve" where she could safely harbour large numbers of undead and study them in peace.
I have an Oracle of Life of Lamashtu embodying her aspect as Mother of Monsters, quite literally actually as her womb is the source of her Oracly powers and give birth to incredible children (according to her). Children that she then abandons, to the father, ideally, some orphanage, often, or to the river (she is evil after all).
She also refuses to end any life, especially the one of awful creatures. She considers that good and evil are the 2 sides of the same coin and as such always work at showing the uglyness and corruption of the apparent do-gooders. She is also defending the downtrodden, the outcast, the other. And her main motive for adventuring is glory: she craves for attention.
How do you square the circle on "refuses to end any life" plus "abandons her own children to the river"?
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How do you square the circle on "refuses to end any life" plus "abandons her own children to the river"?I have an Oracle of Life of Lamashtu embodying her aspect as Mother of Monsters, quite literally actually as her womb is the source of her Oracly powers and give birth to incredible children (according to her). Children that she then abandons, to the father, ideally, some orphanage, often, or to the river (she is evil after all).
She also refuses to end any life, especially the one of awful creatures. She considers that good and evil are the 2 sides of the same coin and as such always work at showing the uglyness and corruption of the apparent do-gooders. She is also defending the downtrodden, the outcast, the other. And her main motive for adventuring is glory: she craves for attention.
Not the author of that character, but if the children survive the river, that's beyond the character's purview? Note: Was not stated as 'actively drowned'.
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How do you square the circle on "refuses to end any life" plus "abandons her own children to the river"?I have an Oracle of Life of Lamashtu embodying her aspect as Mother of Monsters, quite literally actually as her womb is the source of her Oracly powers and give birth to incredible children (according to her). Children that she then abandons, to the father, ideally, some orphanage, often, or to the river (she is evil after all).
She also refuses to end any life, especially the one of awful creatures. She considers that good and evil are the 2 sides of the same coin and as such always work at showing the uglyness and corruption of the apparent do-gooders. She is also defending the downtrodden, the outcast, the other. And her main motive for adventuring is glory: she craves for attention.Not the author of that character, but if the children survive the river, that's beyond the character's purview? Note: Was not stated as 'actively drowned'.
** spoiler omitted **
Indeed. Survival of the fittest.
How do you square the circle on "refuses to end any life" plus "abandons her own children to the river"?
Her "do not raise a child by yourself" anathema is much higher than her "do not kill" anathema ;)
Also: Humans are no rational creatures. You can be a doctor and smoke, a scientist and believe in god, etc... We can accept a certain level of paradox in our lives. And I think it makes us more human than considering a perfect adherence to general principles.
So, yes, she sometimes abandons her children to what can be considered a certain death. But she does it mostly when the child is "uninteresting" from her special (and quite sick) point of view. Similarly, her "do not kill" anathema will be far less respected if she's facing a basic human (boriiing!!!) than if she's facing an awful creature. But as an Oracle of Life her chance of killing anything is rather low anyway. And even if she always tries to convince the party to use non-lethal damage as much as possible she doesn't succeed very often.
What is sure (and important) is that she considers murder like any good character. So she won't be disruptive on that regard (as adventuring with a cold-blooded murderer is a no go to many good characters).
Asmodeus.
Edicts: negotiate contracts to your best advantage, rule tyrannically and torture weaker beings, show subservience to your betters
Anathema break a contract, free a slave, insult Asmodeus by showing mercy to your enemies
Guess it's time to start a career in politics, huh?
"negotiate contracts to your best advantage" : I'll be the face of the party and always negotiate to our advantage, for the good of my followers. Because they are followers, let's not forget about that.
"rule tyrannically and torture weaker beings" : Yes I *will* whip up to shape slackers in the group, but trust me it's for your own good, because I know you can do more.
"show subservience to your betters" : Always respect authority. Easy enough. Of course, I will negotiate with them so that we may gain an advantage on every occasion.
"break a contract" : Easy enough, never break a promise.
"free a slave" : Slaves will not be freed, but relocated under new management. Which is to say, mine. But don't worry, I will treat you humanely. It's a promise.
"insult Asmodeus by showing mercy to your enemies" : Unfortunately, my dear PAladin friend, mercy rarely, if ever, works. The foes you spare today will most likely come back to haunt you or those close to you. It is therefore better to get rid of them or, if the occasion presents itself, have them switch to your side. Do not worry, I have already a new contract for them to sign.
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A reminder that I'd personally like to avoid getting into the can of worms of creating characters who justify slavery, even if a lot of the characters people are coming up with here are definitely not meant to be particularly likeable.
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A reminder that I'd personally like to avoid getting into the can of worms of creating characters who justify slavery, even if a lot of the characters people are coming up with here are definitely not meant to be particularly likeable.
Yeah... there are a few too many people out there who are... independently motivated on that one. Like, I like a good twist on Asmodeus at least as well as the next person, but....
Edicts: Convey yourself with regal dignity, claim what you desire and deserve, seek vengeance from those who wrong you
Anathema: Provoke Baalzebul’s envy, show humility
Melethon is a loyal priest of Baalzebul... and, like all of his ilk, he's a bit on the arrogant side. This wouldn't do much to recommend him, except that he was born and raised among the upper class of Lastwall, and was forced to flee his ancestral lands as a child. Those lands were his birthright! They belonged to him.
Melethon has been utterly dedicated to the task of casting down the Whispering Tyrant and reclaiming htose ancestral lands ever since. He works with the Crimson Reclaimers these days, often accompanying their undead members. It lets him put his harm font to good use. He's still just a bit of an arrogant ass... but he's got the fire in him, and while he continues to be a loyal (and open) follower of his own god... well, by happenstance he winds up following Arazni's edicts and anathema pretty well too.
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[dice=And the god roll is...]1d100
Asmodeus.
Edicts: negotiate contracts to your best advantage, rule tyrannically and torture weaker beings, show subservience to your betters
Anathema break a contract, free a slave, insult Asmodeus by showing mercy to your enemies
Those edicts and anathema are pre-remaster. The new ones for Asmodeus are:
Edicts negotiate contracts to your best advantage, rule tyrannically
and torture weaker beings, show subservience to your betters
Anathema break a contract, share power with the weak, insult
Asmodeus by showing mercy to your enemies.
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The "free a slave" Anathema for Asmodeus never really even made sense. Like if B is subordinate to A in the hierarchy, and A wants to punish B by "liberating" all of B's servants leaving B disadvantaged in that there's now no one to cook or tend the fields or w/e, that is consistent.
Which is why my model for the "friendly Asmodean" is the tyrant who ruthlessly oppresses exclusively those who are directly subordinate to them, oftentimes to the benefit of those who are subordinate to their subordinates.
Like as a Chellish Paracount you are an absolute scourge of any Archbaron or Archbaroness that darkens your doorstep, to the accidental benefit of various commoners and perhaps a Baron or Demibaron.
[dice=And the god roll is...]1d100
Asmodeus.
Edicts: negotiate contracts to your best advantage, rule tyrannically and torture weaker beings, show subservience to your betters
Anathema break a contract, free a slave, insult Asmodeus by showing mercy to your enemiesThose edicts and anathema are pre-remaster. The new ones for Asmodeus are:
Edicts negotiate contracts to your best advantage, rule tyrannically
and torture weaker beings, show subservience to your betters
Anathema break a contract, share power with the weak, insult
Asmodeus by showing mercy to your enemies.
Thanks for sharing! One weak point of the OP is that I only had the unupdated PRD on hand. I like these a lot better.