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If I'm reading the Incorporeal entry correctly, an Incorporeal creature can attack from inside an object. When it does so, the target of its attack has total concealment (50% miss chance) but after the attack resolves, and assuming the target did not have a readied action, the incorporeal creature has total cover and cannot be attacked.

Is that right?

If that's the case, an intelligent Incorporeal creature (or Earthglider, to extend the rules to that - which seems reasonable to me) can simply never be attacked ever, or at the very least have the entirety of the opposition "readied" as they should attack, move to someone else, attack again, and so on.

I know the standard response to "That seems a little overpowered" is "well you can use it too" but that doesn't make it any less overpowered! Getting constantly attacked by things that you can't attack back would be a Royal Pain In The Ass, IMO...

I'm not giving all the enemy casters Move Earth, that's the sort of "out of game" (i.e. metagame) thinking that just leads to bad feelings ("What do you mean they all just happen to have that specific spell, which no one memorises, like, ever..")

Also no attack at all would SUCK - it would make summoned Earth Elementals super cheesy. I'm sure the players would hate it if I did that to them!

I can see (esp since Earth Glide says that no tunnel is made) that there would be cover involved; however, the way cover works in melee means if the Druid/Elemental has cover from the thing it's attacking, the thing it's attacking has exactly the same cover from the Druid/Elemental. That's the other possibility I'm considering.

I know this has been somewhat debated, but I have a very specific question that I'd like opinions on please :)

Here's the situation: We have a Lvl7 Druid, in Earth Elemental form. He is Earthgliding through a natural and worked stone dungeon. I have ruled that he cannot see through any thickness of stone, although he is able to navigate somewhat as long as he's careful about how he moves.

I have also ruled (and this is NOT up for debate in this thread please) that if he is in a "wall" square - that is a square which is immediately adjacent to an air space - then he can see out of that square and into the room.

My question is this: He has 5' reach. Can he attack people standing next to the wall? If so, can they attack him back?

Here's my thinking, and it goes against pretty much everything that I've seen on the boards here so far, which is why I'm posting for comments.

He can attack adjacent squares. Adjacent squares can attack him. Both at no penalty whatsoever.

Here's my reasoning:

It's more or less assumed that the "Space" entry in the Space, Reach and Threatened Area chart is the complete area the creature takes up; a Space of 5ft, combined with a Reach of 5ft (the default for Small and Medium creatures) means that there's really a 15-foot wide area that the character can affect, and that's explained (more or less) by saying that the character either

a) Takes up the entirety of the 5ft square it's in or
b) Is moving around such that over the course of a round it is, at some point, in every point of that square.

In either case, there is no room for anything else in that square; therefore there is nothing between the Earthgliding creature and the creature in the room.

Another consequence of this line of thinking is that the Druid (or Earth Elementals for that matter) are 100% discernable when they are at the surface of stone.

Does that sound reasonable to you folk?

Thanks guys, looks like I nearly (but didn't) get it right - one question though:

Nikolaus: You say that Large --> Huge is -2 BaB; The BaB itself is unchanged but the Dex -2 and Size +1 each give a -1 to hit. Is that what you meant?

Cheers
Viperion

Hi all,

I've done a search on these forums here and although there are a number of topics on this, uh, topic, I can't find one that actually goes through and does all the math. I tried to advance a monster yesterday and although I think I've got it figured out I'd like someone (or a group of someones) to do it as well and see if I did it correctly.

Consider the challenge made, the gauntlet thrown, and the judges looking disapprovingly on, clicking their pens and looking at their watches....

YOUR TASK
Take a Howler (CR 3) and make it CR7, including (and this is the bit that threw me for several loops) changing it's size from Large to Huge. What is the final stat block for this creature?

Go!

:P

Viperion

Thanks guys :)

Jubal: I don't think Boon Companion lets a Ranger take a Tiger as a companion - the Ranger list of allowable companions is much smaller than the Druid one, and doesn't have Tiger on it at all (more specifically now that I've looked it up, Rangers get Cat, Small but not Cat, Large. They can have Leopards or Cheetahs (never mind that Leopards are one of the larger cats around ;) ) but not Lions or Tigers). It would boost the companion up to the same level as the Druid's one, but in this case the Ranger has taken the "share favoured enemy" version of Hunter's Bond (but that's only because we thought the Ranger animal companion was rather weak, which Boon Companion would offset)

I'll suggest Weapon Focus, Iron Will and Quick Draw to the player and see if she wants one of them. Weapon Focus may be the goer here since she'll be combining Rapid+Many+Deadly Aim more often than not ;)

x9ss: Reckless Aim sounds good, but it's from a book we're not using (I probably should have specified :P) We're only using Core and APG in this game.

Hobbling Attack is so much better than Tangling Attack - you can declare Hobbling attack after you hit, where with Tangling Attack you have to declare it before you roll to hit. Both are essentially 1/2 speed, Hobbling Attack lasts as long or longer than Tangling Attack does. Likewise, we debated Defensive Bow Stance vs Surprise Shift and decided Surprise Shift was the better option - they're both Swift Actions, so that's a wash, and even though with DBS you can shoot at the guy in your face, with Surprise Shift you can use that, then move away and still get a shot off, making them expend some movement to get a full attack on you.

Morgen: Any suggestions?

Hi Folks,

We've had a new player join our group and she's making a Ranger (Skirmisher). We've got a couple of questions;

What feat should she take as her 5th level character feat? So far she has these:

1: Point Blank Shot
1Human: Rapid Shot
2Ranger: Precise Shot (Archery Combat Style)
3: Deadly Aim
5: ???
6Ranger: Improved Precise Shot
7: Manyshot

She can't take Manyshot or Improved Precise Shot at 5th because of BaB issues, so she has to take them when she did.

We're collectively drawing a blank on her 5th level feat. So far we have Improved Initiative pencilled in, but with Improved Precise Shot it doesn't really matter whether she's shooting before or after the hitters engage in combat.

Also, which Skirmisher abilities are good? At 7th level she gets two and has chosen Hobbling Strike and (IIRC) Surprise Shift.

It's a fairly standard hack 'n slay campaign (we're playing through the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil module) and the other party members are:

Human Barbarian (hits stuff HARD)
Dwarven Druid + Tiger companion (hits even harder than the Barbarian)
Dwarven Rogue/Cleric
Human Sorceror
Halfling Life Oracle

I'm running the game.

Cheers
Viperion

Thanks all :)

@Anetra: According to this PF SRD entry the Very Young Blue has a +12 Fly (although I didn't check the math, I just used it as-is), so it only needed an 8 for a vertical take off.

Edit Just realised that's because the Very Young is Medium while the Young is Large and therefore gets penalties on it's Fly skill; I think it's pretty funny that it gets worse at flying as it gets older :D

@Caderyn: Yeah, it would have been trivial to make the encounter unwinnable for the PC's but where's the fun in that? This dragon has been tormenting people for the last week or so and had got cocky. It was cut down in two rounds, so didn't have a lot of chance to realise it's mistake ;)

So to restate my question, if it had flown 45degrees back and 45degrees up as a withdraw action, only Grumund would have had an AoO? Or possibly not even then, since the dragon is now above him?

Update: Had this fight last night. The dragon came out and breathed on 3 of the 5, then again the next round (rolled a 1 on recharge time) and got two. It landed and laid into the Barbarian for a round, but then got damaged enough that it tried to escape and was cut down by AoO's.

Couple of questions:

If you have a fly speed, can you Withdraw "up"? (I assume yes)

When you withdraw, the square you start in doesn't count for AoO's. How high would the dragon be when the PC's could make their AoO?

The situation was like this:

. S
. K
.
. D
. G

Where S=Surgat (Cleric of Pelor), K = Korag (Barbarian with a Glaive), D = Dragon, and G=Grumund (Cleric/Rogue of Moradin).

K and G are flanking due to the Glaive's reach. Could the dragon use the withdraw action, flying to:

. S
. K
.
.
. GD

As it's first move, thus only letting Grumund have an AoO against it? What actually happened is that it went straight up, got AoO's from both Grumund and Korag, and was reduced to somewhere around -20 hp....

Basically, I screwed up, but the party now has a Dragon corpse, so they're happy ;) I don't mind, and it makes a cool story :) I'm just wondering for future fights where it may be important for an NPC with a Fly speed to get away.

Cheers all
Viperion

OK first Draft:

Force Domain

Granted Powers: You can project a bolt of force, and manipulate forces in your favour.

Force Bolt (Sp): As a standard action, you can unleash a bolt of divine force from your outstretched hand. You can target any single foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack with this bolt. If you hit the foe, the force bolt deals 1d4 points of force damage + 1 point for every two cleric levels you possess, and you make a Bull Rush attempt against the target. Your CMB for this attack uses your caster level as your BAB and your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength modifier. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Force Manipulation (Su): At 8th level you may re-roll the result of any Bull Rush, Sunder, Trip, damage roll of any spell with the Force descriptor, or melee damage roll you make, keeping the better of the two results. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your cleric level.

Domain Spells:
1st Mage Armour
2nd Magic Missile
3rd Force Punch
4th Resilient Sphere
5th Wall of Force
6th Repulsion
7th Forcecage
8th Telekinetic Sphere
9th Annihilation (new spell)

Annihilation
School: Evocation (Force)
Level: Sorceror/Wizard 9, Force 9
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V,S
Range:: Medium
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Using a blast of dark force, you tear a temporary hole in the fabric of reality. This hole takes on the form of a sphere of annihilation. You control the sphere as if you possessed a talisman of the sphere. At the end of the duration, the hole seals itself and the sphere disappears.

No one? Bueller? Anyone?

I'll have a crack at this and put it up in a few hours. Really blanking on the 8th level domain power though, as it's something unique to Pathfinder and there's no equivalent to draw on from D&D. Is there a guideline somewhere for designing the domain powers?

Hi Folks,

I'm starting to run the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, and I need a Pathfinder conversion for the "Force" domain detailed in there.

I found this doc, but I'm not fond of the way it's worded (essentially you can use up a Standard Action in advance, but without readying, to make someone else re-roll)

Have there been other conversions in other places?

Cheers All
Viperion

(Minor spoilers ahead; probably safe to read)

Woah.

I started running this module just last week :)

I'm basically planning to wing it, and simply substitute monsters for monsters without worrying too much about the details. For example if the module is just using Gnolls, I just use Gnolls. I'm trying to keep the CR's about the same - there's a dragon who has mysteriously lost an age category going from D&D to Pathfinder - but otherwise am keeping them the same.

As for the NPC's - I'm eyeballing them and just running with the numbers which are pretty much right for D&D 3.0, but wrong for 3.5 anyway. That will more than likely have to change when/if NPC's actually join the party as I'll have to stat out the NPC properly.

I'm not aware of an already existing algorithm/program to convert "x-level" D&D NPCs from 3.5 to Pathfinder, let alone 3.0 to Pathfinder. I think you and I have some work ahead of us :)

While I'm on the subject (and I'm going to make a thread on this) - have you had any thoughts on the "Force" domain that is listed in that book?

That is fantastic advice BruteSquad :) Thanks!

Heh, yeah guess I didn't specify what they had in the party ;)

There is a gaping hole in their skill set, but assume that they have 18 (or better) in their primary stat:

Priest (Moradin/Torag)1/Rogue 3 - Trapsmith/Tank
Priest (Pelor/Sarenrae) 4
Barbarian 4 - Superstitious
Bard 4 - Arcane Duelist
Oracle 4 - Blind, Wind Mystery (Invisibility and Electricity spark)

Everyone except the Blind Oracle has ranged weapons of some kind (in fact the Barbarian has a Mighty Composite Longbow +7 which she can only use while raging, which I'm letting slide..) but I plan to run the Dragon a bit stupid and arrogant (which Blues are known for) and drop in on the party after the first Breath Weapon attack (Take Boat, I found that entry now, thanks :) )

What they don't have is arcane artillery (there was going to be another player but she dropped out). The Barbarian can do downright scary amounts of damage though.

The only other encounter they will have before this is a Giant Frog which I totally expect to do absolutely no damage whatsoever.

The terrain is in a courtyard of an abandoned and ruined Moathouse.

(Also, that's a lot of replies in a short time! You guys rock :) )

(Spoilers for the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil follow. You have been warned.)

So I've just started GM'ing RttToEE, but I'm running it in the far superior Pathfinder system instead of D&D 3 or 3.5.

The first real encounter the party is supposed to have is against a Very Young Blue Dragon - at this stage the party is level 4.

Now in D&D, a VY Blue is CR 5; in Pathfinder it's CR 7. According to the Gamemastering section an encounter 3 above average party level is "Epic" - how likely is it that the Dragon could wipe the floor with the party (obviously not how I want to kick off the campaign!)

A couple of things to point out:

- I've told the players that RttToEE is a character killing module, and even more specifically I've told them the first combat is dangerous (without telling them what it is - there's a chance they find out if they talk to the right people first)
- All of my players are very experienced, although not so much in Pathfinder in particular, and are more than willing to cut their losses and run if it's the smart thing to do
- Looking at the Dragon's stats, it appears that although it's dangerous, it's not going to be able to wipe the entire party before taking too much damage and flying off (something the Blue Dragon entry specifically says that they do)
- However, I can't find anywhere (in the SRD pages anyway) where it says "every 1d4 rounds" for the Blue Dragon's breath weapon. Is it able to use it - as a standard action, obviously - every round?
- The fact that they do list CR +3 over the APL as "Epic" and not "OMG DON'T DO THIS EVERYONE WILL DIE IN A FIRE" suggests to me that it is, occasionally, OK. Is it?

I realise that the D&D CR's for Dragons were completely out of whack and CR 7 is probably more correct, but I don't want to reduce it to a Wyrmling (CR 5) and have the party fighting what is literally a Small dragon. "Yeah, it was the size of a large dog. It was a hard encounter though!"

What are people's thoughts?

Cheers
Viperion

OK I think I'll go with Cleave now, and maybe pick up Persuasive and Furious Focus a bit later on

Cheers all!

Thanks again for the replies :) I'm going to stick with 15(17)/12/13/10/8/16 for now.

However, now I'm stuck on a second feat choice! I've taken Power Attack, and my second one is going to be either:

Cleave
Combat Reflexes
Furious Focus
Persuasive
Step Up

Reasoning:

Cleave seems obviously good, if you're in the front line and have multiple foes attacking you (which is what I'm hoping for).

Combat Reflexes is so I can pick up Bodyguard and In Harm's Way later on - if I choose this my choices for the next few levels will be set already. Is this feat chain any good?

Furious Focus: It doesn't really seem to me to do a feats worth of "work" - negating a -1 or -2 penalty to attack in certain circumstances seems a bit weak.

Persuasive: Fits my concept. I have Bully as a trait, so Intimidate is a class skill for me, and I took a rank in both Intimidate and Diplomacy at 1st level.

Step Up: Just seems really neat. It's something I never had in D&D3.5, and it seems pretty useful in-game, but how often - in your experiences - do the mages suddenly "know" that you have the feat and so never even attempt the five-foot step before casting?

You could play him as a 'leaps before he looks' type of character with a strong conscience.

Yep, that's the one.

He's going to be big on the Crusading Right Hand of God type deal; but at the same time will be easily sucked in to go whereever he's pointed with the flimsiest of excuses ;) That should get me in plenty of trouble :D

Thanks all. I think I'll go with

Str 15 (--> 17)
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 16

4th level: Str --> 18
8th level: Con --> 14

And I'll grab the first Cha-raising item we find.

Low wisdom paladin - could be fun!

Thanks again for all the replies - although I ended up pretty much where I started I definitely had to think about it!

My build...

STR 14 (5 points)
DEX 12 (2 points)
CON 12 (2 points)
INT 10 (0 points)
WIS 10 (0 points)
CHA 14 (5 points)

I don't like dump stats, so none are included here. I left you a few options, using this build as a base - your +2 can go into either Strength of Charisma. I recommend Strength, but if you feel the pull of Charisma on you, go for it. Don't let us stop you from playing the character you want to play.

As it turns out, the GM has changed his mind and is allowing us 20 points. I like what you've done there actually, it's good where it needs to be but not weak anywhere. Now that I have an extra 6 points to spend I may go for my original build (the more things change....):

Str 15 (7)
Dex 12 (2)
Con 13 (3)
Int 8 (-2)
Wis 10 (0)
Cha 16 (10)

Putting the +2 human bonus in Strength. This gives me a very good Str and Cha, potential for Str 18 at 4th level, and that extra point of Con you mention. I wouldn't class 8 as a "dump" stat more than a roleplaying one - I could almost be convinced to have Int 10 Wis 8 instead, as long as my Cha is +3 or better.

Also, here is a really cool picture from an anime I like - she kinda looks like a two-handed Paladin, huh?

She's not wearing enough armour (surprise surprise :) )

Str base works much better then Cha base paladins most of the time.

If I really wanted to play a Str based character I'd just go for Fighter or Barbarian, wouldn't I?

OK well given that most folks seem to think the Str is more important (something I'd debate given Divine Grace, Smite, and Lay on Hands), maybe I could drop do something like this:

Str 16 (10 points)
Dex 12 (2)
Con 14 (5)
Int 7 (-4)
Wis 10 (0)
Cha 15 (7)

Add +2 to Strength from race, making 18, and then raise Cha to 16 at 4th? I am NOT a fan of Int 7, although mechanically it's identical to 8 or 9 for skill points and only one worse for the few Int skills I'll be using.

In a big(ish) party, I'm hoping there'll be a spread of skills such that the big dumb pretty guy in front won't be called on too often to know stuff ;)

EDIT: Just heard from the GM and it's 15 point, not 20... back to the drawing board...

What else does the party have? Knowing if they'll be depending on you to eat melee damage would help determine how much you care about Constitution.

We're not sure yet (character creation is in a couple of days) but it looks like we'll have one other dedicated front-line fighter, a couple of sneaky rogue types, and one each of divine and arcane casters of some variety (6 PC's)

@Terok: Cha 14 is awfully low for a Paladin, especially if I'm also dropping Wis down below 10. Why do you suggest Int 10? It seems to me that there is very little reason to have even an average intelligence - even with 1 skill point per level, +1 for being human, +1 for favoured class buff (I don't see any real reason to take +1hp, given d10 hit dice and a Con bonus and Lay on Hands) that's 3 skill points per level which should be any amount.

Interesting idea; I hadn't really considered a mounted Paladin as I like to get up close and personal :) The 12 Dex is so if (when ;) ) I get full plate I'll still get my +1 dex bonus, plus as a Paladin without a shield I need all the help I can get.

Hi all, first post and stuff :)

We're starting the Kingmaker campaign shortly and I've been fiddling around with point-buys and don't know if I'm missing something or not. I don't know anything (pretty much) about Kingmaker so no spoilers please or "you'll need <Stat X> when you run into...."

I'll be playing a Human Paladin, using a 2-handed weapon. I've got two slightly different builds made for 20 point, and one for 15. Comments and critiques welcome!

20 Point, version 1:
Str 15
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 16 (+2 for race = 18)

20 Point, version 2:
Str 14
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 16 (+2 for race = 18)

The only difference between these is +/- 1 Str and Con. In version one I can up my Str to 16 at level 4, in version two I have the +2 hp/level for 14 Con immediately instead of waiting for level 8. What your thoughts?

15 Point:
Str 14
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 15 (+2 for race = 17)

I *think* I can see one thing I could change, but want to see if you fine folks here find it.

I've played a LOT of D&D 3.5, but have never played Pathfinder before so not sure what's different/the same

Cheers all
Viperion