Lockeed M'nere's page

Clerics are amazing and domains are their biggest differentiating choice. Most tables require a god to be worshiped which limits domain choices. This is where the separatist shines because you can worship the RP god you want while also having that one other domain you want.

Most people scoff at channeling focused clerics but take a look at all the channeling feats from inner sea gods and also the variation channeling in adanced playera guide. In particular fateful channel, beacon of hope, and liberation. These 3 w/ quick channel and selective channel make your movement action channel better than other players whole turns. And then you get a spell. Problem is Raw no gods have Graves good and freedom. But wait your a seperstist. You can worship a god with two of these let's say desna....and then you add death domain and boom your god now qualifies ;)

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fateful-channel
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/beacon-of-hope
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/liberation-channel

For domains pick luck and death. Have some fun down the line worshiping a good god while also animating dead using magic she grants you....

The roleplay aspects are fantastic. Be the test run for a gods mid life crisis change in domains/focus. Argue with other priests. Convert npcs in your game to your version of worship for your god. Have a holy war with another faction. Change the nature of your god by having the majority of their followers belief as you do granting them new domains. This cleric cares mostly about wis and cha and buffs the absolute motherland out of the party. Early levels luck domain ability to let your buddies role 2x taking beter. Once you hit 5th level and you can start taking the channeling feats everyone will love you. Also take the luck varient channel to add +x luck bonuses to allies when channeling in exchange for 1/2 the healing.

Doing basically this in a highly modified kingmaker game atm. Being a buffer who the party will literally die to protect is awesome ;)

I know this is a slightly old thread but I'd like to chime in.

Currently playing Wotr. 8 sorceror / 2 Archmage. Mythic Heroism was one of the first things I chose to get. I use it on myself and the party paladin. It's really really good.

That being said..... bestow grace (wand) has been betrer for saves and a combination of orc bloodline touch of rage w/ sorcorous Robes of arcane heritage and bloodline mythic power gives me a +8 attack/damage/ will saves buff to put on the barbarian and inquisitor. They have opportunistic gambler so It lasts 1d4+1 rounds. I can apply it as I cast another buff with sorcerers robes. The barbs courageous raging sword adds +2 more.
+10 morale atrack damage will saves bonus at level 8. They miss on ones. The dm has us fighting multiple things 1.5-2x our CR with max hp or doublr max hp. They still last 1-3 rounds tops. Seriously ....stop complaining about heroism And acdept that mythic campaigns have silly broken stuff all over. That is all ;)

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Final party created was: ranged paladin, a melee bloodrager, a ranged inquisitor, a melee/caster druid, and I'm the blaster sorcerer.
We start playing Wednesday :)

Ok. So far the party has a ranged paladin and a melee inquisitor. Another player is deciding between a melee paladin or a ranged inquisitor. 4th player undecided. So I'll take any melee / ranged builds / anything with divine magic off my choices.

Debating between:

NG female kitsune sorceror with fey bloodline reporting in to cause problems. ENCHANT(COMPULSION) focused and will also be utility and buffing. Arcane eldritch heritage and grab cacophonous call.open to other bloodlines for crossblooded. Think Arcane is better for heritage if I take mythic heritage.

CN male human crossblooded sorceror of orc/Draconic bloodline lobbing an as yet to be chosen element in all directions.
Spell focus evocation and spell specialization burning hands For 3d4+6 damage at level 1. Arcane eldritch heritage at ~7th level. Think Arcane is better for heritage.

CG male half elf Synthesist who despises summoned creatures and who will be a tanky caster who buffs party and SOS/SOD on enemies. Orc or more likely Arcane heritage.

Hi all,

I would like to ask for help figuring out some fun character builds/concepts that meet certain conditions and are fun to play at level 1-10 as opposed to optimized for 15-20.

3-5 friends and myself are in the planning stages for the first book of the wrath of the rightous campaign. I don't know what other people are playing yet so I want to have a few options to fill the party holes.

I have a little meta-game knowledge of the campaign that I am allowed to use for character creation and would like the character to fit most of the following conditions.

*High CHA/social skills/Mass Combat leadership ability: I know there is alot of npc interaction and some chances to shine as a mass combat leader. Profession(soldier) skills etc (easy to do with a headband of int)

*Strong Mythic Synergy: I would like the character to be something that is made around the interaction of mythic tiers that become available at the end of book 1 ~ level 6 I believe. Mythic eldritch heritage is boss, and I like eldritch heritage in general so inclusions of that in builds is preferred. Feel free to point out other focuses that get much stronger with their mythic feats/abilities.

*Downtime System/Crafting options: our group tends to have some extra focus on these types of options during campaigns so I would really like to have some ability in these.

*Combat ability vs demons/evil: This is probably the #1 focus of whatever the build is. Our Dm likes to optimize monsters and boost CR's. Max hp demons with better feat selections, class levels, and choice magic gear will be aplenty I imagine.

Classes I am considering:
***Note if no one else is playing a paladin I will be playing a Paladin. If someone plays a ranged paladin I might still play a melee paladin. So a melee Paladin build is appreciated.

****Note if there is a paladin in the group and I am allowed to play a summoner I will most likely be playing a summoner. If synthesist is allowed.. I will be playing that. If its not and master summoner is allowed I will most likely be playing that. I don't need/want help with a summoner build, I have several of those already.

Paladin: melee w/ Orc bloodline using eldritch heritage maybe? I'm very familiar with anti-paladin builds but not very much with paladins. Any build would be highly appreciated.

Sorcerer: not sure what would be best against demons. Blasters run into the immune electricity/poison and resists vs cold/fire/acid issues. Maybe a crossblooded Fey/Arcane enchanter type? Or a sonic/force damage focused type. (not alot of sonic spells i can think of so help with that would be appreciated, and I believe many of those are Bard only spells). spell focus, elemental focus can stack up nicely.

Oracle: buffing/disable focused, maybe with Aasimar Oracle boost for an animal companion or other key revelation. eldritch for arcane heritage.

Bloodrager: w/ Orc bloodline using eldritch heritage. crossblooded w/ primal and some choice barbarian rage powers.

Cleric: using channel / selective channel maybe? glory/etc domains. Haven't really looked much at clerics to be honest but I think they would be strong and fun if built correctly.

I'm open to Zen archer, alchemist builds (vivisectionist or thrower w/ force damage bombs), inquisitor builds (ranged or melee w/ teamwork) but those don't really really fit the cha/social/mass combat. That being said if someone else takes the Cha roles then I will need to fill in with something else.

And if anyone can think of anything I've missed/ not thought about I would appreciate a 'bonk' on the head and a comment / question / concern / criticism / or critique. :)

Thank you all in advance

I have always hated stirges. One particularly 'fun' campaign basically ended on account of a small group of stirges. We were a well made 5th level party and got ambushed. It wouldn't have been too bad, myself or the wizard were planning to AOE everyone to kill them and then I could have healed us. Except one triple 20'd my undead lord cleric and unleashed my 4 burning/bloody hell hound skeletons On the party Before either of us got a turn. The paladin smited one of the skeletons.....they in turn ate him. The bard fled the fight but was chased down also also eaten. The Wizard reversed his plan to Fireball and instead shadow stepped away. My xx number of burning bloody hobgoblin skeletons wiped the village I had left them to protect also....... so the wizard went to another town....found a Tavern.....and 3 new heroes joined hiM on his quest to go loot 3 dead level 5 characters bodies ;)

Also well made npc enemies with class levels make terrifying opponents for their CR. Some of that is for how most monsters add 1/2 class levels to cr even if it adds something crazy.

Ex. Succubus Antipaladin 2. Succubus sorcerer 1+. Juju zombie xx anything.....

Also any enemy using a spellstoring weapon and true strike.

Hi all, long time reader first time poster hoping to contribute a little meaningful content.

I'be been playing pathfinder for ~3-4 years now. Before that 3.5. Before that 3.0. OWOD NWOD in between. I tend to play and DM using optimized characters that are also heavily roleplayed in games where almost everyone is optimized to a similar level. I have seen summoners used/Dm'd for summoners/played as summoners in both Skulls and Shackles, Kingmaker, and a house campaign in pathfinder. Master summoner in Pathfinder trivialized the written encounters by itself at early levels 1-5 and was asked to change characters by the DM. My Synthesist did the same in Skulls and Shackles at early levels 1-5 and was asked to change by a different DM. I think alot of that is systemic in official modules/campaigns where the CR encounters are terribly weak and quite solable by a 1 optimized character to begin with. Other classes can do that as well but require MUCH more optimization whereas non-omptized summoners are routinely that strong and 'break' alot of the party vs enemy encounter norms. Tanky melee arcane casters. Action economy >>>>> etc.

I would like to reference Rogar Stonebow's comment (or the first part anyway)about players and DM's. "The problem with summoners isn't the summoner. The problem is and will always be the player and/or the gm." All characters have some level of complexity for both Dm's and Players and summoners are among the most complicated or at least the most cluttered with pages for eidelons and summons.

1) AS an inexperienced DM you will probably have a hard time balancing the story for summoners.

2) As an inexperienced player you will have a hard time not slowing down the game and overshadowing other inexperienced (non optimized) players as a summoner. These become become more pronounced with synthesists and Master summoners.

I think we can all somewhat agree on those two points?

Other than that most of the discussion has been on builds and is basically a tier 1 vs tier 2 for summoners and then comparing them vs tier-martial characters or tier-hybrid characters which are not remotely close to tier 1-2 and will therefore come up short nearly always. I think arguments for summoners can be made for tier 1 or tier 2 and they are not any lower even if badly built.

My group of players in my housebrew campaign all voted no on anyone playing a summoner due to my house-rule that any class/feat/spell/build used by a player was open for me to use a bad guy and out of every other terrible awful option (I've thrown AM barbs at them, crazy spell perfection casters, Zen Archers with Mountain Shot, etc) they really only feared archetype summoners. These are almost all Min-Max level optimizers btw... used to fighting CR's 3-8 higher than the party on average.....and the fact that the only class that really worries them is a summoner speaks volumes.

I would like to point out some builds that surpass - compare with - etc with synthesists or master summoners at different levels and also some ridiculous summoner ones.Take a look and try building yourself for fun/learning :)

level 5 undead lord cleric with animate dead, desecrate, undead mastery and raising multiple persistent 5-10HD burning, bloody minions that are better than the eidelon/summons, healed by channel, and don't die permanently (without positive energy which is rare as bad guys). Much 'stronger' and solo oriented. Fall off at higher levels but ridiculous 3-9.

Level 5 version of any of the above. Eldritch Heritage(orc) or others, spell perfection, etc all are crazy strong.

Level old 17 synthesist/1monk/2 palladin/antipaladin. w/ eldritch heritage ORC and a heritage/sorcerors robes + gambler trait to apply the +10 attack/damage/will save morale bonus.
-cha to saves, cha to attack, wis to AC and cmd. Evolutions to get immunity to all 5 elements and SR 28. Probably the Tankiest thing you can make and you can optimize to 60-80AC and 30-40 saves +evasion(ring) and +55 or more attack with pounce. Also quickened Persistent Dominate Monsters w/ rods or spell perfection.

Level 20 crossblooded sorceror. Orc/dragon bloodlines w/ eldritch arcane + items. Spell perfection chain lightning for dazing/persistent/quickened Dc 40 chain lightnings for ~240 damage.

Level 20 AM barbarian: only true martial that comparable to full casters in pathfinder.

Level 20 crossblooded BloodRager w/ 2 of 3 Desitined/ARcane/Abyssal bloodines w/ eldritch Orc, couragous weapon, come at me + beastial rage powers, maybe superstition/ghost rager. AM barbarian on crack + buffs.

Any 20 wizard...but since were on a summoner page. Level 20 conjurer, w/ abyssal heritage + superior summons + spell perfection summon monster 9 to get (4) summon XI Demons per summon. Or my favorite BBEG use of 1d4+4 Vrocks * (5) all 9th level spell slots all dancing away for 20d6 lighting all over a city :)

If you want my versions of full builds message me, please don't argue correct here. I promise their all legal (raw anyway) and pulled from other optimization pages.

Other relevant notes: At higher levels (11-20) even summons IX's eventually become fairly irrelevant other than as cannon fodder, where their attacks/DC's are not high enough to do much vs the players and the players can 1-2 shot them or even groups of them.

Final Request: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE leave out leadership and simulacrum from discussion on power level. They are their own separate broken discussions and honestly should be handled by the GM in whatever manner they chose to not break the game and honestly please read the spell (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD) which says that the DM gets o decide what is appropriate...

(New here and first post) First I'm just going to post all the relevant stuff from the site so its here for reference. Then I'm going to ask my specific questions at the bottom.

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The second type of bond allows an antipaladin to gain the service of a fiendish servant. This functions as summon monster III, except the duration is permanent and the antipaladin can only gain the service of a single creature and that creature must either have the chaotic and evil subtypes or it must be a fiendish animal. Once selected, the choice is set, but it may be changed whenever the antipaladin gains a level. Upon reaching 7th level, and every two levels thereafter, the level of the summon monster spell increases by one, to a maximum of summon monster IX at 17th level.

Once per day, as a full-round action, an antipaladin may magically call his servant to his side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the antipaladin's level. The servant immediately appears adjacent to the antipaladin. An antipaladin can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level.

At 11th level, the servant gains the advanced template (see the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary). At 15th level, an antipaladin's servant gains spell resistance equal to the antipaladin's level + 11.
Should the antipaladin's fiendish servant die or be banished, the antipaladin may not summon another servant for 30 days or until he gains an antipaladin level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the antipaladin takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.

Augment Summoning
Your summoned creatures are more powerful and robust.
Prerequisite: Spell Focus (conjuration).
Benefit: Each creature you conjure with any summon spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution for the duration of the spell that summoned it.

Superior Summoning
You can summon more creatures.
Prerequisites: Augment Summoning, caster level 3rd.
Benefit: Each time you cast a summoning spell that conjures more than one creature, add one to the total number of creatures summoned.

Abyssal Bloodline
Generations ago, a demon spread its filth into your heritage. While it does not manifest in all of your kin, for you it is particularly strong. You might sometimes have urges to chaos or evil, but your destiny (and alignment) is up to you.

Strength of the Abyss (Ex): At 9th level, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to your Strength. This bonus increases to +4 at 13th level, and to +6 at 17th level.

Added Summonings (Su): At 15th level, whenever you summon a creature with the demon subtype or the fiendish template using a summon monster spell, you summon one additional creature of the same kind.

Eldritch Heritage
You are descended from a long line of sorcerers, and some portion of their power flows in your veins.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Skill Focus with the class skill of bloodline selected for this feat (see below), character level 3rd.
Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

Improved Eldritch Heritage
The power of your discovered bloodline continues to grow.
Prerequisites: Cha 15, Eldritch Heritage, character level 11th.
Benefit: You gain either the 3rd-level or the 9th-level power (your choice) of the bloodline you selected with the Eldritch Heritage feat. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.
Special: You may select this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you select the feat, it applies to a different bloodline power for that bloodline available at sorcerer level 3 or 9.

Greater Eldritch Heritage
Your discovered bloodline power reaches its zenith.
Prerequisites: Cha 17, Eldritch Heritage, Improved Eldritch Heritage, character level 17th.
Benefit: You gain an additional power from the bloodline you selected with the Eldritch Heritage feat. You gain a 15th-level (or lower) sorcerer bloodline power that you do not already have. For purposes of using that power, treat your character level as your sorcerer level for all your sorcerer bloodline powers granted by this feat, Eldritch Heritage, and Improved Eldritch Heritage.

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So as you might be able to guess I'm trying to build an Anti-paladin with a Fiendish Boon servant.

What I want to know is the interaction of the Abyssal bloodline level 15 power added summoning, that you get through greater eldritch heritage with the Fiendish Boon Servant as well as the feats augment summoning and superior summoning.

In the text of the servant explanation it says that "This functions as summon monster III, except the duration is permanent and the antipaladin can only gain the service of a single creature and that creature must either have the chaotic and evil subtypes or it must be a fiendish animal." I take this to mean that the ability by itself can only summon one creature and cant be used to summon multiple creatures of lower levels as part of the base ability. Fiendish boon meets the req for added summoning, you HAVE to have a demon or fiendish creature, so when you summon up your servant it adds another one.

Everything I have read says that fiendish boon works with augment summoning...so by the same reasoning I would think that superior summoning would work as well assuming that you have multiple summons.

So assuming those work as it seems they should RAW if not RAI .... at level 17 as an antipaladin I should be able to have 3 nalfeshnee with +4 all stats(augmented), +4 str/con in addition to that, and spell resistance 28 (up to 31 at 20th) permanently running around with my character giving him UNHOLY AURA, umlimited greater dispell magic, and FEEBLEMIND on arcane spell-casters with a DC of 32(taking into account aura debuffs for -6, -4 vs spellcasters, +2 from new stats.

So does this work? If not is there a way to make it work?

(I'm 100% sure that with spell perfection,same feats + bloodlines, on a conjurer I can get almost the same thing but with 4 of them but i'd rather play as an antipaldin!!)