Ully's page

Wow! I can't believe it has been a year since I opened this thread.

I just wanted to follow up and say that I decided to take the campaign all the way through to the end. Though we've only averaged one Shackled City session a month since this thread began, everyone is just so into their characters and the story—especially the Smoking Eye / Occipitus angle—that I think a climactic Adimarchus battle will cap things off nicely. I'm going to play up the plot twist ("There's something else we didn't know about that was driving the Cagewrights' motivations?!?!) to really drive them towards the finale.

Watch for my, "Whew!" post when it's all over. Hopefully, it won't take us another year. ;-)

Thanks, Greystaff. Any thoughts on how the Smoking Eye template can be involved?

Greetings,

I am in need of suggestions for alternate story endings for my Shackled City campaign.

I originally decided to run the Shackled City as an experiment to see how well a 3.5e campaign would go with all official WotC sources allowed, all the way to 20th level. (The answer, in my case, is: I am ready to blow my brains out over how broken and frustrating the all-splat-books-allowed 3.5e rules are. YMMV. I blame myself.) That was nearly three-and-a-half years ago, and I just can't dedicate another year or more to this campaign.

The players, who have all min-maxed their characters to some degree, are hugely invested in both the storyline and their PCs. They've just completed Chapter 8, "Lords of Oblivion," without any difficulty, and I'd like to find an acceptable solution to bring the story to a close in 8-10 more four-hour sessions. (That's for their benefit, of course. I'd rather just kill them all next session and be done with it. ;-)) I’ve not made any mods to the campaign, except for running Delvesdeep’s Demonskar Ball way back when.

My entire group enjoys combat, but a couple of players really steal the show during the social encounters, so I’m thinking of breezing through Chapter 9’s meeting of nobles and clergy that will result in my player who has been gunning for the position of Lord Mayor being so appointed. I’ll narrate most of the rescue/evacuation stuff in “Foundation of Flame” to save time. I definitely want to run the Hookface battle, since that seems like a fun one, and I love the concept of demodands plummeting from the sky. I might even combine the two. I’d like to get through Chapter 9 in no more than two sessions.

After that, I’m at a bit of a loss for how to handle things. Chapter 10, “Thirteen Cages,” seems little more than a dungeon crawl with unmemorable encounters, though there’s a Holy Avenger sword to be found that my paladin player has been lusting for, and the Moltenwing encounter, with its role-play and deadly combat opportunities, looks fun. I know the party would love one more encounter with Vhalantru, which comes in Chapter 12, “Asylum,” where there’s also the opportunity to close the loop with Nidrama. There’s also a special hatred in the party for Embril Aloustinai, and there has been too much story involving the spell weavers to pass up including one towards the end.

Not a single one of my players took the Dream Haunted trait, so I’ve not played up Adimarchus’ madness encroaching on the material plane through dreams. Really, Adimarchus is known only as the once previous ruler of Occipitus. I’m not sure how important a direct encounter with him is to the endgame for my group.

Anyway, I’ve gone on for a bit longer than I wanted. Hopefully, this info will help spark some ideas in the community of how I can best wrap things up. Any advice or comments will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

All the best,
Ully

I'm allowing all the books in my game, which has been running for 2.75. yrs, and sure, there are some pretty "broken" things for min/maxers to exploit. The Book of Exalted Deeds and the Spell Compendium seem to have been the most offensive in my game. I have a Radiant Servant of Pelor cleric with a light spell that goes for days and delivers ongoing 2d6 damage to evil outsiders within 120'. I have a diviner that can spontaneously cast any divination spell. I have a paladin with a +[ridiculous] grapple modifier and a +[insane] amount of grapple damage. The other three PCs are just as potent, each in their own way.

But all of that is easy to adjust for. We've still had some PC deaths, and there have been times where they've had to regroup and try different tactics. I can adjust to all of the above by fudging hit points or other values if necessary. I can throw in a few more creatures, or I can change them out entirely.

My concern would be less with allowing splatbooks and more with balance within the party. It's never fun for the other players when one or two PCs consistently outshine everyone elses', and that's something that the DM can't really adjust for.

The PHB has plenty of "broken" spells, so even if you restrict your players to core-only PCs, there will still be times where your encounters are over before the baddies even get to act. So whatever you decide to allow, make sure your most experienced min-maxers help the other players boost the effectiveness of their characters, so that everyone has fun.

I hadn't DMed an RPG for more than a decade when I decided to pick up and run the Shackled City. If I was inexperienced then, I'm certainly not now, 2.5 years into the campaign and only halfway through Chapter 7.

I'll tell you, I was concerned with my level of expertise beforehand, and I spent a lot of time reading blogs and listening to podcasts dedicated to improving one's level of game master mastery. I also spent a lot of time reading through these boards and checking out the resources on TheRPGenius.com. There's no question that doing all of these things helped.

My job was difficult, because, like Aotrscommander's, my players are almost all min-max masters, and I happened to have seven of them, instead of the recommended six. My players were also allowed access to all 3.5-compatible Wizards publications, which put them slightly above the AP's power curve. They've mostly overcome challenges with ease, even when beefed up, though there have been surprise challenges (like the choker in Jzadirune).

Still, I think I've done okay. My players are certainly enjoying themselves, their characters, and the story (which I've done my best to flesh out with help from some amazing Shackled City DMs who have shared their experiences on this board). They lament when we can't play weekly.

Just like the players begin at level 1, so can the DM. I've made mistakes, to be sure, but I never let them interrupt the fun or my being fair. That's the best advice I can give.

One note on XP: I've assigned XP by the book the whole way through, only giving out story XP awards where noted in the text, and my players are exactly where they are supposed to be. If you have zero PC deaths, or lots of them, then that will affect the XP balance over time.

Oh, and if you're interested in a MapTool campaign file with a useful map for part 2 of the test, including the path in the hidden layer, just let me know. It's 600' across! MapTool sure is a savior for that kind of scale.

Ully

I created a few that I've not had time to upload to RPGenius...

Occipitus Furrow
Occipitus Plain
Ossaic Forest
Ulcerous Plain

I'm definitely a Photoshop novice, but they could be useful. I hope they are.

Ully

At the end of Demonskar Legacy, Nabthatoron is portrayed as being satisfied with killing Alek Tercival, thereby ensuring (or so he thinks) the conflict between Cauldron and Redgorge. As written, he only bothers with the PCs if they're able to hurt him, and then only long enough to get them out of the way. Otherwise, he has no interest in them.

Um...hello? One of the PCs at this point is likely brandishing Alakast, the very weapon carried into battle against against Nabthatoron and his armies, the very weapon that helped Surabar Spellmason defeat the demon, a defeat that resulted in Nabthatoron being banished to the material plane, where he has been in exile for nearly 700 years! And he's just supposed to ignore the PCs???

I think that Nabthatoron would very much want to know where/how the PCs came by Alakast, and he'd probably want to sunder it as well (though my version of Alakast will be far more difficult to damage than a normal magical quarterstaff).

Anyone else feel this way?

I agree that the standard Glabzeru is far too tough for a party of 9th level characters.

I haven't made the switch to 4e for this campaign, and I doubt that I will. As fun as 4e is, my players are really tied to their characters after 18+ months developing them, and the class options just aren't there yet. It is possible that we will change to the Pathfinder rules.

However, I have been giving some thought to how I would convert the Shackled City to 4e, just in case my players change their minds. One of the first things I realized was that a 4e Shackled City would have to take the PCs from 1st level all the way to 30th over the course of the adventure path. Otherwise, we'd end up with PCs not powerful enough to battle a demon prince at the end.

So, Blakey, you might want to add 50% to the book's recommended average party level for each chapter.

Also, plan ahead for how your players will find the means to teleport, plane shift, etc., so they can do all the things that will be expected of them at various points in the story. After all, 4e ritual magic is (today, at least) quite limited when compared to the spells available in 3.5e.

And just for a "me, too," my players are also in the Demonskar Legacy, where they have just defeated the hags. The battle with the giants was epic, with the party paladin getting killed by the smithy, only to be raised immediately with some help from the party's first castings of lesser planar ally and raise dead. Was the most fun we've had so far in the AP.

A second character death has befallen my group. It happened last Thursday, during one of the all-day marathon sessions that we try to hold once every year or so.

The session culminated in an epic battle as the PCs stormed Vaprak's Voice. The alarm was raised, and the PCs managed to gain entry through the portcullis while the giants and ettins were moving into their defensive positions. When a curious pixie PC who managed to open the door to the forge during the battle was followed one round later by a confused ettin who fled to the forge and attacked the rather large smithy, the big guy just had to come investigate...

It was the paladin-monk of Heironeous who fell. The heroes had vanquished the giants and ettins and were battling the smithy. The enlarged paladin had given chase to the wounded, retreating smithy and failed her grapple check, which left her in a position unfortunate enough to receive a full volley from the brute's hammer. The remaining PCs took the big guy out two rounds later, but there was nothing they could do to save their friend.

I've received some awesome emails from my players, describing how their characters reacted to their comrade falling in battle, including the cleric of Pelor casting lesser planar ally and asking for Nidrama by name.

Perhaps the most haunting mention of the paladin's death was in the session notes, which are meticulously taken every time we meet by the player of the paladin. The entry in the notes reads simply: "The giant turns around and kills her with three ugly blows."

It was a spectacular session, and I am now planning how to respond to the lesser planar ally spell, which, though it isn't powerful enough to call Nidrama, will accomplish something.

I just wanted to offer some comments on the unhallow/magic circle against good ruling. I am not being critical; I hope to offer some suggestions that will help other DMs who find themselves in a similar position.

Ully wrote:

FWIW, it's only good-aligned summoned creatures that must make a Will save to enter an area with an active unhallow or magic circle against good spell.

Yes yes I know this, I became suspicious after the first run in and did some research and discovered this typo and/or author error

however, at this point the party had already wiped once because of it and I didn't think it would be wise to suddenly change the room's capabilities and draw wide spread complaints from the players

(our house rule, to prevent massive in game backtracking and wasted time in game, is to never go back and "Redo" combats and events that take place no matter the reason. A go-with-the-flow style of rules management you might say)

I agree that playing an encounter over again is not always the best course of action when a misunderstanding of the rules is discovered, especially if the PCs have continued on a ways through the story or additional encounters. Still, a TPK is a fairly extreme experience, and it provides an opportunity to revisit the issue.

now our rules lawyer quickly noticed the discrepancy and I tried to have him quickly silenced but he persisted

This should serve as a good indicator that at least one player was unhappy with the outcome, and perhaps a group discussion was warranted.

and honestly, tho fairly powerful and prohibitive in its printed incarnation - I do not see it as being an insurmountable obstacle for 7th level PCs

However, tonight their newly created party after the TPK came back and once again they battered their heads blindly against the temple sanctum again

So the augmented unhallow caused the same outcome as the first time around, but this time after the players put time and effort into creating a new party. The magical effect from the statue was indeed an insurmountable obstacle for the group...

Once again they were soundly defeated and this time tried to run much earlier than last time and this time they only lost two - the Rogue and Druid

but for my players this was the last straw, they gave up and decided to quit this campaign

Yes, I'd probably feel the same way. As DMs' we must put ourselves in our players shoes to reassess the fun-level of the game from their perspective.

In your case, Cohlrox, you were presented with a perfect opportunity to try the encounter differently the second time around. I certainly would have given my players the opportunity (though with their original characters, since the TPK was due to the DM's misinterpretation of the rules) to take another shot at the shrine room encounter. Doing so gives the DM the opportunity to make it clear that the game is about the players having fun.

so tomorrow we begin the Newest pathfinder adventure path! Second Darkness!!!

did anyone else feel that the Shackled City AP was wildly broken in encounter strengths at many different points?

Yes, I know a good DM will adjust on the fly as needed for the situation - but im a particularly cruel and uncaring DM who rolls all dice openly and lets them fall where they may... MUHAHAHAHA

"oh, you only had 5 hps left? yeah, that critical hit from Kazmojen's axe just split you in two and showered your nearby companions in your blood and gore. Here's a brand new character sheet, get to it."

While that's funny, and I'm sure you're kidding a bit, I think a DM can roll dice in the open and be a caring DM at the same time. I've played in games where the players couldn't affect the outcome of events, where the game was all about this beautiful creation (or adopted creation) of the DM, and where house rules impacted the fun. None of those amounted to good experiences, and I eventually came to learn that it wasn't the adventure path we had chosen to play, it was the DM's lack of player focus that was causing the problem.

That's why, when I decided to don the DM's hat after nearly 20 years of not DMing, I'd do everything I could to become the best DM I could be. That requires ongoing evaluation of my performance, strengths, weaknesses, etc., and then seeking to improve upon the areas where I can do better, while doing more of what I do well.

Part of my ongoing self-improvement program is reading the experiences of other DMs who blog or post helpful nuggets of wisdom in public forums. One of the most concise pieces I've read about being a better DM was Jeff Rients' How to Awesome-Up Your Players article on Jeff's Gameblog. One of the subheadings in the post really sums up the whole thing about being a DM: "Your NPCs suck and they are all going to die."

I think that's advice that every DM should keep in mind to help remember that role-playing should be about the players and their characters, not the rules or the printed word of a published adventure. If it's not fun, it's up to the DM to fix it.

<steps off soapbox>

I apologize if my reply comes off as overly critical. I believe strongly that it's important for us, as DMs, to continually ask ourselves how we can be better and then do what it takes. Handing a group of players two painful defeats in a row through no fault of their own just doesn't make for a fun game. If your players are giving you another opportunity to make things fun with a new adventure path, do your best for them and question yourself when they're not enjoying the game, for whatever reason.

I hope this post is helpful in some way.

My party avoided the grell's room entirely. I think it was the only room in the Jzadirune that they didn't explore.

Our party almost had a TPK with the grell. We were second level, and it came down to the wizard taking an AoO to fire his crossbow and kill it.

Sounds like that was a lucky break, since one can't typically make an AoO with a ranged weapon...

- party TPK at the shrine to Blipdoolploop (largely due to the fact that most of the party couldn't enter the shrine because of the broken unhallow DC17 Will save to enter, very bad paizo very bad!)

FWIW, it's only good-aligned summoned creatures that must make a Will save to enter an area with an active unhallow or magic circle against good spell.

Did I say the posting rate had slowed of late? Thank you, one and all, for allowing me to say that I stand corrected. ;-)

nib, to your point:

All hails to Delvesdeep's alternative ending, but I think, it should be possible to also have a great plot thickening around the cagewrights as they are written, it just needs some ideas to connect them at opportune moments to the party and have the minor bosses (Orbius, Last Laugh) stay just the speed bump, they were intended to be instead of promoting them to one of the thirteen.

If you are thinking along those lines, keep the juices flowing and we'll create a memorable archive of 3rd party info for other SCAPpers to come ...

That is exactly what I've been thinking. I love Delvesdeep's mods (just ran his outstanding Demonskar Ball event to great success), but I, too, have been thinking about keeping the original thirteen and finding ways to build up the less visible antagonists. I just need time to start putting thoughts down where I can organize and flesh them out. Once I do, I'll most definitely share them here, and then the minds in this community will improve upon them for all our benefit.

The Shackled City adventure path was a breakthrough product, and I'm overjoyed that so many here are still very much wrapped up in it.

Greetings all,

Maybe it's just the time of year (finals, graduations, etc.), but it seems to me that this board has been less busy of late. One other possibility is that the impending release of 4e has folks either (a) slowing down their current Shackled City campaign to take a look at 4e and maybe play an introductory adventure, or (b) shelving their Shackled City game and moving to 4e entirely.

Personally, I've got the 4e books on order, but my players and I plan to continue with our Shackled City campaign (currently in Bhal-Hamatugn) and see it through. We're invested in the story and the characters. So we are happily carrying on. We may try out some of the Pathfinder RPG rules or even switch over entirely, since we probably have two years still to play, but we won't be trying any sort of crazy 4e conversion.

What about you? What's the plan for your Shackled City campaign?

I may have been a little harsh in my original post. I was just a bit shocked at how cheap Keep on the Shadowfell feels compared to the Pathfinder books.

Now that I've had a chance to read through some of the adventure booklet, I really like the way the encounters are presented. While I haven't run it yet, the organization of the encounters looks to be easy on the DM.

Regarding electronic maps, I am currently running the Shackled City for my regular group, and I use scans of the maps in MapTool, a really nice (and free) virtual tabletop Java application (so it works on Macs, Windows PCs, Linux, etc.). We use anywhere from one laptop per side of the table to one per person, and it has completely replaced our use of maps and minis. That said, I'll definitely be pulling out the minis for Keep on the Shadowfell.

I received my copy of Wizards' Keep on the Shadowfell adventure, the introductory 4th Edition adventure that includes pregenerated characters and quick-start rules for the new system. In my opinion, its production value, in a word, sucks.

For a list price of $30, you get a full-color pocket folder that contains the adventure booklet and quick-start rules (both are old magazine-style, folded with staples) and three full-color, double-sided battle maps (only 1/3 of which are new maps). The pregenerated characters (sample) in the quick-start rules aren't even in character sheet format, though that's presumably to contain the stats and rules applicable to each within a two-page layout.

The whole thing feels really cheap. For example, the adventure and quick-start booklets don't have back covers; there's text on the back of each. The pregen characters are each represented with a sketch, but they aren't in color.

I bought this adventure to see what 4e is all about (I am currently running the Shackled City for my group). Mechanics-wise, some of the new rules look like an improvement, but at the same time it feels much more "video gamish" to me. My biggest disappointment, however, was receiving a package that I felt was so far below the quality standard Paizo has set with their Pathfinder line that it seemed like a rip-off in terms of money spent. Very disappointing, yet not at all surprising.

I'll be keeping my Pathfinder subscription and am really looking forward to the RPG. It's going to be a far better value (both in terms of fun and money) for my group than D&D 4e.

Now we just need the Paizo team to consider partnering with someone to develop software tools for character creation/bookkeeping... ;-)

-Ully

One thing you should know, the removal of Visual Basic from the new editions of Excel for Windows and Mac, (not that it meant much on the Mac no version newer than 4.04 was ever stable on the Mac side) pretty much puts the stake through the heart of Heroforge.

Actually, it's only the new Mac Excel 2008 release that had VBA support removed; it's going strong in the Windows version. Additionally, Microsoft announced that VBA would return to the Mac in the next release, though that's more than likely at least a year away.

Regardless, it's moot, as the HeroForge team have announced the upcoming version for 4e will not require a third-party application.

Unfortunately, while there is a build that supports the first Pathfinder Adventure Path (with feats and such), I don't think that they'll be doing anything for the actual Pathfinder RPG. I've started a Pathfinder RPG poll on the HeroForge site just to see what interest there is.

However I'm considering switching to using RPTools Init Tool instead as DMGenie is basically overkill for what I'm trying to achive (just a combat/initiative tracker) so I might move over soon.

Am in discussions with someone on the RPTools forum about this. If I get it up and running I'll post here (on a new thread) as an alternate option for online/computer gaming with SCAP.

I've been using InitTool for my SCAP game for a year (and MapTool for about six months). It has worked well. The only issues I have with the latest development release are:

• It requires Java 1.6, and the Mac's Java VM is still at 1.5, so I'm running it in VMware, which is a little processor intensive (virtualizing Windows and then the Windows Java VM).

• The new database and calculation features (e.g., InitTool uses Dex, armor, natural armor, size, etc. to calculate AC) are really cool, but that means you've got to enter all that stuff when you add a creature, or AC/etc. aren't calculated properly.

Unfortunately, I don't often have time to create encounter groups ahead of time, so I don't have cool save files with all the baddies already entered. I will strive to do this, and maybe we can share files. I intend to ask Erik Mona about this, since I'd also like to provide MapTool maps that I've already marked up with the topology tool for vision.

My group is currently dealing with the cryohydra in chapter four, so hopefully I can be of some help to you. I'll look for your posts over on the RPTools forum...

Ully wrote:

Well, my group finally experienced their first PC death...<snip>...from the cryohydra.

Funny, but that Cyrohydra was nearly a TPK for my group.

My group definitely still has that option, since the battle is far from over. For continuity's sake, I hope they don't go there.

Well, my group finally experienced their first PC death during last night's session. The ridiculously-optimized, mostly-broken chaos gnome chain-fighter was frozen solid by a second volley of breath attacks from the cryohydra.

That's one nasty creature, I'll tell ya. We had to end the session mid-combat, so it remains to be seen how the encounter turn out. The cryohydra has pulled back into the fissure, and the party is now effectively concerned for their own survival.

Thanks, Shimrath. Very kind of you.

I may yet edit one up, but if not, yours will be a big time saver.

Cheers!

Greetings,

Has anyone created a larger map for the Gotrrod encounter at Crazy Jared's Hut? I'd like something that provides a larger field of battle, and I thought I'd ask here before trying something myself with one of the digital mapping applications.

I've checked the RPGenius site already. Thanks in advance!

Ully

\I state that I am raging and charging down the stairs in an attempt to bash down the door. The DM looks at me for a moment, as though I had told him something completely nonsensical, and then shrugs as he declares, "You smash into the door and fall over dead." When he saw the incredulous look on my face, he made some comment about terminal velocity and the force of impact, then had the monstrously powerful NPC guide who'd been following us around true resurrect me. Classic.

Your DM definitely sucks. Hard.

Just offhand, using the rules that cover damage from falling (1d6 damage per 10 feet fallen) how many feet would your PC have needed to fall to take him/her to -10 HP? Heck, just assume 6 HP damage per 10 feet fallen to cover the max damage possible. How far would that have had to be?

It's good to see this thread getting non-fumble rules posts again. :-)

Critical hit and fumble rules are something that the group as a whole should agree on. If, as a participant, you're not happy with your group's house rules, then raise the issue and discuss it as a group. If it's not open for discussion because your DM is an it's-my-game-so-I-make-the-rules type, then that's why he or she sucks. News flash: The DM is just another participant; it's the group's game.

If your group's rules/methods/etc. aren't fun for you or other members of the group, consider bringing up the concept of a Social Contract. The idea is to set expectations for your game sessions by agreeing ahead of time on what exactly you're playing, how you'll be playing it, and what the group members' responsibilities are to each other at the game table. It's surprising how discussing what everyone wants from playing together can uncover expectations that aren't being met.

Finally, a suggestion for all DMs. The excellent 2d6 in a Random Direction podcast offered this recommendation:

Consider Yes. <--linkey

Simply put, if saying no to a player won't yield interesting results that ultimately prove exciting/worthwhile/fun for the players, then just say yes. Players hate being told no, so consider carefully when and why you're turning them down.

My $0.02 that's hopefully worth more to someone. ;-)

Just ran the Thifirane encounter. It was challenging, both for me and for my party; however, I had just adopted a new behind-the-screen stats system for myself, and it allowed me to keep track of all the characters' and NPCs' tactics and spells.

Gonturan: Do tell us about your new system! I'm always on the lookout for ways to improve my ability to maneuver through encounters confidently and efficiently as DM.

We've been playing this for almost a year now ( bi weekly) and just started chapter 8

Deaths so far.

Chapter 1 :6 deaths , 1 by interparty combat, 3 by acid pool, 1 by stone spike thing, 1 by skulk

--<snip>--

Chapter 8 : 1 death , 1 from Jil the Assassin.

Total PC deaths 42( Not counting the cohorts or the revivifies but only deaths that cause new characters or xp lost )

The discrepancy between some groups' kill ratios and and others' amazes me.

I've been having quite the opposite experience from Teemu (much like Robert Brambely above). My group has had zero character deaths, and we're three-quarters of the way through Flood Season. The choker in Jzadirune came close to claiming one life, and Skaven working with the harpoon spider came close to taking two. But other than those encounters, my group has had no problem keeping its collective head above water.

I have seven (yes, one too many) smart players with fairly optimized characters. Your group, if it still has six players plus cohorts and henchmen doesn't seem to be all that different from mine. Do you make things more difficult on the fly, like adding to monsters' and NPCs' hit points to make battles more dangerous and suspenseful? Or are your players just throwing their characters willy-nilly into the fray and laughing when one dies?

How are your players taking the deaths? Are you having difficulties keeping the story together due to new characters coming in so often (or are the same characters always being resurrected?)

I'd love to sit in on one or two of your group's sessions, that's for sure!

Ully

Ully, unlike most boards I have come across, on the Paizo boards I think it is only possible to edit a post for a short amount of time after you post it before it is locked. So Corian can't do what you're suggesting, even though it is a good idea.

I guess that explains why such threads don't already exist. Thanks, Olaf, I had no idea.

Bravo! An excellent idea, Corian.

One suggestion: For a thread like this (where it contains a combination of observations and discussion about those observations), it works best when the first post is occasionally updated to include an aggregation of all the observations raised in the thread's posts. That way, new readers can get the info they need without having to read through several pages of posts.

Some observations I'll add...

Also in Flood Season:

1) There is no door on the map between areas 10 and 11; there should be one, unless the only way to perform maintenance on the winch mechanism is to set off the trap.

2) If you don't want the flame from a single torch to burn all the webs (and thus eliminate several traps and the concealment of treasure) in areas 27 and 30-32, be prepared to come up with some sort of logic as to why the webs won't catch fire. In my campaign, I made them wet enough to still be sticky, but not wet enough to burn beyond the immediate area where flame is applied. So a torch could clear webs within reach of the PC waving it, and a burning hands spell would wipe out a 15' cone of webs, but the webs would not actually catch fire and burn any farther.

Just started my group on Jan 15th, with the next session set for the 29th. The seven adventurers making up the party are...

Celes Aran, a human female Paladin of Heironeous with the Noble campaign trait

Jasper "Pious" Skullcracker, a chaos gnome (+1 LA) male Fighter (late to join the party, may change to Warblade or Crusader before he does) with the Touched in the Head campaign trait

Karsia, a half-giant (+1 LA) male Psychic Warrior

Lulia Walala, a whisper gnome female Rogue

Patuljak Saptanje, a whisper gnome male Illusionist with the Touched in the Head campaign trait

Second of Exelous, an aasimar (+1 LA) male Cleric archer of Pelor

Vlasickoo Snerzi, a human male Enchanter with the Scion of Surabar campaign trait

It's time for an update.

We're moving slowly, as we're a large group and real life has a way of intruding. Because several players in my group hadn't played a classic-style D&D game in several years, I decided that I would allow players to make adjustments/changes to their characters over the first several sessions; I wanted them to be happy with what they were playing. The only major change was the chaos gnome switch to a whisper gnome.

As you'll see, I've also been exceedingly generous with some of the class choices.

Currently in the middle of Flood Season...

Celes Aran, a female human Paladin 5 of Heironeous (definitely the group's moral compass and a pillar of strength)

Jasper "Pious" Skullcracker, a male whisper gnome Fighter 2/Warblade 1/Warrior 1/Expert 1 (a chain-fighter with insane-DM-approved generic classes from Unearthed Arcana and some crazy Dungeon magazine feats--a study in complete 3.5e brokenness)

Karsia, a male half-giant Psychic Warrior 4/Fighter 1 (who bull rushes opponents to the party's tactical advantage, like Triel back into her bath/pool)

Lulia Walala, a female whisper gnome Rogue 5 (with a +20 Hide and a +17 Move Silently, she might as well be invisible half the time)

Patuljak Saptanje, a male whisper gnome Wizard 3/Master Specialist Illusionist 2 (master of Knowledge skills and an impressive strategic spell caster)

Second of Exelous, a male aasimar Cleric 5 of Pelor (a larger-than-life personality; focused on archery, he is the party's always reliable damage dealer)

Vlasickoo Snerzi, a male human Wizard 3/Master Specialist Enchanter 2 (the party's face with a +19 Diplomacy, and also a highly tactical spell caster...when he's not fearing for his life)

http://www.ericullman.com/cauldron

However, that's one thing I love about my group of Players. They do things to gain intelligence, and then use that intelligence to plan highly effective tactics. Their teamwork is excellent too. The cryohydra never really stood a chance.

And I bet your players love that their DM rewards smart/inventive play. Bravo!

I think it is generally accepted that the SCAP is below CR target on treasure. That lends to the difficulty level.

I have 7 players with fairly well optimized PCs, and they know how to use them. We're only half way through Flood Season, so not very far, and I have even taken a little treasure away (only gave them half the cash and none of the art from the Lucky Monkey). My plan is to string them out a little bit and then provide some items more specifically designed to fit the PCs.

Interestingly, his statblock lists him as carrying a shield, so it seems kind of odd to me that he gets 2 attacks.

Slap or Slam

The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage.

A slam can just as easily be a headbutt or a kick, just like an unarmed attack.

Balance is fleeting at best in most any game system, including D&D 3.5. Just browse the character optimization board over at the Wizards site to see what I mean.

Poster1: "Warlocks are totally overpowered, so my DM won't allow them."

Poster2: "No, they're not." <presents convincing argument for player to argue his case>

You can make the same cases for or against core druids, illusion magic and so many other components of 3.5.

I didn't want to get into any of that. I wanted to run a published adventure, and I wanted to allow all official 3.5 WotC material. I wanted my players to be able to optimize their PCs as they saw fit...as made them happy. For I have some players who get as much pleasure out of optimizing their characters as they do role-playing them. Sure, those splat books can make for more powerful PCs, but why limit my players' fun, when some simple adjustments on my end can make it all worthwhile?

Still, an adventuring party can be quite formidable without feats/spells/classes from the splat books. My group just finished up at the Lucky Monkey, and Tongueater went down pretty quickly. A well-placed grease spell (first level, core) can have devastating effect, and it was complimented by the group's archer still having silver-tipped arrows (core) left over from battling Drakthar. Add to that a web spell (second level, core) and a rogue's Sneak Attack ability (core), and it's easy to see how quickly a smart group can down a powerful foe, while avoiding taking much damage in the process.

Our Shackled City game is somewhat complicated because we have seven players. Adjusting encounters for party number can be difficult, because as the BBEGs get tougher, the chances that one of your players will die goes up significantly. This is especially true with groups that have more than six players, because the player's hit point pool is spread out, as opposed to dealing with more powerful, i.e., higher-level, PCs. It's easier to add more mooks or medium threat creatures, but you have to be careful with the BBEGs.

I'm still learning how to mod the encounters to better balance them for my group. For BBEGs, it seems that adding to their hit points and making them a little more difficult to hit keeps them around a bit longer to account for the additional player. They're not dealing more damage in any one hit, but they're able to put out more damage total and provide a threat longer before going down. It's also an easy change on the DM's part.

I'm certainly not going to take the time to add class levels to NPCs/monsters or make all the myriad chances for advancing creatures for every chapter. I imagine I'll do it in certain circumstances, but I'm taking them on a case-by-case basis. D&D already requires too much prep time for play as it is.

As far as player requests go, my core mechanic is to respond "Yes" instead of "No". I have a mature group, so this plan works for us. Your mileage may vary.

Regarding handing out XP for overcoming encounters, what's the general take on the situation where the PCs force Drakthar to flee in gaseous form? Do you award XP the first time they cause him to flee, or must the vampire be destroyed? I went with the latter, but I'd be interested to hear what others did and why.

I'd be interested, Delvesdeep. The work you've done is really wonderful stuff, and I think it makes the AP feel more like a cohesive whole, rather than a series of linked adventures.

My group has just started Flood Season (though we're on a break while I change jobs), so I've still got time to employ your story mods. I honestly haven't decided which way to go just yet, because part of my reason for running the Shackled City is to see what a published AP is like when compared to a home campaign. On one hand, I want to run it as written, but on the other, why not make it better for the players by learning from others' insights?

I tend to look for your stuff over at therpgenius.com, since I think this kind of thing works best as a Word doc download. Was that your intent, or were you thinking of making a bunch of posts here?

Either way, I hope you decide to do it!

Thanks much,
Ully

Brilliant, work Shawn. I'll bet your players thoroughly enjoyed their first encounter with the Crier.

Just offhand, what app did you use for layout?

Cheers,
Ully

So my question to you is: what *can* remove the dominatation effect, brought on by a vampire?

I made a mistake in my campaign by allowing Jenya to successfully break Drakthar's domination of an NPC with Dispel Magic. That might work for the Dominate Person spell, but a vampire's dominate ability is supernatural in nature and not subject to being dispelled.

I see only two allowable choices to get the PC permanently un-dominated: (1) Kill Drakthar, or (2) wait 12 days for the compulsion to end.

Of course, none of this should stop you from having a little fun with Iverson, if that's what you want to do. I set up an encounter with him in a prologue session to provide a little foreshadowing.

My response below does not answer any of your questions, Skylight. Sorry for that, but I wanted to explore some of the alternate possibilities, just in case other DMs would like to avoid this sort of difficult situation.

When PCs get into legal troubles (which I'd do my best to help them avoid, since they're to become heroes of Cauldron), I think it's important to consider legal punishment (if any) that falls in line with the sentence (if any) you determined fitting for Keygan Ghelve in your campaign. If he received jail time for his crimes, then letting a PC get away with no jail time for manslaughter undermines the rule of law in your version of Cauldron.

In my campaign, Ghelve was sentenced to a year in prison, and the party paladin thought he got off easy! If one of the PCs, drunk or not, killed a citizen, they'd definitely be looking at time in prison. Killing a noble in my campaign is considered worse and carries a harsher punishment. I'd have done my best to point out to a player bent on doing lethal damage that there would be consequences if he or she did serious harm to anyone. If they continued down that path to the same conclusion as did your player, there'd be little chance of escaping jail time, effectively removing the PC from the campaign.

This is my campaign, though, and it's likely different from many others. My players are almost all in their thirties, and they enjoy a bit of Rule of Law in the game. Their PCs all had to be of Good or Neutral alignments, and carrying out an evil act carries consequences. I think it's important to point out to players when their PC are getting into dangerous territory, even metagaming to do so. Their characters would certainly have a grasp of the trouble into which they were getting, and there's no dishonor in metagaming to point that out, assuming that clues given in-game didn't dissuade them.

However it goes in your game, I think that Jenya and Alek would certainly have a problem with the PC in question. Players choosing to participate in drunken brawls that leave a noble dead aren't likely to be defended by the Church of St. Cuthbert. That could present some challenges for the PCs when it comes to asking for guidance, healing, etc, and the character would have a long way to go to redeem himself in the eyes of the Church.

Anyway, I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think these are points worth considering.

<snip>

Knowledge Skills. I would like to see detailed, pervasive information on what characters can find with their knowledge skills. In many cases, I am fine with the information provided to be non-essential, as long as it develops flavor for the campaign. Knowledge (Architecture) for history of design or culture. Knowledge (Nobility) to give background on local rules, etc. Just about every area in most adventures could stand to have more information placed in it suggesting how various knowledge skills can be used, or what information they provide. This is also, in my opinion, an excellent way to get campaign flavor information to the players in game.
<snip>

I quite like the Monster Lore info that appeared in Monster Manual 4, which provides info on what the PCs might learn about a creature with a successful Knowledge (appropriate) skill check. For an example, take a look at the Black Rock Triskelion lore entry in the MM4 preview.

I'd love to see Monster Lore info included for each new monster introduced with the Pathfinder adventures (and Game Mastery modules, too).

The session was last Wednesday, and we didn't get very far with the Drakthar plan...

Delvesdeep's idea of using Drakthar as a recurring enemy really struck a chord with me, and it was fairly easy to justify from Drakthar's perspective, since the party had done well against him the first time around, slaughtered his goblins and killed or captured two of the Blue Duke's mercs. It's the kind of thing that this group would really enjoy, too.

I do have a couple of concerns with my new plan.

(1) Taking away Drakthar's magic goods might leave the party without helpful items for the difficult Flood Season adventure.

(2) I was impressed with how my group prepared for their second delve into Drakthar's way. They bought what silver they could, and the spellslingers prepared Magic Weapon and Protection from Evil. With a group fairly new to this sort of classic D&D, I should reward that behavior early on to encourage it later.

With the first part of the session taken up with interrogating Kallev and preparing for their second delve, they didn't get very far into Drakthar's stronghold, since the vampire had stationed an adept and two goblin skirmishers behind stacked crates placed on either side of the bathhouse entrance into the dungeon. So, I could revise my plan and let them catch Drakthar in the act of supervising a coffin excavation. That would reward them for preparing and for not taking too long to get back down there. They'd also not be heading into Flood Season underpowered.

So, as much fun as it would be to have Drakthar get away to stalk the party in the future, I'm leaning towards letting the party have the chance to destroy him.

Delvesdeep, you are an eeeevil DM. That's why I love ya. ;-)

Thanks for the cool ideas, Alien and Schmoe. The session is tomorrow, but I still haven't quite worked things out. Will definitely let you know how it goes.

Thanks, Alien.

Drakthar doesn't have to be in dire wolf form; that just happened to be what I chose for his first appearance. I picked up Wizards' sweet Vampire Dire Wolf mini, and it was just too good to pass up. It also happened that the dire wolf form worked well as a challenge for the party.

Chorlyndyr, the human sorcerer merc, was killed outright and Kallev, the tiefling fighter merc, subdued and captured just before Drakthar appeared. I've thought about Xoden the dwarf and the Blue Duke's mercs, and I think that Drakthar would need to dominate them to get them to act on his behalf before the party returns on the following morning.

I am trying to keep the XP awards down for this chapter, so I don't really want to double-up on half-orc mercs and goblins. Perhaps preparing the remaining goblins, adding a few more and summoning up some bat/rat swarms or wolves will do it...

Hi all,

My group had their first encounter with Drakthar last session, and everyone had a great time. This particular dungeon has been progressing from kinda boring (the first goblin battle was a joke, with the party annihilating way too many of the poor little guys), to better (the goblin adepts and worgs were much more fun) to awesome.

Drakthar was a real challenge, even though I had him attack my party of seven min/maxed PCs all by himself. He came in dire wolf form and was able to sneak up on the party's enlarged aasimar cleric... Well, complete round-by-round details are on the campaign wiki, if you're interested.

Basically, the party left the dungeon after finally taking Drakthar down to zero HP and forcing him to assume gaseous form. They plan to recharge, research vampires, prepare and return to the dungeon. I awarded them zero XP for this session, since they really battled to a draw and will have to face him again.

It seems to me that Drakthar will go looking for the party as soon as he can regain a more corporeal form. Would he leave the dungeon in search of the party once he finds they're no longer present? Or, would he spend his time restocking the goblins and preparing for their return?

I'd love to have him go looking for the party, and he could conceivably use the scent ability of his dire wolf form, but I'm having trouble justifying that course of action. It appeals to me, because I would rather not provide too much in the way of additional XP via restocked goblins and such. The group has already hit an APL of 4, and I'd rather they don't hit level 5 before Flood Season.

I'd love to hear opinions here.

Thanks in advance.

Ully

On the other hand, some battles have gone shockingly (to me) easily. They killed Kazmojen in 3 rounds...

Tell me about it. My group has two wizards, and Kazmojen was Glitterdusted, Greased and surrounded by an illusory prismatic cylinder. The party even took out the durzagar before he could quaff his Potion of Invisibility. Only Prickles was a threat, nearly killing the party rogue with a bite and three quills.

Sounds like your changes will definitely get your players more connected. Nice planning!

...in the dream his Rapier is silver...

Don't forget, vampires have DR 10/magic AND silver. So you might want that silver blade in the dream to glow a bit. ;-)

My group just returned the kidnapped children to the orphanage, but Jenya informed them that she can not pay them until they register with the city as an official adventuring group. To register, of course, the group must have a name.

Here's what they've come up with (though not every player has ratified this choice):

The Illuminated Nondenominational Prefectorially Anointed Dragonflies of Elusive and Scholarly Skull-cracking

That's TIN PADrES for short.

Now the rest of you have some idea of what I must put up with as DM. ;-)

Thank, Pelor! They've come up with a better name.

They're known as Caulron's Seven, or just Seven.

If none of the PCs in your campaign are interested in running for Lord Mayor, then Alek makes a great candidate.

One of my players set that goal for himself when his PC was only 3rd-level. He just decided that he'd like to be Lord Mayor of Cauldron someday.

My group just returned the kidnapped children to the orphanage, but Jenya informed them that she can not pay them until they register with the city as an official adventuring group. To register, of course, the group must have a name.

Here's what they've come up with (though not every player has ratified this choice):

The Illuminated Nondenominational Prefectorially Anointed Dragonflies of Elusive and Scholarly Skull-cracking

That's TIN PADrES for short.

Now the rest of you have some idea of what I must put up with as DM. ;-)