Is 4e prompting you to shelve your Shackled City game?


Shackled City Adventure Path


Greetings all,

Maybe it's just the time of year (finals, graduations, etc.), but it seems to me that this board has been less busy of late. One other possibility is that the impending release of 4e has folks either (a) slowing down their current Shackled City campaign to take a look at 4e and maybe play an introductory adventure, or (b) shelving their Shackled City game and moving to 4e entirely.

Personally, I've got the 4e books on order, but my players and I plan to continue with our Shackled City campaign (currently in Bhal-Hamatugn) and see it through. We're invested in the story and the characters. So we are happily carrying on. We may try out some of the Pathfinder RPG rules or even switch over entirely, since we probably have two years still to play, but we won't be trying any sort of crazy 4e conversion.

What about you? What's the plan for your Shackled City campaign?


It hasn't affected my game. Then again, the one I'm DMing is a play-by-email and the pace is fairly glacial (i.e. roughly one adventure per year!).

My players have had a mixed reaction towards 4.0; some like it, some hate it.

Dark Archive

My players will be finishing up Shackled City no matter what. We are about to start the Demonskar Legacy. Most of them play two games a week so if they get an itching for 4.0 then I'm sure they'll find a way to play it too.


I'm pushing the pace to finish ASAP so we can start a 4e campaign. We just started Asylum and I hope to finish in the next couple of weeks.

I'm personally stoked about 4e (and to be a player again).


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

It's not affecting my Shackled City game. We might take a couple weeks off to try some 4e, but that's about it.

Liberty's Edge

Not trying to be smart, but this AP is several years old now; there may just be less people currently playing it because of its age.

Dark Archive

We just started Drakthar's Way last session, and I have no plans to switch in the near future. Even after I finish running the SCAP, I doubt I'll switch altogether - what matters most to me is the quality of published modules to work with, and I have a ton of great 3.5 material to run.

Some of my players have discussed starting up 4e campaigns on the side, so I'll probably take part in those, but I'm going to keep going with this one as long as they'll let me!


Nobody will buy the 4# in our group, finishing Bhal Hamatung for SC after that it will be AoW and STide.....3.5 forever....or Pathfinder.


We're not switching. We play once a month for 8-10 hours. We're at Lords of Oblivion.

Some months they burn through a chapter, some months they do not much of anything. Last month they shopped in Calimport (my campaign is FR) then argued for 2 hours whether to kick in the door of House Rhiavadi and blast anyone who was there, or to do the stealth thing and listen in on the meeting.

Two more weeks until the next session.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Wrapping up my current, Afghanistan tour SC game, I'm already planning on a virtual tabletop game with some of my friends who moved while I was away. And I expect to continue to replay it with new groups for quite awhile, along with Age of Worms and Savage Tide, not to mention the Pathfinder APs.


Highly unlikely that my core group will switch to 4th, although I'm willing to give it a shot as an addition to our RPG portfolio, rather than as a replacement for 3.5.

As for my SCAP, they just got to meet Crazy Jared and everyone is exceptionally invested in their characters. Considering two of them are classes that don't exist yet in 4e, well, thats just another nail in the coffin as far as Im concerned.

Still, I might try running a 4th Ed 1 shot, see if anyone bites. It is a different game, a different world, and part of me is unnerved to see something so radically different from the slowly evolving "what I know" of Greyhawk, Planescape, and the Paizo APs. Course, I didn't particularily like Eberron for that same reason, I found things from it to "slowly evolve" into my "personal greyhawkish campaign setting".

I understand too how my wife feels. She's not a fast reader, but she loves D&D. A whole new edition to read and learn, when she doesn't have much time to spare anyway, just isn't very attractive. Coupled with the fact that we have plenty of fun with our houseruled 3.5 books that we've collected over the years, and its just not worth it to switch. Not enough profit (fun) for the cost (learning time and money). Still plenty of profit to squeeze out of 3.5, and the cost is already paid.

Sovereign Court

For us it's the other way around, we just started the shackled city last week and I personally don't intend to even look at 4th until we're finished.


4e has absolutely zero effect on our continuing Shackled City game.

Scarab Sages

My group is just finishing Flood Season (and having a great time!). We have no intention of converting to 4E (ever). When Pathfinder Beta is released I will give everyone the option of converting their characters to 3.P or remaining with 3.5. I don't foresee any problems with finishing SCAP (other than finding game dates compatible with everyone's busy schedule - most of my group are age 45+ and have to juggle work, family, etc. to find time for gaming).


Actually, it's prompting me to start a Shackled City campaign. I'm working on a 4e conversion of SCAP. Right now, I'm contemplating conversions of Raggomoffyns(?) and Automatons, and figuring out how to 4e-ify the encounters in Jzadirune.

It's interesting. The DMG gives good guidelines for AC, defenses, etc., and the 'domination' rules will work well for the Raggomoffyns. There are also lots of traps that could work well with the new rules.

The two things I've noticed are:
1) The terrain features of the various regions can be played up to good effect in 4e.

2) The upper level of Jzadirune has a lot of skirmishers, controllers and lurkers, but only the automatons really fall into the realm of soldiers/brutes. I'm still contemplating how to recombine the encounters to good effect.

Working on it has been good fun, and a great excuse to read large chunks of the 4e DMG.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

My group is about 58 sessions into SC, 2/3 of the way through Test of the Smoking Eye and we are probably going to finish that adventure off and conclude the campaign to move on to 4th edition.

I DM for a couple of different groups and this one is having trouble with the upper levels of 3.x (in particular the massive recalcs required for buffing/ability damage etc). 4E is looking like a simple (to 3.x) alternative. I'll be polling the group to see what their preference is in the next couple of days.

My AoW group is going to stick with 3.5, they like the crunch and calculation. When we finish it off (currently 3/4 of the way done Champions Belt), we'll either move on to Shackled City or (more likely) the Pathfinder RPG and Rise of the Runelords.

My RotRL group is playtesting Pathfinder RPG and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

Sovereign Court

My son gets out for college break next week and we'll be picking back up where we left off. Just finished Flood Season before he left in the fall, so we'll be heading into the next section.

This is with my wife, son, and a friend of ours. Initially we started out in 3.5E but my wife just found it too much overhead. (she skipped from 1E to 3.5E with about 20 years in between) So we switched to Microlite20. I'm going to convert their characters to 4E when it's out and see how they like that for a couple sessions. If it's still too much we may just fall back to Microlite20 again. Do what's fun for the players.

-Pete

Liberty's Edge

I considered converting the game over to 4E but then I decided against it once I took a look at encounter design. I don't have the time or inclination to convert something as massive as Shackled City.

I had plans of running Age of Worms and Savage Tide once I finished Shackled City and I will likely convert those over to 4E before I run them.


The effect of 4e on our SC game (we've just crashed a certain house party) amounts to about 5 minutes of b@+#@ing how WoWish it seems to be (noone has bothered looking at it from closer than what you can't escape on some boards or webcomics, so we might be wrong).

I think converting the SC is impossible. The best one could do is to take all stories, maps and handouts, which are fairly rules independent and put together completely new encounters using that material. In that sense, it could benefit from the existing work and not turn into a conversion nightmare.

Speaking of work put in. The explosive response to this thread has showed that there seem to be a lot of people still reading in on these boards, but the inpour of new ideas has slowed down quite a bit. I'm not trying to complain too loud, most has probably been brought up (and I should just browse the archives) but especially in the later chapters, there seem to be some gaps, we might still be able to fill with wonderful user-created material.

All hails to Delvesdeep's alternative ending, but I think, it should be possible to also have a great plot thickening around the cagewrights as they are written, it just needs some ideas to connect them at opportune moments to the party and have the minor bosses (Orbius, Last Laugh) stay just the speed bump, they were intended to be instead of promoting them to one of the thirteen.

If you are thinking along those lines, keep the juices flowing and we'll create a memorable archive of 3rd party info for other SCAPpers to come ...

Cheers,
Nib


I run the SCAP (HC Version) online weekly using Fantasy Grounds 2. My players have just met the "false sisters" in The Demonskar Legacy. Given our slow rate of play online, we have quite a ways to go. The onset of 4th Edition will not stop us from completing the SCAP as planned.

With that said, the onset of 4th Edition will certainly have an effect on the game. Myself and many of the players will be playing 4E as much as possible in addition to finishing the SCAP, and i am fairly concerned that folks, myself especially, will tire of the complexity of high-level play in 3.5. Maybe, maybe not. To make life as easy on everyone as possible, we will try to incorporate some of the ideas from 4E into the 3.5 rules, if and when we can do so. If by the time the 4E PHB2 is released, we just can't stand to play 3.5 anymore, we may then have enough options and experience to convert everything to 4E and finish the SCAP that way. Only time will tell.

I would very much like to run a 4E conversion of the SCAP, so i look forward to seeing how some of you accomplish that. Please share if you do convert.


Did I say the posting rate had slowed of late? Thank you, one and all, for allowing me to say that I stand corrected. ;-)

nib, to your point:

nib wrote:

All hails to Delvesdeep's alternative ending, but I think, it should be possible to also have a great plot thickening around the cagewrights as they are written, it just needs some ideas to connect them at opportune moments to the party and have the minor bosses (Orbius, Last Laugh) stay just the speed bump, they were intended to be instead of promoting them to one of the thirteen.

If you are thinking along those lines, keep the juices flowing and we'll create a memorable archive of 3rd party info for other SCAPpers to come ...

That is exactly what I've been thinking. I love Delvesdeep's mods (just ran his outstanding Demonskar Ball event to great success), but I, too, have been thinking about keeping the original thirteen and finding ways to build up the less visible antagonists. I just need time to start putting thoughts down where I can organize and flesh them out. Once I do, I'll most definitely share them here, and then the minds in this community will improve upon them for all our benefit.

The Shackled City adventure path was a breakthrough product, and I'm overjoyed that so many here are still very much wrapped up in it.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Two years in and I'm still running it for a group of 8! We play once a week for 3 hours and my players are just now finishing up Zenith Trajectory, so we probably have over 2 years left to go.

I don't have plans to convert to V4 but will buy it and study it for easy-to-implement improvements. I'll also pick up the Pathfinder RPG and study that as well. My group is more likely to convert to Pathfinder than V4 because Pathfinder is supposedly backward compatible, so we'll see.

Vhalantru Lives!

Hurm.


Ully wrote:
What about you? What's the plan for your Shackled City campaign?

I want to stop running it and play and run 4e from now on.


Last Sunday evening we finished our last campaing (something like a 5 years long, all homemade campaing starting from the Norwold setting from the 1e D&D Test of The Warlords).

I will start the SCAP HC just after the summer and I will convert it to 4e rules.

I'm reading the "Wizards presents..." booklets, and I'm choosing which changes instert in the campaing: starting with general setting-history, classes and races-monsters.

I'm very pleased to be able to developed the whole campaing from the start, so I hope to obtain an homogeneous mix converting to 4e; if I'm not happy with the results in the next 2-3 months of thinking, I will only use 4e rules with 3.5/SCAP HC setting - races - etc.

In regards to 4e changes, I just start to develop some ideas:
dragonborn more saurial like and less dragonlike (remove some draconic feats?);
tielfing instead of half-orcs;
replace some more halfing NPC with differetn classes;
I'm waiting for gnome's news;
....


For Riley
for now seems we are the only two converting SCAP to 4e.
As for your point 2) I didn't like too much the monster choices in Life Bazaar even before getting into 4e conversion: in the specific I don't like 3 different races of monsters (hobgoblins, skulk and dark ones) appearing once forever in the AP without any foreshadowing/tale/etc. So I will bring togheter dark ones and hobgoblins in a single monstrous race of soldiers/brutes (I will wait to have in my hands the new MM before chosing), leaving only skulks as skirmishers. Also skulks will be have more important role in LL guild. And what if doppleganger are the leaders/evolved skulks? Gortio survives the PCs raid in Jzadirune and became one of PCs nemesis (but maybe they never discover this...)

There is something like "personal messages" in this forum?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

4E has no effect on my SC game either. In fact, last session I finally got the group to convert to Pathfinder RPG for playtesting and tonight will be our first full session using the new rules. We're currently in the first half of Demonscar Legacy, and while we have a while to go still, I'm looking forward to running the rest of the Dungeon APs and then the Pathfinder APs using the PRPG rules for many years to come.

Liberty's Edge

No way! We are half-way finished with the SCAP. Next game they will take one the 3rd of Smoking Eye Tests.

I have no intention of switching to 4th. I think there are some good aspects of 4E - but they are in small tidbits - the overall system is not a good match for me. Compound that with the fiscal sense of staying 3.5, makes it an easy no-brainer. I have too many good 3.5 modules and material and money invested in it to give it up now. There are a couple of my players fully interested in 4E and will be engaging in a new campaign of 4E that will not affect this campaign at all. I may, as a player, play it a bit, but as a DM, I'm not interested in swapping it all out - nor spending the time and effort it would take to change AoW or other possible follow-up projects to 4E rules.

Most of my players are not switching either, so its a good fit for us all. Furthermore, I've been very much involved in the play-testing and feedback on the Pathfinder forums, and so I have a lot of energy invested in that project and so I see myself sticking with 3.PF for many years to come.

Robert


No. We are determined to finish SCAP in 3.5. We have accelerated our schedule, so that we can do it before too long. Session 50 is Friday, we are early into "Foundations" and seem to average 6 sessions per mod.


My group has only just started Drakthar's Way but we're all having a great time. I think we've just finished our 10th fortnightly session. At our current pace I think it will be a couple of years before we finish.

I'm interested in 4E but there is no way that I will be converting SCAP over to 4E. We'll still be playing through it as is until we finish.

Most of my players also play in other games so I imagine that they will get their 4E fix somewhere along the line.

Olaf the Stout


Ully wrote:

Did I say the posting rate had slowed of late? Thank you, one and all, for allowing me to say that I stand corrected. ;-)

nib, to your point:

nib wrote:

All hails to Delvesdeep's alternative ending, but I think, it should be possible to also have a great plot thickening around the cagewrights as they are written, it just needs some ideas to connect them at opportune moments to the party and have the minor bosses (Orbius, Last Laugh) stay just the speed bump, they were intended to be instead of promoting them to one of the thirteen.

If you are thinking along those lines, keep the juices flowing and we'll create a memorable archive of 3rd party info for other SCAPpers to come ...

That is exactly what I've been thinking. I love Delvesdeep's mods (just ran his outstanding Demonskar Ball event to great success), but I, too, have been thinking about keeping the original thirteen and finding ways to build up the less visible antagonists. I just need time to start putting thoughts down where I can organize and flesh them out. Once I do, I'll most definitely share them here, and then the minds in this community will improve upon them for all our benefit.

The Shackled City adventure path was a breakthrough product, and I'm overjoyed that so many here are still very much wrapped up in it.

What's this?! You don't want to use one of my ideas!? That's just not allowed you too! ;)

All jokes aside, I have noticed lately that the boards have slowed down and less ideas have been included of late. IMHO The last good thread I read and started to rely to was the Alakast thread because Robert included a nice little twist on finding the legendary item. Other than that there has been little to sink my teeth into of late.

On the topic though - I have no intention of changing over to 4E while I'm still playing through the SCAP if in fact at all. Most of my party have groaned and moaned after each version has been brought out and some still wish to convert back to the first edition!

We have slowed down out play of late because of verious family issues but we are starting to renew our interest once again. We are just about to begin Secrets of the Soul Pillars but I have a few minor side treks I need to throw in along the way.

I'm looking forward to when (hopefully)the party attack the Last Laugh headquarters and face 'The Fish'. I am also very excited about sending the party off to Sasserine to track dow the missing Lord Mayor and finding out the truth about Vhalantru, the 'man' they helped be elected to the same position! :)

Uncovering Shebeleth's identity will also be a great unveiling for my group especially my Cleric who is very untrusting and disrespectful to more NPCs but is in awe of the Bishop and has followed his directions almost unconditionally since his arrival.

This part of the campaign will be my groups chance to finally start to 'fight back' and uncover the hidden evil manipulations that they have unwittingly been servant to for so long.

Why would you want to begin 4E and give up the chance to play through all that.

Delvesdeep

Liberty's Edge

Having read through all four 4E books I can say that it looks smooth, different, but smooth. I have not yet had the opportunity to play it but I am planning a side game to test it out. I'm going to run Kobold Hall from the DMG and then Keep on the Shadowfell.

I know this has already been said but I want to agree with the earlier post. If someone were to convert Shackled City over to 4E it would be easier to strip away all the rules and use the story as a base to create new encounters. A straight up conversion would get real clunky real fast, especially at higher levels. Of course, converting 1E and 2E material to 3.x had the same clunky problems unless encounters were redesigned from the ground up, and I ran a lot of old material in 3E.

Liberty's Edge

delvesdeep wrote:

What's this?! You don't want to use one of my ideas!? That's just not allowed you too! ;)

All jokes aside, I have noticed lately that the boards have slowed down and less ideas have been included of late. IMHO The last good thread I read and started to rely to was the Alakast thread because Robert included a nice little twist on finding the legendary item. Other than that there has been little to sink my teeth into of late.

Hmmm.....that must have been a while - I dont remember that, DD.

By the way, did you ever write the Haunted Village side trek, DD?

I'm curious as I'm really hoping to use it.

For the record - one of my reasons for having bee somewhat quiet on these boards lately - is that for the past several months, some of my players have been frequent visitors to the Paizo messageboards to help playtest and discuss the PF-RPG stuff - and I have been very cautious about putting things on here for fear that they may stumble upon it.

I have recently had a good conversation with them about my concerns and preferences that they stay away from the SCAP messages - even the titles can be spoilers.

I trust that they have enough integrity to stay away. I've posted more and shared more secrets today than I have in the past four months combined - just two days after having that talk with my players.

Robert

Liberty's Edge

My SCAP campaign has been very slow, but is still going. We played last weekend, got about halfway through the big temple fight in Zenith Trajectory (Aushanna has just appeared and spent a couple of rounds wreaking havoc, with most of the party now holed up under the statue platform trying to come up with a strategy to defeat her … and one PC unfortunately stuck in the meditation chamber with Mangh Michto and some rising water…).

Anyway … no, 4E will have no impact on my campaign – what may have an impact on it is Pathfinder … I’ve been half considering for a while running RotRL or CotCT instead of finishing SCAP, possibly using the Beta rules. Haven’t decided yet. I’d like to finish SCAP, but it will take a long time, and I don’t have time to run two games side by side.


Ully wrote:
What's the plan for your Shackled City campaign?

Actually a group of mine wants to revisit Shackled City using 4e. About 2 years ago we made it to level 11, but then it became such a power game that we abandoned it. Now we are thinking of converting characters to 4e and seeing what we can make out of the remaining adventures.


We are continuing SCAP in its original and ignoring 4e. My group is just finishing the seige of Redgorge (used the first half of nib's, then they ran off to Occipitus, then used the second half of delvesdeep's - d'oh!). I hope they go back to Cauldron and we get through the Cathedral of Wee Jas soon. I looked at all the Cagewrights again this week and realized that even with the contributed foreshadowing mods, cutting back the CAgewrights, and mods of my own, fully half of these people will evoke "who the hell is THAT?" responses when they meet the party and declare their enmity. I'm working on yet more foreshadowing (sigh).

Treppa teh Hutt


Intrepid, if you download some of the latest Quill & Parchment issues (say, 17+) from rpgenius.com, you might find a few things to help with the CW foreshadowing.

I'll just create a new thread about my recent CW foreshadowings...

Cheers,
Nib


sadly with the release of 4e, my game is on hiatus while we digest the effects of how 4e works.

Its been great swaping ideas with you and if there is ever a day that I return the the SC either in 3.x or 4.x , this is the 1st place I will come.


I don't think it will effect my game much at all. We are about half way through Occipitus / Test of the Smoking Eye and things are going pretty well. On the other hand this is the highest I have run in 3.X and am not really happy with how the power differential is working out. So how this goes might really effect what my NEXT campaign is. We'll see...

Sean Mahoney

Sovereign Court

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Not quite the same, but my play group started Pathfinder STAP last Monday! So no, 4e hasn't influenced us.

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