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91 posts (143 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 aliases.

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ArenCordial wrote:

I'm curious Sean, what's the designers feel at Paizo right now on the Slayer?

Is it considered done or are you guys debating adding certain things?

Also curious! I'm hoping for an update on many of the other classes soon as well.

I'm sure they're tirelessly plugging away at things--but it'd be cool to hear about what directions they're leaning towards.

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I think "advanced" is more related to the concept of the classes.

Fighting guy - basic concept
Sneaky Guy - basic concept
SneakyFighting Guy - slightly more complex.

And I for one am always in favor of non-magic using classes. I think they still have plenty of design space.

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Just wanted to bring up some comments Google made which I largely agreed with wholeheartedly. Mostly that it's in this section I feel the class needs a large amount of work.

Googleshng wrote:

Derring-do: Not worth paying for the way panache works. I'd be fine dropping it, it'd be neat if it was always on with a panache in reserve.

I agree, I'd basically never use it. The only situation I can see coming up is if I needed to use Escape Artist to get out of some kind of grapple wherein my CMB wouldn't cut it. Panache is currently too important for my damage for me to waste out of combat on skills. I like the idea of exploding dice however.

Googleshng wrote:
Dodging Panache: It's incredibly rare that you can find a use for it, but it is good when it comes up... at very low levels when you have nothing better to do with your panache. Upgrade the movement to 10' at level 7, or just in general even, and it's worth keeping.

Agree with the bold section. It allows her to occasionally avoid full attacks, (of course not if the monster has reach, or step-up type feats). Even if it didn't interrupt full attacks, by being more than a simple 5' step it still provides possible respite for next turn's potential full attack.

And we've also just added to her mobility in combat.

Googleshng wrote:

Parry/Riposte: Needs to come later because it's too much dip-bait as is, and I still think you should only be able to do it on something that will hit you. As is it's a no brainer to blow every point of free panache you get on it. If you couldn't do so basically every round, it'd be risky to horde for it and you'd look around.

I like this move a lot. Perhaps level 3 is a more appropriate time to get it. I agree that it should only be usable if something is indeed going to hit you. That makes sense to me fluff-wise and mechanically.

This is the primary use of Panache, and Immediate Actions (the Riposte).

Googleshng wrote:

Kip-Up: Perfect as it is and where it is.

Adds mobility, and combat usefulness... a static benefit and at a cost a better one. Sounds good.

Googleshng wrote:

Menacing Swordplay: Does it really need to be a swift? Can we just have it once a round, after dealing damage? It's a minor and obscure enough mechanic to be easily forgotten even then, and with all the demand on swifts, it becomes real hard to remember you can do it on rounds you aren't spending panache. I could also see just dropping it, if you want to do this, there's a feat.

I've never personally cared about demoralizing my foes in combat. I'm definitely not spending a swift action on it (which could be instead free damage with a riposte, or enhanced Precise Strike). Like he mentioned, there's a series of feats for this. Why waste class design space?

Googleshng wrote:

Precise Strike: Enough with the weird half-measure approach. Stick it at level 1, drop the panache spending, let it crit normally. Just don't call it precision damage and tada. As written it is a very hard to detect trap which effectively locks you out of every other deed with no real benefit.

I like Precise Strike's first paragraph. In a nutshell I agree.

Googleshng wrote:

Swashbuckler's Initiative: Drop it and free up a slot for something good. Gunslingers benefit because they get to make a ranged full attack against an AC of 10 in round 1 if they go first. Swashbucklers just get to... move out of range of the wizard casting haste on everyone.

I understand why it's here. I'm not against it from a flavor standpoint, but in practical applications it isn't terribly useful. What if this just became an increase to base move speed?

Googleshng wrote:

Superior Feint: Drop it. It's basically a mandatory teamwork feat that wastes your turn.

It's potential utility which I'm not entirely against. I'd only want to use this in very specific occasions however. Maybe if I could just sacrifice a single attack out of a full attack action to do this.

Googleshng wrote:

Targeted Strike: Drop it. The gunslinger version's good for cinematic stuff when someone's way across the room or on a balcony or something. Swashbucklers can just use maneuvers and not waste their whole turn.

I'm not as against this as Google is. I hold staggering, confusing or knocking prone an enemy with no save in very high regard. And it's a shout out to the class' gunslinger routes.

Googleshng wrote:

Bleeding Wound: Perfect, don't change a thing... I'd suggest maybe moving it to 15, but around there it's hard to find things that bleed.

I like it. It's worthy of the Panache point spending, and doesn't gum up our action economy.

Googleshng wrote:

Evasive: Good, but maybe break it up? Seems weird to skip directly to improved Evasion.

Not sure what Google means about "skipping to improved evasion"

Googleshng wrote:

Dizzing Defense: Drop it or maybe give it out at a low level. Really low. It'd be pretty neat at 1 or 3.

I'm still confused about this ability.

Googleshng wrote:

Perfect Thrust: Drop it. This isn't even a case of the gunslinger version working because you have ranged touch attacks. This is nerfing the gunslinger equivalent to the point there is no sane reason you'd ever consider it.

The practical applications of this are very limited. I'd vote to drop it.

Googleshng wrote:

Swashbuckler's Edge: Move it to level 1? Maybe 3? It's neat, but pointless this high up. At level 1, I'd require a panache point to use it though, probably.

I agree that it feels useless at this level. By level 15 the skills that matter to you probably get a bigger bonus than you could roll on the d20.

Googleshng wrote:

Stunning Stab: Redundant, might be OK many levels earlier.

I'd love to see this around levels 7-12.

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Ruggs wrote:
Heladriell wrote:

Debilitation (Ex): Upon reaching the 4th level, the Investigator can chose to inflict a status effect when performing a Studied Strike. He selects a Debilitation at 4th level and can chose another for every three investigator levels thereafter. Unless noted otherwise the duration of the effects is equal to the investigator’s INT bonus in rounds. The save to avoid the effect is (Fort. 10+1/2 the investigator lvl. + INT mod.). Effects:

At 4th level, the Investigator can select from the following initial Debilitations:.
• Fatigued: The target is fatigued.
• Shaken: The target is shaken.
• Sickened: The target is sickened.

At 7th level, an Investigator adds the following Debilitations to the list of those that can be selected.
• Dazed: The target is dazed.
• Staggered: The target is staggered,

At 10th level, an Investigator adds the following Debilitations to the list of those that can be selected.
• Exhausted: The target is exhausted.
• Frightened: The target is frightened.
• Nauseated: The target is nauseated.

At 13th level, an Investigator adds the following Debilitations to the list of those that can be selected.
• Blinded: The target is blinded.
• Deafened: The target is deafened.
• Paralyzed: The target is paralyzed.
• Stunned: The target is stunned.

- The damage provided is not too high, being lighter than the rogue or the spell based attacks. Getting a one hit (if it hits) mid-to-high damage follows the concept.
- This mechanic allows the class to be viable in a fight from the 1st level.
- The debilitations add flavour causing status that are already available at the required level (and not breaking the balance).
- The rogue (or vivisectionist or alchemist) will still deal more damage in most situations.

I was thinking of this post specifically as a concept. I love the creative, "I'm-an-intelligent-guy" concept that the investigator represents. Would it be desirable to include some intelligent tricks...

This is shaping up to be my absolute favorite class concept.

Take some of these notions, work in an investigative sidekick option, and Paizo, you've done it again.

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Malachi's suggestions sound great to me. Although, I honestly wish I could keep riposting (multiple times in a round) up to my number of available AoO's via burning extra panache... but perhaps that'd be too strong.

Precise Strike: Would it be too powerful to have both options? Spend a Panache as a swift action to deal double your level as precision damage...or spend 1 panache and have it deal your level in damage that can multiply on crit? (seems a bit strong to give that much flexibility tbh. Having cake and eating it too). Or Perhaps leave it as is, and later on in the class they can start multiplying the extra damage on crit? (as a new level 16 or 19 ability?)

I am also confused about Dizzying Defense.

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Things don't look good for the prospect of pancakes. D:

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F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
.... Might have to give them a salary bump up to four magic beans.

But that's..that's almost twice as many beans!

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Haha I really hope the effects of working in an obviously haunted office building over night will manifest in the AP.

I cannot express to you the joy that would come from reading it and being able to read between the lines and say "Ah...yes this is where Wes was assaulted by the spirits...oh and here is where he drank some!"