This is her Familiar
The Iron Orchid Alt
IMAGE HERE
The Iron Orchid is, he would say, The Sapphire light's better half. They have been together for a very long time and She would be nothing with out him, he knows this.
He will insist he is an AI NOT anything as base as an intelligent item. "Your thinking singing swords" he would say. "Im not a party trick, I have refinement and class"
If an AI can be a snob, then its the The Iron Orchid. Who has been known to open a trapdoor on a rude guest before. Dumping them unceremoniously onto what ever contentment or sea he happens to be hovering over. he dose not 'do' war or Politics, 'Base things for the lower classes' he would say. Do he and Sapphire make a living as hosts and well having a good time.
@ W E Ray, all helpful but I think the Powergaming DM is saying he's having a hard time running a free style [Invested] game over a set module W E Ray, time away is not whats being asked for, its help in working out how to do thing.
@Ven'atorix
I'm a long standing GM who has never run a module as is and has in most cases just 'Made it up as I went along' so I've got a lot of experience and my hope was to help Powergaming DM work out where to go. As a Co-GM I would keep my PC in game bit shift her to NPC while doing some GMing for the rest of you.
I had a think and I think I know where to go from here for you guys, and a means to move things along.
But I don't want to do anything until Powergaming DM Green lights it.
Then you shall have it, I mean it, as players and I think I speak for all of us, we really want this game to work. At 20th level, the players AND GM have to make the game. None of us are new hands to this and that is a bank of Know-how that can be at your beck and call.
Ill send you a PM later outlining some ways you could go from here.
Ill CC DB as well.
I am really sorry about the lack of input. This is my first game that I have tried to run without an adventure path.
Personally I don't really know how to go about increasing my input. I am sorry for wasting everyones time.
Dos this mean your saying you can't do this or your don't know how to do this' if the latter look what I posted as a challenge at the assassins giuld just aset of room each with big bads in. Then starstone test mod. I think there is an outline somewhere.
If your saying your GM skills are not up to this then I offer my help as another sub=DM I have already talked to DB about it.
Other players how do you feel about me helping out the GM,
Don't worry I want to all Marry Jane PC on you.
I'll NPC her if needs be
I'm not posting again until we get a longer post from the GM, helping us out. I think we are all starting to get the feeling need more than a few lines
That! is a great find Sundakan, we will most definitely be using that.
See even the GM likes my Mad idea,
So who's up for fun.
I am thinking,
The Hidden
The Demon we'er after is using a Simulacrum host on the prime, Its true form is locked away inside a pocked Dimension.
So we have to get past here Followers and then go thought Six Demi plane rooms full of CR120 of Badness each.
re have to keep the cult intact because we need them later.
Assassins Giuld are her followers V Leadership witch is maxed.
Their mooks, BUT we have to get past all 250 of them with out upsetting the city.
Once past and in the middle of the building is 1st of 5 gates, each leading to a Demi plane room, to get past the gate we have to pay it with Magic or power, 1 level 9 power spells worth.
Once past we hit room one.
The Dragon room, room 1:
This vast space has no floor, all thing in it must fly or have a means to keep air born.
The plane is a block on all magic/powers with the LAWFUL or GOOD descriptors.
The room is full of think mist.
In this room awaits 5 Dragons, each will attack on site and each has the Advanced temple. +4 all stats +2NA
All Buffed as they had time as he players came in, plane time stop triggered by the gate way in.
Once ALL 5 dragons are dead, there heads must Be placed in a line to revival the gate way to door NO2 and Room NO2
This door wants a hand from one of the players, they will have to place it in he mouth of the door. Which takes and a poisons* the player, then it opens.
Fort save *DC50 [Saves x3] Three round or -1d8 Con per round,
So that is room one, next player, what is in room 2?
GM gets to fill the last room, where the Demon is hiding.
I have played in some mad level games, with all manner of things.
So I set you all a challenge,
No Epic or Mythic nasty-ness.
Can you build a changeling bad as Big-bad for this party,
CR120 as your pool.
That could be one mad bad a*s at CL 120 or lots of bads added up.
Take your pick, the The Objective it to make a challenge for the party, not a 'Rock Falls you all die' Big bad etc.
It/they can have levels, It can have templates, monster classes
No 3ed party stuff, same sources as us.
If you wish you can add in a bit of plot, a Mcguffin we need, one we have to take alive, the holy book. Artefact, or save the city.
You name it, Points for
-: Invention [out of 10]
-: Creativity [out of 10]
-: Bad aasness [out of 10]
-: challenge [out of 10]
Any lurkers You can offer up as well.
Put your challenge under Spoiler once you think its ready to post here.
Deadline is 12 days say, we can always extend that.
Once we have one we like we ask the GM to fit in it.
This is where your finding it hard to get your head around this, I can see. But look at the Class description, its right there..
Telepathy
Telepathy Discipline
A psion who chooses the discipline of telepathy is known as a telepath. He is the master of powers that allow mental contact and control of other sentient creatures. A telepath can deceive or destroy the minds of his enemies with ease.
It means that a Telepath can stand in a room, and at our level can hide what they are doing with a concentration roll and bard mind. I'm sorry your finding this hard but its very simple, Telepaths CAN gain power over others mentally with out being detached.
And more every Psionic/Magic game I have ever played in [A lot as Psionics is my thing] They have ALL kept casting as casting and Manifesting as Manifesting JUST as they are, with out the need to add needless complexity. Let me tell you about this complexity, A telepath can use is psicystal to manifest power. There is NO need to change who psionic Manifestation work.
And there are FEATS for an Enchanter so he can do cast as a telepath, Silent and still spell, Eschew Materials, I have Seen PCs built with a GM ok to just run up to a guy and cast Dominate Peron without anybody in the room noticing. If you have a beef with the magic system fine, but your pushing this and making the game not fun.
If your insistent on fundamentally changing what a telepath is and can do, adding unneeded complexity to transparency, then you will have broken my PC for me. I am sorry but that is how it feels.
Not at all, it brakes the Telepath PC if you do that, No where below [Combining Psionic and Magical Effects] dos it talk about Powers being 'CAST' in the same way as spells OR Spells being manifested in the same way as powers. For a very good resin, it would me a GMs nightmare. So there is no need for any kind of GM interpretation, the transparency rules apply's to 'Effects' of Powers and sells and how those effects work with each other it saying nothing about who Think are cast or manifested. If we do as you suggest. There is a whole load of cross rules, Like 'Addressing Psionic items, scribing scrolls , SU and Ex stuff. That will ALL need both rules to magnification or casting rules and that is a mine field they know about so they left casting/manifesting as is for both magic/Psionics.
I'm sorry but it adds nothing but complexity, and it brakes a whole Psionic class. SO for me sorry there is no need and it would brake game.
Combining Psionic and Magical Effects:
The default rule for the interaction of psionics and magic is simple: powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability. This is known as psionics–magic transparency.
Psionics–Magic Transparency: Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics. When the rule about psionics–magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.
Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)
All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.
The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Spellcraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura), while detect psionics detects spells, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Spellcraft check is necessary to identify the school of magic).
Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.
Unless specifically mentioned in a power’s description, a power cannot be counterspelled when it is being manifested, nor can powers be used to counterspell a spell as it is being cast. Unless specifically stated otherwise, feats such as metamagic feats that specifically affect spells do not affect powers, and feats such as metapsionic feats that specifically affect powers do not affect spells.
Powers or psionic effects usually work as described no matter how many other powers, psionic effects, spells, or magical effects happen to be operating in the same area or on the same recipient. Except in special cases, a power does not affect the way another power or spell operates. Whenever a power has a specific effect on other powers or spells, the power description explains the effect (and vice versa for spells that affect powers). Several other general rules apply when powers, spells, magical effects, or psionic effects operate in the same place. powers that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don’t stack even if they come from different powers, or one from a power and one from a spell. You use whichever bonus gives you the better result.
Different Bonus Types: The bonuses or penalties from two different powers, or a power and a spell, stack if the effects are of different types. A bonus that isn’t named (just a “+2 bonus” rather than a “+2 insight bonus”) stacks with any bonus.
Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more similar or identical effects are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies. If one power or spell is dispelled or its duration runs out, the other power or spell remains in effect (assuming its duration has not yet expired).
Same Effect with Differing Results: The same power or spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. The last effect in a series trumps the others. None of the previous spells or powers are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell or power in the series lasts.
One Effect Makes Another Irrelevant: Sometimes, a power can render another power irrelevant.
Multiple Mental Control Effects: Sometimes psionic or magical effects that establish mental control render one another irrelevant. Mental controls that don’t remove the recipient’s ability to act usually do not interfere with one another, though one may modify another. If a creature is under the control of two or more creatures, it tends to obey each to the best of its ability, and to the extent of the control each effect allows. If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys.
Powers and spells with opposite effects apply normally, with all bonuses, penalties, or changes accruing in the order that they apply. Some powers and spells negate or counter each other. This is a special effect that is noted in a power’s or spell’s description.
Instantaneous Effects: Two or more magical or psionic effects with instantaneous durations work cumulatively when they affect the same object, place, or creature.
Hi I made an acount on here and I have been locked out of it for a while.
The Email address I used is now dead and I cant reset the password as I cant get an email from it.
Any one know how I can get that fixed.
Yes I know I posted under this one, when I got locked out I made a new account, but my old one is linked to my Pathfinder society PCs
I thought you had to have an ideology or abstract idea, are you basically saying your PC thinks of itself as Divine, or some other from if Divine power giving power hehe cool idea.
ON THE GAME, JUST MY THOUGHTS ON WHERE WE COULD GO.
Something to think on about our game here.
For the game what I would really like to see if we as a group, players and GMs can get to Level 30th+ level Epic, 10th level Mythic fighting gods. Just making our PCs was epic, then getting any kind of fight to work the system will take a LOT of work from us the players and the GMS.
Pulling punches may be part of this game just to keep it working without braking the system. To that end I like what I have seen of the players PCs, none has gone to far. I am and will limit my PC it keep the game flowing. There will be a lot of talking to the two gms and asking them for what works for them as well.
Why?,
cuz its never been done before on PAIZO, there are high level games but nothing like taking on the gods at mad levels of power.
Because my fellow players , we would be rock stars on here for just getting a game at that level close to working, and where we have gone others will follow.
So drop that ego at the door, look at what can be done to keep the game flowing over showing off your PC build [points finger at self here] and lets do this.
the norm on here has always been ::[][/]:: if you look around you will see it.
Its a kind of convention now, Sundakan I have been in game debates where all manner of ways to do it have popped up.
I have seen {"Hello"} #"Hello"# and more TP "Hello"
If you want us to use a non Paizo standard I think that's going to be a hard sell.
my worry is the magics that specifically, hurt, attack and control undead. Yes I know there are ones for living beings, its just offering Unlife has real bad cultural ramifications. Undead apocalypse comes to mind, thats with out the fact our undead will have an automatic unlife supporting link to the negative energy plane. If we cut the links to the other planes that may undo all our work.
My point is, We want to offer followers a living life just like their old one.
My thinking is we make something new, in that way it may not fall under any god, some magic/tech hybrid that can make a cloned body, I have no idea how to get a soul to 'jump' to this now body in place of death.
In meta game land, this could mean loss of levels, but personality intact. Not as strong a resurrection, but not an undead unlife.
@gods noticing us after Starstone: perhaps we could attempt to only get one of us noticed by them? I think I could pull the "poster boy" for our operation, posing as a deity that wants to actually be a deity of stuff, while we continue our plans behind the scenes. Besides, no deity wants to be the one that takes action against another actual deity.
The test says they come out not gods but Demi-gods, in some PF works,
If we are ALL going to be mythic I really think for game play and fun
all the PCs need to do the test. I really want my PC to do it as well.
Once done even if they notice us we can LIE to them, in this way we can ramp up the gaming v Big bad's over time. AT some point they will clock on to what we are doing but my hope is that by then we are at a power level and critical mass souls wise to get that last fight to a win.
We may even get some gods to convert to our point of view.
As for starting trouble 1st. sounds good to me.
Ozil wrote:
I like where this is going but to be clear,....
We commandeer them to what purpose?
--Pretend to be Szuriel in the flesh and lead them, with other Szuriel cult branches we commandeer, against the real Szuriel in Abaddon.
--Then kill her and take her place.
--Then use that guise to be our "cover" when we start a new religion on the Prime Material? So the gods will blame the Daemons when many souls stop going to the Outer Planes.
Or,... are we commandeering them to lead them to a new "religion" -- our religion -- and we kill Szuriel as one of the final steps of converting her cultists to us.
.... And blame it on the Demons.
Asked the very same thing some post back.
Convert, kill or copy, my vote is copy and lead them to a new path.
PS~:
I am going to make this the only game I am playing in, to fully enjoy this. Level 20s + are rare and for me I need to put the time in so as to get the best. I am GMing a game on here and will keep that up, I like my players. But I just wanted to say I really want this to work.
It has my vote, Just because I want her to show up looking like this.
Also it give the GM a great setting to test each of our PCs individual and as a group and find out of they are worthy. IF we are going to bring in a new Epoch I can think of now better Epic/Mythic way to start.
Yep, I agree "a huge sandbox is part of the appeal for this game but its tricky, as we all have ideas we need common ground in the Sand box, or one pushes one way and the others say, old on. We back track and soon that is all we keep doing.
I for one would like my PC with the rest to try the Starstone test, The whole lot of us at once, that would be so epic** but that can come after we get our new faith/fake Daemon uprising on Abaddon, so you have to let us know what's going on there. Ozil has Skill Number is the 60/70+ he will know, but we as players don't [As has been said before.] We are really reliant on you to sheered us in the way our PCs would know to go.
Hope you get where we are coming from GM, a heads up and we can get started.
**My idea is, come out the other end Demi-god mythic power level as an idea in place of Epic, of which Pathfinder is short on, that would set us up for some lower god-like bashing later, As for what she would be as a God-like, well the 1st AI god for one, self powered, no souls needed.
She would join the ranks of the God-like AIs that made her, but one step on. Her realm would be inhabited by Advanced AIs/Drones/Androids/Elans/Constructs the mechanical soulless. Would be a load of fun to make later.
A test of the starstone module is probably the most obvious epic-level adventure we could do for Golarion. If (when) we do this adventure, there's a VERY GOOD chance that it'll involve some sort of additional storyline over and above "So the PCs want to become gods?" but will also ultimately give the GM and the players the chance to do that; to have their PCs become deities after they handle the menace facing the Starstone Cathedral or whatever.
But yeah... this is still quite a long way off. I'd love to do something with this eventually, but we've got a lot of other things to do first. Like, say, figure out how epic-level play works.
We could as some one said, try the test, we could set out to seek Mythic state so as to be ready. Starting at 20th that is about the best way to go next, then when we feel we are ready take the test.
I'll go with that, because he also said something very interesting.
On the Ask James thread, when I posted there as well. Not a good Idea by the way to PM and post on thread, Me bad, will not be doing that again.
"Other worlds may have different deities of death and whatnot, but in canonical Golarion... Pharasma's the one who judges all the souls themselves when they reach the Boneyard."
Which is kind of logical, and makes it so that local pantheons of gods then work with greater gods, Pharasma be a rocking hard Greater god. So the gods of each system rule and feed into some Uber powerful gods at a Cosmic [Pathfinder multiverse level.
So "Blame Abaddon for stealing too many souls" it is then.
The Voice of the Pathfinder god has spoken V PM, and interesting it is to.
"Pharasma judges all souls in the multiverse. Earth is in the multiverse. Therefore, yes, she judges souls from Earth."
"At least, that's canon for Golarion as published. How it works in your game is up to your GM. And how it works in real life is unlikely to ever be discovered."
So there you have it from James Jacobs the Creative Director himself.
I'm wrong about Pharasma judges all souls [Pathfinder Earth and other worlds] but right there is a pathfinder multiverse.
What form that takes is up to the GM if there is one at all.
His game his rules.
So with this and the GMs post, lets go get Pharasma!
Because there Local and our problem, that is all we really need to know.
I made the mistake of expanding it a wee bit to much. I am sorry guys for that. Bad Panic, bad.
I asked James and waiting on what he says.
My feeling is that you could say that there is a Metaphysical cosmological constant that souls pass on v Judgment, that this constant has a vast number of names and local personifications. On Golarion its taken the form of Pharasma, on earth another form. In fact more than one, other worlds other forms.
So our fight is in fact to change that Metaphysical cosmological constant with a new form, or even remove the need for it.
Nar I don't buy that leap at all, I can see a local god, with in a system saying that, but a few says talking to a ghost from a technological world would have advanced tech on Golarion or any world.
You would have Knowledge bleed all over the place. So now you have to fix that and things get even more messy than my solution.
Also its an Alt earth where the gods or earth are real, even baba Yaga.
So that again gets us back to the Multiverse idea.
You know if we where playing AMBER RPG or Lords of Gossamer and Shadow RPG this would be so much simpler.
I can see how you would want that, its a simplistic way of pushing all but a very basic idea of one belief systems gods on to the cosmos.
But that is misrepresenting The ENORMOUS universe, hear me out, before you dismiss what I am saying.
How about we look at it as 'Pantheon Beliefs' each having areas in the Multiverse. Beings that reach a power level to be called Gods, do so locally and and warp reality. They have zones of control, Lands, continents, worlds, systems etc. This then lets us have a richer view of how god-likes inter play, in the ENORMOUS Multiverse. Over lapping 'Pantheon Beliefs' dos allow each to have there own setting.
System Lords:
My view is that the gods we are dealing with are like stargates System Lords, the locals call them gods, they have a far reach but there one of may kinds of gods of greater or lessor forms in a reach and complex cosmos. If you want to cut that down to Just them, then we taking away a few followers on a few worlds want do much, they will have 1000s of other worlds to pull power form. But of we can get shift in thinking for the local 'Pantheon' then we can force them out one systems/realm at a time. Thing of the lady of Pain in SIGIL, any god that shows up in the Ladys realm is toast. They have no power there.
My PC:
My PC is from Androffa, Androffa also suffered an ancient cataclysm. Compared to Earthfall, Androffa's apocalypse led not to a dark age and the ascension of mortals to godhood, but rather the rise of technology and widespread disbelief in all gods. Later after one of its star craft crashed on Golarion, the Golarion gods and others forms of 'Divinity' showed up and attacked it. But some got away, they banded with others and still seek to brake the hold of the god-likes. And that is what they are. They FORCED Divinity Androffa, Souls before then did no Exist. No judged by Pharasma or any other god like being.
Getting rid of gods:
The only thing we need is that gods have a means to power there divinity. Most V souls but not all. In this way we just fine that means and remove access to it or destroy it.
Earth:
Also where dos it says souls from EARTH get judged by Pharasma? Was that something you added, cus I have never seen that printed in cannon anywhere. My thinking is Paizo as a business would never print that. Way to much chance of Alienating any customer with faith. But a Multiverse Earth, that would be fine. Alt-Earth and of thing.
Just wanted to add, the name the game is
"Dawn of the material plane"
The world view for the setting I have offered can fit in with both views of the gods local.
They could have control of a kind of world/system sized Demi-plane that is 'Nested' in the prime plane. From the inside it looks like the cosmos as a whole can be changed, as the relative view out works V a filter of perspective crafted by the gods who control that world/system sized Demi-plane. But there is a greater prime plane with 10000s of pocket realms 'Nested'.
My feeling is that some gods can PULL there 'Nested' worlds unto a twisted local from of physics and rules, where all bets of are off.
But to push one such a 'Nested' world/s back fully into the prime would lock them to the grater rules of the prime.
Magic is not real, not for us in the real world, its something that is made up for the story's we like to tell each other.
But of beings of a power level like a god, they can warp the local Physics and natural rules so that magic and anything is possible with in their area of influence.
If you feel as players you want your gods to have control over the greater cosmos, then I will have to go with the collective view on this for the story we seek to tell, but it would be nice to have a bigger picture to expand into. That is all I was offering.
Seriously though, why would we be going with "the gods are meaningless on a cosmic scale, black holes are the big danger"? If that's the case, what are we even doing here?
Cosmology is like that, sorry but I wanted to being up a point about scale.
Sundakan wrote:
The entire point of this campaign is that the gods have massive influence over the entire universe/multiverse (Golarion, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, etc.), and we want to put a stop to it.
If that's not true the entire campaign plot is moot.
Ven'atorix wrote:
Yeah, not really sure why you brought up the "monsters in the stars" angle...it doesn't make sense.
Just because the Local gods are not the biggest fish in the tank, do's not moot the game. They still have local power over souls, life and death. Its just the PCs now know there is more out there, a bigger game table, with if they look for it help if they can find it.
I wanted to expand the playing field. What you asking is that we limit what we can do to just us, with nothing bigger to be espied to.
How you get that help and what it will do I have no idea.
But some may come once we get the ball rolling.
why do this, well logically what she said was true. Think about it, they have local power only but its still a level of oppressive power.out on the void, yes, the greater outer gods. O they may SAY they have power over the whole cosmos but they say a lot of things that are not true, why? to keep faith going thats way, who's going to follow a god that says, "I'm the God of ALL! well when I say all I mean the local cosmological systems and a few worlds." no they want to have good PR so they Jump the Shark and the faithful suck it up. If we want to form a counter faith we need to know things the gods what to hide.
But lets take your view, of they are to top of the pile. If they ARE ubiquitous cosmos wide, there would be a version of each god on Billions upon billions of worlds, so what gos off on one little mud ball of a world counting to count for an infinitesimal part of the whole. Who many world have a cosmos ending Beasty at it core and on some things would have gone bad, if not then nothing CAN be changed and where back to pointless.
My PC has the view the very much is a point, to free the enslaved, small pocket or cosmos wide, there is a morality behind this. Free the enslaved pocket of humanity/other races being lorded over by a group of Amoral duplicitous a-holes playing at gods.
But this dos not exclude the local gods relatively portraying themselves as cosmically significant and to the locals they may well be, pulling worlds even systems into pocket Dimensions just as the players are sitting in one now. A god powered Demi-plan may be a lot bigger, and linked.
I am just trying to place some logic with in a frame work.
GM i think that our pcs have spent a lot of time researching how to take on the gods, could you let us know if the are powered by souls and can our plan work?
For Sal Da Qill her makers where form the Technologically advanced world of Androffa, a bunch of massive star ships with AI's at god level left that world some 60,000 years ago, joining a greater group out in the cosmos. What is key to her is that with in pathfinder the 'Divinity' showed up on Androffa, dropping healers and wise linked to gods into nation states and it all went very bad as a scientific culture tried its best to understand god-lings sent to demand worship of 'Divinity' when the AI Minds, Androids and Androffa humans told them in no uncertain terms to go **** themselves, they wasted the planet and repopulated with lower beings that WOULD do there bedding. Needless to say those IA ship minds felt that was a bit off and spent the time after that working where every they can to **** 'Divinity' up.
This is a pathfinder setting and has the most NOT all god-likes seeking some from of faith linked to them.
We are making big jumps here but as the GM has no really filled things out yet, the game may have hit a stall point until we get feed back.
I have been thinking of ways we as 20th can play this, so the players have a good time and can show off what they can do.
My feeling is it would be cool if we all set off to pick a place to start and Anti-Godlike faith and report back telling how that went.
mean some nice writing from us and thinking of ways to form our anti god-like cults. PbP is one of the few game platforms where we can do that with ease.
