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Just seeking some clarification on these feats.

Ancestral Longevity - I original thought that it meant that each day you can pick a skill and become trained in that skill, so you could change the skill every day. Considering how Expert and Universal Longevity work, I now take it to mean that when you select the Ancestral Longevity feat you also select a single skill to which it applies. In effect it gives one extra trained skill with limitations (not counting as a prerequisite).

Expert Longevity - First paragraph, fine: when you select this feat you pick a skill in which you are trained. During your daily preparations you become expert in that one skill (and trained in you Ancestral Longevity skill). All good.
Second paragraph - so you can retrain a skill increase. Does that mean it can't be used on any skill that you had at 1st level? For example, if a character is trained in Arcana at 1st level then they can't become untrained in Arcana to become trained in their Ancestral Longevity skill by retraining. That seems odd, and also means you need to keep track of initial skills vs skill increases.
Also, and it doesn't say it, I assume that if you do retrain, then you need to select a new skill that will apply to the relevant feat, now that you are actually trained (or expert) in the skill that was attached to the feat.


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Kingmaker - you may be a fighter or a wizard or a rogue, but what you really want to be is a town planner.

Rise of the Runelords - the adventure path with the misleading plural in the title.

Jade Regent - walk half way across the planet literally the level before you could teleport there.

Serpent's Skull - It's a lot like Savage Tide.


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I liked the alternatives offered in Pathfinder Unchained as relating to disease and poison. However the progress of disease in the system has no theoretical limit to the number of saving throws that might be required. You could in theory be bouncing around between Healthy and Death literally forever.

You could just include a maximum duration at which point the affliction ends, which is how poisons work. This is more or less what I've done, although I've added a few bells and whistles. The system uses the Unchained system physical and mental disease tracks but resolves the progress of the disease differently.

DISEASE

When a character is exposed to a disease and fails the initial saving throw, they enter the first phase of the disease. The three phases are: Incubation, Acute and Convalescence. The character begins at Latent/Carrier on the disease track.

Cure describes the ways in which the disease might be cured. If a disease is cured magically then the character immediately enter the Convalescence phase, and the saving throw normally made at the end of the Acute phase is considered to have been successful (see below).

The Incubation section describes the Duration of the phase, and the Effect of the phase, including the number of steps down the disease track the character progresses. Steps down the disease track should be divided evenly across the duration of the phase. Any other effects occur at the start of the phase. It also includes the effect of a successful Heal check (at the DC of the disease). The healer must spend a total of two hours tending to the patient over the course of the incubation phase to make the check. If the healer spends at least one hour but less than two, they can make the check at a -4 penalty.

At the end of the incubation phase the character makes a saving throw. On a failed save the character enters the Acute phase. On a successful save the character throws off the worst of the disease and enters the Convalescence phase. They must immediately make another saving throw to determine the progress of the convalescence phase. If the saving throw is a natural 1, then the character will relapse without the aid of a healer.

The Acute section describes the Duration of the phase, and the Effect of the phase, including the number of steps down the disease track the character progresses. Steps down the disease track should be divided evenly across the duration of the phase. Any other effects occur at the start of the phase. It also includes the effect of a successful Heal check (at the DC of the disease). The healer must spend a total of four hours tending to the patient over the course of the acute phase to make the check. If the healer spends at least two hours but less than four, they can make the check at a -4 penalty.

At the end of the acute phase the character makes a saving throw. The success or failure of the save determines the progress of the convalescence phase. If the saving throw is a natural 1, then the character will relapse without the aid of a healer.

The Convalescence section describes the Duration of the phase for a successful and a failed saving throw (if the disease is cured magically then the saving throw is automatically successful), which includes the rate at which the character’s condition climbs the disease track, and the Effect of the phase for a successful and a failed saving throw. It also includes the effect of a successful Heal check (at the DC of the disease). The healer must spend a total of one hour tending to the patient over the course of the convalescence phase to make the check. If the healer spends at least thirty minutes but less than one hour, they can make the check at a -4 penalty.

The Relapse section gives the stage on the disease track at which the relapse occurs. The character enters the acute phase. At the end of this acute phase the character makes a saving throw to determine the progress of the convalescence phase. A character will only relapse once (unless the DM decides otherwise) even if they roll a second natural 1.

BLINDING SICKNESS
Type disease, ingested; Save Fort DC 16; Track physical; Cure magical, natural
Incubation Duration 4 days; Effect 2 steps; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the incubation phase
Acute Duration 4 days; Effect 2 steps and permanently blinded; Heal blinded while in acute phase and permanently blinded in only one eye
Convalescence Duration Success - 2 days/step to Healthy, or Fail - 4 days/step to Healthy; Effect total bed rest halves duration; Heal prevents relapse
Relapse Weakened

BUBONIC PLAGUE
Type disease, injury or inhaled; Save Fort DC 17; Track physical; Cure magical, natural
Incubation Duration 3 days; Effect 3 steps; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the incubation phase
Acute Duration 6 days; Effect 3 steps; Heal victim may make an extra saving throw, success arrests disease at Comatose stage
Convalescence Duration Success - 2 days/step to Healthy, or Fail - 4 days/step to Healthy; Effect total bed rest halves duration; Heal prevents relapse
Relapse Impaired

CACKLE FEVER
Type disease, inhaled; Save Fort DC 16; Track mental; Cure magical, natural
Incubation Duration 4 days; Effect 2 steps; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the incubation phase
Acute Duration 4 days; Effect 4 steps; Heal victim may make an extra saving throw, success arrests disease at Comatose stage
Convalescence Duration Success - 2 days/step to Healthy, or Fail - 4 days/step to Healthy; Effect total bed rest halves duration; Heal prevents relapse
Relapse Weakened

DEMENTIA DUST
Type disease, inhaled; Save Fort DC 14; Track mental; Cure magical, natural
Incubation Duration 2 weeks; Effect 2 steps; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the incubation phase
Acute Duration 3 weeks; Effect 3 steps and after reaching Deranged step victim permanently deranged until receive greater restoration or heal; Heal victim may make an extra saving throw, success not permanently deranged
Convalescence Duration Success - 2 days/step to Healthy, or Fail - 4 days/step to Healthy; Effect total bed rest halves duration; Heal prevents relapse
Relapse Weakened

DEMON FEVER
Type disease, injury; Save Fort DC 18; Track physical; Cure magical, natural
Incubation Duration 3 days; Effect 3 steps; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the incubation phase
Acute Duration 3 days; Effect 3 steps and victim is permanently weakened until receive heal or restoration; Heal victim may make two extra saving throws, first success arrests disease at Comatose stage, second success weakness not permanent
Convalescence Duration Success - 2 days/step to Healthy, or Fail - 4 days/step to Healthy; Effect total bed rest halves duration; Heal halves duration (cumulative with bed rest)
Relapse no relapse

DEVIL CHILLS
Type disease, injury; Save Fort DC 14; Track physical; Cure magical, natural
Incubation Duration 3 days; Effect 3 steps and -4 penalty on saving throw ending the incubation phase; Heal victim may make saving throw ending the incubation phase without penalty
Acute Duration 3 days; Effect 3 steps; Heal victim may make an extra saving throw, success arrests disease at Comatose stage
Convalescence Duration Success - 2 days/step to Healthy, or Fail - 4 days/step to Healthy; Effect Success - total bed rest halves duration, or Fail - total bed rest halves duration and relapse will occur; Heal victim may make extra saving throw to prevent relapse
Relapse Impaired

FILTH FEVER
Type disease, injury; Save Fort DC 12; Track physical; Cure magical, natural
Incubation Duration 4 days; Effect 2 steps; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the incubation phase
Acute Duration 6 days; Effect 3 steps; Heal victim may make an extra saving throw, success arrests disease at Disabled stage
Convalescence Duration Success - 1 day/step to Healthy, or Fail - 2 days/step to Healthy; Effect total bed rest halves duration; Heal halves duration (cumulative with bed rest)
Relapse no relapse

LEPROSY
Type disease, contact, inhaled or injury; Save Fort DC 12; Track physical (special); Cure magical only
Incubation Duration 1 week; Effect 1 step (Sluggish – as per Dexterity poison) and automatically fail saving throw ending the incubation phase; Heal n/a
Acute Duration 1 week; Effect 1 step (Stiffened – as per Dexterity poison) and cannot enter convalescence; Heal victim may make an extra saving throw, success arrests disease at Sluggish stage
Convalescence Duration n/a; Effect Even if the disease is removed with remove disease, condition does not improve without greater restoration or heal; Heal n/a
Relapse no relapse

MIND FIRE
Type disease, inhaled; Save Fort DC 12; Track mental; Cure magical, natural
Incubation Duration 4 days; Effect 2 steps; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the incubation phase
Acute Duration 4 days; Effect 2 steps and victim is permanently impaired until receive heal or restoration; Heal victim may make an extra saving throw, success prevents permanent impairment
Convalescence Duration Success - 1 day/step to Healthy, or Fail - 2 day/step to Healthy; Effect total bed rest halves duration; Heal prevents relapse
Relapse Weakened

MUMMY ROT
Type disease, injury; Save Fort DC 16; Track physical and mental (special); Cure remove curse and remove disease cast within 1 minute of each other
Incubation Duration 1 day; Effect 0 steps and successful saving throw ending the incubation phase takes disease back to start of the incubation phase; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the incubation phase
Acute Duration 1 day; Effect 1 step and saving throw ending the acute phase takes disease back to start of the incubation phase if successful or back to start of the acute phase if failed, victim suffers all penalties from both Physical and Mental disease tracks; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the acute phase
Convalescence Duration 2 days/step to Healthy; Effect total bed rest halves duration; Heal halves duration (cumulative with bed rest)
Relapse no relapse

RABIES
Type disease, injury; Save Fort DC 18; Track mental; Cure magical only
Incubation Duration 1 month; Effect 0 steps and automatically fail saving throw ending the incubation phase; Heal doubles duration of incubation phase
Acute Duration 6 weeks; Effect 6 steps; Heal doubles duration of acute phase
Convalescence Duration n/a; Effect Even if the disease is removed with remove disease, condition does not improve without greater restoration or heal; Heal n/a
Relapse no relapse

RED ACHE
Type disease, injury; Save Fort DC 15; Track physical; Cure magical, natural
Incubation Duration 6 days; Effect 2 steps; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the incubation phase
Acute Duration 4 days; Effect 2 steps; Heal victim may make an extra saving throw, success arrests disease at Disabled stage
Convalescence Duration Success - 1 day/step to Healthy, or Fail - 2 days/step to Healthy; Effect total bed rest halves duration; Heal prevents relapse
Relapse Weakened

SHAKES
Type disease, contact; Save Fort DC 13; Track physical; Cure magical, natural
Incubation Duration 2 days; Effect 2 steps; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the incubation phase
Acute Duration 2 weeks; Effect 2 steps and become permanently sluggish (as Dexterity poison track) until receive restoration; Heal victim may make an extra saving throw, success prevents permanent sluggishness
Convalescence Duration Success - 2 days/step to Healthy, or Fail - 4 days/step to Healthy; Effect total bed rest halves duration; Heal prevents relapse
Relapse Weakened

SLIMY DOOM
Type disease, contact; Save Fort DC 14; Track physical; Cure magical, natural
Incubation Duration 3 days; Effect 3 steps; Heal +4 competence bonus on saving throw ending the incubation phase
Acute Duration 3 days; Effect 3 steps and become permanently weakened until receive heal or restoration; Heal victim may make two extra saving throws, the first success arrests disease at comatose, the second success prevents permanent weakness
Convalescence Duration Success - 2 days/step to Healthy, or Fail - 4 days/step to Healthy; Effect total bed rest halves duration; Heal prevents relapse
Relapse Impaired


I ran AoW and luckily didn't have the problem of a still-kicking Dragotha at the end.

One possibility is that the party are aided by Lashonna. She still wants Dragotha destroyed and is probably disappointed that the party failed to do so. Her course of action may depend on whether the characters are aware of her loyalties, but she may be prepared to form an alliance of convenience with the party in order to take Dragotha down.

I could see the final encounter being Kyuss and Dragotha vs the party and Lashonna - until Dragotha falls, at which time Lashonna switches sides. Or, if the party is smart, they deal with Dragotha before the final encounter by luring him somewhere and destroying him, after which Lashonna perhaps retreats to the spire and is encountered as written.

As to Zosiel's Circlet, assuming Dragotha is not destroyed before the final encounter, destroying the negative energy device under the city seems like a suitably important event that might justify releasing the circlet's full potential.There was no inherent connection between the circlet and Dragotha such that his death was the only thing that could power it.

If you're concerned that the party can't deal with Dragotha without the Balakarde fragments, then perhaps his master (I can't remember his name as written; I called him Tenser in my game) followed in the party's wake into the Wormcrawl Fissure and collected the fragments. Or (more plausibly) as a final gift he provides the characters with some minor artefacts that will help against Dragotha - which are just re-skinned versions of the Balakarde fragments. The player's don't need to know that they missed something from the previous scenario.


Name: Kyuss
Class: God
Adventure: Dawn of a New Age
Cause of Death: Dawdling

I don't want to give too much away. Let's just say that the poor guy took over 1600 hp damage before he even cleared the monolith.


Jam Falcon wrote:
Ellizabella (Lizzy) has been an almost unstoppable force throughout the entire campaign, an artificer with defenses beyond most beings ability to bypass. Lashonna, knowing this, equipped herself and her three blessed angels with antimagic torcs (from Underdark). Despite her penchant for spellcasting, she realized that her best option was to disable all the items and engage in melee against a defenseless Lizzy. Along with a blessed angel and three vampires, Lashonna cornered Lizzy and her level was drained entire after a couple of rounds.

Technically, a vampire can't level drain in an anti-magic field, as energy drain is a supernatural ability.


Character: Sharlto.
Class: Paladin 18/Oracle 1/Holy Vindicator 1.
Adventure: Into the Wormcrawl Fissure.
Cause: Nonchalance. If you're in the Tabernacle of the Worm, it pays to cast death ward. Sharlto pushed through a wormdoor and was surprised by the 6 avolakia on the other side. How many enervations does it take to kill a 20th-level character? Turns out it's 9 (6 in the surprise round and, after he lost initiative on his first round, he was hit by 3 more).

Character: Sloane.
Class: Alchemist 10/Master Chymist 10.
Adventure: Into the Wormcrawl Fissure.
Cause: One bad roll. Having found the Book of Vile Darkness, Sloane had a quick peruse and failed the (fairly easy) Will save. He took some damage and thought nothing more of it, even after the wizard informed the party that the book can turn the reader evil.
The party continued adventuring and finally encountered Dragotha. After some dialogue we rolled initiative. When Sloane's turn came up, he declared that he would delay until some buff spell was cast. I then told him that he was in fact going to attack the party.
After I explained what had happened (evil book, you're evil, change sides, etc), he dropped Sharlto (see above) into negative hit points in one round. The rest of the party grabbed the unconscious paladin and teleported away, leaving Sloane to chat with Dragotha.
Shortly after, Sloane was transformed into a Favoured Spawn of Kyuss, which counts as dying in my book.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:

I've decided to run with your final draft, except leaving the Fear aura as-is and possibly taking away that nasty Grab ability (that's just mean! XD). I'm running with a large party, though, so we'll see.

One change I'm making is the surgery. I'm making the damage 1d4, forcing the subject to take no movement or standard actions for a turn, and leaving the option open for "brain surgery"—it'll probably inflict a lot of damage, but this party includes a chirurgeon and I think it should be an option. I'm thinking DC 30 and 10d6 damage, rendered to minimum by a chirurgeon's "Anaesthetic" ability—nicely complimenting the idea that only that archetype could possibly pull it off and keep the patient alive.

Plus, I like the idea of her trying to get the infected partymember to stand still.

Alchemist: "Dude, back down and let me get that worm out of you!"
Partymember: "Don't worry, it's gotta be 1d4+1 rounds until it reaches the brain and I bet he rolled below avera—AAUGH!"
Alchemist: "Dammit. I'll get the saw..."

...but then I tweaked it one last time. I changed the infestation as follows, with the new bit in bold.

Worm (Ex) – infestation – 1 worm; save Fort DC 15; onset immediate; frequency 1/round; effect 1 damage until fail 3 saves (if DR reduces damage to 0 does not count as failed save), on 4th and subsequent failed save take 1d2 Int damage; each additional infestation increases save DC by +1 (make one save only for all infestations) and damage or Int damage by +1; target dies when Int damage equals current Int

I found that it didn't really work trying to track multiple worms in a each target. One character had 1 worm the first round, 2 more the next; another character had 2 worms, then 1 more, then another one; trying to keep track of how many saves had been failed for each worm for each character, Aaargh!

Instead it's just how many worms are burrowing into you, regardless of when it happened, (increase DC and damage by 1 for each worm after the first) and how many times have you failed to save. Its not quite as realistic - after the character starts taking Int damage for the worms, then a worms that burrows into his hand immediately contributes to the Int damage - but it's a massive head-ache saver.


Yeah, I noticed that too. I kept the banded mail and changed his description to...

"This Grimlock’s body is a testament either to his madness or to his devotion. The symbol of Erythnul is carved into his shaved head, his teeth are filed to points, and preserved, cloudy, yellow eyes have been sewn into his eye sockets, granting him an unblinking and insane stare."


Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Incidentally, mummies do have a disadvantage thanks to their vulnerability to fire. But comparing the stats, I've gotta agree—spawn of Kyuss are ridiculously less powerful. Half the HP, dreadful AC, an arguably weaker aura power (though somewhat larger in area) and half as many hit dice. Their only edge of note is their Turn Resistance and the more immediate effects of the worm.

What if one were to just give them two slams, a 16 Charisma, and perhaps one extra hit die? Think that would do the trick?

Sorry, are you suggesting making those changes to the 3rd edition Spawn, or to my version of the Spawn? It probably wouldn't make my version over powered: 59 hp, +11 attack, average of 20 damage, DC 16 save against fear and worms. And as the creature that inspired the whole damn adventure path, it should probably be on the tough side of its challenge rating.

The Spawn of Kyuss was one of the first creatures I converted into Pathfinder when I started, so I spent a lot of time thinking about it and trying to make sure it was balanced. At this point I've converted creatures up to the Library of Last Resort, and now I just pump them out and don't sweat the details - I keep them in line with the Pathfinder monster creation guidelines and with what I feel is fair.


Steel_Wind wrote:

Practically speaking, my players had two party member who could cast burning hands. They used that spell to burn off the worms before they could burrow into the flesh on the next round. They also obtained a wand of burning hands as a "worm burner" to deal with the threat.

This tactic made the worms a mere minor nuisance.

That's the main reason that I changed the infestation to be more like rot grubs; if you fail the initial Reflex save the worm burrows immediately. That way it's not susceptible to a instantaneous area attack (like burning hands) because you have no line-of-effect to the worm. Instead, you have to apply flame in the first round after infestation directly to the spot where the worm burrowed in.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Ouch. Just tell the players that I tried. ;D

So there were 5 Spawn of Kyuss - I played out the spread of the infection at Blackwall as others have suggested. And the characters annihilated them.

It's a party of 5 characters (Alchemist, Inquisitor, Oracle, Ranger, Wizard) made with the 15-point buy, and they're pretty unstoppable. They took out Zyrxog without breaking a sweat - air-walking Inquisitor, flying Alchemist, everyone hasted, prayed, blessed, heroism, inspired by the Wizard's Bard cohort.


And this is probably the final version that I'll be running with in Encounter at Blackwall. The fear aura lasts longer (it's basically the Doom spell), Large targets are subject to the grab but don't get the grappled condition, I clarified how ongoing grappling exposes the target to more worms, and I added a Reflex save to shake off each worm.

*************************************************************************** *********************
SPAWN OF KYUSS (v3.0)

CR 5; Know religion DC 20; CE, medium, undead; Init +2; Senses darkvision 60ft, Perception +6; Aura fear; moderate chaos, moderate evil

DEFENCE
AC 17, touch 12, flat 15 (+2 Dex, +5 natural); HD 6d8+18; hp 45 (fast healing 5); Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +7; +2 vs channel energy; Defensive Abilities channel resistance +2; Immune bleed, death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep-effects, stunning, undead traits; Weakness curative transformation

OFFENSE
Spd 30ft; Melee slam +10 (1d6+7 plus worm plus grab plus Kyuss’ gift) OR melee touch +9 touch (worm); Ranged fling +6 ranged touch (worm); Space 5ft; Reach 5ft; Special Attacks create spawn, grab (Large)

STATISTICS
Abilities Str 20, Dex 14, Con -, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 15
Base Attack +4; CMB +9 (+10 with slam, +14 grapple with slam); CMD 21
Feats – Iron Will, Toughness, Weapon Focus (slam)
Skills – Acrobatics +2 (+10 jump), Climb +13, Perception +6, Stealth +9; Racial Modifiers - +8 Acrobatics when jumping; Languages - Flan

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Create Spawn (Su) – creature killed by Int damage rise as Spawn of Kyuss 1d6+4 rounds later (tiny creatures die, huge creatures become zombies); spawn not controlled by progenitor

Curative Transformation (Ex) – remove curse and remove disease (and similar effects) turn spawn into zombie on DC 16 caster level check

Fear Aura (Su) – continuous 30ft-radius effect; DC 15 Will save or shaken for 6 minutes; save also immune to that spawn’s aura for 24 hours; mind-affecting fear effect

Grab (Ex) - Large or smaller creature; Large creatures can be grabbed but don't gain the grappled condition; start grapple without provoking AoO; grapple check at -20 to not gain grappled condition

Kyuss’ Gift (Su) – disease – slam; save Fort DC 15; onset 1 day; frequency 1/day; effect 1d6 Con and 1d4 Wis (rotting flesh and dementia); cure 2 consecutive saves; healing magic only half effect on victim (remove disease works normally)

Worm (Ex) – infestation – 1 worm; save Fort DC 15; onset immediate; frequency 1/round; effect 1 damage until fail 3 saves (if DR reduces damage to 0 does not count as failed save), on 4th and subsequent failed save take 1d2 Int damage; target dies when Int damage equals current Int
- spawn’s slam, touch or fling expose to 1 worm; natural attacks and unarmed strikes against spawn expose to 1 worm; grapple expose to 1d3 worms (slam plus successful grab expose to 1d3+1 worms); successful maintain grapple expose to another 1d3 worms; DC 15 Ref save to shake off worm (one save per worm) before infestation begins; DR 1 or +5 natural armour renders immune
- remove curse or remove disease destroys all infestations; dispel evil or neutralise poison delays effect 10d6 minutes
- Heal check before begin doing Int damage; requires light slashing weapon and standard action; silver weapon gives +5 circumstance bonus to Heal check; DC 20 Heal removes one worm plus an additional worm for every 5 points check exceeds DC; inflicts 1d3 damage that cannot be reduced per worm removed
- application of flame to entry wound round after infestation destroys 1 worm and inflicts 1d6 damage to target; apply to 1 worm as standard action or to all worms on single target as full-round action (1d6 damage per worm destroyed)


Rynjin wrote:

But the thing is, it's not the spell that's broken, it's allowing something that was never intended within the rules. High level casters don't grow on trees, you know.

It very much depends on what you mean by "never intended within the rules". I don't want to put words in you mouth, but if you're saying that there is a rule that high-level NPC casters are never available to craft magic items - or that it is not intended that high-level NPC casters be available to craft magic items - then I would say that that is not in the Core book, nor in any of the supplements that I've read.

Quote:

Yes, the setting is the issue here.

It's all well and good to say something should be balanced for every game world, but that's simply not possible to do. Game worlds can be so varied that something that is somewhat balanced in the core game world can be massively OP in another (9 level casters in a low magic world, for example).

The point still stands that you must find a 20th level Druid willing to deal with you, and if your game world has them running around everywhere that's a problem with the world, not the Extract.

Or not a problem with the world as whole, but a problem with the world in relation to the Extract.

To my way of thinking, you have the elements backwards. We agree that the extract is not overpowered in setting A (minimum caster level) but it is overpowered in setting B (floating caster level) - even though the settings don't change the maths, as I pointed out before. I'd argue that it is not that setting B is broken, but rather that setting A prevents the broken extract from being overpowered. and that the reason the extract is broken is because it violates one of the core building principles of spells in Pathfinder and D&D generally - that the effect is proportionate to the level of the one who casts the spell. Instead it is proportionate to a factor extrinsic to the spell or the caster - the caster level of the potion.

Also, off-hand, I cannot think of another spell that would be so wildly overpowered in a different setting (a setting that does not change the maths of the system).

Quote:
There's exactly ONE city in Golarion I know of that has even 18th level casters (Absalom). Everywhere else is significantly lower.
Quote:
The point still stands that you must find a 20th level Druid willing to deal with you, and if your game world has them running around everywhere that's a problem with the world, not the Extract.

So - hypothetical question - if you were DM'ing a game set in Golarion, and the player of a 4th-level alchemist wanted to find a high-level druid and perform some quest for said druid in exchange for the crafting of the potion - and if they can't find a 20th-level caster they'll look for a 16th-level or 12th-level one - how would you handle it?


Ghost of Vhecker wrote:

The problem occurs in a campaign where there is access to high level casters.

I'm playing in campaign in question, and we are about to travel to Greyhawk - plenty of accessible high level casters about. Even if finding 20th level boffins happy make you a potion may still be problematic, 12-16 level casters is certainly likely.

If the player is happy to part with the cash (and why wouldn't he?), there will be a significant power leap in his abilities compared to the rest of the party.

However, I did notice in another thread on the much the same topic topic; Alchemical Allocation broken?
That Sean K Reynolds chimed in to state the following..

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

The keys to this problem are the PFS potion rules and the Accelerated Drinker trait.

As others have stated, PFS rules say all store-bought potions function at the minimum caster level.

So it seems to me the original intent - at least in Pathfinder Society play - is for potions to function and minimum caster level, or at worst have fellow party members of make said items for you at a higher (but not a game breaking) level for you.

I think Tendentious 'fix' seems quite reasonable for non PFS play - where there is potential in some campaign environments to have abuse of this power.

And I do even wonder if it might be advisable to go further, and have the spell itself fixed to say 'all potion effects function at minimum caster level' within the description - if that indeed was SKR's intent...

I see you're doing your research for that email I sent you. See you at K's on Wednesday.


Quote:
Where is he getting a CL 20 potion in the first place? Where do you find these level 20 casters at all, much less ones willing to make a potion for some random guy?

In my own campaign, anything that isn't straight from the core book is not available for general purchase. A potion of more than minimum caster level must be crafted or quested for. But given the way the extract currently works, there is a lot of incentive for a player to want to track down a high level caster and perform some quest or task in exchange for said caster crafting the potion.

Obviously, I can exercise DM fiat and declare that no 20th-level druid is willing or available to do so. But to do so is not what I'd considered the best form of DM-ing, and is a basic admission that - yes, the spell is broken, but I'm going to prevent players from exploiting it. And then the player says "fine, I'll find a 16th-level druid and get a +4 potion of Greater Magic Fang instead. No? What about a 12th-level druid?"

Essentially, I shouldn't need extrinsic considerations (can the player acquire the right potion) to protect or justify an intrinsically broken extract. Why not just have a extract that isn't intrinsically broken?

Think of it this way; ideally, the extract should be "not-broken" in all settings and campaigns. Suppose you're running a setting full of high level casters, many of whom craft items. Nothing about the setting changes how the numbers work. A 20th-level potion of Greater Magic Fang still costs 3000gp and is still an expendable item, and a low-level character having +5 magic attack/damage is still overpowered, regardless of the number of 20th-level druids there are wandering around. In such a setting, a 20th-level potion might be readily available for anyone with the cash. If the alchemist then breaks game balance with Alchemical Allocation, are we saying that it's the setting that's wrong rather than the extract?

Quote:
I don't think this issue is an issue at all with that in mind. No need to change how the extract works, especially not in a way that fundamentally changes its use. Might as well make a new extract in that case.

I don't agree that it fundamentally changes its use. The main effect of either version of the extract is that it allows you to reuse an expendable item. The original version allows the use of an expendable item of any caster level. The amended version allows the use of an expendable item but fixes the caster level at the alchemist's own level.


This issue is about to rear its head in a campaign I'm running, so I thought i'd see what people think. Here is Alchemical Allocation:

ALCHEMICAL ALLOCATION
School transmutation; Level alchemist 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components S
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 round
This extract causes a pale aura to emanate from your mouth. If you consume a potion or elixir on the round following the consumption of this extract, you can spit it back into its container as a free action. You gain all the benefits of the potion or elixir, but it is not consumed. You can only gain the benefits of one potion or elixir in this way per use of this extract.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, the spell allows an alchemist with natural attacks, for the one-time expenditure of 3000gp, to get the benefit of Greater Magic Fang at caster level 20 every day, regardless of his or her own level. If the alchemist burns three 2nd-level extracts each morning, he or she gets +5 attack and damage on bite and 2 claws for the next 20 hours.

The spell basically breaks the guideline that the power/effect of a spell (extract) is based on the caster level of the person casting the spell. In effect, you have a 2nd level spell with a 3000gp focus that grants +5 attack/damage for 20 hours. Of course it's worse than that because, for example, the same spell with a 900gp focus can give you a +5 deflection bonus to AC for 18 minutes (shield of faith), or with an 1100gp focus can give you 30 points of fire resistance (resist energy).

The action economy - you have to cast the spell, draw the potion, quaff the potion, stow the potion - does mitigate the effect, but only in combat. In most cases any spell with a duration of minutes per level is cast before combat begins. And Greater Magic Fang was probably cast before the alchemist had breakfast that morning.

The correction I'm considering is simply that, when quaffed, the caster level of the potion's effect is equal to the alchemist's level. The effect of the spell on Elixirs doesn't change, as Elixirs are not level based. This would mean that the main benefit of the spell is that, with the one-time purchase of a potion, the alchemist can, in effect, cast spells that he or she wouldn't otherwise be able to cast. The effect of the potion would scale with the alchemist's level, and the alchemist would only need to acquire potions of the minimum caster level.

With this change, the alchemist can still quaff that potion of Greater Magic Fang (price 750gp) three times a day, but won't get the benefit of +5 attack/damage until he or she reaches 20th level - no-one else does, so I don't see why the alchemist should.

This change does mimic to some extent the alchemist Discovery Enhance Potion. I don't feel that the change I'm suggesting makes Enhance Potion redundant. If you want to use your extracts on something other then Alchemical Allocation then you still have your uses of Enhance Potion to improve those 1st-level cure light wound potions. Of course, a discovery like Extend Potion will synergise better with Alchemical Allocation, but then again it always has.

And, just to be clear, I wrote above that "the caster level of the potion's effect is equal to the alchemist's level" to show that the caster level of the potion itself doesn't change. A 1st-level potion remains a 1st-level potion after it is spat out.


blahpers wrote:
I wouldn't consider mud "water or similar liquid", so it would not be a valid target. Another GM might allow raising or lowering the water table.

I suppose the way I see it, the area is described as "water in a volume of blah blah blah". It doesn't say that the area of the spell can't contain other things (in the case of mud, it contains silt), but that the spell only affects the water in the area. In effect, you're not casting the spell on the mud; you're casting it on the water (which is mixed up with silt), which is why the spell drives away the water and leaves the silt behind.


Ipslore the Red wrote:

About the raising thing, it doesn't create new water, just like lowering doesn't actually destroy water. It's transmutation, not conjuration, so it's just moving existing water around. You probably could raise a thin film of water 14 feet, but it'd collapse immediately upon the end of the spell.

And the silt thing isn't exactly outside the normal application of Control Water. That's more or less exactly what it's for.

Good point about transmutation vs conjuration, which I hadn't considered. That basically answers my questions regarding casting Control water on Create Water (as you've outlined) or on ground water: if the DM allowed you to use Control Water in that way you could raise or lower the ground water available in the area of effect, which typically wouldn't be much - you'd end up with a few puddles on the surface.


So here is Control Water:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
CONTROL WATER
School transmutation [water]; Level cleric 4, druid 4, sorcerer/wizard 6
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (a pinch of dust for lower water or a drop of water for raise water)
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area water in a volume of 10 ft./level by 10 ft./level by 2 ft./level (S)
Duration 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw none; see text; Spell Resistance no
This spell has two different applications, both of which control water in different ways. The first version of this spell causes water in the area to swiftly evaporate or to sink into the ground below, lowering the water's depth. The second version causes the water to surge and rise, increasing its overall depth and possibly flooding nearby areas.

Lower Water: This causes water or similar liquid to reduce its depth by as much as 2 feet per caster level (to a minimum depth of 1 inch). The water is lowered within a squarish depression whose sides are up to caster level × 10 feet long. In extremely large and deep bodies of water, such as a deep ocean, the spell creates a whirlpool that sweeps ships and similar craft downward, putting them at risk and rendering them unable to leave by normal movement for the duration of the spell. When cast on water elementals and other water-based creatures, this spell acts as a slow spell (Will negates). The spell has no effect on other creatures.

Raise Water: This causes water or similar liquid to rise in height, just as the lower water version causes it to lower. Boats raised in this way slide down the sides of the hump that the spell creates. If the area affected by the spell includes riverbanks, a beach, or other land nearby, the water can spill over onto dry land.

With either version of this spell, you may reduce one horizontal dimension by half and double the other horizontal dimension to change the overall area of effect.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---

What would be the effect of casting Control Water on 10-foot deep mud? The spell description states the effect of the spell on water, but doesn't say much about the initial required state or condition of the water. Does it include mud? Ground water? The description does include the ambiguous phrase "water or similar liquid". What constitutes a "similar liquid"? Similar consistency, perhaps?

Suppose you cast Control Water on a room that's 10 feet deep in mud. A 7th-level caster can lower the water by 14 feet. If the mud is 10 feet deep, then you'd drive the water out, leaving (perhaps) 5 feet of silt behind. Alternately, if you raised the water by 14 feet, would you end up with 19 feet of muddy water (if you assume 5 feet of water plus 14 feet more, diluted by 5 feet of silt)?

Of course, if ground water is a legitimate target for the spell, then a caster would be able to create a massive flood on any open ground. A 7th-level caster would be able to raise a mass of water 70' by 70' by 14' (about half a million gallons) from any patch of moist earth - which is pretty much anywhere that isn't a desert.

As stated, their doesn't seem to be a minimum amount of water required to cast upon. Using Create Water, could you create a thin film of water across a stone floor, then use Control Water to add, in the case of our 7th-level caster, another 14 feet of depth?

My own inclination is that it's reasonable to use Control Water on mud - to convert it either to silt by lowering the water or to muddy water by raising the water. It's the sort of situation where inventive use of a spell outside of its normal application could reward a clever caster. I'd probably draw the line at raising ground water, or a film of Created Water.

Thanks for any input or suggestions.


I swapped the lurking strangler for a vargouille. The lurking strangler is a beholder-crafted creature - how did the Faceless One come to acquire it? It is of near animal intelligence, which doesn't make it a plausible scout. Also it needs to eat, and the nearby food fountain is covered with brown mold. Depending on how long the party takes to reach it, it may have been down there for many days.

The vargouille is the same CR (2), is an independent creature (so it's more reasonable that it has allied with the Faceless One), is moderately intelligent and, as an outsider, doesn't need to eat - it can wait down there indefinitely.


So having kicked it around a bit, streamlined it and incorporated the infestation rules, I figured that, rather than lowering the CR to match the stats, I'd bring the stats up to CR 5. I also lessened the fear effect from panicked to shaken. But mainly, I felt that the only thing scarier than a Spawn of Kyuss was a Spawn of Kyuss that gives you a big wormy hug!

Also, they don't speak common; they speak Flan. You figure that if you've had your brain eaten away, then it's the worms - passed on from one spawn to the next down the centuries in an unbroken chain from Kyuss himself - that are providing the linguistic ability.

SPAWN OF KYUSS (v2.0)

CR 5; Know religion DC 20; CE, medium, undead; Init +1; Senses darkvision 60ft, Perception +6; Aura fear; moderate chaos, moderate evil

DEFENCE
AC 17, touch 12, flat 15 (+2 Dex, +5 natural); HD 6d8+18; hp 45 (fast healing 5); Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +7; +2 vs channel energy; Defensive Abilities channel resistance +2; Immune bleed, death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep-effects, stunning, undead traits; Weakness curative transformation

OFFENSE
Spd 30ft; Melee slam +10 (1d6+7 plus worm plus grab plus Kyuss’ gift) OR melee touch +9 touch (worm); Ranged fling +6 ranged touch (worm); Space 5ft; Reach 5ft; Special Attacks create spawn, grab (Large)

STATISTICS
Abilities Str 20, Dex 14, Con -, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 15
Base Attack +4; CMB +9 (+10 with slam, +14 grapple with slam); CMD 21
Feats – Iron Will, Toughness, Weapon Focus (slam)
Skills – Acrobatics +2 (+10 jump), Climb +13, Perception +6, Stealth +9; Racial Modifiers - +8 Acrobatics when jumping; Languages - Flan

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Create Spawn (Su) – a creature killed by Int damage rise as Spawn of Kyuss 1d6+4 rounds later (tiny creatures die, huge creatures become zombies); spawn not controlled by progenitor

Curative Transformation (Ex) – remove curse and remove disease (and similar effects) turn spawn into zombie on DC 16 caster level check

Fear Aura (Su) – continuous 30ft-radius effect; DC 15 Will save or shaken for 1d6 rounds; save renders target also immune to that spawn’s aura for 24 hours; mind-affecting fear effect

Grab (Ex) - Large or smaller creature; start grapple without provoking AoO; grapple check at -20 to not gain grappled condition

Kyuss’ Gift (Su) – disease – slam; save Fort DC 15; onset 1 day; frequency 1/day; effect 1d6 Con and 1d4 Wis (rotting flesh and dementia); cure 2 consecutive saves; while suffering Kyuss' gift all healing magic has only half normal effect on the victim (remove disease works normally)

Worm (Ex) - living creatures only; infestation; save Fort DC 15; onset immediate; frequency 1/round; effect 1d3 damage until fail 3 saves (if DR reduces damage to 0 does not count as failed save for that round), then 1d2 Int damage; target dies when Int damage equals current Int
- spawn’s slam, touch or fling expose to 1 worm; natural attacks and unarmed strikes against spawn expose to 1 worm; grapple expose to 1d3 worms (slam plus successful grab expose to 1d3+1 worms); target with DR 3 of any kind (other than piercing or slashing) or +5 natural armour is immune to infestation
- remove curse or remove disease destroys all infestations (no check required); dispel evil or neutralise poison delays effect for 10d6 minutes
- Heal check made before a worm begins doing Int damage may end infestation; requires light slashing weapon and standard action; silver weapon gives +5 circumstance bonus to Heal check; DC 20 Heal removes one infestation plus an additional infestation for every 5 points check exceeds DC; inflicts 1d3 damage (that cannot be reduced) per infestation removed
- application of flame to entry wound in the round after infestation destroys 1 worm and inflicts 1d6 damage to target; apply to 1 worm as standard action or to all worms on single target as full-round action (1d6 damage per worm destroyed)


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I think the worms are such a terrifying threat (even if you're prepared) that they justify the CR 5. All mummies have is a little decay, but those worms can chew you up in ten seconds flat. There's not even any saving throw. Heck, if you don't get the cleric over in time, or he's outta remove disease, that's all she wrote.

True there is no save and, if the infestation passes a certain point, you're screwed if you don't have the right spells available.

But if none of the characters are using natural attacks, a single spawn can transfer, at best, a single worm to one target each round. The worm is completely vulnerable for a full round before it starts burrowing - plenty of time for a member of the party to neutralise it. Even once it starts burrowing, there are at least 2 rounds during which multiple characters can make Heal checks to attempt to neutralise it.
My impression of Pathfinder as compared to 3rd edition is that they attempted to move away from "glass cannons": giving creatures a devastating attack, making them otherwise weak and then estimating CR somewhere between the two. The Mind Flayer, which I had to re-write for AoW, is a good example - a devastating Mind Blast that takes half the party out in the first round, but with incredibly low defences and hp for a CR 8 creature.
With that ethos in mind, I rewrote the spawn to grant characters more options in dealing with the worm attack while at the same time beefing up the spawn overall.


In the Core Rulebook; "Environment" chapter; "Traps" section; "Sample Traps" sub-section:

LIGHTNING BOLT GALLERY TRAP CR 17
Type magic; Perception DC 29; Disable Device DC 29
EFFECTS
Trigger proximity (alarm); Duration 1d6 rounds; Reset none
Effect spell effect (heightened lighting bolt, 8d6 electricity damage, DC 16 Reflex save for half); multiple targets (all targets in a 60-ft.-square chamber)

The calculation doesn't seem to bear this trap out as CR 17.

Average damage: 28
Multiple Targets: x2
Average Duration: 3.5 rounds (x3.5)

Option 1: 28 x 2 x 3.5 = 196; CR modifier 20 (196/10 rounded to nearest); final CR 20 +1 (base) = 21
Option 2: (28 x 2) + (28 x 3.5) = 154; CR modifier 15 (154/10 rounded to nearest); final CR 15 + 1 (base) = 16
OPtion 3: 28 x 4.5 = 126 (in line with guideline that multiplying adds groups of 100%); CR modifier 13 (126/10 rounded to nearest); final CR 13 + 1 (base) = 14

So possibly the CR of the trap is incorrect.

Also, which is the correct method of calculating average damage when applying both the multiple target and average duration modifiers?


In the Core Rulebook; "Environment" chapter; "Traps" section; "Elements of a Trap" sub-section; "Effect" sub-sub-section:

Magic Device Traps: These traps produce the effects of any spells included in their construction, as described in the appropriate entries. If the spell in a magic device trap allows a saving throw, its save DC is (10 + spell level) × 1.5. Some spells make attack rolls instead.

The save DC should be 10 + (spell level x 1.5). All the example magical traps given have a save DC consistent with 10 + (spell level x 1.5).


I'd already posted this under "houserules" - I didn't realise that this message board was here.

Just hoping for some feedback. I'm converting Age of Worms to Pathfinder. Looking at the basic Spawn of Kyuss, I felt that they clearly were not CR 5, even with a fear aura, fast healing and their worm attack. Comparing Spawn to a Mummy, also CR 5, they seem woefully under-powered (AC 20 vs 11, hp 60 vs 30, DR 5/- vs fast healing 5, fear aura vs fear aura).

I lowered the Spawn of Kyuss' CR to 4 and upped their AC to 15 (+1 Dex, +4 natural) to make them a slightly more reasonable challenge. But since I had made them relatively tougher, I also wanted to outline some more detailed options for dealing with their worm attack. So here is the stat block I came up with.

*************************************************************************** *********************

SPAWN OF KYUSS
CR 4; Know religion DC 19; CE, medium, undead; Init +1; Senses darkvision 60ft, Perception +5; Aura fear

DEFENCE
AC 15, touch 11, flat 14 (+1 Dex, +4 natural); HD 4d8+12; hp 30 (fast healing 5); Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +4; +2 vs channel energy; Immune bleed, death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep-effects, stunning, undead traits; Weakness curative transformation; Defensive Abilities channel resistance +2

OFFENSE
Spd 30ft; Melee slam +8 (1d6+6 plus worm plus Kyuss’ gift) OR melee touch +7 touch (worm); Ranged worm +4 ranged touch (worm); Space/Reach 5ft/5ft; Special Attacks create spawn

STATISTICS
Abilities Str 18, Dex 12, Con -, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 15
Base Attack +3; CMB +7 (+8 with slam); CMD 18
Feats – Toughness, Weapon Focus (slam)
Skills – Acrobatics +1 (+9 jump), Climb +10, Perception +5, Stealth +7; Racial Modifiers - +8 Acrobatics when jumping; Languages - Common

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Create Spawn (Su) – creature killed by Intelligence damage rise as Spawn of Kyuss 1d6+4 rounds later (tiny creatures die, huge creatures become zombies); spawn not controlled by progenitor

Curative Transformation (Ex) – remove curse and remove disease (and similar effects) turn spawn into zombie on DC 14 caster level check

Fear Aura (Su) – continuous 40ft-radius effect; as fear spell (panicked); Will DC 14 negates; save also renders you immune to aura for 24 hours; CL 7th

Kyuss’ Gift (Su) – disease – slam; save Fort DC 14; onset 1 day; frequency 1/day; effect 1d6 Con and 1d4 Wis (rotting flesh and dementia); cure 2 consecutive saves; healing magic has only half effect on victim (remove disease works normally)

Worm (Ex) - worm (fine vermin, AC 10, 1 hp, leap 10ft, killed by touch of silver); on spawn’s next turn worm burrows into target (if target has +5 natural armour they are immune); before burrowing they may be killed normally; cause 1 hp damage/round for 1d4+1 rounds to reach brain; then inflict 1d2 Intelligence damage per round until victim dies at 0 intelligence; natural attacks and unarmed strikes expose attacker to 1d4 worms
Spells - worm destroyed by remove curse or remove disease (auto success); dispel evil or neutralise poison delay progress for 10d6 minutes; spells affect all worms in victim
Area-effect Spells - effective only before worm reaches brain; if target forgoes or fails saving throw cumulative 5% chance of killing each worm for each point of damage inflicted; if target succeeds saving throw chance of success is halved
Surgery - only effective before worm reaches brain; standard action; heal check with DC determined by tool used; success kills 1 worm plus 1 additional worm (if present) if every 5 points the check exceeds the DC; light piercing or slashing DC 15; one handed piercing or slashing or light bludgeoning DC 20; two handed piercing or slashing or one handed bludgeoning DC 25; two handed bludgeoning DC 30; surgery inflicts 1 point of damage (cannot be reduced or avoided); for each additional point of damage inflicted gain +2 bonus on heal check; you can only inflict damage up to the weapon's maximum base damage plus enhancement (no Strength or precision-based damage); +5 on check if patient also readies standard action; +10 on check if both surgeon and patient spend full-round action; +5 on check if using silver tool; +2 on check for each size category of surgeon smaller than victim; -2 on check for each size category of surgeon larger than victim
Torch and Fire - only effective before worm reaches brain; DC 20 heal check; success kills 1 worm plus 1 additional worm (if present) if every 5 points the check exceeds the DC; inflicts normal torch damage (1 point of fire); +2 on check for each extra point of fire damage inflicted for larger fires, alchemist fire etc

*************************************************************************** *********************

So I may have gone a bit overboard on the details, but I liked the idea of the players getting masterwork silver scalpels specially made. Also, as they play such a significant part of the whole adventure path, I thought they should be fairly detailed.

Anyway so what do people think? Should Spawn of Kyuss be CR 5 or 4? Have I made it overpowered? And have I gone a bit nuts on the whole surgery thing?


Just hoping for some feedback. I'm converting Age of Worms to Pathfinder. Looking at the basic Spawn of Kyuss, I felt that they clearly were not CR 5, even with a fear aura, fast healing and their worm attack. Comparing Spawn to a Mummy, also CR 5, they seem woefully under-powered (AC 20 vs 11, hp 60 vs 30, DR 5/- vs fast healing 5, fear aura vs fear aura).

I lowered the Spawn of Kyuss' CR to 4 and upped their AC to 15 (+1 Dex, +4 natural) to make them a slightly more reasonable challenge. But since I had made them relatively tougher, I also wanted to outline some more detailed options for dealing with their worm attack. So here is the stat block I came up with.

*************************************************************************** *********************

SPAWN OF KYUSS
CR 4; Know religion DC 19; CE, medium, undead; Init +1; Senses darkvision 60ft, Perception +5; Aura fear

DEFENCE
AC 15, touch 11, flat 14 (+1 Dex, +4 natural); HD 4d8+12; hp 30 (fast healing 5); Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +4; +2 vs channel energy; Immune bleed, death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, sleep-effects, stunning, undead traits; Weakness curative transformation; Defensive Abilities channel resistance +2

OFFENSE
Spd 30ft; Melee slam +8 (1d6+6 plus worm plus Kyuss’ gift) OR melee touch +7 touch (worm); Ranged worm +4 ranged touch (worm); Space/Reach 5ft/5ft; Special Attacks create spawn

STATISTICS
Abilities Str 18, Dex 12, Con -, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 15
Base Attack +3; CMB +7 (+8 with slam); CMD 18
Feats – Toughness, Weapon Focus (slam)
Skills – Acrobatics +1 (+9 jump), Climb +10, Perception +5, Stealth +7; Racial Modifiers - +8 Acrobatics when jumping; Languages - Common

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Create Spawn (Su) – creature killed by Intelligence damage rise as Spawn of Kyuss 1d6+4 rounds later (tiny creatures die, huge creatures become zombies); spawn not controlled by progenitor

Curative Transformation (Ex) – remove curse and remove disease (and similar effects) turn spawn into zombie on DC 14 caster level check

Fear Aura (Su) – continuous 40ft-radius effect; as fear spell (panicked); Will DC 14 negates; save also renders you immune to aura for 24 hours; CL 7th

Kyuss’ Gift (Su) – disease – slam; save Fort DC 14; onset 1 day; frequency 1/day; effect 1d6 Con and 1d4 Wis (rotting flesh and dementia); cure 2 consecutive saves; healing magic has only half effect on victim (remove disease works normally)

Worm (Ex) - worm (fine vermin, AC 10, 1 hp, leap 10ft, killed by touch of silver); on spawn’s next turn worm burrows into target (if target has +5 natural armour they are immune); before burrowing they may be killed normally; cause 1 hp damage/round for 1d4+1 rounds to reach brain; then inflict 1d2 Intelligence damage per round until victim dies at 0 intelligence; natural attacks and unarmed strikes expose attacker to 1d4 worms
Spells - worm destroyed by remove curse or remove disease (auto success); dispel evil or neutralise poison delay progress for 10d6 minutes; spells affect all worms in victim
Area-effect Spells - effective only before worm reaches brain; if target forgoes or fails saving throw cumulative 5% chance of killing each worm for each point of damage inflicted; if target succeeds saving throw chance of success is halved
Surgery - only effective before worm reaches brain; standard action; heal check with DC determined by tool used; success kills 1 worm plus 1 additional worm (if present) if every 5 points the check exceeds the DC; light piercing or slashing DC 15; one handed piercing or slashing or light bludgeoning DC 20; two handed piercing or slashing or one handed bludgeoning DC 25; two handed bludgeoning DC 30; surgery inflicts 1 point of damage (cannot be reduced or avoided); for each additional point of damage inflicted gain +2 bonus on heal check; you can only inflict damage up to the weapon's maximum base damage plus enhancement (no Strength or precision-based damage); +5 on check if patient also readies standard action; +10 on check if both surgeon and patient spend full-round action; +5 on check if using silver tool; +2 on check for each size category of surgeon smaller than victim; -2 on check for each size category of surgeon larger than victim
Torch and Fire - only effective before worm reaches brain; DC 20 heal check; success kills 1 worm plus 1 additional worm (if present) if every 5 points the check exceeds the DC; inflicts normal torch damage (1 point of fire); +2 on check for each extra point of fire damage inflicted for larger fires, alchemist fire etc

*************************************************************************** *********************

So I may have gone a bit overboard on the details, but I liked the idea of the players getting masterwork silver scalpels specially made. Also, as they play such a significant part of the whole adventure path, I thought they should be fairly detailed.

Anyway so what do people think? Should Spawn of Kyuss be CR 5 or 4? Have I made it overpowered? And have I gone a bit nuts on the whole surgery thing?


The rules for the Whirlwind ability in the Universal Monster Rules concur with Bestiary 1, but differ from Bestiary 2 and 3. Bestiary 2 and 3 omit the line "Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the whirlwind might take damage when caught in the whirlwind (generally damage equal to the monster's slam attack for a creature of its size) and may be lifted into the air." Has the Whirlwind ability reverted back to its original form or does the PRD need to be updated in line with Bestiary 2 and 3?