Tarantula's page

What is the lighting condition, to an elf, 25' from a torch?

It depends on what the lighting was without the torch.

Outside at noon? Its normally bright light. The torch can't increase this anymore, so its still bright.
Inside a dark underground area? Normally Dark. The torch increases this by one step to dim. Creatures in the dim light still have concealment to the elf, as LLV only lets them see twice as far, it doesn't remove the concealment.

[quoteLow-Light Vision]Characters with low-light vision have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light. Low-light vision is color vision. A spellcaster with low-light vision can read a scroll as long as even the tiniest candle flame is next to him as a source of light.

Characters with low-light vision can see outdoors on a moonlit night as well as they can during the day.

The light is dim. The LLV character can see twice as far. LLV doesn't change the actual light condition of that space.

If it is dim light, you have concealment from a human. This means anyone could make a stealth check in this case, because they have concealment from the human and concealment is what is required to make a stealth check.

If the human was a dwarf instead, they could not make a stealth check, because they do not have concealment from the dwarf. They are still in an area of dim light, they just don't have concealment, because dim light doesn't provide concealment against things with darkvision. Kind of like invisibility to blindsight. You have concealment with invisibility to things that see normally. You do not have concealment to something with blindsight.

Now, HIPS. The requirement is that you are within 10' of dim light. You could be in bright light, but have dim light 9' away, and use this ability. You don't need any concealment to use HIPS, because you are near dim light. That replaces the requirement for concealment. It doesn't matter if they have LLV, Darkvision, or any other kind of vision. You can make a stealth check because you are near a dimly lit area.

As to the how, its supernatural.

Anguish wrote:

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

The spell restrictions only apply to the monster you summoned, if those monsters were bound here through, say, a Greater Planar Binding, they could likewise use those SLAs. They don't apply to you, because you're not a summoned monster.

If the monster you summon can't use the abilities, they effectively don't exist. To expect that you can use abilities that are unavailable to the monster granting them is... a stretch.

They can't use them because of the rules regarding summon monsters. Rules which don't apply to standard creatures. Which you, the wearer, are. And not a summoned monster.

Not being able to use abilities doesn't mean you don't have those abilities. It's like saying, because you can't use teleport into or out from an Anti-Magic Field, that you don't have the Teleport spell. Not only is that blatantly false, but its unavailability is circumstantial at best, because the rules and effects of Anti-Magic Field means you can't use them, just like how the rules and effects of summoned monsters means summoned creatures can't use them.

There's no text that says you use abilities as if you're that very summoned creature. In fact, it actually says the opposite, that you can use any of its special abilities as if they were yours.

So yes, just because they can't use them doesn't mean that they don't have them.

For the spell's duration, the wearer can use of any of the bound outsider's spell-like abilities as if they were his own.

I can use the monsters SLAs, as if it was my SLA. Summoned monsters can't use teleportation abilities. If he can't use it, then I can't use it, because I am taking his spell like abilities as they are for the summoned monster.

You can't say, "its in the statblock so I can use it". You have the specific creature you summoned in the mask. That specific creature has specific abilities it can use. Teleport is not one of them, so you also cannot use it.

Each round on your turn, starting when you cast the spell, the fog deals 2d6 points of acid damage to each creature and object within it.

So, each round during the time stop, the creatures in the are are immune. When time stop ends, each of the casters turn deals the damage.

A living creature with 6 or more HD takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud (a successful Fortitude save halves this damage). Holding one's breath doesn't help, but creatures immune to poison are unaffected by the spell.

Again, each round on the casters turn, it has an effect. That effect is still present when time stop expires.

What is similar to those in wall of fire?

One side of the wall, selected by you, sends forth waves of heat, dealing 2d4 points of fire damage to creatures within 10 feet and 1d4 points of fire damage to those past 10 feet but within 20 feet. The wall deals this damage when it appears, and to all creatures in the area on your turn each round. In addition, the wall deals 2d6 points of fire damage + 1 point of fire damage per caster level (maximum +20) to any creature passing through it.

Every casters turn, deal 2d4 or 1d4 damage depending on distance from the wall. Additionally, deal damage to creatures passing through it. Those effects will start when time stop expires.

The difference is wall of fire also has this section.

If you evoke the wall so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall.

This happens during the time stop, so the creature is immune to the passing through damage.

Unarmed strike is not a natural weapon, so classification is not required. You have not proven that classification of unarmed strike is required.

Tarantula wrote:

Whirlwind requires a full-attack action, and specifically changes the attacks allowed. That is the difference.

And....?

How many extra attacks does spell combat provide? Zero. None. It provides you all the attacks a full attack action would require, and a spell. A spell is still not an attack, no matter how many times people repeat it. Some spells provide an attack once the casting is complete (which would not be compatible with WW), but a spell is just a spell. WW replaces all your attacks in a round with a single attack against all enemies in range. It does not replace all spells you might cast in a round, it does not replace all potions you might drink in a round, it does not replace all 5' steps you make in a round. It replaces only attacks.

Spell combat functions as TWF where casting the spell is the offhand weapon. Instead of attacking you cast with it. Casting the spell replaces the offhand attack. If it only replaced the weapon then it has no need to refer to TWF because you can hold two weapons and not be TWF. TWF is using a second weapon to get an extra attack, which spell combat replaces with casting a spell.

James Risner wrote:

Actual natural weapons must be primary or secondary. You can't quote a rule saying Unarmed are natural except for effects, and since it doesn't say primary or secondary it's neither.

And you cannot have a natural weapon that is neither.

If you have Raw that supports your position for an unclassified natural weapon post it.

You've seen the RAW stating all natural weapons must be either primary or secondary a dozen times.

I've posted the RAW stating this at least that many times.

That's fine, because the monk does not have a natural weapon. He has an unarmed strike.

Does the monk have a natural weapon? No.
Does the monk have an unarmed strike? Yes.
Does the unarmed strike count as a natural weapon for effects or spells that benefit? Yes.
Does it say that it counts as a primary or secondary natural weapon for effects or spells that benefit? No.
Therefore, the monk has an unarmed strike, and effects for natural weapons can count it as one. It does not count as primary or secondary and does not need to because it actually is not a natural weapon, it just counts as one for spells and effects which benefit them.

Magentawolf wrote:

Monks do not provoke because they have Improved Unarmed Strike, not because their attacks are natural weapons. (Which they're not)

Natural Attacks wrote:

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks.

Emphasis mine.

Any attack made without a weapon is a natural attack. These attacks fall into one of two categories. Primary or Secondary.

It helps to look at the whole section.

Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:

Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.

An unarmed character can't take attacks of opportunity (but see "Armed" Unarmed Attacks, below).

"Armed" Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).

Any attack made without a weapon is an unarmed attack.

If we now look at natural attacks.

Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.

Monks unarmed strikes are not natural weapons, so they are not natural attacks. They are not primary or secondary, because they are unarmed strikes. They do count as a natural weapon for effects and spells, but it does not specify primary or secondary, so it is neither.

Natural weapons fall into 2 groups, primary or secondary.
A monk unarmed strike is not a natural weapon, but can be treated as one for effects and spells.
Because power attack requires a primary natural weapon, and a monk unarmed strike is treated as a natural weapon, it does not apply.

• 1. Power attack is an effect that enhances natural weapons. The degree of enhancement depends on classification; either Primary or Secondary.
  
• 2. Monks unarmed attacks count as natural weapons for effects.
  
• 3. There are only two possible classifications for natural weapons and monk unarmed strikes meet all the criteria for Primary.

RAW has been provided. If you have RAW that runs counter to that, please provide it. Right now all anyone is offering as a counter is "I disagree."

I have provided RAW backing my position.

You are welcome to provide RAW backing your position.

1) Yes.

If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.

Because monks do not possess a natural attack, they do not add 1-1/2 times their strength bonus on damage rolls.

Some natural attacks are denoted as secondary natural attacks, such as tails and wings. Attacks with secondary natural attacks are made using your base attack bonus minus 5. These attacks deal an amount of damage depending on their type, but you only add half your Strength modifier on damage rolls.

Secondary natural attacks get a lesser benefit.

This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls.

Because a monk is not adding 1-1/2 times strength modifier to his attack then power attack cannot increase its damage bonus by half.

Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:

Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.

An unarmed character can't take attacks of opportunity (but see "Armed" Unarmed Attacks, below).

"Armed" Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).

Note that being armed counts for both offense and defense (the character can make attacks of opportunity).

Unarmed Strike Damage: An unarmed strike from a Medium character deals 1d3 points of bludgeoning damage (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). A Small character's unarmed strike deals 1d2 points of bludgeoning damage, while a Large character's unarmed strike deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage. All damage from unarmed strikes is nonlethal damage. Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).

Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll.

Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.

Some natural attacks are denoted as secondary natural attacks, such as tails and wings. Attacks with secondary natural attacks are made using your base attack bonus minus 5. These attacks deal an amount of damage depending on their type, but you only add half your Strength modifier on damage rolls.

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.

This makes it clear that unarmed attacks are not natural attacks. Power attack gives extra benefits to primary natural attacks. Unarmed strike is not a primary natural attack, so it does not get those benefits.

If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.

The monk does not have a natural attack, he has an unarmed attack. The unarmed attack is considered to be a natural attack for spells and effects that benefit natural attacks, but it is not a natural attack.

Tarantula wrote:

Tremor sense and blind sense do not give line of sight. If he was invisible, they would also not be able to charge, because they cannot see him. They know he is in that space, but no line of sight is present. They are not precise senses, they let you pinpoint the square, that's it.

So an Earth Elemental that is fighting with another Earth Elemental on their home Plane of Earth (probably due to a territory dispute - you know those elementals...), will never be capable of charging his foe while earthgliding? That doesn't seem right.

Yes. Tremor sense gives you the square, but not LOS. You can't charge things you don't have LOS to.

The same thing would happen if you had blindsense, and wanted to charge an invisible creature. You know the square, but you do not have LOS to the creature, so you can't charge it per the charge rules.

House rule? I'd probably let you try to charge and apply the 50% concealment, but RAW is no charge.

If I removed one of your arms, could you still take the action?

If not, then it requires 2 hands to perform.

Provide some encounters that aren't combat solvable. Or at least, if they solve with combat, the rewards are vastly reduced.

Only if you define the spell as a weapon, which spell combat does.

Spell combat defines CASTING the spell as a weapon. Not the spell itself. Once the casting is complete, then there is no longer a 2nd weapon from spell combat.

TWF: You get Thing A

Spell Combat: Thing A is replaced with Thing B
Whirlwind: Thing A is prohibited. Thing B is not.

Its the order.

TWF: You get Thing A.
Whirlwind: Thing A is prohibited.
Spell Combat: Thing A is replaced with Thing B. Oh, thing A was prohibited, so it can't be replaced.

Of important note: It is legal to Combine TWF and Whirlwind; you would not get the extra attacks if you did so.

TWF is the extra attack. You cannot combine it with whirlwind. You can hold 2 weapons and whirlwind attack, but you cannot get the extra attack from holding a 2nd weapon.

uncanny defense is giving an untyped bonus to CMD, which will stack with the dodge bonus you're getting.

Even if it was a dodge bonus, dodge bonuses stack.

I'm not sure I'd say 'very clear'. The section you bolded says you can't activate a style before combat starts, but the rules nowhere specify that your style turns off when combat ends.

Personally I've always thought the combat rule on styles was kind of goofy, especially for styles that have non-combat utility. "Hey throw a punch at me so I can get a bonus to climb checks" is a very weird thing to have to say, but that's neither here nor there.

At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check.

There's nothing that says initiative ends either. So by the same logic, you get 1 initiative check on the first combat, and that is forever your initiative.

That would also mean no one is ever flat-footed or surprised.

No one makes this argument with initiative, so why with styles?

I read the statement from styles like this. "You cannot use a style feat before combat begins" means, when you roll initiative, you are not using a style feat, because that is the beginning of combat.

1. When combat begins, all combatants roll initiative.

And, again, it's usually an action to activate these things. In at least two of the contests I saw the Wizard gave up the initiative, they didn't lose (Diviner is pretty ridiculous). If they see the martial on a flying mount, they may decide not to cede the initiative and open by Mazing it (before any of the abilities could be activated).

The wizard that tried to maze won initiative and did try to maze. It backfired on him.

I'm thinking about creating a sohei as well, just to remove the diviner from automatically going first. I have some other thoughts for how to remove the benefit of going first as well.

Reflex partial and physical damage; ranged attack to hit and physical damage; reflex for half and physical damage; potentially reflex to negate, physical damage; reflex for half.

Still, a lot better than "doesn't do anything" that most other spells fall to under anti-magic. Plus, you don't get all those magical bonuses to your saves while in anti-magic.

What would be more fun, is to take the combatants designed for the single arena fight, and throw them exactly as is to the escalating CR monster fight, or vice-versa. Take a character designed for escalating CR monster fight, and put them up in 1v1 situations.

Its not too hard to make a super specialized character who is great at their one trick. I think having to have rounded characters would equalize it out more.

Shooting the arrow through it IS the experiment.

If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

You cast the wall, archer gets a saving throw. He fails.

Archer still sees a wall there, but his buddy told him its fake, so he can take a shot at a square where the enemy was before. The enemy gets total concealment, but he can attempt to make the shot. Once the arrow goes through the wall (interaction) he automatically makes the save and can now see through it.

Future attacks can be made without concealment from the wall, because it is now translucent for the archer.

Conversely, lets make it a real wall.
Caster casts wall of stone, blocking off the archer.
No save is required, the archer has seen his teammate use illusion tricks before, and thinks this is another one of those walls for him to shoot through.

He tries to shoot through the wall at the enemy, the arrow bounces off the wall, oops; guess its real this time.

well I mean the last one didn't even cast timestop. just greater possession.

Which would have been fine, had he not cast wall of suppression first.

Unfortunately a lot of the martial goodies to fight casters aren't in the sources here. Equalizer shield, or cyclonic on arrows both are from sources not allowed.

That or someone more familiar with the caster tricks could make a martial. Most of my play has ended ~12. So my 20th level experience is lacking.

Does the spellcaster need to show up personally and physically in their own body?

The answer to that was yes.

Also, as far as the whole Magic Jar thing goes, for a 20th level caster wouldn't it be more expedient to just cast Greater Possession, which lasts 20 hours, at some point before the fight and just drive a Balor or something to the fight without worrying about the jar or your original body? When the enemy has carved through your meat-tank's HP, it dies and you pop into the nearest available square, none the worse for wear when your turn comes up.

The rules was the caster had to show up in person.

The Wall of Fire was legal, I just don't understand why the fighter wasted the turn he was given.

Granted, while most of the Paizo published methods for a fighter dealing with this situation are being banned (most Paizo resources are not published on the PRD), there were available options.

Then make a fighter and give it a shot! I completely forgot about mind blank, so I was hoping to catch the caster provoking, knowing I was unlikely to 1-round them.

It's a spell use item of a spell already cast.

That doesn't exist. Its a command word item. Its a special word you say, that makes it activate. It could be, "disguise me" or it could be something in a foreign language. Either way, you're not going to pass it off as not having happened while disguised.

Or, follow the item creation rules, to make a constant hat of disguise for 2,000gp instead of the command word for 1,800 that already exists.

Quote:

Metal sansetsukons actually exist

Though as a point against that (and despite John's belief that it's impossible) there are metal sticks that actually exist too.

The book says all quarterstaffs are wood. It does not say the same about sansetsukons.

RAW its a poorly written exploit.

RAI I agree that it should be spent as you cast the spell, no additional action required, and it changes that casting of the spell to be shared. This means if you wanted to cast it twice, and touch 2 different teammates, you would spend 2 arcane points to do so.

Okay, I changed sides and built a level 20 fighter, but I'd like to do this PbP style where we send our sheets to an arbitrator so that there isn't constant one-upping on how it was prepared. We all know wizards thrive on knowing exactly what their enemies can do. Anyone willing to arbitrate?

cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone

This isn't in the PRD. Its from seeker of secrets. So not allowed.

I've almost got a fighter that can beat these diviner wizards in initiative, so every point counts!

I ran one of these by PbP before, and everyone submitted their characters to the GM, and then he submitted them to the "combat thread". That way nobody could metagame.

I think the OP should put a deadline on things by saying 1st level combatants need to be submitted by ____. The same goes for certain other levels.

I would do levels 1, 7, 13, 20. If he doesn't make things less free-form nothing might ever get done.

This sounds like the way to do it. Or if you're willing to run another one I'd love to participate.

What about unchained combat tactics stamina pool? Its on the prd, so in the allowed sources, fighters get it for free. If the fighter takes improved initiative, he can spend 10 stamina to treat his die as rolling a 20, putting any fighter (or character who burns a feat on combat stamina) into the initiative game with the diviner wizards again.

So what about an unchained rogue as the martial?

Advanced rogue talent they get quick shot. How can we maximize our chances of winning off this one attack at the start of combat?

Slee Papnea

1st round
Quicken Extend Suffocate - DC 30 Fort for 6 rounds

Suffocate is a close spell, you start 400 feet away. (200 foot radius for level 20). How are you closing the distance?

How does summoning and people without goz masks deal with an eversmoking bottle?

Presumably summons have other forms of sight, or you just summon enough of them it doesn't matter. Area spells you don't have to see through fog either.

Cha martial talks wizard into being his friend. They walk up to shake hands. Martial kills him with surprise attack using sneak attack bonus from some sort of BS class combination I'm sure someone will know about somewhere.

Again, this is contingent on beating their initiative of 48. I don't think you can win initiative AND a meaningful Cha martial. I also disagree that you can stop this previously agreed upon fight by diplomacy. Presumably there is some very good reason why both characters agreed in this combat to the death. Probably with gods involved. Even if the wizard and the fighter were best of friends, they might still be willing to fight each other to the death in order to save their world from being destroyed.

Frankly - a Dex Sohei doesn't even need the VMC.

+12 from Dex

+4 Improved Initiative

+2 trait

+2 Elf thing

+10 Sohei ability

roll of 20

Total of 50 - ezpz

No traits; you're still tied at 48.

I was assuming the 47/48 was before the roll.

There was no roll, they are also divination wizards and get to treat the die as a 20 for initiative. You're not a martial anymore, so now you just set a new bar for martials to beat.

Its not opposed.

I don't think being a variant multi-class wizard counts as being a martial anymore.

So - a charisma martial can't win a fight with the wizard, but if they win initiative they will be able to convince the wizard...

Last I checked the wizards were at 47/48 for initiative. Hows the fighter looking?

Would a Lavender and Green Ellipsoid ioun stone (absorbs 50 spell levels 8th and lower) be considered a one-shot item?

Its not magical after absorbing the levels, so I'd say its a one-shot.

Can you have custom items? Fighter will need them in an arena match.

Is there a chance for skill use? I mean PvP the right build could just outright talk an opponent into giving up with an opposed roll. Magic gear prevents mind control magic, but diplomacy, bluff and intimidate are not magic. What if I build my fighter to dump stat everything but will and charisma then just talk the wizard to death?

These are such wearisome threads. Yet strangely enticing....

Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future.

It also takes 1 minute of interaction. No go in combat.

You can use bluff to feint, or intimidate to demoralize in combat as normal. If you think that will help, go for it.

Can i just grab a ring of 3 wishes and wish the wizard dead the times but for it not to trigger until the round starts. sooo I wish that this wizard dies in 5 minutes and repeat.

I think that would fall under the "no one use items". Yes you get 3 wishes, but you get them once and then the ring is no longer magical.

On round 2 cast quickened scorching ray to check for spell turning effects followed by Energy Drain

On round 3 cast quickened energy drain and energy drain
round 4-5 start casting summon monster 8 and quickened summon monster 8

Effect and area spells aren't effected by spell turning. So scorching ray and energy drain won't trigger it.

zylphryx wrote:

Assume the following, where X is you, Y are goblins and Z is your target ... (following the spacing to keep the "diagram" in one piece)

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
X

YYY
YYY
YZY

You cast ray of frost. How many goblins do you affect?

You fire a arrow. How many goblins do you affect?

Doesn't matter, swarms are only immune to spells or effects which target a specific number of creatures. Not weapon attacks.

I'll be a level 20 wizard. So we have a 200' arena and we start on opposite sides? Great.

Assuming no pre-buffing or can I have spells up at the start?