Stragen's page

Monk: Does the extra attack from spending ki as part of a flurry of blows stack with the extra attack from haste?

Yes. The extra attack described in the ki pool ability doesn't say it works like haste, nor does it say that it doesn't stack with haste, so the monk would get two additional attacks (one from spending a ki point as part of a flurry, one from haste).

Pasted from the FAQ link above (for future google searchers). This thread should probably be closed now. Thankyou.

Do we have an answer to this question yet?

It came up in the game last night. We have been using hero lab on the ipad and in that software, when you tick the box for Ki extra attack, it stacks with the attacks from Haste.

Hi Tels, Dabbler,

Thankyou for your help with the Errata. Its has taken me a while, but with your help I have finally spotted the problem with Flurry of Blows. I was reading my intent not what was written. My intent was to create a flurry of blows that allowed any possible combination of attacks, which includes all attacks coming from one-weapon. What was written was in the same style as the original pazio text, and (in hindsight) was clearly ambiguous. I think this is the offending line."The monk must make all attacks using unarmed strike or the Special Monk Weapon in any combination." This makes readers think that they have to iterate between unarmed strikes and the Special Monk Weapon.

I have updated the text to clarify this. Updated words in bold.

Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, an unarmed monk or a monk wielding a Special Monk Weapon(s) can make a Flurry of Blows as a full-attack action. When doing so the monk gains extra attacks as if they were Two-Weapon Fighting, and may use the Two Weapon Fighting Feat(s) [1] without an off-hand weapon. All attacks, including those granted from the Two-Weapon Fighting Feat(s), must be made with the Special Monk Weapon(s) or unarmed strike. This can be in any combination, including all attacks with the same weapon. The monk applies his full (1x) Strength bonus to damage rolls for all successful attacks made, including primary, off-hand, and two-handed weapon attacks. A monk may also substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for any attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks. A monk with the Flurry of Blows class feature gains the Two-Weapon Fighting feat at 1st level, the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat at 8th level, and the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat at 15th level, even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for these feats.

[1] Two-Weapon Fighting feat(s) include: Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and any other Two-Weapon feats that that require Two-Weapon Fighting as a prerequisite.

Is this clearer?

Word count is now 2392.

Kind Regards,

Stragen

Hello Pathfinders,

As an aside, a better "one change" fix for monks:

"As a swift action a monk may move half their speed."

It's not a one fix change for a monk, but Stragen's Monk Errata includes an idea similar to this.

Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to his land speed, as shown on Table 3–10. At 7th level, in addition to his normal Move Action or 5-foot step, a monk can move an extra 5 feet as a swift action without provoking attacks of opportunity. This increases up to an extra 10 feet at 14th level. This swift movement costs 1 ki pool point per 5 feet moved.

Kind Regards,

Stragen

Hello Tels,

Thankyou for digging into the FAQs. I considered the information you provided and there does appear to be a problem with maneuver training. This is how I understand the problem.

The pathfinder definition for wielding a weapon means that you are only wielding when you are using it to attack. So for a round when you don’t attack, for example taking total defence action you are no longer wielding. Base Attack Bonus is directly used to calculate CMB and CMD, thus applies to all maneuvers. In addition, maneuvers that are applied using a weapon (Disarm, Sunder, and Trip) can also apply any ‘attack bonuses’ from that weapon to the attack roll for the combat maneuver. So a monk that Bull Rushes an opponent is not wielding unarmed strike and thus loses the benefit of Maneuver Training.

So the way to solve this 'wielding' problem is to turn it around.

Maneuver Training (Ex): From 3rd level, the Base Attack Bonus of a monk is equal to his monk level. He loses this benefit while wielding a weapon other than a Special Monk Weapon.

This costs an extra five words but basically allows a monk to use his full BAB for everything other than hitting someone with a non-monk weapon. Spellcasters may multiclass with monk to increase their CMB, CMD and BAB, but I think that is fair enough if they want to take 3 levels of Monk at the expense of 3 caster levels. I’ll use your modification to quivering palm to save three words.

A monk can have a number quivering palms in effect equal to his Wisdom modifier; any additional attempts to use quivering palm above this limit are negated.

It was my intent that Flurry of Blows should allow a monk to make use of two-weapon fighting and the Two-Weapon Fighting feats in a non-standard manner, which is without a weapon in the off hand. And to use any combination of attacks, including all attacks with one weapon. I also want to give Monks the full two weapon fighting feats, so that they qualify for other feats such as Two-Weapon Rend. Further, I later realised that the two-weapon fighting feats need to be provided through flurry of blows, so that archetypes that lose flurry of blows lose the two weapon fighting feats.

So my flurry of blows should do three things:

• [1] Enable two weapon fighting without an off-hand weapon while allowing all attacks, including extra attacks, to be made with one weapon, or two weapons, or a combination of weapon attacks and unarmed strikes. And ensuring that the damage bonus is a flat 1x strength bonus.
  
• [2] Allow the monk to make use of all the two weapon fighting feats (such as two-weapon rend) in this special way.
  
• [3] Give the monk the feats Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, and Greater Two Weapon fighting as part of the class feature. And not just while they are performing a flurry of blows.

I think my existing text achieves these aims.

So a monk could use the two weapon fighting feats with a non Special Monk Weapon outside of flurry of blows. But they should lose their higher BAB when doing so. And lose the special abilities that flurry of blows gives.

I had previously removed the following text from unarmed strike "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes." This was causing confusion in combining two-weapon fighting with unarmed strikes. I replaced it with "A monk may substitute an unarmed attack for an off-hand weapon attack, and uses the standard penalties for Two-Weapon Fighting for his attacks." This ability to do full strength damage with off-hand attacks is covered under flurry of blows; this is effectively the same as the double slice feat. Monk archetypes that lose Flurry of Blows, and wish to go down the two-weapon fighting path can do so, but they have to buy the double slice feat.

Total text is now 2398 words. This gives us a few words for flavour and fixes. Thankyou for your help so far.

Kind Regards,

Stragen

Greetings Pathfinders,

Updated Stragen's Errata Monk. thread with a new release.

I have taken some of the feedback and great ideas from the threads and included them in this update.

I played my current character an unarmed scout (monk/ranger) on Friday night. While I love them I do think monks are under done compared to some of the other classes. On friday we had a rogue, a paladin and an oracle. The paladin does the most damage and has the best survival. The rogue does outstanding damage with sneak attacks, playing the glass cannon role. The oracle is the party healer, though often overshadowed by the paladin's healing ability. In combat my character's role is to sit in the second line, just after the paladin, and help the rogue get flanking and keep the heat off the healer... Who has the same AC and hitpoints as my character. Out of combat is another matter, spotting and tracking the enemy is his job, which he excels at.

Sincerely,

Stragen

Hello Tels,

The intent and wording is to have the Base Attack Bonus of the monk increase from Maneuver Training. I agree that modifying Attack Bonus would only help that weapon. I included unarmed strike in the definition of 'Special Monk Weapons' earlier in the text. If it is still not clear, then the only option would be to add more words, to make the increase to CMB and CMD explicit. Or perhaps just a FAQ.

Increasing the BAB with Special Monk Weapons is needed to maintain the Flurry of Blows attack bonuses and number of attacks, See Table 3-10 Monk.

Also, what did you think of the Flurry of Blows text? It seems clear to me, but Dabbler was concerned that it wasn't clear, and I value your opinion on the text.

Changing Quivering Palms in effect to be based on wisdom seems a little powerful. It front loads the class feature instead of increasing with level. Though it is worth considering for the word saving. These saved words could be used to clarify Maneuver Training.

Kind Regards,

Stragen

Unarmed Master (Ex):... at the same cost as a enhancing both ends of a double weapon.

Is there any cap on this? One thing that the Powers That Be have said is that they do not want to invalidate the use of the Amulet of Mighty Fists by providing anything cheaper and better.

Only the cap provided by the rules. Enhancing a double weapon is more expensive than an AoMF. I think something better than AoMF is needed. I do like your built in enchancements. This approach is just trying to use the existing crafting system. I may add some separate fluff text of example organisations and people who provide this type of enchancement service.

Actually, it wouldn't, as those [Dimensional] feats can be used as easily by any caster that can cast dimension door.

A pure monk can pick up Dimensional Agility at 13th level, Dimensional Assault at 15th and Dimensional Dervish at 17th using their feats. Of course we could have Abundant Step grow to gradually grant some or all of these feats. But isn't this too much power? This seems something that a monk Archetype could be based upon, in exchange for giving up other class features. Such an archetype should get abundant step earlier.

Hello All Pathfinders,

Stragen’s Monk Errata Version 1.1

Stragen’s Monk Table 3-10 Errata Version 1.0

My sincere thanks to Tels, Dabbler, MA, and Jakk for their feedback and assistance. This errata is provided free for Pazio and the community to use and republish in part of in whole.

Sincerely,

Stragen

Hello Jakk,
This document was still an early draft. I provide a pdf downloadable version shortly. Unfortunately google-drive removes the changes tracked from the word version. I’ll see what I can do later.
Kind Regards,
Stragen

Hello Dabbler,
Thankyou for the feedback.

• Please note that weapons can not be ‘enchanted’, only enhanced. I have updated the unarmed master text to make this clear that unarmed strike can be made into a magical weapon.
  
  Quote:

  Unarmed Master (Ex): At 2nd level, a monk’s unarmed strike becomes a masterwork weapon, granting a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls. This may be further enhanced into a magical weapon using the rules for Creating Magic Weapons, at the same cost as a enhancing both ends of a double weapon.

• I have left flurry of blows text unchanged, as being able to one-hand flurry seems clear to me.
  
• I have removed the following text from unarmed strike “There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.” This was causing confusion in combining two-weapon fighting with unarmed strikes. I replaced it with “A monk may substitute an unarmed attack for an off-hand weapon attack, and uses the standard penalties for Two-Weapon Fighting for his attacks.” This ability to do full strength damage with off-hand attacks is covered under flurry of blows; this is effectively the same as the double slice feat. Monk archetypes that lose Flurry of Blows, and wish to go down the two-weapon fighting path can do so, but they have to buy double slice feat.
  
• Leaving abundant step as is so that it doesn’t step on the toes of the Ultimate Combat Feat chain.

Hello Tels,
Thankyou for the thorough review and proof reading.

• As CMB and CMD are both calculated off BAB maneuver training improves both.
  
• Made still mind a flat +2 will saving throw bonus, against spells and spell-like abilities. This seems a little powerful as monks already have good will saves.
  
• updated slow fall.” In calculating falling damage he reduces the number of dice rolled by 1d6 per monk level he possesses.”
• Leaving abundant step as is so that it doesn’t step on the toes of the Ultimate Combat Feat chain.
  
• Leaving Diamond Body text as it. It helps with cannon fodder casters, but not so much against the big bad boss guy.
  
• Leaving Quivering palm text as is, as you understood it correctly. The current text is 32 words; the replacement text would be 40 words. “A Monk can only have one quivering palm in effect at 15th level. At 16th level and every level thereafter, a Monk can maintain an additional Quivering Palm. Any additional attempts to use quivering palm above this limit are negated.” This can be changed to the longer version if there is space.

Hello All Pathfinders,

I've updated my attempt at a monk errata. A complete document within the current word count.

Stragen's Monk Thread

Kind Regards,

Stragen

Hello Pathfinders,

Please find the full document

Stragen's Errata Monk.

Some Features:

• 2405 words including headings, less than the current monk entry
  
• Flurry of Blows allows for one-weapon, two-weapon, or one two-handed-weapon, flurry
  
• Monks with the Flurry of Blows class feature get the Two Weapon Fighting feats. This qualifies them for later feats
  
• Monk's don't have to make extra attacks from Two-Weapon-Fighting with their 'off-hand'
  
• Monks always deal strength damage during a Flurry of Blows. They don't need the double-slice feat
  
• Monks can move up to 10 extra feet as a swift action by spending Ki. They can do this in conjunction with a five foot step on a full action. Or in addition to a move action + standard action
  
• Full BAB when using special monk weapons and unarmed strike
  
• Unarmed strike can be permanently enhanced
  
• Multi-classing with Monk is viable, but a one level dip discouraged.
  
• More bonus feats, including the 'Greater' feats
  
• Bigger Ki Pool
  
• High level abilities are more useful, and based on Ki
  
• Flurry with any Two Handed Monk Weapon - Compatible with archetypes
  
• No new class features. - Compatible with archetypes
  
• Redundant text removed
  

I have the version with changes tracked if anyone wants it.

My thoughts. I think increasing the BAB may be too much when combined with the ultimate combat feats. Also, the title of the class feature 'Maneuver Training' was kept for compatibility with archetypes. However, it now doesn't fit the text of the feat. I may kill the full BAB and make Maneuver Training impact only CMB and CMD. This would also be more kosher with current game rules. Due to space requirements I had to skimp on the flavour text. However, this may make the mechanics easier to read. Proof reading and comments welcome.

This document shows that its possible to make an awesome monk that fills his role as a mobile combatant within the existing space limitations.

Kind Regards,

Stragen

Hello Again Fellow Pathfinders,

I had a look at the word count on the weekend and I'm pretty sure the essence of this monk errata could fit within the word count after some of the redundant text is pruned. According to Word, the word count on is 2414 words and 11055 characters including headings. However, before I do this and revise the monk text to be word-count-neutral, I would like some feedback on the capabilities of this monk. Some features may have to go.

Some things that I noticed:

• The two weapon fighting (TWF) feats will need to be granted within flurry of blows (FoB) class feature, so that the archetypes that loose FoB don't get the TWF feats.

• It’s better not change the titles of class features, so that there is less errata needed for the archetypes. This means that, while I like the name 'Monastic Specialization' better than 'Maneuver Training', it may be easier to keep this old name and replace the content. The also applies to ‘Cat Fall’ and ‘Slow Fall’.

• Granting the TWF feats as part of FoB and allowing Monks to make use of these feats in a non-standard manner is probably the core to any errata. I think there is a desire at Pazio to unify mechanics. This also has the benefit of allowing multi/prestige- class monks to pick up the improved and greater TWF feats through their other class.

• I really like the extra swift, and immediate actions added to Fast Movement. They are subtle and really help with monk with the mobile combatant role. What do you think of the capstone immediate action, too powerful? Prune this text?

• Unarmed Mastery clarifies the ability of the unarmed strike to be permanently enhanced. It seems like a fair solution to the monk’s problems.

• I consider increasing the Ki Pool as plucking the low hanging fruit. It doesn’t impact monk effectiveness, as almost every Ki ability is a swift action, just staying power.

• I think all monk abilities should run off Ki for consistency. The text for quivering palm can be shortened. Having multiple quivering palms is awesome for evil monks… but this is the first place I am going to prune text so this will probably go.

• While I like all the extra bonus feats, some may have to go to save space, which are not critical?

Kind Regards,

Stragen

Hello All Players and Developers,

Here is my attempt to Errata the monk. I have tried to fix the problems and keep the fixes as simple as possible. Flurry of Blows is now a virtual off-hand weapon and the full two-weapon fighting feats are granted. I have also tried to make it fit with archetypes and still allow a flexible build and for multi-classing.

You are all more than welcome to review, reuse, rehash this contribution.

Stragen's Monk Errata

Kind Regards,

Stragen

Hello Dabbler,

Thankyou for the prompt response and praise.

Problem is, how does that work with two-handed weapons (and bows, for that matter)? It also means the monk has to take the Double Slice feat if he wants to keep his off-hand damage, and it forces some existing builds to be reconstructed.

Flurry of blows is a virtual off-hand weapon with some special caveats to allow it to work unarmed, with one monk weapon, two monk weapons, or a two handed weapon. It effectively grants the double slice feats for Special Monk Weapons (including unarmed strike). This fits nicely with the existing text that states there is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed.

Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, an unarmed monk or a monk wielding a Special Monk Weapon(s) can make a Flurry of Blows as a full-attack action. When doing so a monk is considered to be dual wielding a weapon in their primary-hand and a second weapon in their off-hand for the purpose using the Two Weapon Fighting Feat(s) [1]. The monk must make all attacks, including additional attacks granted from the Two Weapon Fighting Feat(s), using unarmed strike or the Special Monk Weapon in any combination. Additional attacks granted from the Two Weapon Fighting Feat(s) are not required to be made with an off-hand weapon. The monk applies his full (1x) Strength bonus to damage rolls for all successful attacks made, including primary, off-hand, and two-handed weapon attacks.

Your right the Zen Archer archetype may still need an errata. The simplest would to make the the 'Bow' a Special Monk Weapon for the Zen Archer class. Unless the class already tags it with the 'monk' special property.

Kind Regards,

Stragen

Dear Pathfinders,

Here is my contribution to this discussion. My goal was to give Pazio something they can use as an errata to boost the monk and will not break the archetypes.

Stragen's Errata Monk.

Your feedback is most welcome. Kind Regards,

Stragen

Stragen’s Errata Monk

The purpose of document is to produce an errata that is compatible with (most) existing archetypes. Monk base combat abilities (i.e. ‘Unarmed Combat’ and ‘Flurry of Blows’) have been reworked for clarity and consistency with two-weapon fighting. The full-two weapon fighting feats have been granted to the monk. At 2nd level the monk’s unarmed strike becomes a masterwork weapon, and may be further enhanced as any other manufactured masterwork weapon. The 3rd level ‘Maneuver Training’ ability has been replaced with ‘Monastic Specialization’. More bonus feats have been added to the bonus feat list, including the ‘Greater’ feats. Slow fall has been replaced with Catfall. Fast Movement includes additions to allow a monk to move-and-attack, or move-attack-move.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: [as normal, plus add following text]
Unarmed strikes and weapons with the Monk special quality are considered Special Monk Weapons.

Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, an unarmed monk or a monk wielding a Special Monk Weapon(s) can make a Flurry of Blows as a full-attack action. When doing so a monk is considered to be dual wielding a weapon in their primary-hand and a second weapon in their off-hand for the purpose using the Two Weapon Fighting Feat(s) [1]. The monk must make all attacks, including additional attacks granted from the Two Weapon Fighting Feat(s), using unarmed strike or the Special Monk Weapon in any combination. Additional attacks granted from the Two Weapon Fighting Feat(s) are not required to be made with an off-hand weapon. The monk applies his full (1x) Strength bonus to damage rolls for all successful attacks made, including primary, off-hand, and two-handed weapon attacks.

A monk may also substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for any attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.

[1] The Two-Weapon Fighting feat(s) include Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and any other Two-Weapon feats that that require Two-Weapon Fighting as a prerequisite.

[add the following to the monk class]
Two Weapon Fighting (combat): At 1st level, the monk gains the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (combat): At 8th level, the monk gains the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

Greater Two Weapon Fighting (combat): At 15th level, the monk gains the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

Unarmed Master (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a monk’s unarmed strike becomes a masterwork weapon, granting a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls. This may be further enhanced as any other manufactured masterwork weapon. The cost of enhancing the monk’s unarmed strike with a permanent weapon enhancement is the same as a enhancing both ends of a double weapon.

[update the bonus feat list with some extra feats]
Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a monk may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list: Blind Fight, Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Improved Sunder, Scorpion Style, Throw Anything and Weapon Focus. At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list: Gorgon's Fist, Improved Blind Fight, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Mobility, Vital Strike and Two Weapon Rend. At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list: Improved Critical, Medusa's Wrath, Snatch Arrows, and Spring Attack. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

At 14th level, the following feats are added to the list: Greater Blind Fight, Greater Bull Rush, Greater Disarm, Greater Grapple, Greater Sunder, Greater Trip. The monk only needs the corresponding improved feat as prerequisite to select one of these greater feats. For example, Greater Trip requires Improved Trip as a prerequisite, but Improved Expertise and all other prerequisites can be ignored.

[remove every instance of Maneuver Training including archetypes and replace it with Monastic Specialization]
Monastic Specialization (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a monk attacking with a Special Monk Weapon (including unarmed strike) treats his monk level as his base attack bonus from his monk class levels, for the determination of his total base attack bonus, number of attacks, CMB, and CMD. For all other purposes, such as attacks with non-monk weapons or qualifying for a feat or prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.

[update Ki Pool to be monk level + wisdom, the rest of the text is the same]
Ki Pool (Su): The number of points in a monk's ki pool is equal to his monk level + his Wisdom modifier.

[add the following text to Fast Movement]
Fast Movement (Ex): [as normal plus the following text]
From level 7, as a swift action, the monk can move 5 feet by spending 1 point from his ki pool. From level 14, once per round as a free action, the monk can move an additional 5 feet by spending 2 points from his ki pool. At level 20, the monk can move 5 foot as immediate action by spending 3 points from his ki pool. This additional (swift, free and immediate action) movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This movement stacks with the Move Action when a Standard Action is taken by the monk, and with a five-foot step during a Full Round Action.

[remove every instance of Slow Fall including archetypes and replace it with Cat Fall]
Catfall (Su): At 4th level or higher, a monk can fall incredible distances without suffering damage. When falling, a monk always lands on his feet. In addition, he reduces the damage inflicted from a fall by 1d6 per monk level he possesses, to a maximum reduction of 20d6 at 20th level. Unlike magical spells (such as feather fall) with similar effects, a monk is not slowed during his descent, making this ability a favored method for higher level monks to rapidly descend great distances quickly. A monk gains the benefits of this ability so long as he has at least one point of ki remaining in his ki pool.

[update quivering palm to be a useful endgame ability]
Quivering Palm (Su): Starting at 15th level, a monk can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the monk so desires. This quivering palm consumes 5 ki and he must announce his intent before making a Standard Action attack roll. Creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. Otherwise, if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter, the monk can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to his monk level. To make such an attempt, the monk merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the monk's level + the monk's Wis modifier), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target takes 1d6 damage per two monk levels (round down) and the quivering palm ends. A monk can have no more than 1 quivering palm in effect per monk level above 14 at one time, any additional attempts to use quivering palm above this limit are negated. The monk may remove a quivering palm from an intended victim as a move action.

Making the monk work now

In our home group Pathfinder game we are using the core rules and our original interpretations of them. My view is that the various later rulings and clarifications have further broken the monk instead fixing them.

We have allowed monks to use their unarmed strike damage with brass knuckles, as in the original text. Adamantine or Silver knuckles help with by passing damage reduction, and at low-levels a masterwork set of brass knuckles gives a nice +1 to attack.

Our GM has ruled that like any other weapon a monk’s unarmed strike can be enchanted. Fluff-wise for my monk character, the cost and time of the enchantment process is associated with undergoing a ritual at a monastery. However, as my GM suggested, this is could also be the cost of the arcane ingredients to have the party wizard enchant the monk with a series of arcane tattoos on the monk’s spine. Masterwork cost still has to be paid to keep pricing fair.

Flurry of blows can be performed with no weapons in the monk’s hands, one monk weapon, or two monk weapons, and always results in the same number of attacks.

I think these (non-official & incorrect) interpretation of the rules help to make the monk viable now.

My dexterity based monk still does a lot less damage, has a lot lower AC, and less hit points then the two weapon fighter. But has better reflex and will saves. However, at least with the brass knuckles he can hurt foes and try to help combat by getting the party rogues into flanking.

A role for the monk in the future

I think my biggest disappointment with the monk in pathfinder is the lack of combat mobility; that is to enact a flurry-of-blows the monk has to stay still. Their ability to hit-move-and-hit-again is lacking. Martial arts movies are full of heroes (aka Jackie Chan) who are constantly in motion during a fight; when faced with a room full of bag guys Jackie Chan will, punch one opponent, tumble through his legs, trip the next bad guy and leap over him, and kick the third while in the air, then finally land at the opposite side of the room. I think this ability to hit-move-hit-move should be the flavour of the vanilla monk in pathfinder. [i]The monk’s role should be a mobile striker, able to engage multiple opponents[\i].

My suggestion on how to do this would be to allow a limited number of 5 foot movements/steps during the monk’s full-attack action. This ability to move during a full-attack action would be something unique to the monk class (feats like step-up and strike provide this outside of the full-attack action).

Merge flurry of blows with two-weapon-fighting as the designers appear to want to do and have the monk gain two-weapon-fighting feat and later improved-two-weapon-fighting etc. During the monk’s full-attack action, grant the monk a number of 5-foot movements equal to their number of bonus attacks from two weapon fighting; allowing them hit-move-hit-move-hit-again again during the full-attack action. At higher levels allow the monk to replace the five-foot movements with five-foot steps (this replacement should be the monk’s choice). Total movement still has to be less than the monk’s speed. The class-feats for granting this ability to hit-move-hit ability should be progressive as monk levels increase to stop two-weapon-fighters from taking a one or two level dip into monk for this ability. This extra movement during a full-attack action should stack with the ability to take a five foot step.

Anyone want to have a go at designing this idea into a monk class?

Hi All,

Is there a definative ruling on lingering performance?

Does lingering performance cause the performance to continue after the bard has actively stopped performing? Or does it only allow the effects to continue.

For example, if a PC entered an area of a Lingering Performance would they receive the bonuses, or do they only apply to those PCs already within the area of the performance?

Can Saving Finale be used with a Lingering Performance?

Sincerely,

Stragen

PS: see some prior threads below.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/lingering-performance

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/howDoLingeringPerformanceAndTheFinaleSpellsInteract&page=1& ;source=search#1

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/whatExactlyIsThePointOfLingeringPerformanceAfterBard13&page=1& amp;source=search#7