Stormydove's page

Work as a team.

First I wanna say I love your role playing this!! It makes me happy to see you thinking out the reality of scroll sizes, material they are made of (will be interesting if he/she falls into water or lava), where they would hold them, how long to unroll. It is a thing of beauty that I enjoy in my games as well, makes me feel more immersed in the story and gives a great visual while describing the action.

Q:Is there a limit to how many spells can be on a scroll?

I would say one spell per scroll as it's not a spell book, but a scroll of one spell generally that you buy or pay for, not to say if he/she is scribeing them they could not do more.

Q: Retrieving a scroll from a bag is a move action and reading a scroll is either a standard action or the time it would take to normally cast a spell. Is this time lengthened if the scroll contains a set number of spells? For example, I can see a scroll with three spells not hindered by this, but what if the scroll has 10 spells on it?

Wouldn't this be more based on the number of spells allowed to be cast in a round than the time needed to cast say them all? How many dose this player intend on casting in one round? If there were lots I would up the time needed to do so, because reading through the scroll is like reading through the spell book to find the right one you want to cast and getting all the words out. You might have to limit him/her to so much per round 6 seconds.

Q: Part of the action economy of scrolls is explained: move action to retrieve and open, standard action to cast (for standard action spells), another move action to store and a second move action to retrieve a second scroll, if the character so choose. At this rate you are only releasing one spell every two rounds, equivalent to a heavy crossbow. Granted, you would cast a spell normally and then grab a scroll. Next round cast and then put away. Third round retrieve and caste, and finally fourth round store and cast a memorized spell to really maximize your round economy… but what if all of your scrolls are 10 feet in length? Can you really unroll and roll up these items so fast, while casting and storing and pulling and casting?

I thought that generally when a spell was cast that the scroll was no longer any good. The magical writing vanished as the magic was cast and released, in this case the PC would not need to store the scroll and that would free up the store action. If you were saying he/she had multiple spells per scroll than yes this is the downside and I will complicate it more, as how do they know at first glance which scroll they are pulling out in the heat of combat? Generally reaching into a bag blindly or into a cloak will produce a random scroll and remembering which has what spells on it is even harder. The only solution like you said would be to use the handy sack, but unless he/she has magical robes that act like the handy sack how do you know which one they are pulling out?

Q: Another question was how many scrolls could a wizard reasonably carry on her person? I do not mean stored in a bag of holding or handy haversack, but on their person. These scrolls are 8 ½ inches wide, but the leather straps or reinforcing rods are wider. Can you have two on your person before it would hinder movement? Five? Ten? Does it matter?

I would say most role play wizards get custom robes sewn up. They could either have one per sleeve (A space to tuck one in per sleeve), or have a bandoleer with loops in the leather holding maybe 4-6 max on their chest. If the bandoleer was magic, maybe pulling them off would be a free action.

I would love to know the results of your game and how it goes!

Stormydove wrote:

I am sure as well he may be cheating on somethings.

Not that this problem is really a rules issue, but that samsaran racial trait you mentioned, mystic past life, is widely believed to be incapable of adding spells to a spell list that already has them (like your player did with overwhelming presence).

That is exactly what happened

Stormydove wrote:

Without going into the details of what he was usiing (All back checked and legit), how do I tell him that the way he is playing is causing everyone else to have no fun and for the game to end early?

Firstly, tell him exactly that.

"Hi.

You made an amazing character that is entirely within the rules that we allowed, has amazing synergy between feats and racial abilities, and that you obviously put a lot of effort into. I appreciate that you went to this much effort in preparation to join our game.

Problem is, while your character is a great exercise of rules synergy, it is spectacularly unfun to have at the table. Don't get me wrong, your enjoyment of the game does matter, but as the GM my job is to make sure everyone is having fun at the table - myself included, lest I burnout and can the whole thing. And I can't do that with your character at the table; I can't scale things up to be a challenge to you without destroying the rest of the party, and they can't have fun at a game where their characters are largely irrelevant.

So again, I appreciate the effort you went to, but you've seen the rest of the party, and I need you to make a character who can be an equal member of the team. This will take more work and a lot of restraint on your part - and I'm sorry about that - but in the end it's the only thing that will work."

Avoid an arms race.

Avoid a complex background check - his build is probably illegal, but getting into Build Audits From Hell will just devour your free time while being fun for no one.

Just focus on getting him, as a player, to respect the style and power level of the current PC party and make something that can contribute, but doesn't outshine the rest of the party by an order of magnitude. It's not hard, it just requires restraint.

Yes I do not want to be fact checking all day or trying to out play him with builds at all. I do want to make him feel he didn't do anything wrong and that he made a great character, but ya that it doesn't fit in with the casual way all the PC's are playing.

Your right on about not outshining the other players (They do feel that way) and that would be wonderful if I can get him to act as say support or apply restraint, like knowing "Hey I can end this if it get's out of control, but I don't need to shut it down round one". That might be something where he see's it as a race or see's a need to avoid all possible damage or whatever.

I do agree with all of you that I have to bring it up (Which sucks to do) about his character being different than the others and maybe show him why it's affecting everyone. I know I have to do something and shouldn't let it get out of hand, I think the best advice everyone says so far is to get him to re make a character or like you said do more support to the party so they can shine with the advantage of his spells. hmmmmmmm

Stormydove wrote:

Johnnycat93 wrote:

Speak with him like a reasonable adult.

As the thread goes on someone will most likely discover that he's either outright cheating or suggest something that will easily shut him down, but nothing will be as painless or effective as simply speaking with the player and establishing the expectations of your game and your group. Besides, playing the Pathfinder arms race gets old quickly.

Yes I hate the arms race! I do want to talk to him aside, I just need to know what to say and not make him think I want to scale him back too much or nerf him unfairly. I am sure as well he may be cheating on somethings.

"Your character does not fit in with this game right now, maybe try [this], or you can even make a new character if you like."

Work with him to create a character that works with your game, don't put him off and tell him to figure it out. Even if he is bitter about losing his wizard, people become more attached to something that is worked on collaboratively.

Also, he's good at the game so ask him to explain things to you before the game starts, so you can understand what he's doing. This will help create the sense of you two as equals (because a GM who is a control freak is easy to resent). If anything, you can learn something from his that will help your own system mastery. There's also nothing wrong with having a strong character and that's something you'll need to accept approaching this. The trick is just making sure whatever character is still restrained within the group, which can be playstyle just as much as mechanics.

Very good points I guess I will have to talk to him and point out these things and see how it goes. He did originally make the character on his own so I guess working together on a new one might help him see somethings from my point of view as well.

I do get him to explain his stuff to me, but so far each week it's been new stuff after new stuff. I just need to know where it's all coming from.

Thanks, good advice.

realize this is why you don't allow everything.

Ya I know, but for the others they liked this because they could expand from the generic classes and things to add in some flavor and fun stuff. But yes it only takes one to abuse it.

I've played numerous campaigns with power gamers of varying skill, but one in particular was a notorious douche. He had this triple multiclass craft magic arms and armor one-level-dip-for-power beast of a PC that after looting the bodies of dead PCs on numerous times ended up with a WBL of about 6 times what he should have had, dominating every single encounter. The DM and I had to counter-powergame the keep it balanced, it became exhausting, and the DM actually ended up begging me to kill him in game.

Long story short, a Gate spell directly into Abaddon is not how you want your games to go. Settle this QUICKLY, out of game, before it gets out of hand.

Thank you, yes I don't want to match him over and over and spend my week working on stats and ways to counter what I think he will do either. That just sucks.

Speak with him like a reasonable adult.

As the thread goes on someone will most likely discover that he's either outright cheating or suggest something that will easily shut him down, but nothing will be as painless or effective as simply speaking with the player and establishing the expectations of your game and your group. Besides, playing the Pathfinder arms race gets old quickly.

Yes I hate the arms race! I do want to talk to him aside, I just need to know what to say and not make him think I want to scale him back too much or nerf him unfairly. I am sure as well he may be cheating on somethings.

Playing Pathfinder and the party is level 11. We had some new players come in and one guys is playing a wizard who is ending every encounter before they begin with spells that he is legally allowed to use through the use of abilities, feats, etc, etc.

For example tonight I ran an encounter where two CR11 demons attacked the party in a room. The wizard (Who always act's first, by stacking his abilities, feats, familiars, etc to get around a 30 on initiative) cast a spell that would be a level 9 spell (He cast as level 6 bard, using something with racial background Samsaran) and made both bow and get the helpless condition where the party then just coup de grace them and the encounter was over before round one finished and anyone but three people got to act. *Oh he also over came their SR of 21 with his 40 that he rolled because of abilities too*

Without going into the details of what he was usiing (All back checked and legit), how do I tell him that the way he is playing is causing everyone else to have no fun and for the game to end early?

The other players approached me about his use of these spells and abilities that seem overpowered as they can come no where near, merrily building their PC's from the book casually and not power building. If I also up the enemies to deal with him, they would slay the rest of the party in seconds!

I can't think of how to either tell him to hold back and let others act, up the encounters but not kill everyone else in seconds, or just write a ton more game knowing combat will take less than a sentence to get through.

Any ideas?

Amazing! Thank you, what wonderful characters

We're just talking, no word of anything new and probably not for a long time.

Thanks for the info, very helpful

Note that rulebooks are not (unlike WotC) Paizo's primary RPG income stream. That, as well as the limited release schedule, reduces the incentive for "starting over" every 3-5 years.

Fantastic, makes me feel safer about jumping in!

We're just talking, no word of anything new and probably not for a long time.

Horray!

Just saw someone post a thread about a 2e version of pathfinder, it seemed like discussion but hoping that as were jumping into pathfinder I hope there isn't really talk of a new edition already!

That's why were dumping D&D, due to the amount of new editions coming out and why we love 3.5 but are hoping for a much cleaner experience in Pathfinder. So tell me there is no official talk but just rumors plzzzzzz!

So anyways on to my next question which I looked up and totally got the answer too, but since I am typing away I'm a ask.

I see that there is no official Epic levels, (Which is a bummer seeing as our highest in our group is 28th) so that answers that. Unless there are epic rules in an official book and if so then point me that way.

However, what I am asking is this book "Mythic Adventurers" is this Epic level per-say? As in? Like, if you got to say 20th then (I dunno, never read it yet) went Mythic, are you basically going Epic?

Forgive a noober gamer girl for her lack of info, however soon I shall be very Pathfinder savvy.

Thanks Community!