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What happens when a flying creature gets stunned? What about if its only dazed? Does it matter whether its natural flight with wings or magical flight?
It looks to me like if you lose all your actions while flying, you're in trouble.
The Fly skill specifies:
Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed.
There's a table for a variety of things you can use a Fly check for, most notably a DC 10 check to stay flying if you move less than half your speed, and a DC 15 check to hover, ie not move at all.
Making Fly checks is specified as part of your action. Specifically:
Action
None. A Fly check doesn’t require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
If you can't take any actions at all because you're stunned, I'd probably not allow a Fly check to hover, and you're not going to be moving because you lost your action. I'd probably say Dazed allowed you to hover, since you can still defend yourself properly.
So I would say Stunned means you don't move half your speed on your action, and can't make the Fly check to avoid falling. Therefore you fall.
Dazed would require a DC 15 Fly check to hover on your turn. If you fail, you fall.
There's nothing in the Fly spell that indicates that it allows you to ignore the mechanics of the Fly skill - in fact, it gives you a bonus to Fly checks, presumably to represent increased maneuverability. Therefore I'd say nonmagical vs magical wouldn't matter.
Design Manager
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It looks to me like if you lose all your actions while flying, you're in trouble.
The Fly skill specifies:
Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed.There's a table for a variety of things you can use a Fly check for, most notably a DC 10 check to stay flying if you move less than half your speed, and a DC 15 check to hover, ie not move at all.
Making Fly checks is specified as part of your action. Specifically:
Action
None. A Fly check doesn’t require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
If you can't take any actions at all because you're stunned, I'd probably not allow a Fly check to hover, and you're not going to be moving because you lost your action. I'd probably say Dazed allowed you to hover, since you can still defend yourself properly.
So I would say Stunned means you don't move half your speed on your action, and can't make the Fly check to avoid falling. Therefore you fall.
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I would think in that case the fly check is being made in response to you losing altitude for not moving and is a reaction-based check, the same as making an Acrobatics check to negate fall damage. He's basically just balancing himself. Given the differences between Stunned and Paralyzed, I'd allow the check. It's the difference between being hit really hard in the head and keeping your feet, and being turned into a statue. Since Stunned is the more severe form of Dazed, I'd allow the same DC 10 Fly check for that.
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If you cannot take an action to fly or hover you will fall. Even the fly spell says it takes as much effort as walking and both effects prevent that.This is incorrect. Neither the stunned nor the dazed condition says anything about falling prone or being unable to remain flying/breathing/etc.
Compare this to paralyzed:
A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A paralyzed swimmer can't swim and may drown.Note that it specifies "a winged creature", not just any flying creature. If you're flying via magic and you get paralyzed, you just remain flying.
Nice of you to ignore, "creature can take no actions" and make up statements to counter.
Paralyzed and flying with the spell is fine since you can concentrate. But it wasn't the question asked and has nothing to do with stun or daze.
For everyone else, I could see some sort of glide roll for daze. I still have trouble with it in combat but wouldn't argue over it. If you can't handle walking how can you handle flying in combat when you have been dodging, turning and looking around, breathing fire, casting spells, or hitting things.
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I think the part about as a reaction is referring to avoiding taking falling damage, collisions while flying, and attacked while flying uses of the skill. Hover and other flying maneuvers are not reactive. The action section is for the entire fly skill, so just because it says "or as a reaction to a situation" doesn't automatically mean every possible use of the fly skill is a reaction to a situation.
I would think in that case the fly check is being made in response to you losing altitude for not moving and is a reaction-based check, the same as making an Acrobatics check to negate fall damage. He's basically just balancing himself. Given the differences between Stunned and Paralyzed, I'd allow the check. It's the difference between being hit really hard in the head and keeping your feet, and being turned into a statue. Since Stunned is the more severe form of Dazed, I'd allow the same DC 10 Fly check for that.
I could see that easily too. It's vague as to whether or not they should get the opportunity to make the DC 15 Fly check to hover. It's essentially a reaction, but it's unclear as to how limiting dazed and stunned are supposed to be for reactions, other than implying it by stating that paralyzed means you fall and not having the same text in stunned and dazed.
Note that the DC 15 'didn't move half your speed' Fly check DC suggests to me that they had to have moved some, or there wouldn't be a higher DC entry for hovering. If you lose your entire action and don't move at all, by my reading you have to make a DC 15 roll to hover, not DC 10 because you didn't move half your speed.
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Design Manager
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I could see that easily too. It's vague as to whether or not they should get the opportunity to make the DC 15 Fly check to hover. It's essentially a reaction, but it's unclear as to how limiting dazed and stunned are supposed to be for reactions, other than implying it by stating that paralyzed means you fall and not having the same text in stunned and dazed.
Note that the DC 15 'didn't move half your speed' Fly check DC suggests to me that they had to have moved some, or there wouldn't be a higher DC entry for hovering. If you lose your entire action and don't move at all, by my reading you have to make a DC 15 roll to hover, not DC 10 because you didn't move half your speed.
I could probably see the DC 15 over the DC 10 check, your reasoning seems sound to me.
Here is how i read it, RAW:
Paralyzed and winged: fall immediately.
Stunned/dazed and either: nothing immediately. On your turn you can take no actions, so you cannot move 1/2 speed. You must make a DC15 fly check to remain hovering at the end of your turn since you did not move. you can do this because:
Action: None. A Fly check doesn't require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
This is where i see the difference between "can take no action" and "cannot move or act." Since you cannot take an action to move you must "react" and make a hover check. Keep in mind, paralyzed and stunned reduce your dex and make this check harder.
Paralyzed and Magical: fall on your turn. since you cannot "move or act" you cannot even "react" and make the hover check.
Here is where it gets tricky because by RAW there is no explicit consequence to failing a check listed in the Flying Maneuver table when you are using magic. Hover being one of those.
If you are winged and fail by 5 or more you plummet, but it does not say anything for magic, nor does it say what happens if you fail by less than 5.
I am seeing some holes in the fly rules.
Ok, what use of Fly skill can't be described as "reactive", then?
If I'm flying through a dungeon and encounter a sharp turn, making fly check to turn is "reacting" to what's ahead. At least as much as hovering to "react" to being unable to move or act is.
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Design Manager
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Ok, what use of Fly skill can't be described as "reactive", then?
If I'm flying through a dungeon and encounter a sharp turn, making fly check to turn is "reacting" to what's ahead. At least as much as hovering to "react" to being unable to move or act is.
"Turn greater than 45° by spending 5 feet of movement- DC 15
Turn 180° by spending 10 feet of movement- DC 20 "Those are both actions initiated by you that require Fly checks.
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Flight and Magical Flight: Can a paralyzed or stunned creature keep flying with magical flight? Does a creature with magical flight not apply bonuses or penalties to Fly checks because it doesn’t have a “natural” fly speed? Does flying make a creature immune to being flat-footed?
No, any creature that loses all actions can’t take an action to attempt a Fly check to hover in place and thus automatically falls. That includes a paralyzed, stunned, or dazed creature. Magical flight doesn’t act any differently, even for paralysis, as it isn’t a purely mental action. A creature with 0 Dexterity can’t fly, and paralysis sets a creature’s Dexterity to 0. Despite the fact that the Fly skill mentions that bonuses and penalties from maneuverability apply to creatures with natural fly speeds, they apply for any fly speed. If they didn’t apply to creatures that gained flight artificially or through magic, then those maneuverabilities (like the listed good maneuverability for the fly spell) would have no game effect. Finally, the statement “You are not considered flat-footed while flying” means that flying (unlike balancing using Acrobatics or climbing) doesn’t automatically make you flat-footed or force you to lose your Dexterity bonus to AC; it doesn’t mean that flying makes you immune to being caught flat-footed.
posted December 2015
A thread whose last post was made in 2013 isn't very useful when the 2015 FAQ gives the official reply.