SoylentG's page

I think you've got two problems: First, the AP doesn't hang together as cohesively as it should. The first four books rely on the PCs caring about the fate of Sandpoint: The town is constantly under threat, and the PCs only need to react to the Big Bad's attacks. In book five, however, once the threat of the Scribbler is dealt with the AP expects the PCs to get proactive. If your PCs are mercenaries or haven't developed a personal enmity for Karzoug by that point, you'll have trouble getting them to do the legwork required to take the fight to Xin Shalast.

As early as Book 2, I'd have the Pathfinder Society take an interest in the PCs: Venture Captain Shelia Heidmarch should reach out to the newfound Heroes of Sandpoint regarding the Catacombs of Wrath and any of the Thassilonian relics or lore they've recovered. At some point, possibly after uncovering the Thassilonian Library in book 4, if the PCs have been upfront about their discoveries she should either offer them membership into the Society or negotiate with them to arrange access for the Society to the Library. Lady Heidmarch, given access to the Thassilonian lore, is probably in a unique position to use her connections with the nobility of Magnimmar to persuade the Lord Mayor that Karzoug is an eminent threat to all of Varisia. At that point, Magnimmar should be willing to convene a war council and bankroll a fact-finding mission to Rimeskull. A new PC could be introduced as a Pathfinder Society expert at any point in this process.

The second problem is that your players seem to expect you to provide them with motivation for their characters to adventure. How about this: They're adventurers. Failing any personal investment, the characters should always find loot to be compelling. Here's a section from my "house rules" handout I give to new players:

Motivation Your characters are unique, as are their backstories and goals. However, they all have one thing in common: They are all Adventurers. Adventurers put their life at risk to accumulate wealth. Whatever your character's personal goal, accumulation of wealth is a means to that end. Want to raise an army to defend your homeland? That costs money. Want revenge on someone who did you wrong? Finding them and orchestrating their demise will be expensive. Just out for new sights and experiences? Even a hedonist needs coin for meals and lodging. There are no "reluctant heroes" at the table: When the game starts, your character is already convinced that Adventuring is the best way to pursue their individual goal.

I think one symptom of a straight, as it comes, run-through is the seeming disconnectedness of the various layers of Karzoug's minions. Some of that is natural and right, but you have to go out of your way to show the players the rhyme and reason to much of it. Saving it for a big exposition at the end, or indeed after the end, is not very satisfying. We spent four YEARS playing that AP. Realizing the connections after the fact, and largely out...

I feel the same way, or even worse: I have a bad habit of only prepping the next "book" once the previous book is complete, so sometimes I don't even realize the connections as we're playing through.

One of the things I'd put in my hypothetical "DMs Guide to RotRL" is a Foreshadowing Guide. For each book it'd clearly indicate opportunities to foreshadow elements that will pay off in later books.

Other wishlist items;
- A guide to "What the PCs Should Know About Thassilon, and When They Should Know It."
- A brief update for each book about how Sandpoint has changed since the last chapter, and how the PCs reputations evolve and spread.
- An Org Chart for Karzoug's forces, detailing the roles and connections between the Lamias, the Giants, the Goblins, the Skinsaw Cult, and various human forces
- A Dramatis Personae section detailing all the NPCs, including individual motivations/goals
- Notes on the themes of each chapter: When the chapters were first published serially, there were great notes from each author about their inspirations and intentions. Knowing that the Kreeg Homestead is a Texas Chainsaw Massacre homage, or that all of Book 4 is an escalating series of races-against-the-clock is something that could be spelled out for GMs.
- Restored cut content. I'd love to see the Lamia's riverboat gambling den from book three, and the notes on dealing with the individual Runeforge factions through roleplaying rather than combat.

My group only plays twice a month, for 3-4 hours a session (we're all adults with jobs and families), so we're just hitting Book 5 after 3 years of play. I've also got the challenge of having no Arcane casters in the party, and no characters particularly interested in Thassilonian history, so it's been a challenge getting the characters invested in the Karzoug's machinations.

What my characters/players are invested in is Sandpoint; The characters have been devoting a large chunk of their wealth to the "economic/political minigame" of becoming members of the Mercantile League - establishing the party as an official Adventurers' Guild, buying property, rebuilding the destroyed mills, and repairing the town following the Giant attack in book 4.

Given the span we've been playing, I occasionally run "side adventures" for lower-level characters to give the players a chance to try out other classes/builds. These characters are young recruits to the Sandpoint Adventurers' Guild, and deal with sidequests that don't seem to be connected to ongoing metaplot of Karzoug's return. These are the characters that explored Chopper's Isle and the Vault of Greed (both from Wayfinder #7).

I ran the Stone Giant attack on Sandpoint at the start of Book 4 as a 13th Warrior homage; The players had forewarning of the attack (as revealed at the end of Book 3), so they had an opportunity to prepare the town's defenses. I gave them access to the town gaurd, the Sandpoint Militia, as well as some noteable NPCs and all their PCs. I printed out Chinchbug's map of Sandpoint and overlaid a centimeter-scale grid, where each square equaled 30'. Given the scale of the map, the players knew they'd have to break their forces into groups and stage them at logical defensive points within the town in order to prevent the most mayhem. Then I played the whole raid out as one big combat, using a spreadsheet to keep track when (and where on the map) each event began.

When the dust settled, the players got to choose which of their PCs they wanted to play next; Their high-level PCs took on the mission to track the fleeing giants to Jorgenfist, while their lower-level PCs traveled to Magnimmar: During the attack on Sandpoint a sorceress had stolen a flaming sword from the Temple of Abadar and escaped riding a red dragon, and the temple wanted it returned. Both segments of the game took place at the same time in-campaign, with the players choosing to follow the lead in Magnimmar first and then play out the Journey to Jorgenfist.

I ran the lower-level PCs through the Seven Swords of Sin, revealing at the end that Tirana had been collecting runeswords for Mokmurian on the behalf of Karzoug (the red dragon she rides being one of Longtooth's clutch-mates). The journey to/from Kaer Maga having taken a month each way, these PCs return to Sandpoint and on their first night back home they're awakened by an earthqueake and sounds of screaming townsfolk! Cue cliffhanger!

We then switched to the higher-level PCs, who I ran through King of the Storval Stair followed by the assault on Jorgenfist. After they'd defeated Mokmurian, scattered his army, and secured the Thassilonian Library, we switched back to the lower-level PCs. Rather than play out the Scribbler's Lair as written, with the PCs being asked by Mayor Deverin to explore the sinkholes after-the-fact, I'm having them run their lower-level characters through the earthquake as it happens. To add a little spice, I'm having a variety of mutant Sinspawn boil out of each sinkhole as it appears:

In my new version of this portion of the campaign, the Scribbler has chained the demon servant that Lamashtu gave him over a Runewell similar to the one found in Erylium's lair. He's also exposed the demon to the Waters of Lamashtu (also from Catacombs of Wrath) turning it into a creature I'm calling the Womb of Sin: Constantly oozing wounds on the bound demon drip into the Runewell, full of souls of the casualties of the Stone Giant raid. Twisted Sinspawn abominations (Sinspawn with Skirmisher, Controller, Artillery, and Brute templates pasted on) emerge, growing in number until released by the earthquake.

The plan is to have the PCs fight their way across Sandpoint, dealing with Sinspawn incursions until they can rally the militia and plan a counter-attack. From there they'll storm the revised Scribbler's lair, which culminates in a boss fight where the Womb of Sin acts as a Monster Generator and the Scribbler bounces around slinging spells. It should hopefully be a bit more tactically interesting that the encounter-as-written.

In my campaign, I thought it was a bit of a waste for Karzoug to wait until the last books of the campaign before reaching out to the PCs. I've modified the Sihedron Medallion in a number of ways from how they're presented in the AE, without changing the mechanics.

- Anyone wearing a Sihedron Medallion can "see" the death of a creature marked with the Sihedron Rune: When slain, a burst of violet energy emerges from the chest of a marked creature and arcs skyward, heading vaguely northeast (to Kaer Maga).

[This serves to make the PCs more hesitant about killing every intelligent enemy they come across; In my campaign, they finally realized after Stones over Sandpoint that sending more souls to the mysterious BBEG is probably not in their best interest. Now they're starting to ask how to remove the Rune from incapacitated foes.]

- When the wearer of a Sihedron Medallion is slain, their spirit is imprinted onto the medallion. Anyone who wears the medallion from that point onward suffers vivid dreams where the original owner appears and attempts to subtly persuade them to continue to act in Karzoug's interests, usually by appealing to whichever Sin drives them.

[In my campaign, the Lustful character has been wearing Nualia's medallion since the first book, and he's been having some pretty awkward dreams. On the eve of Stones over Sandpoint, Nualia revealed to him that two of his fellow PCs (who just starting wearing medallions of their own) are marked with their own sins (Wrath and Greed, respectively).]

So, by me, there was a month between the attack on the Fort and Grobaras being informed.

I think I'll go with something similar:

Timeline of the Fall

8 weeks ago: Black Arrows on the Northern patrol route spot forge fires on Jorgenfist. Half the patrol heads off to investigate, but do not return.
7 weeks ago: Lamatar leaves on his communion walk, Jakadros leaves on patrol to investigate the missing scouts.
6 weeks ago: Rannick falls. Jakadros' patrol returns, but is cut off from the fort by the Kreeg ogres. Jakadros attempts to retreat to Turtleback for aid, but is waylaid by the Grauls. Ominous rain begins.
5 weeks ago: The Paradise sinks. Mayor Shreed sends word to Ilsurian about the disaster. Also noted is the lack of visitors from Fort Rannick.
4 weeks ago: An official from Ilsurian arrives in Turtleback, travelling with Magnimmar's monthly supply caravan for Fort Rannick. The caravan begins the return journey to Magnimmar with news of the Black Arrows' absence.
3 weeks ago: The official from Ilsurian concludes his half-hearted inquest, ruling the Paradise's sinking a tragic accident.
2 week ago: The supply caravan arrives in Magimmar and passes its news to Mayor Grobaras.
Today: PCs arrive in Turtleback Ferry.

Fort Logistics

- The Fort maintains a minimum complement of 24 fighting men and women in the fort at all times, with 16 on duty and 8 off.
- Duty at the fort consists of standing watch at the walls, patrolling within line-of-sight of the fort, training, and maintenance of gear and the fort.
- An additional 12 soldiers are on long-range patrol outside the fort at any given time. Patrols do not leave the fort at any set interval, for fear of creating a pattern the ogres might exploit.
- Assignments are divvied up on a volunteer, first-come-first-served basis, making for a somewhat haphazard schedule. A Black Arrow's typical month will see them at the fort for two weeks, and on long-range patrol the other two. Consideration is usually given so that no soldier is outside the fort two weeks in a row.
- Regulars are those soldiers who've served the Black Arrows with loyalty and been voted into the fold by their peers in a ceremony held in the Fort tribunal chamber. Regulars are expected to mentor/discipline Recruits, and the current makeup of the Arrows ensures that Recruits never outnumber Regulars on an assignment at any given time.

Patrol Duty

Long-range patrols consist of two routes:
- The Northern Route, which skirts the northern edge of the Kreegwood and provides recon of the Skulltaker trolls of Skull's Crossing and the ogres of the Hook Mountain clanhold. This patrol generally lasts a week, and consists of 8 Black Arrows in two teams of 4 (2 Regulars and 2 Initiates per team).
- The Southern Route, which covers the roads from Rannick to Pendaka along the eastern shore of Claybottom lake. This is considered "light" duty for a 4-man patrol; It usually also lasts a week, though the Arrows spend at least two days of it in Turtleback collecting supplies and taking R&R.

Final Disposition of the Black Arrows
Given the above, here's the final fate of the Arrows:
4 scouts lost investigating Jorgenfist
24 soldiers slain defending the fort
2 members of Jakadros' patrol died in a rearguard action covering the retreat from Fort Rannick
2 members of Jakadros' patrol slain by the Grauls
4 survivors rescued by the PCs after 6 weeks of captivity.

On Monday I'll share a version 3 of the file but then we'd start defining better where to go and how to reach that destination.

I'd been thinking it might be smart to separate the info on Sandpoint into its own document: Players will be returning to Sandpoint throughout each chapter, so having all the info thrown in with Burnt Offerings makes that chapter's document unwieldy.

I've been thinking about fleshing out each NPC with notes ala RMcD's NPC Tables concept, with information how NPC's develop as the chapters progress. Jacen also had some good ideas about fleshing out individual NPCs. I also have been putting together a gallery of suitable Sandpoint NPC portraits for my own game that might be worth picking over.

Also, I was thinking of writing up foreshadowing hints for each chapter, which kind of ties into the ways the NPCs develop.

In my game, with a bunch of Pathfinder newbies, Erylium was used to demonstrate what the "next step up" in encounter difficulty. She's got DR, which introduces the concept of carrying silver/cold iron weapons (well within a pc's budget even at that level). She's got invisibility, which gives the PCs a chance to brainstorm methods for defeating it. She's got spells that target saves, which show the PCs which classes will be vulnerable to similar attacks based on their save progressions. Erylium is actually a rather forgiving fight: PCs can safely ignore he while dealing with her minions for the most part, and she can't really put out any damage on her own. In return, her regen lets PCs beat on her until they get the hint that there *must* a better way to take her on.

Finally, I used Erylium to introduce the idea of *being prepared*. Using Knowledge checks to get an idea of what they're facing, rather than wading in and using the same default attack over and over. In my game, a PC received a Harrow reading from Madame Mvashti that hinted at a demonic influence below the town, and the PCs wisely went to Father Zantus for advice. A scroll of Weapons Against Evil was something he had handy, but wouldn't have supplied if the PCs hadn't thought to ask ;-)

Remember that the original entrance was another one which changes the order of rooms (+ this is no MMORPG with trash mobs and a boss fight).

Ruyan.

She started the fight rather imperious that her "kingdom" had been invaded. When the first wave of Wrathspawn closed in on the party fighter, she told him that they could "smell the Wrath on him," and that he must have slain "many of the half-elf's goblins."

As the fight wore on, she dropped some hints about the Scribbler, and the ages that had passed since the catacombs had collapsed. She told the PCs that soon her runewell would be overflowing with the wrath of "innocent souls, brutally ripped from life" in the "world above," and she'd finally lead them to freedom.

As the fight turned against her, she tried to bargain, telling the PCs she'd teach them "the Mother's secrets," just as she'd taught the "silver-haired witch."

I didn't have her come out and explain any of it directly, but here's stuff she hinted at:
- Killings in Sandpoint refill the runewells and allow for Sinspawn to be summoned
- Sinspawn hunt those that indulge in their sin
- Both Nualia and Erylium serve Lamashtu, and that Nualia was Lamashtu's "chosen"
- The Catacombs were originally the home of her master, the Scribbler
- Erylium had taught Nualia the ritual she was using to excise her celestial heritage

Nobody had a high enough Knowledge skill to get the connection between "innocent souls" and the Barghest's favored food, but I was prepared to reveal that as well.

Oh I also wanted to add about Sandpoint the fact that one PC grew up there so I try to have him know a lot of the cast, he went to school with X or his old friend is Y, stuff like that. Also their contacts are minor people I liked their entry of, but minor players; I listed them earlier.

One thing is that one of them have a faction, and I need to figure out where to place possible TPA bonuses that make sense. I made some stuff for in town but I plan on putting in bonus potential in the adventure; so far I have a few: like a virisian caravan was attacked in the raid and goblins abducted one or two, stopping a group of goblins from waylaying the roads, helping the mayor of magnimar to get caravan trade contacts for the faction. Trying for more.

It never hurts to take a look at the Community Created Stuff thread and borrow liberally. I put some text lists together for my own reference, and Yossarian polished them into something that could almost be it's own Sandpoint supplement.

I've been trying to think of ways to get the PCs invested with the town in other ways, but I haven't been able to come up with much.

So, I made getting the PCs invested one of themes of our RotRL campaign. I specified that any character concepts would be welcome, but all they PCs had one thing in common: They had never lived up to their potential, never tasted true glory, and were altogether the dregs of the "adventuring" life.

The game opened with the PCs arriving in Magnimar and signing on as cheap caravan guards with an unscrupulous merchant for the 2-day travel along the goblin-infested Lost Coast Road to Sandpoint. As they were getting ready to leave the city, they overheard a dandy from Absalom arguing with a Magnimar gate guard, who was attempting to persuade the dandy that it was too dangerous to travel alone. The dandy laughed off the gaurd's suggestion, and departed moments before the PCs left themselves.

Midway along their journey, the PCs found the dandy's horse wandering the woods alone - The party Ranger tracked it's erstwhile owner to a small goblin camp, where the dandy was roasting over a spit. After dispatching the goblins, the PCs investigated the dandy's saddlebags, and learned:

- That the dandy was Lord Vancil, a minor noble who had donated his inheritance to the effort to rebuild Sandpoint Cathedral. In exchange, Father Zanthus had promised him the title to the temporary chapel the town had been using during the reconstruction.
- That Lord Vancil fancied himself a member of the Pathfinder Society, and had told Father Zanthus that he intended to set a new Lodge in Sandpoint, the better to discover the secrets of Old Light
- That Sheila Heidmarch, the Ventrue Captain of the Pathfinder Society in Magnimar, most definitely did *not* consider him a Pathfinder, and warned him against using the name of the Society in his future endeavors.

The party's thief, a halfling con-man, immediately conceived a plan: The party's fighter would pass himself off as Lord Vancil and take possession of the property in Sandpoint. They'd then sell the property once they'd bled the town dry with simple cons and schemes.

Of course, once the goblins attacked the consecration ceremony, the PCs were forced to play the part of heroes. Now they're finding it hard not to live up to the town's expectations of them as the Heroes of Sandpoint.

Cross-posted from Nynphaiel's advice request thread:

I've just started running RotRL for the first time, and one of the thing that I find crucial is having all the information for Sandpoint at my fingertips. As much as love the design work that went into the Anniversary edition, it's not the best laid-out for quick reference. I went through the Sandpoint info, and put together the following cheat-sheets:

Sandpoint NPCs - This is an alphabetical list of NPCs (by first name), with summaries of the details presented in the Anniversary edition. All the stats were pulled from the Community templates for HeroLab. 16 pages.

Sandpoint Resources - A shorter (2 page) summary of the resources available to PCs in Sandpoint: Local experts listed by their area of expertise, Mentors listed by class, and Goods & Services.

Sandpoint Info - Another short (3 page) document with lists of some of the more pertinent info for Sandpoint: Who makes up the Sandpoint Mercantile League and other significant families in town, a list of the Chopper's notable victims*, a list of the local Goblin tribes (and their heroes and territories), and a list of the gods with shrines in the Cathedral.

Feel free to use these lists: I probably got even more out of making them up than you will reading them, because I had to read over the Sandpoint material multiple times to get everything down. It gave me a much better understanding of the ties between the characters, and what role they play in the AP.

* I included Das Korvut's wife and child from the excellent Chopper's Isle adventure in the list of Chopper's victims.

I've just started running RotRL for the first time, and one of the thing that I find crucial is having all the information for Sandpoint at my fingertips. As much as love the design work that went into the Anniversary edition, it's not the best laid-out for quick reference. I went through the Sandpoint info, and put together the following cheat-sheets:

Sandpoint NPCs - This is an alphabetical list of NPCs (by first name), with summaries of the details presented in the Anniversary edition. All the stats were pulled from the Community templates for HeroLab. 16 pages.

Sandpoint Resources - A shorter (2 page) summary of the resources available to PCs in Sandpoint: Local experts listed by their area of expertise, Mentors listed by class, and Goods & Services.

Sandpoint Info - Another short (3 page) document with lists of some of the more pertinent info for Sandpoint: Who makes up the Sandpoint Mercantile League and other significant families in town, a list of the Chopper's notable victims*, a list of the local Goblin tribes (and their heroes and territories), and a list of the gods with shrines in the Cathedral.

Feel free to use these lists: I probably got even more out of making them up than you will reading them, because I had to read over the Sandpoint material multiple times to get everything down. It gave me a much better understanding of the ties between the characters, and what role they play in the AP.

* I included Das Korvut's wife and child from the excellent Chopper's Isle adventure in the list of Chopper's victims.