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SPOILER! SPOILER! SPOILER!!
My best friend (and one of my players) just got me the anniversary edition of the RotRL hardback for my birthday to run for my group, and I wanted to make this campaign the best I've ever run for them. I have been GMing for almost fifteen years and know that the best ideas come from everywhere, so I was wondering if anyone had good ideas to expand upon the adventure as written; not huge sidequests or other non-related stuff, I plan on sticking to the script and theme of the game, more interesting ideas you may have or stuff that happened in your game that was cool that I could try. I have noticed a general lack of difficulty with the encounters as written, and have so far spiced up/ tuned up the encounters as we have progressed, such as adding a Skeletal Champ to the fray in the desecrated tomb of Tobyn's.
But in example I found a thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2hvni?Glassworks-Legacy where the people talked of making great ideas off of what comes of the Glassworks after Tsuto; the ideas were amazing, Titus Scarnetti trying to jockey for ownership, Magnimar business people getting involved, all great ideas for any GM running RotRL.
If anyone has any great ideas/stories I would like to hear them, I have the PC's on medium I can add traps/monsters/RP encounters as I like to a limited extent. I tend to like to add little things to encounters to swing action economy or traps for control.
Another example I have of what I'd like to hear is something I thought up, making possible chase scenes for villains such as Nualia trying to escape thisletop using the chase rules in the Gamemastery Guide. You guys get the gist, let's make this epic for my friends who gave me such a great birthday gift!
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One thing I did was incorporate the Mythic Rules into the game - using the Runewell under Sandpoint as the vector of Ascension. I'd take my time at increasing the Mythic however - while Mal under Thistletop makes an excellent first Trial (and Tier 2), you could probably get away with not giving the third Tier until the end of Book 3, and the fourth Tier at the end of Book 5.
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Another thing is to use the Campaign Traits and require your players to take one Campaign Trait as part of the two Traits for beginning characters. This has benefited MY group as the player who took Merchant Family ended up (on a whim of mine) being related to the Scarnetti family as a bastard offspring with mutual hate between him and the Scarnettis. :) It's truly hilarious!
Mostly though your friends will offer adventure hooks that you can build on. We can offer all sorts of suggestions, but your players are the ones who will truly give you the seeds to grow a great campaign.
Pertinants: my PC's are built at twenty points, they are all long time players and have a well built, semi-optimized party of five. They all have backstories tying them to the plot, I'll give an overview;
Hawk; male Varisian Rogue 1 CG, in the Varisian Wanderers faction from the faction guide. Contacts so far: Niska and Koya Mvashti.
(would be cool to be able to incorporate stuff into the existing adventure to give him TPA bonuses because he wants a "tachey")
Silva Tobyn, Human male cleric of Desna 1, CG member of the temple in the sandpoint cathedral, son of Ezakiel Tobyn and brother of Nualia. Contacts so far: Abstalar Zantus, Koya Mvashti.
Arneg Ruinstone Dwarf male barbarian 1, CG. Drinker and rabble-rouser, kind of like a barbarian version of Cain from Kung Fu, heard Sandpoint had trouble with goblin, and he loves killing goblins. Contacts so far: Das Korvut, Daviren Hosk. In first two sessions has made "advances" to Ameiko.
Alestra, female Aasimar Sorcerer 1, LN aberrant bloodline. From Magnimar, came to research thassilonian ruins after her powers were discovered; has an aboleth shaped birthmark. Contacts so far: Brodert Quink, Sabyl Sorn, Chask Haladan and the other bookish types that hang out at the Curious Goblin.
Smoke, male Sylph Druid 1, CN of the Sanos forest, Contacts so far: none in Sandpoint, Lamatar Braydin and Myriana from later in the Hook Mountain Massacre.
Thank you so much for responding Tangent 101; I am probably going to stay away from the mythic rules (although great suggestion and I'm not going to rule it out) as it would require me to overhaul nearly every combat encounter significantly to just keep up with the Pcs abilities in a scrap, adding mythic tiers to existing NPC's would be mandatory, especially the "bosses", although that sounds like your game will be epic.
Mostly though your friends will offer adventure hooks that you can build on. We can offer all sorts of suggestions, but your players are the ones who will truly give you the seeds to grow a great campaign
Couldn't agree more, they already made great characters that tie them into the story, and in the two sessions we had, they made great and hilarious choices which furthered the plot.
The druid smoke told Amele Barret from the monster in my closet encounter when she asked where her husband was, he said "all over your childs room..." lol
The sorcerer took right to Aldern Foxglove, and in two days have become a "power-couple".
The dwarf is trying everything to get together with Ameiko, but with a 7 CHA, it's all pretty crude.
All in all, it's going great so far; I am just one of those people who will take any good advice.
Mal would be an epic first trial though
I wonder if there is a sort of quick and dirty way to add mythic tiers to encounters if I were to go down that path though; maybe just some formulae I could just "add onto" existing encounters to kind of make a bare-bones mythic encounter out of an ordinary one.
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The main thing I think it needs is more active/less scripted NPCs; your idea of Nualia fleeing Thistletop is a good one. Eg I just ran session 2 and had Bruthazmus kidnap a local girl, Lena Tesarani (a younger sister of the Pixie's Kitten madam) during the Sandpoint raid; the PCs along with Ameiko & Shalelu ambushed him and the goblins with him on the Lost Coast road, killed him and rescued the girl. I also had a lot of extra goblins during the raid running around doing stuff.
I plan to use other NPCs more actively too; when I played Burnt Offerings as a player I felt that the NPCs were too static (sitting in dungeon room X waiting to be killed) and that this hurt the game, so I'm making them as dynamic as possible and not worrying about preserving the 'plot' - they have their plans, but these can be derailed by player action.
The main thing I think it needs is more active/less scripted NPCs; your idea of Nualia fleeing Thistletop is a good one. Eg I just ran session 2 and had Bruthazmus kidnap a local girl, Lena Tesarani (a younger sister of the Pixie's Kitten madam) during the Sandpoint raid; the PCs along with Ameiko & Shalelu ambushed him and the goblins with him on the Lost Coast road, killed him and rescued the girl. I also had a lot of extra goblins during the raid running around doing stuff.
I plan to use other NPCs more actively too; when I played Burnt Offerings as a player I felt that the NPCs were too static (sitting in dungeon room X waiting to be killed) and that this hurt the game, so I'm making them as dynamic as possible and not worrying about preserving the 'plot' - they have their plans, but these can be derailed by player action.
I love the Bruthazmus idea! I read the Bugbear entry in (I think) Classic Monsters Revisited and wanted to make him a little more of a "golarion" Bugbear than his original entry that was made during 3.5. With the whole insighting fear thing of Bugbears, this fits amazingly. I'm really going to try something similar, maybe even Shalelu because they're enemies and my party is five so little to no tag along NPC's required. Btw thanks for responding, the advice is really sound, I also hate static NPC's and really want Sandpoint to come to life, especially the the dangerousness of the area.
Bugbears are the things in the dark. They are the
monsters in your child’s closet, tormenting him but
avoiding detection when you wrench open the door.
They hide beneath your window in the night, listening
to you sleep, soaking up your nightmares. Fear of the
night is universal among humankind, and bugbears
are the truth to this fear.
-"Classic Monsters Revisited"
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I'm really going to try something similar, maybe even Shalelu because they're enemies and my party is five so little to no tag along NPC's required.
I think I'd be careful about having Shalelu being kidnapped, unless it emerges naturally from play, as Ameiko Kajitsu has a scripted kidnapping and it might seem repetitive. It worked well for me to have a kidnapping during the goblin raid because it was happening 'right there' and could have gone either way - Bruthazmus might have got away, or been caught. If you use the listed hardback stats (I'm using AD&D for this AP) Shalelu is pretty tough and would be unlikely to be overpowered 'on stage' unless a bunch of the NPCs were working together, eg Bruthazmus along with Nualia & co.
I had the idea that the baddies might seek to kidnap living citizens to sacrifice to the Runewell to empower it, or otherwise use in nefarious ceremonies. I think the main thing is going to be to keep the NPCs constantly active and doing stuff beyond their scripted actions, rather than "Tsuto does X, Tsuto does Y, then Tsuto sits in room indefinitely waiting to be killed" - which is how it felt when I first played it. So eg at Thistletop the NPCs should be moving around, could be encountered together, or sleeping, could organise another raid on Sandpoint (with a lot more goblins), etc. Nualia especially needs to be dynamic, I'll be thinking about more things to do with her.
I totally get you, although it is worth noting that since I have 5 PC's semi-optimized, I'm nerfing her and Ameiko because the PC's don't need or want NPC's adventuring with them; I also tend to "tune up" encounters with bad guys so an optimized, synergistic group of PC's are sufficiently challenged. Given the two, Bruthazmus might be able to overpower her alone.
I do however, take your point on the repetition of "the damsel in distress" motif, especially so close together. I am in complete agreement about making the encounters more dynamic, even pragmatic if used sparingly so PC's don't feel like I'm out to get them (although I'm sure they trust me); an intelligent approach to defending their base is a must.
I now am kind of a bit stuck lol, as I already started crafting my take on your idea. I had was already started and now I'm a bit hesitant; I wanted to mold a bit of the fear inducing theme as Bruthazmus led them through traps and ambushes (premade but baited as he escaped)with a breadcrumb trail of Shalelu's equipment and even her gear. I still want to play up the evil ranger thing but maybe you're right that it might be too close to Ameiko's kidnapping to feel appropriate.
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Really work on fleshing out Sandpoint and the connection the characters have with the people of the town.
Paizo could hardly have jammed more into the AE hardcover but the coverage of Sandpoint remains really bare-bones. However, making the town feel alive and getting the players invested in it is critical.
If you haven't already, read far ahead. If you don't, you can get blindsided by events later that character actions might need you to know about early on.
My 5 player party of moderately experienced RPG players (but Pathfinder newbies) absolutely steamrolled the encounters as written in Burnt Offerings (AE that is), so amping up the encounters (carefully!) might be worth it.
Keep in mind Bruthazmus and Shalelu are long-time rivals. They should be fairly close to one another in power level, or it makes little sense that one hasn't outright killed the other by now.
Totally agree. I didn't mean to say I would totally nerf her, just enough to need help.
There's threads elsewhere where people have had their PCs rescue
Shalelu, not because she was kidnapped, but because Bruthazmus managed to injure her and was keeping her pinned down with arrow fire.That sounds like something I would really enjoy reading about, I'll try to find it.
Maybe your PCs can encounter her trying to defend a merchant or some other travelers from Bruthazmus and a raiding party of goblins. After a game of cat-and-mouse among the wagons with their bows, Bruthazmus manages to grievously wound Shalelu. (Have plenty of goblin bodies with arrows sticking out of them around to make the party realize she put up a good fight.) As Bruthazmus moves in for the up-close kill with his flail (because he wants the satisfaction of smelling her fear as he kills her, maybe even taking her ears before she expires) the PCs arrive and he decides he doesn't like the odds, grabs the nearest merchant/traveler to him and dives into the woods. Now the PCs have a choice, they can either immediately pursue the bugbear and hope Shalelu doesn't bleed out (maybe even have some other wounded NPCs about to make it not a complete 1 for 1 trade) or care for the wounded and then hope they can track the bugbear and find his hostage (encountering all kinds of traps and ambushes on the way) before he kills them.
I love difficult decision scenarios. Some realy great ideas Thanks for the advice Kalshane, much appreciated.
Thanks Belegdel, I read the original (and ran the first two chapters) and so far I've read up to Sins of the Saviors in the AE, but will read it in its entirety by the time we next play.
Yeah with sandpoint I just try to be as well versed as possible, I must've read that town appendix like ten times by now lol. I also had each PC start with several contacts, either people to meet or already established friends. I also try to point out pertinent info when needed (via checks mostly).I am with you on amping up the encounters, My party would breeze through the AP as written. I also slowed progression to the medium track and added extra traps and changed up the encounters, I also beefed up security in thistletop and catacombs and will do it as we go. That's actually my favorite thing is to try to add to the adventure, but in a minimalist way (hopefully). Really just to try to highlight encounters, like S'mon said, to make them more dynamic like a kung fu movie. I really like to look at the cast of villains and try to visualize how to make it cool, so each encounter is good, not just a meat-grinder.
Oh I also wanted to add about Sandpoint the fact that one PC grew up there so I try to have him know a lot of the cast, he went to school with X or his old friend is Y, stuff like that. Also their contacts are minor people I liked their entry of, but minor players; I listed them earlier.
One thing is that one of them have a faction, and I need to figure out where to place possible TPA bonuses that make sense. I made some stuff for in town but I plan on putting in bonus potential in the adventure; so far I have a few: like a virisian caravan was attacked in the raid and goblins abducted one or two, stopping a group of goblins from waylaying the roads, helping the mayor of magnimar to get caravan trade contacts for the faction. Trying for more.
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Oh I also wanted to add about Sandpoint the fact that one PC grew up there so I try to have him know a lot of the cast, he went to school with X or his old friend is Y, stuff like that. Also their contacts are minor people I liked their entry of, but minor players; I listed them earlier.
One thing is that one of them have a faction, and I need to figure out where to place possible TPA bonuses that make sense. I made some stuff for in town but I plan on putting in bonus potential in the adventure; so far I have a few: like a virisian caravan was attacked in the raid and goblins abducted one or two, stopping a group of goblins from waylaying the roads, helping the mayor of magnimar to get caravan trade contacts for the faction. Trying for more.
It never hurts to take a look at the Community Created Stuff thread and borrow liberally. I put some text lists together for my own reference, and Yossarian polished them into something that could almost be it's own Sandpoint supplement.