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Hi guys! Been reading the forums for almost a year now (yeah, stalking :P ) and always found a lot of help around here for my pcs, so when a couple months ago decided to start directing RotR, sounded just right to ask for your help once more =)
I've run other games and small adventures for Pathfinder, usually with my boyfriend as a player, who helped me a lot with the rules, but this is the first AP I'm directing. I'm familiar as how to play monsters and bad guys, and how to read an AP. For now, I'm corcerned about two main issues:
1- I've played so far 2 APs, the lousiest run of Carrion Crown ever (that ended in a TPK and our DM didn't want to keep directing) and Kingmaker, still running. The thing is, usually we don't know much about the setting. For example, my Kingmaker druid Elanna, heavily involved with Erastil, didn't know much about him until I discovered Gods and magic a few months ago. So, I'd like to run things differently with RotR. I already handed my players the two Player's guides, Varisia: birthplace of legends, and Gods and magic. One of them (sorcerer gnome) is reading Gnomes of Golarion and another one (halfling bard downflower dervish) is reading Faiths of purity. Can you think of anything else that could help with the setting? I also recommended the bard Faiths and philosophies. I think knowing the setting could really help them, and also is more fun. =)(And I love goodies!!!)
2- The difficulty of the AP. So far we have a gnome sorcerer of fire and a halfling bard downflower dervish. Is a cleric a must? Obviously a tank is out of discussion, but the fourth char worries me. They know APs are made for the typical party, and I wouldn't have troubles adapting the difficulty in case they chose any other class, but I'm afraid they may get stuck without a divine caster. (Oh, btw, my intention is to get to end of the AP).
Regarding skills, they already covered Knowledge Religion, Geography, Dungeoneering, History and Arcana. Do they *really* need anything else?
And the last one: they know about giants and dungeons, anything else I should tell them (keeping spoilers to a minimum)?
So, thank you very much in advanced, and I'm hoping you will ignore my pityful English >.<
Cheers!
Nyn
Some sort of healer is helpful. But you could also get away with healing wands if someone has a good Use Magic Device skill.
If I were to make a suggestion, I'd provide the players with double maximum hit points for first level and then have them roll normally. It will improve their survivability at lower levels, but shouldn't unduly affect them afterward (don't have those extra HPs boosted by later increases in constitution).
Also, read the tactics of the enemies thoroughly... and I'd have a map and miniatures so you can keep track of who is where. Several TPKs have happened because villains were treated more intelligently than what the AP recommends.
Finally, don't be afraid to fudge die rolls, both for the PCs and for the enemy. You want an interesting game. So if the PCs are quickly killing a Big Bad? Provide him or her with extra HPs on the fly so the fight lasts slightly longer. That ogre just criticaled with an ogre's hook and brought the PC to -20 HPs? Lie and ignore the critical in that case. I know some of my colleagues disagree with me on this, but I figure a good fight where the PCs survive but believe they could die makes for a more enjoyable game. :)
Thanks!
We usually use a grid and miniatures, and the players decide where to locate themselves in the map, and so far in previous games have chosen tactics wisely.
Ocasionally I fudge die rolls, specially criticals that are going to kill a pc that has been doing everything rigth. I mean, doesn't sound fair to have an excellent tactic and just die due to bad luck.
I guess I'm just afraid that later on, when we get to the latests books, they realize they are stucked and should have done something different previously. I have read the AP, but I'm aware that probably I'm missing a lot right now.
Thanks again, and anything you can think of will be welcomed (does even that word exist?).
I'll be probably be bothering you soon again, when I have the rest of the party sorted.
Thanks!
I've been thinking about that. I believe it could help in those situations when the main goal of the players is to get more XP, and everything they do is regarding that, leaving the role-playing aside (you know, killing NPCs, killing cows, etc.). But in the other hand, I don't want to end up with 'lazy' players, thinking 'meh, what's the point in doing whatever, if I'm going to level up anyways'.
So far, I don't believe this is the case with these players , but was thinking to use the level track system in other adventures, with different players, and was a bit insecure.
What do you think?
The only problem I really see with leveling up at specific points is that I tend to use XPs as rewards for innovative play, player journals and backgrounds, and the like. That and there was the traditional "weaseling for hit points" though that was more in the older campaigns, not the current one (while my sole player from the old campaigns has commented on "weaseling for XPs" I half-think he's not done so because of bad memories seeing that group fell apart with his divorce. And to be honest I've had the feeling like he's not really into the games anymore even if he claims otherwise). While XPs for innovative play is handy... there are undoubtedly other methods of rewarding players.
Player backgrounds can be rewarded before the game even begins by offering players extra gold pieces for their characters if they have a sufficiently interesting back story that may explain certain pieces of equipment. For instance, a player wants to have a firearm and crafts a fascinating story about how it came into his family and he stole it from the mantle before he left... (or for that matter a mastercrafted family sword).
I would use the Hero Point system from APG. It is a good way to prevent TKPs especially in such a hard AP.
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I would second Eridan for using the Hero Points system if you feel that your party might not have the "umph" of a standard core party (Fighter/Cleric/Rogue/Mage).
I highly recommend reading and rereading the AP. I forget stuff in mine all the time, and then kick myself for it later.
For additional background info, other than VBoL, get ahold of the Inner Sea Word Guide. There is a lot of great info there, as well as extra feats which may help. As well as a good amount of info on the Thassilonian empire.
As far as knowledges go, you can never have enough, so try and cover them all. Planes does come up, so it could be important (Book 3 Down Comes the Rain).
In your spare time, read other campaign posts. This can alert you to issues within the AP that snuck through the editing process and ideas that seem to help an area along.
Thank you so much, guys! You have no idea how useful are to me knowing things as the lenght of the AP, or the difficulty of it. Those are things that are hard for me to realise being new to GMing APs.
I'm definitely going to use Hero Points now, and already have been asked for 5 extra gps, so I may use it as rewards.
And thanks useplanb, I'll recommend my players to consider having Planes. And I'll do my homework >.<
Thank you a lot again guys, this forum is by far my main resource for PF
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For now, I'm corcerned about two main issues:
1- The thing is, usually we don't know much about the setting. \
I already handed my players the two Player's guides, Varisia: birthplace of legends, and Gods and magic.
There's a Player's Companion called the "Inner Sea Primer" that is basically the World Guide shrunk down to 32 pages with 1/2 a page on each nation and other assorted info. That and the Player's Guides should get everyone in-the-know for Golarion. And it's only $10.
One trick I'm going to try when I run RotRL (starting in three days! Yikes!) is a prologue. Before each session, to quiet everyone down and get them focused on the game I'm going to stand up and read a couple paragraph blurb on some part of the world.(I have the first few already written here.) The idea being I can start each session pulling them away from side conversations while also expanding their knowledge of Golarion, and possibly foreshadowing bits of the AP later on.
(I can't take full credit for much of the text, paraphrasing much from the AP and Golariopedia.)
F2- The difficulty of the AP.They know APs are made for the typical party, and I wouldn't have troubles adapting the difficulty in case they chose any other class, but I'm afraid they may get stuck without a divine caster.
RotRL starts pretty easy and the first session or two should be simple. This is nice as it lets the group gel and figure out how the characters work as a group. You can also use that time to look for gaps and weak areas (although they should as well). So you can work with your players make the group more effective. If there's a skill gap that's their responsibility to slip a few extra ranks in when levelling up. And if there's an absence of healing or tanking you can just award more CLW wands or let them hire some muscle (be it a hireling or a pet).
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A note on hero points. I've used them a few times and found they tend to get hoarded until the player has three, one to use and two to save for when dying.
If you want to use them as a way to keep players alive, I might reduce the effect to spending a single Hero Point to auto-stabilize OR if reduced below negative Con, stay alive for a single round. That way players are encouraged to use more Hero Points but hoarding is less desirable.
I'd also get some kind of prop for the Hero Points. Hit a craft store or dollar store and get something fun that you can hand out, such as large beads, gold coins, decorative glass tokens, or the like. It's easier to remember Hero Points when you have the physical manipulable.
I would emphatically agree with using the level track and not tracking XP. It makes the game more organic, and you can level the PCs up at convenient points, rather than at weird intervals. It also means that you don't sweat it if people skip an encounter or anything.
If you are worried about losing the 'additional XP' awards for specific things (figuring out stuff, etc.), you might replace those with Hero Point awards or other benefits from the Ultimate Campaign system (rescuing someone gets you them as a contact, etc).
I love the Hero Point system overall, but I do feel that the three point maximum fundamentally leads people to save two for avoiding death, and only spending one. That's not too big of a drawback to me, though, as you can give them out pretty liberally for awesomeness, and then, PCs save two and spend the other one fairly freely, since it's not too difficult to get, and it will get wasted if they earn another (since they can't have four).
Spend as much time as you can building relationships with PCs and NPCs in Sandpoint. It makes the whole AP much better, and it gives it a sense of depth and immersion. It's also much easier to motivate the players when they are invested in friends (or rivals) in the town.
I will throw my 2 cents in.
My group looked at the level track instead of XP. The level track was voted out. Shame really. However If theres one thing I fudge it's XP points going out to keep them in check. We use a google doc that everyone updates. So at a glance I know where everyone is in level progression. Some players might get upset about this but, whatever it's way more effective than worrying about over powered players
I also agree on using hero points and like Jester have done the same. My group was seriously meta gaming the hero point system. The group would know if they're at the end tough boss fight or not generally and would save hero points for use in those fights. If every player gets an extra attack for three rounds at the end fight that fight seems a tad out of whack. When I mentioned this to my players it was the players themselves that suggested making every hero point action cost just one point (even avoiding death) and limiting accrued hero points to just one at any time
As previous posters have said (and is in effect in my PCs) healing can be bought. In this case we got two people with UMD and a pally with healing spells in his spell list so he can even use wands. The rest of the party always has potions. On classes though there is some debate about needing a wizard. I don't think it's necessary although there is tons of wizard loot in the AP. Although after a PC death the player made a generalist MU and I have to say that has been handy for tons of things for the party. I think Ideally a party should have a tank, a face man, a skills knowledge person and an arcane caster (these could be blended in various ways.
I also second that it is key to get the PC's invested in Sandpoint. This needs to happen. After an almost TPK (Lady X of course) I was worried that there was not enough of a Sandpoint hook left in the party. We worked that out but, it was a worry.
Tahnk you very much for all the advice!!
I'm definitely using the Hero Points system, and checking out the other awards from the Ultimate Campaign book. I homebrewing it, so keeping alive will only cost 1 point, but also they can't spend more than 1 point per encounter. I'm hoping this will lead the players to use the points to keep the PCs alive, instead of using them to defeat quickly the bosses, and so the fudging will be decreased to a minimum. What do you guys think?
My players don't feel comfortable with the level track, so I'm having a hard time deciding on this. Not worrying about the XP and only about the story sounds *really* nice, but apparently is too much of a change for them.
About Sandopoint, I'm using a random encounter with NPCs chart that read about on the forums somewhere, and a lot more of resources from here. Oh, and Jester, I'm stealing your prologue idea >.<
Thank you so much again guys, this is really helpful!!!
Nyn
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I've just started running RotRL for the first time, and one of the thing that I find crucial is having all the information for Sandpoint at my fingertips. As much as love the design work that went into the Anniversary edition, it's not the best laid-out for quick reference. I went through the Sandpoint info, and put together the following cheat-sheets:
Sandpoint NPCs - This is an alphabetical list of NPCs (by first name), with summaries of the details presented in the Anniversary edition. All the stats were pulled from the Community templates for HeroLab. 16 pages.
Sandpoint Resources - A shorter (2 page) summary of the resources available to PCs in Sandpoint: Local experts listed by their area of expertise, Mentors listed by class, and Goods & Services.
Sandpoint Info - Another short (3 page) document with lists of some of the more pertinent info for Sandpoint: Who makes up the Sandpoint Mercantile League and other significant families in town, a list of the Chopper's notable victims*, a list of the local Goblin tribes (and their heroes and territories), and a list of the gods with shrines in the Cathedral.
Feel free to use these lists: I probably got even more out of making them up than you will reading them, because I had to read over the Sandpoint material multiple times to get everything down. It gave me a much better understanding of the ties between the characters, and what role they play in the AP.
* I included Das Korvut's wife and child from the excellent Chopper's Isle adventure in the list of Chopper's victims.
Thank you so much for sharing, SoylentG!! Indeed, I also found myself going back and forth through the book searching for background info, so started doing some cheat-sheets of my own. I will definitely use yours to double check in case I've had missed something.
I played the old ROTRL and have just one bit of advice.
You do need a Tank/Brute, someone who can wade into melee and survive while dealing out the damage.
This helps the rest of the party to do their thing, especially if they are not combat monsters or blasters.
From memory a combat style Ranger would really fit in ROTRL.
DBH
I can't access the document :-(
And thank you, DBH!!
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On the level track vs counting XP, one subtlety here - there's not effectively a difference. On the one hand you can count points and level up when they would naturally, and on the other you can level up when they would have anyway - had they resolved all the encounters, etc.
But in both cases, if they go the distance they will be retirement age (level 18+) by the end.
So it's really the journey that matters.
Not meaning to back track, but what I did for my PC's for HP was give max HP for 1st-2nd levels and then 75% of the die code from then on out plus their con. It makes for hardier PC's and I do not have to "pull" punches when an NPC Crits or gets a lot of good rolls for saves. BTW, if the die is an odd one i.e. d10 they get 7 at odd levels and 8 at even levels. It works pretty good for us.