Soul's page

Let them become the new lords of the town. And then their precious town becomes attacked by other would-be conquerors / destroyers. So they have to protect it because it is theirs.

Later on, Magnimar officials could offer them full pardon, official recognition of their status and even greater rewards to deal with the future problems in the AP.

I will re-check the books to see how it can be played this way.

I think this is actually the most elegant solution thusfar, with a runner-up being have them become agents of the runelord of wrath. Both of these seem like good ways to proceed through the campaign with relatively little twist from the original story, unless of course the players simply don't want to play the ap, at which point scrapping it would be for the good of all parties. I thank you for the suggestion, and will send it on to my friend.

So here's my question for the board. Have you ever managed to make the proverbial "all bard group" we always talk about? And if so, how did you manage to herd those cats and pull it off?

I actually have a somewhat okay example for this one. My primary online playgroup managed to strongarm one of our members into running Serpents Skull as long as we agreed to do our best to make it fun for everyone including the GM. pretty easy stipulation in my opinion.

Amusingly, we are almost "all bard" and also "herded cats"

Our Party:
MEOWTALLICA

Bartholomeow: Lead guitar, dancer, stage diver, all around frontman, a Catfolk Swashbuckler

Purrtricia: Lead Vocals, manager, mastermind, merch creator and saleswoman, a Catfolk mastermind bard

Nyan: Warm up act, drummer, stand up comedian, frenchman.
Human (wearing a cat-ear headband and taped on tail) Juggler urban bardbarian

Shifu Chuuy: groupie, raodie, drunkard, and leader of the meowtailica fan club
Human Drunken Fist/Sensei monk

Sadira: pyrotechnics, laser lights, scorching rays, special effects
Catfolk phoenix/... something? crossblooded sorceror

It's been pretty fun and also pretty terrible, roaming around a deserted cannibal-infested malaria-ridden island in search of literally anyone who can contact our agent and get us off this rock.

I bleeping knew it. I distinctly remember years ago the first time I tabled with a level 2 Magus and they declared "I'm defensively casting SG through my rapier to do my melee damage and the spell damage through spell strike" when I, a lowly 1st level Inquisitor on his first character, said "I looked at magus when I was deciding what to play and I *think* you get to attack, cast your spell, and attack again..." and everyone looked at me like I was dumb. I was right. I've been watching players do it wrong all along.

I personally am running into an issue where... well... I've built about a dozen different characters and they all feel like pre-gens. The system lacks personality.

Can't for the life of me figure out a reason for this change other than to directly nerf a popular weapon. The weapon should be S versatile P like all of the other arming sword variants. It really feels like it was simply an oversight. It's exactly the same as a longsword, except it can be held in two hands like a greatsword.

Edit: If it is a balancing issue, it would fit in more with the arming sword variant if it was 1d8 s/p one handed, 1d10 s/p two handed. This makes the arming sword tree look like this:
Shortsword 9 silver 1d6 p/s finesse agile.
Longsword 10 silver 1d8 s/p
Bastard Sword 35 silver 1d8 s/p one handed, 1d10 s/p two handed
Greatsword 20 silver 1d12 s/p

each damage dice above 1d6 is covered in this tree and each sword feels unique and like it has a certain tactical advantage over the others in certain situations.

i uh... i refuse to feel any shame in creating this. it was only a matter of time and you brought it on yourselves.

I also like my rogue-barian that sneak attacks with a greataxe, or my Slayer that studies an opponent for a few rounds then sneak attacks with a bastard sword.

what makes it a sneak attack? well the barbarian generally yells SURPRISE as loud as he can as he swings. (if you want to see this build i can post it too. its urban barbarian and scout rogue, so he sneak attacks on a charge, and any time he moves. he also stacks dodge, mobility, and a pretty decent starting AC to sponge AoO's and get sneak attack from movement as well as from flanking, even after a charge. its a pretty fun build to play.

put it into con, play the half orc you rolled, and go Cavalier (standard Bearer) or a Tactician fighter or something similar. have your high stat be str like normal but make sure you get high stats in wisdom and int and then bump your con any chance you get. roleplay as a near-middle aged man who has seen many wars, and it currently recovering from a mortal wound. explain why you're hesitant to work on the frontlines and instead dedicate yourself to the tactics of combat, help direct the party at any chance you get and make sure you all really work together. would be a fun character to play, and you could do it to show all these min/maxers that a gimped character can be more useful than a great one in the right pair of hands.

Bane Baldric: if the wearer is an inquisitor he is treated as five levels higher for the purposes of bane. as read sounds like you get greater bane at level 7 for 10k gold. (iirc)

CLUSTERED SHOTS: many higher-level monsters have DR that will be harder for you to bypass, since Adamantine arrows are super overpriced and you don't generally want magical arrows.

AGILE COMPOSITE BOW: will increase your bow's composite rating to match that of your strength. a comp bow you dont have to drop when you get hit with str down poisons. yay!

my inquisitor found more use out of clustered shots and other ranged feats than he did out of the Snap Shot tree, by my DM is a dick and generally likes to have monsters aggro to me instead of the paladin with 40 ac and 150 hp. for whatever reason... (looks at 98 hp at level 14...) but my build probably isnt flawlessly optimized.

next time ill just read the rest of the thread and sail off, knowing my fellow ranged inquisitors have the job firmly in hand. i would point him toward the wonderful self buff spells and greater invisibility (because +30 to hit against flat footed ac is totally necessary and not excessive in any way at all.)

Bane Baldric: if the wearer is an inquisitor he is treated as five levels higher for the purposes of bane. as read sounds like you get greater bane at level 7 for 10k gold. (iirc)

CLUSTERED SHOTS: many higher-level monsters have DR that will be harder for you to bypass, since Adamantine arrows are super overpriced and you don't generally want magical arrows.

AGILE COMPOSITE BOW: will increase your bow's composite rating to match that of your strength. a comp bow you dont have to drop when you get hit with str down poisons. yay!

my inquisitor found more use out of clustered shots and other ranged feats than he did out of the Snap Shot tree, by my DM is a dick and generally likes to have monsters aggro to me instead of the paladin with 40 ac and 150 hp. for whatever reason... (looks at 98 hp at level 14...) but my build probably isnt flawlessly optimized.

another idea, build some kind of inquisitor who hunts down spellcasters all while hiding the fact that they are a caster themselves. take conversion inquisition and use wisdom for diplomacy/bluff and convince people that your divine powers arent magic, or that they mustve been seeing things and you've always just been a man with a bow. take inquisitor just far enough to get bane then multiclass to fighter or ranger to maximize your martial ability. i wonder how well this campaign will work with pathfinder's deity system, where gods choose champions to bestow powers upon at a whim.

despite my better judgement (after reading the entire post... all 6 pages) im going to go ahead and say two things. first, i feel like the players have suffered a great injustice in this encounter. they were set up by someone that they are intrinsically inclined to trust and tricked into committing an atrocity. there should have been AMPLE warning for all of the players that this should not occur, and there should have been a multitude of chances for the actions to be stopped. when a pc commits an evil act, or states that he is about to commit one, it is the GM's duty to warn them of the consequences of their actions. if a CN cleric that channels negative says that he wants to channel to harm the bad guy they're fighting in a bar, he should be notified that his channeling could possibly harm and or kill innocents, and it will possibly result in an alignment shift towards evil, and it is his (as a player) choice to continue with the action, or find another way. after the first arrow left the paladins bow and hit the goblin, your job as GM was to tell him that he had just committed an evil act (there are spells and items that warn you ahead of time, in case you really want to be a nazi about it and not warn him early, and ill give you the BOTD that he didnt have any of these items, so i said after) in slaying a good aligned creature, and that any further actions would lead to an alignment shift. YOU, as GM, SET THE PARTY UP FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. that is horrible. the GM is the guy you look for to lead you as a party. he makes up the story, and tells you what you're doing. he gives you quests. yes, there is room for deception, but a GM should never deceive his players with malicious intent (by the way, setting up a player for his paladin to fall with the intent of this happening no matter what is wrong. i dont care if he's a thorn in your side, if you're tired of his damage, find another way, dont just break his character. if i were that player i would not only leave your party, i would never play under you again. the things ive read and seen from your are aweful, and i personally think that your other gm should take control, and you should just build a character. maybe a CN rogue who hates paladins and does everything he can to undermine him, you'd probably have more fun)

second. this is why my inquisitor always talks before he shoots, and this is why he refuses to kill anything that can speak and defend itself until he's been provoked. and my party laughed at me when i took huge penalties to only knock out the goblins instead of killing them. eat it xD

i stopped in because i like theorycraft, and making fun/crazy builds, but i will mention that no bard should ever EVER be... defiled... with a shooty-shooty-bang-bang... EVER. bards are pure, wholesome, unadulturated fun. shooty-shooty-bang-bangs just break scenarios any way they can, and ruin it for everyone else.

I've never played with a gunslinger, but it seems pretty clear that they're overpowered. My evidence supporting this is to look at the forums, so much interest in the gunslinger and discussions about how powerful they are. Second, the one powergamer in my group said to me recently, "I'd like to try a gunslinger."

We play core only, but I told him I'd read up on it before making a decision. After I read up on it and told him no, he laughed because he knew he was basically trying to slip it in thinking I wouldn't investigate it fully.

Regardless if Pathfinder has changed the terminology or not, the "Core" rule book has always referred to player's book, dungeon master's book, and monster's manual. Player's book and dungeon master's book is combined in Pathfinder. This is the ONLY "Core" book. Everything else is non-core, a splatbook if you prefer, etc.

If you have to refer to 3.5 in order to "balance" out a splatbook class, you've already lost the argument.

we were referring to the Core Line of books, including the Core Rulebook, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Equipment, Ultimate Magic, APG, Bestiaries 1-3, and other books. i would call things like the player companion splatbooks.

as far as the original topic of the discussion goes, remember that pc's are RICH AS F***, for instance, how much does a 5 star banquet cost to have made for you at an inn/wherever available? 10gp. we're talking 300$ translates to about 10gp. a beer at an inn (3$ american, conservatively) is 3 copper... 30$/gp= 30*5450=16350$ for a raise dead, can you afford that out of pocket? i cant.

Rules as written vs rules as intended has long been a debate in pathfinder. i find alot of GM's follow rules and intended unless specifically stated in an errata by the devs. otherwise there would be alot of isses

ex. player: "i channel"

Gm: "are you male?"

player: "yes...?"

GM: "'Regardless of alignment, any cleric can release a wave of energy by channeling the power of her faith through her holy (or unholy) symbol. This energy can be used to cause or heal damage, depending on the type of energy channeled and the creatures targeted.' you cant channel, you're male"

and again

ex

Metamagic Master: "When you use the chosen spell with a metamagic feat, it uses up a spell slot one level lower than it normally would." 3rd level spell or higher

merciful spell: "Your damaging spells subdue rather than kill.

Benefit: You can alter spells that inflict damage to inflict nonlethal damage instead. Spells that inflict damage of a particular type (such as fire) inflict nonlethal damage of that same type.

Level Increase: None"

does this allow you to adjust a fireball to second level and prepare it half a dozen times? no, it shouldnt, but there hasn't been a Dev announcement to clarify (like magical lineage) so it is technically still legal.

Sense Motive: 1d20 + 24 ⇒ (8) + 24 = 32 *Zee's eyes flash to a severe blue and back to his normal hazelnut* now now Kelladorf, it isn't nice to pick on the new members of our great society.

one does not simply bluff in front of a 13th level inquisitor

the tanks are built to tank things, thats what they find fun, the damage dealers are built to damage, thats what they find fun. when i gm i have more fun having a group of fellows laugh at how silly something is than i do having a group of fellos be mercilessly slaughtered because i found every way possible to get around their strengths. its not a sure fire thing, and sometimes i throw in a monster or two that would mercilessly slaughter them if they aren't lucky just to keep the thrill of death in it. but honestly i have more fun watching them laugh as the halfling supertank is picked up and tossed into a river. (not kidding, this halfling had something like 43 AC at level 13 or 14 and he sat out a combat because my gorilla got tired of the shiny thing making taunting noises at it) i dont know about you guys, but if i build a character specifically to do something and my gm goes through pains to ensure that i cannot do that thing i dont have much fun at all.

i paid for hero lab and love it, however a second option that you might consider is PCGEN. it is another 3rd party program and, while not anywhere near as good, does almost everything Herolab does for free. however a word of warning you should probably resist the temptation to use things from books you don't own officially from Paizo, because it is possible to get data for things you dont have the rights to use through these programs.