Despite the title, this isn't just a question about all-bard parties. It's for all those "let's all be X class" groups. The players that want teamwork feats to actually see play. The writerly dude that wants interlocking backstories. In my experience, they all seem to come with the same problem.
When it's finally time to roll up PCs for a new campaign, folks tend to split and go their own way. That leaves the "let's do a thematic group" player with a tough choice. You can either try to insist on the theme, quashing someone else's I-have-a-build-I-wanna-try-out creativity, or you can just shrug and hope that next time the thematic thing will happen.
So here's my question for the board. Have you ever managed to make the proverbial "all bard group" we always talk about? And if so, how did you manage to herd those cats and pull it off?
Bard, in particular, is a very adaptive class with many wonderful archetypes.
You could have an archer Bard.
... Arrowsong Minstrel does a pretty decent job as an archer in a single package. Every party needs an archer.
A summoning Bard VMC Sorcerer.
... Verdant/Groveborn gives Lush Summoning to the Flame Dancer-Flamesinger Fire Music summons. Nice.
A healing Bard VMC Monk.
... Arcane Healer-Geisha opens up Ki Pool, tea of transference, Ki Channel, Scribe Scroll shenanigans.
A metamagic Bard VMC Sorcerer.
... Magician with the Arcane Bloodline is good, clean metamagic abuse fun. Great for Sacred Geometry.
A sneaky Bard VMC Rogue.
... Archeologist or Sandman can work well here, but Sandman might do better VMC Sorcerer for the Aberrant Long Limbs ability and their Stealspell Performance. Both/Either can pull off being sneaky, though. Sandman VMC Rogue is a great way into Arcane Trickster, if that matters.
And, my personal favorite, the Arcane Duelist with the longspear, Gloves of Arcane Striking, Flagbearer, Banner of Ancient Kings business going on.
Have you ever managed to make the proverbial "all bard group" we always talk about? And if so, how did you manage to herd those cats and pull it off?
In the initial game/campaign de/re/pre brief inform the players that this will be an all [insert class here] game/campaign, and depending on the results from this run an alternate class's will be considered.
Be prepared for much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
They will sort out the rest.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Despite the title, this isn't just a question about all-bard parties. It's for all those "let's all be X class" groups.
The players need to be on-board from the outset. If someone really doesn't want to play a wizard in your Hogwart's-in-Golarion chronicle, or a pirate in your Shackles campaign, or a Hellknight, or whatever, it's an exercise in aggravation, in my experience, since even if they make an appropriate character, their lack of enjoyment isn't going to raise the mood.
On the same note, the GM has to be in on the plan. If everyone is playing a bard, and the GM whips out an adventure involving fighting undead pirates underwater, then, yikes. Read the room. Make an adventure for a 'thieves guild newbies' party of all-rogues something tailored for a party of all rogues, where if there are encounters a team of 'specialists' can't tank, there's a few thiefier options, like leading them into a trap, or crossing a chasm to evade the swarm (preferably with a whip, while holding an idol), or unsticking a jammed old portcullis to block pursuers.
But if everyone's not invested in the 'all-X' game, either adjust if possible (fine, everyone else is an apprentice at the wizarding academy, you can be the 'Hagrid' Bob...) or go with something that they *do* want to play.
In D&D 5e, I think an all bard party just wins the game. Hm.
In seriousness, due to the rise array of archetypes and feats an all bard party is quite viable in PF1e.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
just use Gestalt
just use Gestalt
Now we are talking my language!
Arcane Duelist with Urban Bloodrager (Arcane Bloodline)... or Warrior Poet Samurai.
Arcane Healer-Geisha-Sound Striker with Iroran Paladin... or Scaled Fist UnMonk.
Chronicler of Worlds-Sound Striker with Stygian Slayer... Assassinate people with Weird Words.
A thematic group with interlocking stories is not at all the same as a mechanically gimmicky group.
In the first one, the characters are all connected, somehow. A special ops-type group from a thieves guild could be some rogues, a fighter (swashbuckle-y or hired muscle), a sorcerer, even some sort of priest of a god of shadows/luck/whatever. Robin Hood's Merry Men could be rangers, druids, rogues, maybe even a barbarian or a monk.
The second one is just where everyone goes "what if we were all wizards?", and then you try it.
Before Session 0, I decide what kind of story I'm telling want what sort of game I'll run to tell it. I always ask players for input, but at the end of the day, it's my call. I'm not going to put a hundred hours of labor into something I'm not absolutely for. Maybe I'll shelve one idea to play another if my players all seem really pumped for one over another, but really it's my game, my work and my time, so if what I'm offering you doesn't interest you, there are other tables than these.
I mean, an all vigilante party is very viable. I've heard tell of a Hell's Rebels run with only vigilantes, which sounds amazing.
just use GestaltNow we are talking my language!
Arcane Duelist with Urban Bloodrager (Arcane Bloodline)... or Warrior Poet Samurai.
Arcane Healer-Geisha-Sound Striker with Iroran Paladin... or Scaled Fist UnMonk.
Chronicler of Worlds-Sound Striker with Stygian Slayer... Assassinate people with Weird Words.
our last few games have all had parties of the same theme. Either all Rogue + whatever, All Barbarians + Whatever, etc, or the current All Divine + whatever
|
just use GestaltNow we are talking my language!
Arcane Duelist with Urban Bloodrager (Arcane Bloodline)... or Warrior Poet Samurai.
Arcane Healer-Geisha-Sound Striker with Iroran Paladin... or Scaled Fist UnMonk.
Chronicler of Worlds-Sound Striker with Stygian Slayer... Assassinate people with Weird Words.
Dawnflower Dervish|Paladin FTW!
|
|
I do have an idea for an adventure for an all gnome party. They have to save their petrified friends from the gardens of the tall folk. I haven't tried it though. Does an all gnome party count?
I'd like to see a party with a barbarian, a bloodrager and a skald. Another example would be a cavalier, an inquisitor and a hunter for the teamwork feats.
Gestalt is the easy answer. But basically everyone needs to be in agreement for making the theme work. I've adhoc'd an all elemental themed Mutants and Masterminds game. My group is doing a futuristic Deep Rock Galactic style as an all Dwarf group with a gestalt of 1 of 3 classes from the Thunderscape 3pp(A cyborg, an engineer or a guy with a tricked out vehicle) after we finish(hopefully we succeed) Book 6 of Carrion Crown.
Getting everyone down with a theme is a lot easier than telling everyone to play a single class though.
just use Gestalt
Heh. That's fair. Especially as a GM, handing out "free" class levels in bard so that you can all fit the travelling musicians theme seems like a winning proposition.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Not every traveling musician is a bard. You could be a sorcerer with a few ranks in Perform. A rogue with high Acrobatics or Sleight of Hand could be a juggler or stage magician. I have a character with Cha8, 1 rank in Perform and a masterwork instrument. A +5 is enough to sit by the fire and pluck out a few chords.
The benefit of having a couple ranks in Perform and/or a decent Cha will be quickly outpaced by a more focused build in a few levels, which is unfortunate. You could offer a few free ranks for "non-essential" skills so the fighter with a harmonica isn't handicapping himself later on, or you could just figure that a couple +1's here or there won't make much of a difference and just take the (minor) hit.
Background skills might be of use here. Continuing the all-bard theme, everyone taking Perform as a background skill would let the party seem to be all musicians yet continue in their classes. If you wanted a group of academic nerds, the right Knowledge skills would work. You can preserve the theme yet still let the group play different classes. The professor of geography? Ranger. Nobility? Cavalier. Local history? Bard. And so on.
|
As Gm, I've tried encouraging players to make backstories that include one another. As a player, I've tried coordinating with other players. It almost never works. In the end, everyone writes up their own character on their own time.
In one game, I managed to convince another player to take a teamwork feat with me, and when everyone else saw how good it worked they all got on board so now the entire party has that one teamwork feat. It is the only time, in my 10+ years of playing pathfinder, that I have ever seen a teamwork feat used.
There was another game where I coordinated with another player and we wrote up cousins who were rival noblemen. Again, the only time I ever really managed to work with another player to combine backstories.
I find that most pathfinder players have a long list of character ideas/concepts they want to play. Ideas that have been put together over years and are just waiting to be put to use. So cooperating to make a combined idea is hard to convince others to do since they already have their own ideas in mind for what they want to play, long before the call to a new game happened.
So my experience is, the few times I was successful I didn't try to get the whole party to cooperate. I just proposed the idea to the group and then found the one other person that was interested and worked together with them.
In one game, I managed to convince another player to take a teamwork feat with me, and when everyone else saw how good it worked they all got on board so now the entire party has that one teamwork feat. It is the only time, in my 10+ years of playing pathfinder, that I have ever seen a teamwork feat used.
If you want to convince someone of something, they have to see enough benefit in it. In case they don't, it's up to you to present such benefit.
As this is a very general rule, it should also apply to an "all-bard party". Some players would be openminded because it's something unusual (hence exciting), others would have to be convinced with the challenge of the idea / interesting archetypes / an interesting setting that works only with such a party / etc..
I have this one idea for a campaign but I highly highly doubt it'll ever come to fruition. Basically everyone is a different race and class but they are all half-siblings through either their mother or father.
So there'd be a human, elf, drow, half-elf, half-drow, orc, and half-orc. All the human-blooded characters have the same dad while each half-human has a sibling through their mother that's a full-blooded member of the other race.
I think it could be fun but unless I play the entire group myself, it's probably never going to happen.
I play with a group of 2 players (there's 3 of us total and we always have at least 2 of us running separate games so we end up with parties of 2) but that goes a long way to making themes and stuff come together. I've seen those 2 make groups That were twins or best friends or both vigilantes. And I've made some cool themes when 1 of the other 2 is running and I get to play with the other. I think those sorts of things get harder as people are added.
To answer the original question. Theme parties tend to have a little overlap but I've never really seen it be an issue even when I played with a larger group
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just before the Plague hit, I was about to join a campaign. One of the characters joked about naming his character Rocky Racoon. I told him that if he did, I would bring in a different character named Danny Kite, and we should talk to the other player and get her to name her character Lil' Nancy McGill. The GM Groaned. Dungeon Master Jim got all giggly, but he wasn't following through. Then the Plague fell on us.
That party would have been destined for some PvP! :)
Just before the Plague hit, I was about to join a campaign.
Just before the Plague hit, my group was about to start Seven Days to the Grave. That campaign somehow didn't make the jump to Roll20. Can't imagine why. :/
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So here's my question for the board. Have you ever managed to make the proverbial "all bard group" we always talk about? And if so, how did you manage to herd those cats and pull it off?
I actually have a somewhat okay example for this one. My primary online playgroup managed to strongarm one of our members into running Serpents Skull as long as we agreed to do our best to make it fun for everyone including the GM. pretty easy stipulation in my opinion.
Amusingly, we are almost "all bard" and also "herded cats"
Our Party:
MEOWTALLICA
Bartholomeow: Lead guitar, dancer, stage diver, all around frontman, a Catfolk Swashbuckler
Purrtricia: Lead Vocals, manager, mastermind, merch creator and saleswoman, a Catfolk mastermind bard
Nyan: Warm up act, drummer, stand up comedian, frenchman.
Human (wearing a cat-ear headband and taped on tail) Juggler urban bardbarian
Shifu Chuuy: groupie, raodie, drunkard, and leader of the meowtailica fan club
Human Drunken Fist/Sensei monk
Sadira: pyrotechnics, laser lights, scorching rays, special effects
Catfolk phoenix/... something? crossblooded sorceror
It's been pretty fun and also pretty terrible, roaming around a deserted cannibal-infested malaria-ridden island in search of literally anyone who can contact our agent and get us off this rock.
|
|
Bartholomeow Danger Eightlives here! What mah man Soul said above is the gospel truth.
Can confirm that this whole adventurin' bullsheesh ain't what I signed up for! First we got stranded on some b$!&*~+~ island, and now we're being hounded by every gods damned fool in Eleder about some lost city. All I want to do is shake my @$$ and make some cash in some place where the air isn't made of hot soup and mosquito.
Bonus art of Meowtallica's biggest fan (My age of ashes PC):
Meowtallica's biggest fan .