Water Elemental

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Organized Play Member. 1,098 posts (1,403 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. 2 wishlists. 16 Organized Play characters.


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Grand Lodge

So, I kinda drifted away from PF during the pandemic...and in coming back, I find out they added an Oozemorph archetype in "The Slithering" module...super excited, I picked it up and immediately flipped to the read about it...

Am I missing something, or do they not get pretty much anything related to the p1 Oozemorph? No shapeshifting, no compression, no turning your limbs into weapons? Just a couple of unusual anatomy related feats?

Is this archetype worth looking any farther into, or is it just another write off like the 1e version?

Grand Lodge

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I love playing unusual races, but it really just comes down to the group, and to a lesser extent the setting mixed with what exact races you are talking about.

Some people only want to play monster races so they can pick something more powerful that the normal PCs. Some people only pick them to be disruptive, etc.

It is also a bad idea to play a race that is incredibly hated, and normally attacked on sight in the setting unless the campaign is specifically tailored to accommodate such characters.

Grand Lodge

Kinda leaning towards swapping out that Improved Shield Bash for Shield Focus or Armor Focus for a little more AC. I thought about Combat Reflexes, and I doubt it would come in very handy with my low Dex and the fact that half the time I would not be able to get an AoO with my Kinetic Blade.

I also think I am going to swap out the Armor Expert trait for Unflappable Arrogance for a little more resistance to intimidation.

Anyone got any hot tips for must have magic items for a Kineticist tank? Nothing really jumped out at me beyond the usual suspects, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, belt of Con, cloak of resistance, boots of speed, +Str Ioun Stone, etc. Are there any hand, wrist, head, headband, eye, or body slot items that really jump out?

Are any of the armor or shield enchants must haves? I was thinking probably just basic +1-3 Full Plate, maybe with Comfort on it (though dealing with sleeping in armor and such rarely comes up in PFS play). For the shield, I was considering the Bashing enchantment, though I don't know how often I would ever actually hit anything with my shield.

Grand Lodge

In those terms in Pathfinder...you could cure almost anything with a box of band-aids and a tube of neosporin, saving yourself huge amounts of money and effort. So why would you ever even consider going to an ICU?

Grand Lodge

I disagree, but I won't get into a political debate in here about the idiocy of the US Healthcare system.

Grand Lodge

It both makes sense, and is incredibly stupid at the same time. It makes sense that higher level magic gets exponentially more difficult and expensive to handle. But it also completely reinforces one of the most complained about things in PF1, the fact that the best healing in the game comes from a simple level 1 wand. CLW spam healing exists because...why should anyone ever bother to craft a wand of cure critical, when they can make 28 wands ot cure light for the same price, and get infinitely more healing out of it?

Grand Lodge

My favorite is the Teisatsu/Stalker Vigilante build that exploits Twisting Fear to get unlimited AoE damage against anything that isn't immune to intimidation.

Run into a room, use Dazzling Display, everyone within 30' takes 1d4 damage (+1d4 every odd level) and is shaken (if you take Signature Skill: Intimidate, you can push that fear effect all the way through the fear levels, frightened, panicked, even Cowering at high enough levels)

Intimidate can be insanely broken, as it is super easy to demoralize enemies, and it is super easy to get your skill high enough that you auto succeed against anything that isn't just fully immune.

Grand Lodge

Good point, I'll see if any other feats jump out at me. Combat Reflexes is a maybe, its a bit less useful since you don't get AoOs with Kinetic Blade. Might be worth it at higher levels, once I start using whip instead though.

Grand Lodge

Why is a wand of Cure Moderate Wound 6x the price of a Wand of Cure Light Wounds? Why is a Wand of Cure Serious Wounds 15x the price? Or of course a Wand of Cure Critical Wounds is 28x the price?

You certainly don't get that much extra healing from them.

Grand Lodge

Had an idea rolling around in my head for a super tanky Kinetic Knight build for PFS play, and I think I've come up with a decent build for it. Let me know if you see any errors, or places I could improve it.

Also, any suggestions on must have magic items or must have enchants for the armor and shield? Within the bounds of PFS rules and wealth limits, so probably capping at about 100k gold by the time I hit retirement at level 12.

At level 12 I should be running around with enough burn to maximize my defenses and elemental overflow, giving DR 12/adamantine, 12 point of negative energy resistance, 65% Fortification, +6 will saves vs emotion, +4 to hit + 8 damage, +4 Con, +2 Str, and +2 Dex. AC should be decent with full plate and a large shield. Will saves will be a bit low, but Resolve and being an outsider race should protect me reasonably well from most of the bad Will save tricks.

Click here for build:

Class: Kineticist (Kinetic Knight) Void/Earth
Race: Ifrit (Lava Soul)
Alignment: CN

Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 17
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

Alternate Racial Traits: Efreeti Magic, Fire in the Blood, Wildfire Heart

Traits: Shield Trained, Armor Expert

Favored Class Bonus: +1 HP

Stat boosts to Con

1. Primary Element: Void
Feat: Toughness
Infusion: Dampening

2. Wild Talent: Kinetic Awe

3. Feat: Weapon Focus: Kinetic Blast

4. Wild Talent: Eyes of the Void

5. Feat: Improved Shield Bash
Infusion: Pushing

6. Wild Talent: Gravity Control

7. Feat: Mobile Gathering
Expanded Element: Earth

8. Wild Talent: Expanded Defense: Flesh of Stone

9. Feat: Gather Might
Infusion: Darkness

10. Wild Talent: Gravity Control, Greater

11. Feat: Extra Wild Talent: Kinetic Restoration
Infusion: Unnerving

12. Wild Talent: Kinetic Form

Grand Lodge

Reminds me of the all Bard traveling rock star superhero party concept me and some friends have threatened to do for years...would be brilliant in PF1 with all the assorted Bard archetype options...maybe even toss Skald in the mix for even more variety.

Or a gang of shapeshifting criminals...can you imagine the levels of absurdity a whole party of Kitsune with the Realistic Likeness feat could get into?

Back on the Kineticist topic though...I know a couple people locally who play a trio of kineticists who are built as a team, using things like Interweave Composite Blast.

Grand Lodge

I've always been drawn to the Rogue and it's sibling classes like Ninja, Slayer, etc.

I enjoy more tactical play, so I like the challenge of needing to pay attention to positioning, working against opponents weaknesses, etc.

Grand Lodge

Ryan Freire wrote:

I really want to play a theme party thats all

Race: Caligni, Wayang, Fetchling
Class: Void kineticist, shadow summoner, ankyou shadow, one of the 2 light controlling rogue talents.

That basically exploits see in darkness. Everyone rolling with deeper darkness spell likes and the see in darkness ability. Kind of like the party who uses fog and goz masks.

Everyone serving Count Ranalc.

I've always loved the idea of playing a character built around mechanics like darkness, but never actually done it since it can completely screw with your allies just as much as your enemies.

Playing in a group where everyone can either take advantage of such a mechanic, or at least isn't hindered by it would be amazing.

Grand Lodge

I've been tossing around an idea for an Earth/Void Kinetic Knight build for a tank. If you grab Expanded Defense, you will have: Good AC from heavy armor + shield, Good DR from Flesh of Stone, Good Fortification from Emptiness, and Resolve from the Kinetic Knight archetype to shore up your weak Will saves.

Build it on one of the Outsider races so you can't be affected by things like Charm/Hold Person, and you are insanely tough and hard to control, and still do enough damage to make sure enemies consider you too dangerous of a threat to ignore.

Earth/Void doesn't get a good Composite blast, but the Knight archetype gives up supercharge in favor of iterative attacks, so it is no big loss.

Earth and void have some good utility abilities as well, enough that you will have to make some tough choices as to which ones you want and when. Burrowing, Earth Glide/Meld, Tremorsense, Flight, See in Darkness, Gravity Control...so many fun options.

Grand Lodge

I think the druid spell list is plenty good enough as is, and a well played evil druid can create havoc on a continental scale already. Not to mention, they can be absolute terrors in combat if you know how to use them properly.

Grand Lodge

Only one I have played so far has been Earth/Earth. I have mapped out a couple others I would like to try that mix elements though.

I really like the concept of Void, I just wish there had been more official support for it.

Grand Lodge

Without such a limitation, they are absolutely the cheapest healing item in the game, since you can just top off your health for free between fights...even with such a limitation, they are still one of the best healing items in the game.

They are so good that they limited them to only be able to be activated once per day in PFS...so count yourself lucky if your GM doesn't use that limitation too.

Grand Lodge

I've been playing ttrpgs for 40 years...so just about all my characters anymore are unconventional.

Some highlights in recent years have been my Half-orc/Half-Oread Earth Kineticist (Half-Orc with the earth kineticist elemental attunement that gives him Oread traits that turned his flesh crystalline) and his imaginary friend Rocky (elemental whispers hedgehog familiar that looks like a spiky cluster of gems when manifested)

My Nagaji Bloodrager/Dragon Disciple who has always sworn he was born of dragons, not those vile snakes. His goal has always been to become a Paladin, but he never received that divine spark.

My Shelyn woshipping Half-Orc Alchemist, who was born a Half-Elf, but drank an experimental elixir during his apprenticeship that corrupted his elven blood and turned it orcish. He has devoted himself to curing this condition, but every time he thinks he has figured out how, he just gains new and more horrifying mutations like tentacles, or wings. My head canon for why he can never 'cure' himself is Shelyn is trying to teach him that true beauty comes from within.

I also have a strength based Gnome Monk, started him just to prove to someone that you can make a viable character even using the least optimal race for something...small size plus -2 Str and he can still stomp a lot of people into the ground. Imagine mashing Master Sifu from Kunf Fu Panda with Master Roshi from Dragonball and Pai Mei from Kill Bill...stuffed into a pink haired gnome wearing bright pink and purple monk robes.

Or my Half-Gnome pretend necromancer...Human with Racial Heritage Gnome, Undead Bloodline Sorcerer, focuses on illusion magic, which she always themes around some kind of necromantic or spooky looking effects (minor images of ghosts and skeletons, shadow evocations of ghostly magic missiles, major images of walls of bones, etc) I don't get to play this one much, it is a PFS character, and it is amazing how few GMs actually understand how illusion magic works.

Grand Lodge

Oops, forgot about the fact that those were outsider based, definitely works with the planar heritage version though

Grand Lodge

Racial heritage: Catfolk so you can use Claw Blades to turn your claws into magic weapons instead of needing an AoMF for natural attack builds.

Racial heritage: Sylph, so you can take Airy Step and Wings of Air...innate fly speed ftw

Could also do Aasimar to get Angelic Blood/Angel Wings, though it is available 1 level later, and winged flight is a slight downgrade.

So many ridiculous shenanigans can be pulled off with RH...I both love and hate it at the same time.

Grand Lodge

There are a couple stat layouts I could potentially go with. Ranging from most to least min-maxed.

I am leaning towards the last one, with the third one close behind. PFS has a pretty good mix of social and combat encounters, so I generally try not to dump my mental stats, and the combat stuff tends to be geared more towards the low optimization end of the spectrum, so it is more friendly towards newer players and RP.

Str 17 - 18 - 17 - 17 - 17
Dex 15 - 15 - 15 - 15 - 15
Con 16 - 14 - 14 - 14 - 13
Int 10 - 10 - 10 - 10 - 10
Wis 10 - 10 - 13 - 12 - 13
Cha 7 - 8 - 8 - 9 - 10

Grand Lodge

The 13 in Int was more because I didn't want to put that left over point into an 11 Wis or Cha, and I had initially thought about being able to take Combat Expertise, which I ended up not doing.

I'll be able to upgrade 3 of those 4 odd numbers to evens through the standard PFS levels, the 4th one is just a left over point that could have just as easily made a 5th odd number stat. I could easily flip that 13 from Int over to Wis for the +1 Will save and +1 Perception...Slayers get plenty of skill points per level, so I'll probably do that before I finalize the character.

The 15 Dex is also so I can start off with TWF at level 1, being able to also grab Double Slice and Two-Weapon Defense is just icing on the cake.

TWD gives a +1 shield bonus whenever you wield 2 weapons or a double weapon, and an extra +1 when fighting defensively...so it is basically Dodge, with an extra option for when you want to go full defense.

Grand Lodge

I could technically drop my dex all the way down to 10, and still get most of the TWF feats I need to pull off the build, but that leaves my AC a bit lower on a character that is already limited to only medium armor. 15 seemed like the best starting point, it isn't horribly point consuming for a point buy based character, it gets me a little better AC, some initiative, reflex saves, and also lets me get a couple nice bonuses like starting with TWF at level 1, and then being able to grab two weapon defense earlier than level 10+

Without the 15 dex I would only be able to grab TWF at level 2, ITWF at 6, then I would have to choose between TW rend, TW defense, and Double Slice for that level 10 ranger style feat. If I start with a 15, I can get all of them.

Since this is not a finesse based build, a Str belt works a lot better, and the +4 Str/Dex belt is too expensive. It all comes down to overall value...if I skipped Dex completely, I could start with a 20 Str instead of a 17...which would give me +1 to hit and damage, but it would cost me -2 AC, -2 reflex, -2 TWF feats, -2 initiative. So I felt it was worth starting it at a 15 instead of just ignoring it.

Grand Lodge

I like the idea of the Dirty Tricks line, but I would have to do a bit more shuffling around to get Combat Expertise or Dirty Fighting first to qualify for Improved Dirty Trick. Or maybe take the Underhanded Trick talent then move down the rest of the line. I'll play around in HeroLab and see what I can come up with.

Critical Focus and Bleeding Critical aren't available until level 9 and 11, and it wouldn't stack with Bleeding Attack, so that probably won't work for this build.

Ryan Freire wrote:
If you're starting at 15 dex already why are you worried about ignoring dex requirements with slayer/ranger? Might as well be a weaponmaster fighter and get access to Advanced Weapon training and a buttload of feats.

15 Dex is a whole lot easier than 19 Dex, especially when your weapon cannot be used with Weapon Finesse and Dex to Damage, if there were an easier way to be able to go full finesse with this build, I would love to go that way. I only took the Dex to 15 so I would be able to qualify for the baseline TWF, and Two Weapon Defense without eating up all my ranger style feats.

Grand Lodge

I'm pretty stuck on the Two-Bladed Sword. Mechanically, a couple of the other options are interesting, I am just not a fan of them visually.

I think I've decided to go ahead and drop the 2 throwing feats, even in PFS I would still need to go retrieve my sword to be able to use it the rest of the fight/scenario. Which could turn problematic.

Any suggestion for 2 feats to fill those spots that could improve my functionality with the two-bladed sword, or just general character boosts?

Grand Lodge

Sharding is definitely an interesting option, but at a +2 cost, that puts it outside of the budget for PFS play, at least until the extreme tail end of the normal play span, which ends at level 12 for standard PFS play. I wasn't super worried about provoking, throwing would be a last resort for when I cannot do anything in melee. Two- Handed Thrower didn't seem super useful to me either, as I will only have 1 weapon to throw, so taking a full round -vs- a standard action. I may just abandon the idea of throwing the sword and carry a bow or something for those emergency situations where I need to hit something at range.

I had thought about doing an aether kineticist for a while, but I wanted to focus more on just a martial focused badass that uses an exotic weapon than a true Jedi/Sith build. Plus, TWF with an exotic weapon is already pretty feat intensive, so it doesn't leave a lot of room for anything that doesn't give bonus feats and full BAB. If I ever decide to build a more "force" oriented character, a full on aether kineticist would be perfect though. :)

I had also considered dipping a couple levels into fighter to get more bonus feats, that or maybe barbarian to represent that Sith focus on anger. The level 10+ Slayer talents are awful nice though.

I had also briefly considered Magus, but it didn't really seem to be compatible with TWF and a double weapon.

Grand Lodge

As Gorbacz mentioned, the Slayer is a great class as well. It has a lot of Rogue flavor, but is a bit more combat focused. You give up a few skill points, and a bit of sneak attack damage to get higher base attack, and access to some unique Slayer and Ranger options.

Grand Lodge

For flanking, you need to be directly opposite from an ally under most circumstances (not just both of you threatening like in 5e). This will give you a +2 bonus to hit and enable you to sneak attack.

You can also enable your sneak attack by any means that denies your target their dex bonus, such as invisibility and stealth, blinding them, attacking them while they are grappled, etc.

Combat maneuvers are a bit of a trap for rogues, your maneuver bonus will not be able to keep up with the maneuver defense of most enemies as you level up. If you take the Agile Maneuvers trait, you can mitigate this some, but as a reduced base attack bonus class, it still wont be your strong suit.

The unchained rogue is mechanically stronger than the core version of the rogue, it gives you weapon finesse for free, and lets you choose a weapon to add your dexterity bonus to your damage (in your case, probably your claws), gives your sneak attack some bonus debuffs, and a few other fun things. It is still compatible with most of the archetypes.

Scout is a strong archetype, if you are working your way towards Claw Pounce it is very strong, as you can pounce to get your sneak attack instead of needing to worry about flanking or other means of enabling your sneak damage.

Catfolk have a nice racial weapon called Claw Blades, which lets you use your claws with nice things like special materials, and enchant them like normal weapons. Which is overall better than having to buy an Amulet of Mighty Fists to make your claws magical.

Grand Lodge

I rather like the Wayang. The shadow theme fits well with a ton of build options.

Gloom Chymist is particularly fun for them, and they have the perfect stat bonuses for it.

Some other fun options are just about any type of rogue, Kineticist focused on the Void element, Gloomblade Fighter, Illusionist Wizard, etc.

Grand Lodge

I've been tossing around the idea of making a double weapon focused character to play in PFS, and I keep circling back to the Two-Bladed Sword. It seems like the "best" option out of the fairly lackluster double weapon options, both mechanically and aesthetically. I've never seen anyone locally play a double weapon based character in the 4 years I've been active in the local PFS scene, so it might be an interesting change of pace.

Since this is for PFS play, finesse is not a viable option, since all the means of getting finesse with a Two-Bladed Sword are either not PFS legal, or come online super later for PFS play.

So...I am looking at probably Slayer (or maybe Ranger) so I can get by with a minimal investment in Dex, and focusing on Str.

Most likely either Human or Half-Elf so I can nab the Exotic Weapon Proficiency at level 1, dropping the +2 stat into Str.

I was thinking of a stat array like:

Str: 17 (15+2 racial)
Dex: 15
Con: 13
Int: 13
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

Moving the odd numbers up to evens as I level.

For feats. I was leaning towards
1 - Two-Weapon Fighting
3 - Power Attack
5 - Two-Weapon Defense
7 - Distance Thrower
9 - Improved Critical: Two-Bladed Sword
11 - Accomplished Sneak Attacker

For Ranger Talents: (Favored Class bonus going into extra slayer talents to get 2 at level 6 and 2 at level 12)
2 - Ranger Combat Style: Double Slice
4 - Weapon Training: Two-Bladed Sword
6 - RCS: Improved TWF, Combat Trick: Throw Anything
9 - Bleeding Attack
10 - RCS: Two Weapon Rend
12 - Hunter's Surprise, Evasion

Gear would be pretty basic, probably a mithral agile breastplate for armor, belt of strength, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, cloak of resistance, boost of speed...only specialty item I could think of would maybe be Duelist's Vambraces to negate the TWF penalty on 1 offhand attack per round.

If HeroLab did the math right (using a +2 enchant on both ends of the sword), I would top out at 5 attacks per round (or 7 hasted), doing 1d8+19 main hand and 1d8+14 offhand with power attack, or 1d8+11 on both without. +19 base for the attacks, +3 with studied target, -4 if I power attack, +1 if hasted, +2 if I get into flanking (+25 max to hit self buffed with boots of speed against a studied target with haste and no power attack, +21 with PA, and dropping from there if missing haste, flank, etc.)

My thoughts on why I took throw anything and distance thrower was that I could lob the sword at something in an emergency...those 2 could easily be swapped out for something else.

Anyone see any glaring errors, have any suggestions to improve the build, comments, criticisms, etc?

Thanks :)

Grand Lodge

Ravenous Tumbleweed is tiny, and therefore needs to enter the same square as anything it intends to attack, which does in fact normally provoke.

Core Rulebook pg. 194 wrote:
Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent’s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent.

Grand Lodge

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Any flurry of blows when paired with the Crusader's Flurry feat will allow you to flurry with your patron deities favored weapon. I haven't scoured the official pantheons of Golarion, but surely there is a deity with Greatsword as their favored weapon.

Core Monk, and Unchained Monk work...there may even be some archetypes or prestige classes that give flurry of blows. Brawler's get a different version called Brawler's Flurry, which RAW would not work. In a home game I could see most GM's allowing it though, since they are basically the same ability.

You don't even need Warpriest...you can do it with Cleric, or anything that gives channel energy. Warpriest just happens to work particularly well since you get channel energy, weapon focus, and proficiency in your deities favored weapon as part of the class.

Grand Lodge

FaerieGodfather wrote:
Unless the lich was prepared for combat in advance, having Spell Resistance would be a massive impediment to its combat abilities as it would either have to sacrifice a combat round to lower its SR or run the risk of wasting a round on its self-buffs failing.

Any caster powerful enough to turn itself into a Lich will be prepared for combat. They likely have powerful divination magics set up to warn them well in advance of any threat, and contingency plans in place for the off chance they get surprised or just flat out beaten.

Core Rulebook wrote:

A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).

A creature’s spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities.

RAW, anything that has SR can buff itself with zero problem...it can also voluntarily drop its SR to allow minions or items buffs to work on it.

Grand Lodge

If you want real shenanigans, go 4 levels of Warpriest of Yamatsumi, 1 level Unchained Monk, then go the rest in Titan Mauler Barbarian.

Wield a large, adamantine tetsubo with the impact enchantment on it, carry potions of enlarge person, and crusaders flurry with a 3d8 weapon that has a x4 crit multiplier.

You could alternately choose one of the deities with a scythe for their favored weapon, and do the same thing but with a 3d6 scythe instead of 3d8 tetsubo.

Grand Lodge

People keep repeating the no extra attacks thing...wielding 2 weapons would not be granting any extra attacks...all it is doing is allowing you to wield 2 larger weapons at the cost of larger penalties.

You can already essentially TWF with greatswords via Crusader's Flurry. 4+ levels of Warpriest + Unchained Monk...bam.

Which mechanically would be even better, since you wouldn't get the huge negatives, and you wouldn't have to pay for 2 enchanted greatswords.

Similar level of investment to get 2 alchemist discoveries worth of extra arms for an honestly inferior effect...plus I still fail to see how it is against the rules, since you are not getting any more attacks than you would if you were TWFing any other weapons.

You would just be at -6 main hand -10 off hand without the TWF feat, and -4 / -4 with the TWF feat since your off hand isn't light.

Grand Lodge

Either way, it is still positive energy. Positive energy never hurts living targets, unless they specifically have something that causes them to.

Grand Lodge

Paizo always uses he/she pronouns throughout the class descriptions (usually based on the gender of their in-universe lore based Iconic character from that class), but outside of maybe 1-2 Prestige classes, no. All of the core, base, and hybrid classes are open to all, as are most of the prestige classes.

Grand Lodge

Not unless they are specifically damaged by positive energy. You are just directing a weaker version of your kinetic blast into your fists, which has the same limitations as the basic blast.

Grand Lodge

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My only real problem with PF2e is going back and playing 'core' rules again, after being able to enjoy the marvelous diversity of PF1e.

5 years from now...if PF2/Paizo is still a thing...maybe they will have released enough content for me to find it engaging.

None of the current playable options really spark my interest, most of them are the same ones I have been playing for the last 40 years...the Alchemist is new at least, just not my style. None of the classes scheduled for release at GenCon really appeal to me either, so at a minimum, I'm looking at 2+ years from its original release before Paizo releases a class I actually care about...and that is if I get lucky and they put a class I like in next years book...if not, then it will be 3 (or maybe even more) before I actually care about PF2e.

Grand Lodge

If you have 4 arms and the two weapon fighting feat, you should be able to wield and attack with 2, 2 handed weapons. They would both be at a -4 to hit, so it might look and sound kind of cool, but your accuracy will be terrible.

Grand Lodge

Melee and ranged are just how weapons do their damage. Melee is hand to hand combat, ranged is...ranged.

Natural weapons are almost always melee weapons, there are very few instances of ranged natural weapons.

The one thing natural weapons generally do not count as is manufactured weapons, which there are plenty of things that specify they only work with manufactured weapons. (Spells like Disguise Weapon, Energize Weapon, etc)

Any melee weapon enchantment works just fine for Amulet of Mighty fists, unless it specifically calls out that it needs to be a manufactured weapon.

Grand Lodge

I had a fun Gnome Monk build a while back that focused more on debuffing than straight damage.

Scaled Fist Unchained Monk, focused on Dex and Cha.

Used a combination of the Enforcer feat, with Shatter Defenses, Medusa's Wrath, and Improved Dirty Tricks.

Enforcer would allow me to demoralize things to give them Shaken, which would make them flat footed from Shatter Defenses, which would trigger 2 extra attacks from Medusa's Wrath. Dirty Tricks could impart a few other debuffs.

I think I had something else that would make them sickened or maybe something else, been a while since I thought about that build.

Grand Lodge

Just remember, Warpriest's sacred weapon scales down a die size for being small, so it is slightly less attractive.

Grand Lodge

Fates Favored is almost a mandatory trait for Warpriest, give you an extra +1 with your default buff Divine Favor.

Other than that, looks pretty solid...first few levels are gonna suck, but once you get whip mastery at level 3 it should pick up nicely.

Grand Lodge

Basically anything that will also allow you to add your Dex to your damage, either via a class feature (Unchained Rogue's Weapon Training), or by a feat (Fencing Grace, Slashing Grace, etc).

Anything that does melee that isn't based on your weapon damage directly (Magus's Spellstrike)

Finally, options that deal scaling damage that isn't affected by size (Kineticist w/ Kinetic Blade or Kinetic Fist, Anything that grants Sneak Attack, etc.)

If you go Kineticist, Earth and Water are both great for more tanky builds, air and fire are great for more offense focused builds.

My personal favorite is to start with earth, you'll be nice and tough, and still do decent damage. Then when you hit level 7, choose fire or air(lightning) as your secondary element. That way you will have a good solid attack -vs- regular AC, a slightly less powerful energy blast that targets touch AC (but you need to watch out for spell resistance), your defense is one of the best defense talents available to the kineticist, air and fire both have flight options for movement (or you can just sit on the ground and fire one of your blasts at those pesky ranged attackers)

You could also go for a Kinetic Knight archetype build if you want pure melee, though they tend to be more Strength oriented since they use heavy armor and a shield.

Grand Lodge

I'm sorry if some people view my comments as unnecessarily harsh, I love the PF1 system, and the world of Golarion. When it feels like Paizo is too busy shoveling dirt into the shallow grave they are pushing PF1 into to bother doing anything else with it, I may take it a bit more personally than I should.

They were always a little slow getting AR updates out, but now that they have their new baby to take care of, it seems like they are completely neglecting their older child.

Compound that with the horrible decline in quality of PF1 products as they focused more and more attention on SF and PF2 (Seriously, how did some of the stuff in Ultimate Wilderness actually make it to print?). Plus the absolute refusal to fix problems they know full well exist (some of which have existed for literally years).

I love PF1...and I really want to love PF2...but why should I support a company that refuses to support their own products? Why should I believe that 5 years from now, PF2 won't be in the exact same situation PF1 has been in for years, with known rules conflicts that Paizo refuses to weigh in on in any official manner? I could hop over to the rules forum for PF1 right now and find a dozen threads with over 1000 replies, dating back to 2011, that Paizo has been actively ignoring.

Finally, it is even more frustrating when 95% of my game play is limited to the organized play guidelines because that is what all of my local game community uses.

At least recently I have been seeing an big uptick within that group who is questioning why we are bothering to continue using society rules for local games, so I may be able to shake those limitations before too much longer.

Grand Lodge

Technically, a Vigilante only needs the Shapechanger subtype for Morphic Weaponry. So if they choose a race like Kitsune or Skinwalker (or other races with Shapechanger subtype) they can take it without the need for Malleable Flesh.

Morphic Weaponry does cap your natural attacks, but you can still use them as secondary attacks with a weapon, so there are some possible uses for an Avenger based Vigilante that wants to tack on some secondary natural attacks with a weapon build.

As for Malleable Flesh...I wouldn't say at will compression and disguise self (and being able to squeeze through cracks with all your equipment at higher levels) is 'nothing'

The vigilante talents that steal the 2 core abilities from the Oozemorph makes a generally better Oozemorph than the actual Oozemorph...but it is still not a great choice.

Grand Lodge

Well, as an Oozemorph, you will likely get 1 combat where you can be in a useful form per day. So for the rest of the day you can...not use any items and not speak. If you go for a strength based build you will have an AC of 10...maybe 12 max...if you go with a dex based build you can push that up to a 14, maybe 15 if you flat max your dex on a high dex base race...16 if you use your level 1 feat on dodge...but then you will hit like a wet noodle.

If you survive til level 2 you get DR 4...which is bypassed by the most common damage type in the game, and you can now hold a useful form for 2 hours...so maybe an extra combat.

Even once you hit level 4 and can adventure in a useful form 8 hours a day, you are still giving up way more than what you get by taking the archetype. You give up all your your aspects, you give up all of your chimeric forms, you replace wildshape with a vastly inferior version of wildshape that does not qualify for any wildshape feats, you trade out shifters claws for an inferior version that scales worse and never bypasses DR, you replace scaling AC for the worst DR in the game, the wild empathy swap is a null...neither one is particularly great, the only thing I would actually say is an improvement is swapping woodland stride for a 10' climb speed.

Conceptually, I love the idea of the archetype...you get to adventure as Odo from Deep Space 9 mixed with the T1000 from Terminator 2...unfortunately, it is probably one of the worst written archetypes in PF1, and Paizo will never step up and put out an official fix for it...so it is less than worthless in PFS, and requires significant homebrew fixes to bring it up to par with even the baseline shifter for home games.


As for the original topic, if Paizo wants to focus so much on organized play, maybe they should get their act together, and not spend a year making excuses for something that they should have done before they actually release a product. I love the idea of PFS, but waiting more than a year to actually be able to use their product does nothing but make me not want to buy it. Why should I spend money on something I can't use? That is just a horrible business plan.

Grand Lodge

Play an Ifrit with the alternate racial trait that swaps your SLA for Enlarge/Reduce Person?

Grand Lodge

Not sure why you think anchoring couldn't be applied...natural weapons are melee weapons, as are unarmed strikes.

It obviously was not meant for such interaction, but RAW it should work just fine.

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