How to know when your GM is pulling punches?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So our group runs a (usually) fairly high difficulty setting, and several times our dice don't pan out the way we hope, we are hit with effects that are extremely debilitating, you name it, chances are, it happens.

But sometimes it feels like the GM is pulling punches so as to keep giving us a fighting chance; it seemed obviously evident in our last battle in the previous campaign, when one of our PCs got knocked into a 20D6 Lightning Vortex (not a spell, a supernatural environment effect created from the boss), hit by a 10D10 Call Lightning, in addition to suffering a 12D10 Mythic Chain Lightning, and the GM handwaived the 20D6 (because it obviously would've killed him).

Now, I'm not opposed to the GMs ruling, and sometimes the GM doesn't pull punches (we've had PC deaths in this campaign before, 3, in-fact), but it seems in key areas where it would most likely cause TPKs, the GM pulls punches one way or another, and it also seems to stem from the factor that I'm not as skilled a player (both character-wise and tactics-wise) as I thought I was, and it makes me question whether I actually built a decent character, I behaved properly in accordance to the situation, or if I simply screwed it all up.

I'm certain there are other players who have had this happen to them before, whether they were beginners, or were getting royally screwed by the dice (7 1's in a row happened once in one of our meetings, thankfully they were all skill checks); do you notice when the GM pulls punches? If so, what are some methods you use to determine whether a GM insta-nerfs something or slightly bends the rules to the PCs favor?


If the GM's tactics suddenly become a lot less tactical. As an example if one PC is almost dead and he just attacks random people and splits up the attacks evenly, you are being given the kid gloves to an extent.

If he is rolling behind the screen and suddenly start to miss attack rolls or rolls low damage you might be getting spared by the GM.

If he makes up a rule to help you out, but you know that rule is not in the book as he is describing it, then he is pulling punches.

Now sometimes a GM just does not want to deal with a TPK, and sometimes we(GM's) go a little overboard with estimating how much the party can actually handle.

As a GM I tend to have most of the bestiary 1 monsters memorized to a pretty good degree so that also helps me know if a GM is not using ability X then he might be pulling punches.

Basically if you feel like the GM is holding back he probably is.


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Then again, the screen can be misleading. I roll behind a screen and sometimes I do actually get a string of misses (which is how it works; randomness clumps). It just depends on when it happens. Sometimes it goes on right at the beginning but the mooks survive, so when they start dishing it the players get a little scared. Vice versa, if it comes at the end it may seem like I'm putting the gauntlet back on and saying sorry for throwing it at them.

The only times I'll really hold back is when I make my own adjustments (usually to an AP) and they turn out to be nastier than I gauge the encounter to be. I have a party of six that goes through the published adventures, so I almost always have to bump things up a little to keep combat from being a cakewalk.

Other than that I've found having hero points and being fairly liberal in their use and acquisition has meant that I can play ruthlessly without as much fear of a TPK. I hate having to make players reroll their little buddies, so I try to give a little padding when I can. Sometimes it doesn't work, like a crit from a big charging horseback-riding baddy, but in general the hero points have been a nice addition so that I really don't have to pull punches.


If you're not ganked at 1st level by Pit Fiends, the DM is pulling punches.


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Seven 1's in a row is crazy. My personal best of the worst is seven nat 1's out of 15d20 while fighting some giant spiders in 2e. On the other hand, I once saw somebody roll all 6’s on 5 or 6 sneak attack dice.

It has been many years since I've seen DMs so ashamed of their dice that they roll behind a screen. Still, there are many ways that DMs pull punches and prevent punishing the PCs for their many failures. Here are a few which come to mind:
#1 - Having powerful monsters split up their attacks evenly between PCs (also leads to the “come into melee with me so there will be more targets” syndrome)
#2 - Offering extra saves to “snap out of” SoL Will effects which don’t usually offer them (in the absence of any previously existing house rule)
#3 - The DM fails to deliver the expected damage for a spell or effect (as in the OP’s case)
#4 - The DM tells somebody “You’re at negative 1” without rolling or at least without announcing a damage total
#5 - Some monsters leave in the middle of the fight for unclear reasons (one monster telling another “run and tell the boss!” is about as good as this gets)
#6 - Ghouls or mummies fail to coup de grace a paralyzed PC, especially if they wouldn’t suffer an AoO to do so
#7 - I’ve seen some DMs try to skip the turn of certain monsters as if they “forgot” them (this is one of the saddest pulled punches)
#8 - NPC ex Machina and its more dispiriting cousin DMPC ex Machina (thanks, Mighty Mouse, but can we just die next time?)
#9 - The enemy decides that he’d rather knock you out and make you his sex toy than kill you, so he starts doing non-lethal damage (I guess the more sensible version is that the enemies decide to capture you for questioning or ransom. That can be a valid plot point, but it is one that frustrates some players and needs to be used with restraint or not at all)
#10 - A shark which could have killed you just bites off a body part and swims away / The monsters mutilate instead of kill a downed PC
#11 - Various ways where monsters who were previously pretty savvy suddenly get very bad at tactics

An honorable mention goes to the DM asking how many hit points you have left before doing something. We’ve got a couple of players who keep their hit point totals completely secret in an attempt to avoid this and increase their PC’s risk of death (yes indeed, some folks like dying). Another potential pulled punch is when the DM has a BBEG not kill the PCs when he or she could. This often happens when the PCs attack a BBEG they’re supposed to fight later in the campaign when he or she appears to make an Evil Speech. I’m trying to avoid this in the future by using some Evil Speech by Proxy ideas like sending a henchman, using a simulacrum (perhaps one which is still powerful enough to give the PCs a serious fight), or sending a familiar, impostor, or illusion.

To avoid the need to pull punches I make most encounter CR = APL and try to use very few encounters of more than CR = APL+1. Coup de grace is house ruled to be just a crit (or in some groups a crit with 1x more damage). I offer new saves each round on a lot of stuff like Dazing Spell and Fear. I've just begun running the Council of Thieves AP for a party of 2 PCs. I let them start at 3rd level since that should theoretically make the APL vs CR work out right, and they absolutely dominated every encounter last night. I figure that my d20 will heat up at some point though. Our groups also use Hero Points, and I think that the players having their own insurance policy really can help the DM avoid making everybody uncomfortable by letting a PC off the hook (especially if other PCs haven't been let off the hook in the past)


Puna'chong wrote:
I hate having to make players reroll their little buddies

Best term for PCs I've seen in a long time.

- Torger

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