Shinzaemon's page

Wow I just got so excited about cavaliers after reading through the mother's fang archetype. It honestly seems perfect for this character concept and I would be sad to see it passed up for other options.

I love me some shaman and I love me some reach casters (probably my favorite combat style to brew). They are both usually feat starved. One level of mother's fang does so much for you. You can get a fauchard and have the feats to build into improved trip to really capture the feeling of a reach weapon master.

I definitely think boon companion is something you're interested in. I'm not a huge fan of having low hd animal companions. Retraining into horse master later seems excellent. As far as I know horse master doesn't require an actual horse mount, just a mount. At this point you'll have a fully powered mount and a spirit animal at -1 level. I'd also look into improved familiar for a pseudodragon down the line, turning you into a one man army.

For the mechanics of your race I really like the idea of proposing some kind of alternate racial trait. I'd call it "Nagaji-Blooded" and have it effect your physiology in a way that makes sense for being related to snake people. I'd be wary of doing something as cleary minmaxed base as losing claws and upping bite damage (obvi the reach caster has no use for claws and would love the biggest bite possible), but it is tempting. Something to do with your litheness, ability to climb and a minor buff to your bite would be dope.

I really dig what's going on with this character concept. Whatever you choose, seems like a blast to rp.

Nyerkh makes an excellent point about the trapfinding ability...and is the reason I'd like to mention the inquisitor as my top choice for this kind of character.

The inquisitor solves a lot of the issues that you're worried about with the rogue chassis. Instead of trying to abuse situational sneak attacks (generally made more situational by a reliance on full attacks), the inquisitor can rely on Bane and Judgments to be a threat in nearly any combat situation. Spellcasting is, well, spellcasting and means the inquisitor can outperform the rogue in every "roguish" pursuit.

It sounds like your dm has some strict ideas about party formation but if you can convince them that the inquisitor can more than keep up in the trapfinding department then I think you will be quite happy. This is my favorite class for that Van Helsing, monster-slaying goodness.

Slayer is another strong option, although I do think the inquisitor is mostly just a better slayer too.

The one thing I like about slayers over any other class is their two-weapon fighting builds. If you are interested in making sneak attack as reliable as possible, a slayer can get both improved two-weapon fighting and circling mongoose at level 6 with the human favored class bonus. This allows you to set up your own sneak attacks, no flanking buddy or stealth needed. If you're interested I could post my build for that. It's a nice way to abuse sneak attack damage while not being completely reliant upon it.

Finally have the opportunity to play in a campaign again and I've been eagerly brewing up ideas for out meet and greet session. I'd like to have a couple characters I'm interested in rolling up depending on what the group ends up needing the most. This is number one on my list.

Urban druid is an archetype I've been intrigued by a lot. Getting A Thousand Faces at level 6 is quite strong, and just oozes roleplaying potential. I want to be a smooth-talking, shapeshifting sneak with secret magical powers. I like the druid spell list and would like to focus on battlefield control with the ability to buff and heal when needed. I also like being able to spontaneously cast domain spells but have for the most part but uninterested in the available domains until very recently. I'm okay with giving up prowess in summoning and an animal companion, this is going to be a caster druid and I've never liked summoning.

So where does the archery come in? Well, it's mostly a back up plan, allowing me to always fall back on ranged full attacks for chip damage. This is just another option that I like having access to diversify how the character approaches combat.

Here's my initial build

Race: Half-Orc
Alternative Racial Traits: Sacred Tattoo, Orc Hornbow Proficiency
Traits: Fate's Favored, ?
Domain: Nobility

1. Urban Druid 1. Precise Shot
2. Urban Druid 2.
3. Urban Druid 3. Point-Blank Shot
4. Urban Druid 4.
5. Urban Druid 5. Rapid Shot
6. Urban Druid 6.
7. Urban Druid 7. Deadly Aim
8. Urban Druid 8.
9. Urban Druid 9. Clustered Shots
10. Urban Druid 10.
11. Urban Druid 11. ?
12. Urban Druid 12.

Not sure what the last feat should be but that's not for a while as we're starting at level 3.

I love me some half-orcs, and the race really ties the build together. I'm using the old sacred tattoo + fate's favored combo to get +2 to saves. Fate's Favored puts in a little extra work, boosting the divine favors I'll be casting from the nobility domain. Half-Orc also gives me access to the awesome 2d6 orc hornbow, a nice little boost to archery damage. The hornbow alongside the boosted divine favors is just enough for me to like my odds as the team's backup archer/ranged damage.

I'm not interested in the power level of leadership and will see what my dm will offer as a solution. I think everything else about the build is unobtrusive power wise, but with access to some sweet abilities and one of my favorite spell lists.

I'd love help with the skills and stat layouts for a third level build of this character, that's where I'll be starting. 20 point buy is what we're doing I think.

Also I'd love to hear what peoples' favorite spells are for this kind of druid caster. I know I'll be using entangle whenever I can and I love aqueous orb. Would love ideas on that front.

Lemartes I think you're point on jabbing dancer not triggering outslug sprint is a very legitimate one. Pathfinder uses a lot of specific yet vaguely understood language to demarcate where things intersect. Not calling it a five foot step in the text and instead saying you can move five feet seems deliberate to me.

This is like the old Furious Finish debate where the authors wrote that if you have an effect that would allow you to ignore fatigue (ie tireless rage) it doesn't work when you furious finish. This however does not specifically call out against immunity to fatigue, which was later clarified to still work in mitigating the fatigue brought on by furious finish.

All of that is to say that I think if the authors wanted to call it a five foot step they would have, and wording it instead as a free five feet of movement you get as a rider effect on an attack has a different intention.

I do love this build so far with outslug style. Probably a different build, but outslug sprint seems like an amazing way to trigger the scout's sneak attack damage since all you need is 10 feet of movement to trigger SA. If outslug does work with jabbing dancer this could get really silly. Maybe an alternate approach to this build would be Unarmed Fighter 1/ UNchained ThugScout 11 With this the rcane charlatan archetype for unchained rogue could be added on as well since it's not clear you want a dex build and charlatan would give you access to enlarge person without items. My question for this approach is: does the unarmed fighter allow you to ignore the prereqs of the entire outslug chain, or just the firs, as in do you need int 13 and combat expertise to get outslug weave and sprint even though you don't need it for outslug style.

As for the build, see if you can get away with spring-loaded wrist sheaths with potions of enlarge person in them. I don't think it's too far-fetched to obtain potion containers that are long, narrow tubes that fit like a wand or dagger. This, along with accelearated drinker is a pretty effective set up to buff yourself in a very meaningful way without compromising BAB or your teammates precious time. With outslug sprint this will allow opening turns where you: swift action-draw enlarge person potion, move action-drink it, take a ten foot step towards the enemies, and then use your standard action to your liking. I'd highly recommend combat reflexes on this build since it seems the priority of this build is to maximize your reach and movement potential.

Also cheers on the cestus build, I hope you stick with it as opposed to unarmed strikes. Sure there are plenty of cool pay offs for unarmed, but I love the gladiator flavor of the cestus and mechanically, I think being able to have a magic weapon as opposed to waiting for an amulet of mighty fists is a real upside. You can carry around a couple for getting around damage reduction too.

It would make sense to me if the con boost gave your familiar hp like rage does and goes away when the mauler isn't medium size.

Not only do I think this build is fun, but rather powerful too. Losing wildshape is big, sure, but I like how many feats this druid gets to sculpt its tactics. Even after dedicating space to a vmc, accomplished sneak attacker and improved familiar you can have as many as 7 feats to work with in 12 levels. Being able to wield magic weapons and such is also a nice offensive boon wildshapers don't use much of. I think this build is a great alternative for melee druids that don't want to wildshape for their effectiveness (whatever the reason). Personally I'm just a little sick of wildshape right now so this approach is a breath of fresh air. Going samsaran to pick up divine favor, heroism, divine power, and righteous might is looking better and better to me...

I vote for an inquisitor archer. It matures a little bit slower than the ranger, fighter or zen archer, but by level 5 you will be tearing through enemies with bane. Inspired courage and haste support, which you should be getting from the bard, makes this strategy that much more deadly. The fact that you have a bard on your team alone makes me want to suggest some kind of archer, as they are just so good at supporting archers.

You'll add another partial healer to the group, meaning any one of three team members can help out in a pinch. I like this approach to team healing much more than one dedicated healer. If you go human with the elf domain you can even have rapid shot at level 1 like the human fighters, and with divine favor you're just as accurate. Scratch what I said about maturing slower.

It may seem redundant to add yet another roguish class to the team but I actually love what that would do for your synergy. Having three very capable stealthy types makes for a very fun game of intrigue.

Oh and Inquisitors are actually very respectable divine casters, which your team lacks. you're not going to blow the socks off people like the sorcerer, but that's fine, that's not really what divine casting is best at anyways.

I couldn't stop thinking about Nature Fang druids with the crocodile domain and rogue-vmc all day.

I'm not entirely sold on the survivability of a mauler caiman, but you did a lot to calm my nerves Lizard King. Going for a mauler makes me want an 18 con, making for an all around beefier duo. I'm still not sold on the survivabilty of a low level mauler caiman, but you probably shouldn't start using one until you start picking up Sneak Attack Dice anyways. At level 1, even if you invested in 18 con,FCB in hp, and mauler's endurance you're looking at a 13 hp druid and 8 hp croc. I'd be scared to death to rumble with that.

And then there's the 10ft land speed. Longstrider seems like the only real solution, it's just annoying you're pretty much forced to have it up for the familiar to go anywhere. Again, this seems a detriment at lower levels where you want to be prepared with as many defensive buffs as possible. Are there any other viable ways to turn the familiar into a flanking buddy at lower levels? I'm thinking improved familiar is a very smart pickup at level 9, but that leaves 8 levels of trying to make the caiman familiar do work.

I'm also kinda stuck on the combat style choice. TWF is the obvious one for optimizing sneak attack, but the more I think about it the more I like the idea of shield style with an open hand for spellcasting. Spellcasting + Combat Reflexes is my favorite way to create melee casters and shield bashing seems like a nice AoO tactic with the free bullrushes you'll pick up from shield master. Natural attacks is also a very real option, especially considering all of the druid's best buffs target natural weapons.

I'm not usually a huge fan of VMC's but I think the rogue VMC fits the nature fang just perfectly. Trapfinding and the right traits tacked onto the druid skill set and spell list makes for an awesome and very effective wilderness rogue type. VMC Rogue + Nature Fang + Crocodile Domain + Accomplished Sneak Attacker gives you 6d6 sneak attack dice at level 11, on par with your average rogue. Add to that 6th level druid spells and an improved familiar and this build seems to have a lot to offer in the way of role versatility and action economy.

Here's an incomplete level 12 build stub. Thanks for the inspiration Tyrant.

Race: Not sure yet, and one of the beauties of the build. Human is obvious, but I also really like samsaran for poaching the best buff spells off of the cleric/inquisitor or paladin list. Tengu makes a lot of sense for getting three natural attacks right away if that's what we're going for,but then maybe so does that one race that gets a gore and hooves since claws and a bite are so easy to pick up via spells. Half-Orc is always a favorite of mine and great at producing melee druids. Lizardfolk makes the same sense as tengu does but also wins on some flavor points. Dwarf seems perfect for the mauler familiar route with the con and wis boosts and the longhammer is a great weapon pickup for the two-handed style chain. I'm definitely floundering when it comes to race, but I don't consider that a bad thing. I love the possibilities.

1. Nature Fang 1. Crocodile Domain, Open Feat
2. Nature Fang 2.
3. Nature Fang 3. VMC Rogue - Trapfinding
4. Nature Fang 4. Open Slayer Talent SA: 1d6
5. Nature Fang 5. Accomplished Sneak Attacker SA: 2d6
6. Nature Fang 6. Open Slayer Talent SA: 3d6
7. Nature Fang 7. VMC Rogue - Sneak Attack SA: 4d6
8. Nature Fang 8. Open Slayer Talent
9. Nature Fang 9. Improved Familiar
10. Nature Fang 10. Open Slayer Talent
11. Nature Fang 11. VMC Rogue - Evasion SA: 6d6
12. Nature Fang 12. Open Advanced Slayer Talent

Each one of the open slayer talents can be used to pick up combat feats, and there are up to three open feats if human is chosen (one or two at first level and one at twelfth thanks to the advanced slayer talent). This gives a lot of build flexibility and I'm struggling to decide how best to round out the character.

@Firebug: That flying blade/ far strike monk build of yours is one of my favorite swash builds I have ever seen. Saw it on that dagger damage thread recently and really loved it. kudos.

I bring that up to say you should definitely look at that build Maw. I think it's a perfect example of how much a monk dip can do for a build with it's feat efficiency. Even if you're not going the thrown weapon route, Monk does so much more for combat manuever based builds, which swashes are usually interested in persuing.

If you're considering a rogue dip I'd say 4 levels of unchained rogue (using the thug and scout archetypes) would be a stronger than two since it sets you up with a very nice debuffing attack and dex to hit and damage for your finessable weapon of choice. I know it's a more extensive dip, but I think it's exactly the kind of thing a mobile swashbuckler wants.

Either option would be strong, but if you're looking for a smaller dip (2 levels) then I would say go monk

All the OP said is to have the companion be the front line part of the duo with the possibility of using archery on the character.

Claxon makes very solid points about using domains to get the companion instead of the archetype, but to me there are a couple weaknesses to that approach I would want to avoid when conidering building an animal companion focused, damage dealing duo. First is that the only domain that grants your AC at level one is Chivalry, which is actually a mount, and so extremely limited in animal choices. Everything else comes on at level four, and only becomes good at level five with the feat tax of boon companion. If you want a viable companion that isn't a horse (or wolf if you were smart and went with a small race) from levels 1-4 then sacred huntmaster is the way to go. The feat tax is also a very real thing, especially for the archers that make better use of the unarchetyped inquisitor and were unable to snag the elf domain for a free feat.

In the debate between hunter and sacred huntmaster I'd have to say my vote goes to sacred huntmaster. I love the flavor of the inquisitor, domains add a lot of nice options, and bane makes for a very effective comabatant when it counts most. If you want access to the nature themed spells Hunter is the obvious choice, but I'm not even sure they are that much better than the inquisitor and buffing the ac. A bit better yes, but not by much I don't think. Divine Favor, Expeditious Retreat, Disguise Self, Invisibility, Magic Vestment, Heroism, Divine Power and Righteous Might are all good options that can be shared thanks to your special link.

What's your character concept? I'd second pretty much everything already mentioned, I think the druid list is lovely. If an animal companion/domain and wildshaping is what you want to take advantage of alongside your spell list then druid is the choice. I've been in love with the urban druid lately for at will alter self at level 6 and spontaneous domain spells.

It's been mentioned but I have to say control winds is one of the craziest spells druids have access to at the level they get it and my favorite for when you need to be the fear enducing, havoc wrecking, master of the elements you can be. Another one I'll call out and second is plant growth for it's power and versatility at it's spell level. Among other things it can be a very good way to get rich and afford the things you want most.

I think it's worth it to drop the 4th and 8th level abilities on celestial, saving yourself for the wings later on. While you're giving up a lot by not being able to get rage powers at level 12, it's refreshing to see a primalist build not go for pounce/come and get me. I love the idea of an angelic rager coming down from the skies. As for powers, I would consider picking up superstition and witch hunter at 4. This would give you a nice boost to saves and attack against a lot of enemies. If you're going to be running into a lot of outsiders witch hunter will get a lot of use, even though it generally doesn't need campaign support to be relevant. At level 8 I would consider picking up internal fortitude plus your favorite rage power that can only be used once a rage. Along with this pick up a flawed scarlet and green cabochon ioun stone for 8000gp. The ioun stone will turn any fatigue into sickened and any exhaustion picked up into the nauseated condition instead. Internal fortitude makes you immune to these conditions, allowing you to start and end a rage whenever you like to refresh your access to your 1/rage power(s). If you're really interested in this line I would consider commiting a power at level 4 to this strategy as well.

Do you have the option to rebuild at all? If so I think there are a couple options that open up some very nice abilities without giving up on flavor or power. I'm not a huge fan of the level one celestial power and I think giving it up for a bloodline familiar gives a lot more than what you're giving up. You still have access to bless for that angelic rager flavor and the familiar can be used in many ways beyond boosting your damage against a certain group of foes. The familiar archetypes have a lot of strong options, my favorites being mauler, valet, and decoy but I would strongly suggest you look into this yourself if rebuilding is an option. Improved Familiar is another great pickup that you can get around level 7-9. Familiars make amazing wand monkeys and buffing/debuffing support and can even help brawl with the mauler archetype or an improved familiar with good combat abilities.

The other option I was thinking about was the Blood Conduit archetype. It seems to mesh with the primalist just fine, has nice synergy with the familiar plan, and opens up access to some nice combat manuever feats instead of fast movement and bloodline feats. Highlights for me here are access to improved trip at level 1 without needing to pick up combat expertise. I haven't even looked at how to abuse the ability to cast swift action touch spells on your opponents with your combat manuevers but it seems really juicy. If it's good enough for the magus it should be for you too. This option would pair well with the internal fortitude plan if you pick up strength surge as another rage power to boost those combat manuevers to sky high levels every round.

Good luck with the build. I love small parties and it seems like you have the proper support to succeed with any number of choices.