Shadow Demon's page

I don't understand the Bestiary math. Paizo has to be adding in a proficiency bonus with the ability modifier. So, would the Halfling Footpad be Master proficient with a dagger in the above example?

Shadow Demon wrote:

Yes, I actually meant to state "You can't copy the entire SRD as a published work for sale either because this would be in violation of its copyright."

Quite a few companies have done just that. Creative Mountain Games have a very nice extensively hyperlinked set of PDFs of the 3.5 SRD.

Yes, this is value-added hyperlinked multitude of pdfs of about 3500 pages. Instead, I should have said "You shouldn't copy the entire SRD as a published work for sale without adding any value to it."

Nonetheless, it is relatively common to hear people implicitly claim that what's Open Content "isn't copyright" and it's worth correcting that. The distinction between Open Content and Product Identity has nothing to do with copyright really - those are just terms used in the OGL.

All I am saying is that ignoring the OGL, copyright protection is not available for names, titles, or short phases. This also includes ideas and concepts. A "beholder" under copyright means the "whole body of work" not just the name, the concept or idea, or even a single simple sentence of description. There is even a certain amount that could be used under Fair Use. The same is true for OGL open monsters which are also still under copyright. The use of "beholder" under Product Identity is enough for most to steer way clear which I agree with in principle of actual implementation but not not necessarily in the case of hypothetical theory.

If I have won the last PowerBall jackpot, I would have solely tempted to put it to the test.

@Vic
There is nothing here that I disagree which why I would personally steer clear of the beholder especially in a work that is essentially in competition. It is an example of how far some have taken it. The most of I could imagine is using the name "sphere of many eyes" along with short-stat block with no other description. Even then, I wouldn't do it with a printed work. Pdf only so that I would have 30 days to change per OGL Section 13 in case of C&D.

Joe likely doesn't have enough visibility for it to really matter.

@Steve
Actually, even the copyright of the beholder concept is questionable under "certain minimum amount of authorship." . A concept described in a simple sentence can't really qualify. It really is about protecting the whole body of work from wholesale copying and resell. Art is easy since a single picture that is worth a thousand words is the whole body of work. A word, a sentence, a concept, an idea is not.

As example, I present you "the sphere of many eyes" from Adventures Dark and Deep Bestiary by Joseph Bloch of BRW Games. The stats are nearly identical to 1977 AD&D Monster Manual entry. The text is rewritten and the description eliminates "eyestalks" and put the eyes directly on the sphere. The overall feel of the monster is distinctly beholder with only slight physical differences. This bestiary has been on OneBookShelf since September 2013.

The question is when everything that individually makes up the description of a monster is open when does the conceptual sum of these parts somehow become closed. Ideas and concepts cannot be copyrighted. So, the idea of a spherical monster with toothy maw and magical eye rays can't be copyrighted.

On the other hand, some like Paizo will never do what Joe did for his OSR game for a political reason as much as anything else. However, I am referring to the possible discretion in the support of 5e only not to use in competition.

Shadow Demon wrote:

Also, you can't copy the entire SRD as a published work either because this would be in violation of its copyright.

As long as you include the OGL you can reprint the entirety of the open content in the SRD, and the SRD is supposed to only contain open content.

You'd have to reformat things a little, since you can't use the same trade dress (fonts, borders, etc), but you can indeed reprint the entire SRD. People did it for 3rd edition, and Pathfinder is basically built on that fact.

Yes, I actually meant to state "You can't copy the entire SRD as a published work for sale either because this would be in violation of its copyright."

@Drejk

Yes not copyrightable but word is in Product Identity so can't be used even in sentence describing the gas spore which is open.

Even if a monster is open per the SRD, one simply can't copy a page out of the 5e MM to put in their own published monster book. Also, you can't copy the entire SRD as a published work either because this would be in violation of its copyright.

Let me give an example of what is possible. Take the "galeb duhr". This monster is on page 139. There is no question it would a copyright violation to copy the contents of this page. However, how about the following.

Galeb Duhr: AC 16; HP 85 (9d8+45); Spd 15ft,(30ft when
rolling, 60ft when rolling downhill); Melee slam (+8, 2d6+5
bludgeoning); SA animate boulders 1/day, rolling charge
(+2d6 bludgeoning DC 16 Str save or knocked prone);
Immune poison; Resist normal weapons; Str +5, Dex +2,
Con +5, Int +0, Wis +1, Cha +0; Senses darkvision 60ft,
tremorsense 60ft; AL N; CR 6; XP 2300.

I don't believe the above meets the criteria of "a certain minimum amount of authorship". If WoTC had put the name in Product Identify section, it would be a no-go however, in that case it could be changed to "guleb dahr" instead. Plus, it would be used in a way that supports 5e not competes against it.

Product Identity and Open Content are special terms of the OGL, but all of it is still subject to Copyright law (check any page of the PRD, for example and you'll see that it's copyright Paizo despite being predominantly open content).

When you release something under the OGL, you have to specify what is Product Identity and what is Open Content. Those who produce subsequent works using the OGL are entitled to use the material you've declared open - however there are also conditions they have to comply with. One of those is that they agree not to use anything which has been declared Product Identity (without a further specific license/agreement with the owner of that PI).

So both beholders and the contents of the SRD are protected by copyright laws. If you choose to use the OGL, you are entitled to use the stuff in the SRD (provided you comply with the terms of the OGL) and are agreeing to not use beholders (unless you get permission from WotC to do so, via a separate license).

Except "beholder" isn't copyrightable per the Circular 34 from the US Copyright Office. It can't be used because it is included in Product Identity. A product that uses it would invalidate their use of the OGL. Without the PI exclusion, the only legal protection would be possible trademark law.

"Under section 102 of the Copyright Act (title 17 of the United States Code),
copyright protection extends only to “original works of authorship.” The
statute states clearly that ideas and concepts cannot be protected by copyright.
To be protected by copyright, a work must contain a certain minimum
amount of authorship in the form of original literary, musical, pictorial, or
graphic expression. Names, titles, and other short phrases do not meet these
requirements."

"Some brand names, trade names, slogans, and phrases may
be entitled to protection under laws relating to unfair
competition, or they may be entitled to protection and
registration under the provisions of state or federal trademark
laws. The federal trademark statute covers trademarks and
service marks—words, phrases, symbols, or designs that
distinguish the goods or services of one party from those of
another. The Copyright Office has no role in these matters."

The SRD defines what is open and what is Product Identify but there is gray content that is not included in either. For monsters, some of this gray becomes definitely open because of Tome of Horrors deal made by Clark Peterson. (i.e about 27 stat-blocks from 5e MM, 10 of which are included in 5e SRD). With SRD, SRD variants like bugbear chief, ToH, few others like the mythical cyclops, inclusion of "intellect devourer", "troglodyte", and pixie" which should be in SRD approximately 85% of the 434 5e MM stat-blocks are open.

The great irony is of the 15% (about 65 stat-blocks) left that are closed only 17 are included in Product Identity section. Names cannot be copyrighted per Circular 34 quote above nor would one be in violation of the OGL since that are not in the Product Identity section. Monsters such as "kuo-toa", "slaad", "modron", and "yugoloth" are not in the 17.

Allow me to give an example of why the 5e SRD is not as limited as some may think.

Per Circular 34 from US Copyright Office: Copyright Protection not available for names, titles, or short phases. These have to be trademarked like Dungeons & Dragons or Forgotten Realms. The federal trademark statute covers trademarks and service marks—words, phrases, symbols, or designs that distinguish the goods or services of one party from those of another.

Per the OGL, if not trademarked, they have to be listed as Product Identity like beholder, mind flayer, or carrion crawler.

Here is example that is neither trademarked or listed as product identity. It is not in the 3e SRD or the 5e SRD.

It is the druid/sorcerer/warlock/wizard cantrip: poison spray. A cantrip name made up of two common words. Per Circular 34, I can definitely use it in a list for an NPC, monster, or character. In fact, since the format and terminology of the spell description is present in the 5e SRD, the spell could simply be rewritten and fall under Fair Use. There is no reason to do that because the 5e SRD is about writing new not trying to copy existing material.

What one can absolutely not do is take the 5e Player's Handbook and remove all the trademarks and Product Identify, slap the OGL in the back, and sell your very own version of the 5e PH. This is direct violation of Fair Use where one is attempting to profit by copying WoTC's original literary expression.

Last day!

We have hit 12 stretch goals, and the $95 Complete GM package is hugely discounted from retail, so you need to get it while it's cheap and while it comes with lots of free stuff. Don't miss out on what's going to be a popular and classic adventuring area for 3 editions simultaneously.

Hi FGG, I want to back this but I'm not sure how I should be doing this.

I would like to get the two hardcovers of the 2 main books Borderland Provinces and Adventures in the Borderland Provinces, and get PDF versions of the Player Guide, the Player Gazeteer, the Journey Generator and Rogues in Remballo.

However, I'm not seeing this as an option.

Am I reading the various pledges and addons correctly?

Let us revisit this for a moment:

Choose $12 Player PDF set then add the 2 hardcovers for $70. This gives a total of $82. However, you still have to add the Journey Generator which will cost about $5 (from the consideration from the Player PDF set that guide is about $5 and the gazetteer is about $7). The total now comes to about $87 plus shipping. The free pdf of Rogues of Remballo is available now for backers.

Consider that you can get everything in print plus all of the pdfs for $95 including the special print of Rogues of Remballo. The shipping difference is going to be neligible between the two options. You will save about $8 with the first option.

$95 is the not only the better deal; it is a great value for what you are getting.

No one should choose either the four-book option or six book pledge levels which are more expensive by $9 and $4, respectively.

The best discount is at the $95 especially considering the softcovers come to $45 as add-ons.

Recommendation: Choose the $95 Complete GM Book Set and then add the appropriate number of $35 hardcovers in your chosen system.

@Curmudgeonly: You are correct there is no separate PDF price for the softcovers. The best guess is at approximately $6 based on $12 Player's Pledge. It should be easy to add the pdf price in parenthesis to the softcover add-ons on the main KS page. Otherwise, these prices should definitely be there at the BackerKit level.

The free adventure "Rogues in Remballo" is a preview to a campaign setting book for Rappan Athuk and Barakus (and other adventure sites as well) that is done in 3 systems: 5e, Pathfinder, and S&W.

Further, a companion book called "Adventures in the Borderland Provinces" written originally for 5e (also to be converted to Pathfinder and S&W) by team of authors led by Ari Marmell is also forthcoming.

It is exciting Lost Lands project that will be coming to a Kickstarter very soon.