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![]() bbangerter wrote: That is, you cannot by the rules make a charge attack (full round action) and cast a standard action spell. So in casting this spell you are breaking the normal rules. At this point getting a charge attack as part of the (standard) action to cast the spell, or the casting of the spell allows you to make a charge attack becomes a distinction without difference => you only get the charge attack by casting the spell => thus casting this spell grants you a charge attack (even if the language on that is poorly written). Wouldn’t the spell then have written "upon casting this spell, you get a free Charge attack"? The wording suggests the spell and the Charge happen simultaneously (even though the charge itself is mentioned in the effect entry).This is also why I'm starting to think casting this on a mount means having to make a concentration check due to vigorous movement... Either way, I would love to see some official ruling on this. I hope Paizo still does that for 1e. ![]()
![]() Well... it's not backwards. It's just written in a confusing order;
Normally, these weird entries in the effect are no problem to resolve, but since Flash Forward already is unclear in this situation, this will only add to the confusion. ![]()
![]() Although "you" in the effect of the spell would refer to the target, being the mount if you cast it using Shared spellcasting, it isn't the mount that is casting it. Therefore, the part of "as part of casting the spell, you make a Charge attack" can only refer to the caster, rather than a potential other target. Weird and broken as that is written, I think Zza Ni has a point there. However, I agree with Belafon that that only makes any further mention of "you" in the effect ambigouis. Where is the line on who is refered by "you" then? The more we discuss this, the more I agree that this spell needs to be rewritten. After my own last comment I realised there is another snake in the grass here; no matter what the outcome will be, casting this spell while mounted will likely require a concentration check due to vigorous movement... the mount will be charging as you cast it, after all. This is another problem that could render the spell potentially useless. Although the funny thing is, that all the problems so far can be solved if the mount was the actual caster of the spell.
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![]() zza ni wrote:
I suppose a rider is considered carried by the mount... but using it on the mount (when you have share spell, which I unfortunatly don't have) will only let the mount charge; you will already have spend your standard action to cast the spell. You may even have to make a concentration check since now you are casting while your mount is charging? This use may be more likely rules wise to teleport both you and your mount back, but it means not actually doing a charge yourself... shame about that lance in your hand that would have gotten double damage (or triple with spirited charge) if you were joining the charge.
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![]() I kind of expected the same conclusion; rider and mount charge in unison, meaning the mount will likely charge with you regardless whenever or not it is affected by the spell.
I can see generous GMs ruling the mount gets affected as well, but RAW it seems that this is a fancy way to dismount your mount with a charge. -Leaving the mount in question all by itself on the front line. Still usefull, just very situational dependant. It's still tricky wording, though... a very ungenerous GM might rule you dismount and charge for this spell, without the mount in question. Since this is a Pathfinder Society Character, I'm not sure if I should take this spell; I'm subjected to a different GM very often and not confident in my ability to rule lawyer desirable outcomes... potentially making this a useless spell to learn.
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![]() I'm using an Inquisitor with the chivalry inquisition, granting me a mount. I just obtained 4th level spellcasting, and noticed the spell "Flash Forward";
Flash Forward wrote:
Unsurprisingly, charging is a big part of my build (I'm on a mount afterall, why not use a lance?), so the spell could be usefull... except... it's not clear to me if this spell allows the mount to charge with you. Does anybody knows if casting flash forward while mounted allows you to charge mounted? ![]()
![]() LordKailas wrote:
This hits particularly close to home... Maybe the kobolts were already on a budget if they were making such a mess... or did they try to send goblins?![]()
![]() So it seems the FAQ really did change it to a full-round action for the rider. Be it under normal circumstances, off course.
Odd thing is, the FAQ mentions the print in the core rulebook will be altered, but I haven't seen the new print yet. As far as I know, The print still reads:
If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack. Even at your mount’s full speed, you don’t take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge) Did Paizo forget to change the print?
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![]() Someone just pointed out to me a FAQ has errata'd a thing I thought was a given; I thought charging with a mount is a standard action (attack at the end of the mount's charge) for the rider. This suggests it is now a full-round (charge attack) for the rider.
Meanwhile, I see tons of threads in ancient history all widely still accepting it is still a standard action. Even some that came after this FAQ. Am I missing something here? Is it still a standard or is it a full round now? ![]()
![]() I'll put this out here just for the sake of example, as I'm pretty sure there are more feats that have this requirement... but I was looking at the guided hand feat.
Guided hand:
Your deity blesses any strike you make with that deity’s favored weapon.
Prerequisite: Channel energy class feature, Channel Smite, proficiency with your deity’s favored weapon. Benefit: With your deity’s favored weapon, you can use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Strength or Dexterity modifier on attack rolls. Obviously, this is nice for clerics. They get all the requirements pretty quick and easily, and they can start wacking their opponents using their wise minds instead of their innate ability to wack things with their strength.
But what about non-clerics? There are quite a few classes that get channel energy, but the class ability of proficiency with your diety's favored weapon is a bit more rare.
For instance, a shaman with the life spirit gets channel energy. They're profficient with daggers... Could Pharasma as diety be an option to get guided hand to work? On top of that, a FAQ from paizo already claims the class ability can grant unarmed strike. Does anyone who follows Irori and has improved unarmed strike (and the other requirements for this feat) also qualify for guided hand? ![]()
![]() Intoxicated Illithid wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but they shouldn't be evaluated against normal offensive cantrips since they're usually not the same amount of actions. You could for example use Stoke the Heart and cast a spell. Oh, my bad... I thought they costed 2 actions. That does change things.![]()
![]() Lightning Raven wrote: Imma stop you right there. Feats are the main source of features in the game, so thinking that this is a negative thing in PF2e is meaningless I didn't say it was a negative thing PF2 works this way. As I said, the problem is that most of these hexes aren't worth a feat. Lightning Raven wrote: Some Hexes are quite nice and some of them are in line with other cantrips and some of them are terrible Well, since the hexes are tied to patrons, that means noone will pick anything aside from Winter patron and Baba Yaga (if that one even is legal). Because the rest of them aren't worth their actions in combat compared to a regular spel cantrip.![]()
![]() I think they over-nerfed the hexes from 1st edition. They used to be pretty powerfull.
Now they nerfed it so that they're barely worth a feat to begin with... but now they made the chance that feats are the only way to get hexes! It doesn't look good for the witch class in terms of power balance in the game... which is a shame, because I loved witches and shamans in 1st edition. ![]()
![]() Luke_Parry wrote:
As far as I can tell... the patron itself is Common. ![]()
![]() So, this is about the Baba Yaga Patron's Hex cantrip.
Spirit Object:
Cast Single Action or Two Actions somatic, verbal Range 30 feet; Targets 1 unattended object up to 1 Bulk Using a sliver of Baba Yaga's power, you briefly bring an object to life. The object gains a means of locomotion, such as sprouting chicken legs, and Strides up to 25 feet to a space you decide within range. If you spent 2 actions Casting the Spell, the object then attacks one creature of your choice adjacent to its new space. Make a melee spell attack roll against the creature. On a success, the creature takes bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage (as appropriate for the object) equal to 1d4 plus your spellcasting ability modifier, and on a critical success, it takes double damage. Heightened (+1) Increase the maximum Bulk of the target by 1 and the damage by 1d4. Up till now, I assumed since no duration was stated, the hex was just instantanious; you can make an object walk (fun, I guess... or prevent some key item from falling in the wrong hands by making it walk towards you), and optionally, make it attack an enemy.
But I noticed something on the PFS options blog that suggests otherwise; PFS character options blog wrote: Per design team clarification, an item animated by the spirit object (page 32) hex uses the spellcaster’s spell DC as its AC. Its Hardness and Hit Points remain unchanged from their normal values as listed on page 577 of the Core Rulebook. Why are hardness, hit points and AC discussed for an object that does little more than move and hit? Or is that object actually going to stay around for longer? I could be wrong... maybe they are simply stating this for the purpose of oppertunity attacks (even though only fighters can make those now)?![]()
![]() KrispyXIV wrote:
I agree. It's clear the nails are meant as the 2e version of the Hex strike feat. Except you now start with the Hex, and get a free unarmed attack, rather than the other way around. (1e Hex strike: get a free hex upon an unarmed strike) ![]()
![]() Andrew the Warwitch wrote: I was curious about the Cavalier Dedication. Say my fighter wants to become a cavalier and commits to the Animal Order of the Druids, would he be able to take a lion as his companion? Or does it have to be ONLY an animal with the "Mount" special ability which only is the horse, pony, camel or dog? You left out the riding drake... But that one does have the "uncommon" tag...![]()
![]() A is slightly simular to B.
your conclusion; oh, that means A cannot possibly work with C. Just because an effect doesn't stack, doesn't mean the "lower" option can't be applied. Non-stacking feats do not mean in the slightest that a simular feat of a prequisite of said feat does not work together either. Besides, as I pointed out before, Ascetic Style is a style feat, thus a stance. It's not an effect that is always present, it needs to be activated. Unlike Monastic Legacy that is always present. Also, if anything... the fact that you can get Monastic Legacy through Ascetic Style only implies they would interact.
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![]() Oh, looks like they updated it... looks like most of it's legal! *sarcasm* Totally unrelated question... Anyone know a good name for a familiar that's a chair?
Baba Yaga Patron: Baba Yaga teaches you how to transfer spirits into objects and freeze your foes. A witch with Baba Yaga as their patron can choose an inanimate object as a familiar. If they do, they still can gain master abilities and some familiar abilities that don’t require movement. The object familiar has no Speeds and must select a Speed familiar ability before it can move, coming to life in a way appropriate to the chosen Speed and using the statistics of a normal familiar for that day. ![]()
![]() My bad, you're absolutely right, according to this FAQ:
FAQ wrote:
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![]() willuwontu wrote:
Yes, we established at the very start of this thread it's likely the abilities do not stack. You'd have 2; Warpriest's sarcret weapon, counting only warpriest levels.Fighter's advanced weapon training (focussed weapon), that either counts only fighter levels, or counts both the fighter and the warpriest levels on account of "fighter" levels counting as "warpriest" levels... thereby making all levels warpriest levels. I am more and more eager to hear an actual compelling argument for or against it. ![]()
![]() Quixote wrote: being hit by a car, is it evil because I pushed them? You pushed someone and they got hit by a car? That's pretty evil indeed. I guess it is easy to respond when you completely ignore everything else being said by someone else and only take a small portion of what they said to respond to. ![]()
![]() LordKailas wrote: Such as the Huntmaster feat That was the one I was thinking of earlier. Thanks, it was a racial feat... not a racial trait... ![]()
![]() Derklord wrote: Not without a general rule being made. They actually changed the wording of FoB via erratum to make it stack, exactly because it didn't before. Oh, the wording was different before from the wording in the FAQ? I hadn't checked, I just went with the wording in the FAQ. Derklord wrote:
Ah, I see where the misunderstanding comes from; you "paraphrased" the wording, then gave the exact wording, but added just those esses. This caused me to think you thought your "paraphrased" sentence was what the actual wording was, and the sentence with the addes esses (which was closer to the wording as far as I could read) was a paraphrased version of what I had written down. Sorry about that, didn't realize the paraphrasing. But the paraphrasing is the problem in this case. It's not paraphrased; it's a completely different meaning. "instead of" and "as" don't mean the same, afterall. One replaces, the other pretents to be.
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![]() Ok, I was hoping to stay out of this increasingly heated argument...
Argument 1:
LordKailas wrote: This means that now you are Druid 4 + Cavalier 4(8) = Level 12 Horse animal companion. I'll have to pick Derklord's side on this one. When you calculate your effective druid level, you either use the normal method of using Druid + Cavalier... which is 8. Or you use the Horsemaster's feat... which says druid level = character level... which is also 8. You take the higher of the 2. (but they're both 8) Argument 2:
LordKailas wrote:
I'm going to have to meet you halfway here. The horselord applies to only the Cavalier's mount. Although this is an animal companion that can also get druid levels from the actual druid class, it is a specific animal companion under the Cavalier. Furthermore, the Cavalier is no Packlord. He cannot devide his mount, so you have one level 8 mount. However... The druid is a packlord, and can choose not to add his druid levels to the Cavalier's mount. The Horselord feat will not apply to other companions than the mount, meaning the first horse will still be level 8, dispite not getting druid levels from the druid because of the horselord... But the druid can add other animal companions beside the mount.
Argument 3:
LordKailas wrote:
See my answer on Argument 2... yes this would work (on a Packlord druid). But I'll suggest taking druid levels only after this, because the hawk can't benefit from boon companion more than once... (boon companion feats can be taken more than once, but must be applied on different animal companions every time, it doesn't stack on the same one)Sidenote: aside from the packlord druid, though... a normal druid does not have the choice to use druid levels for other animal companions than one he already has. So a normal druid will have to add those levels to the Cavalier's mount. ![]()
![]() ... that FAQ actually confirms such wording on abilities do stack. (being the monk's level + BAB from other sources get treated as BAB) But the wording on the monk's flurry are just telling you to treat the monk's BAB as full when calculating the BAB for your attacks with a flurry. It doesn't appear to have ever suggested you don't get BAB from other sources anyway; they seemed to have FAQ'd that to avoid misunderstandings... to me at least, the wording was already pretty clear. Anyway, that's off-topic. Just to be clear; I do not fully 100% believe it stacks, as I already mentioned before, and still say this is up to a GM to decide... but Derklord, I do have to correct you.
Derklord wrote: No it doesn't. It means you use your Fighter level instead of the Warpriest level the class feature would normally use. It does not say you treat your Fighter levels as Warpriest levels! Whilst in fact, the actual quote on focussed weapon is; Weapon master's handbook, page 18 wrote: The fighter selects one weapon for which he has Weapon Focus and that belongs to the associated fighter weapon group. The fighter can deal damage with this weapon based on the damage of the warpriest’s sacred weaponACG class feature, treating his fighter level as his warpriest level. The fighter must have Weapon Focus with the selected weapon in order to choose this option.
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![]() Melkiador wrote: You may be thinking of Oracle. They have a FCB that can make their companion revelation higher than their level. You're right. An oracle with a revelation that gives an animal companion (Like Lunar: Primal companion or Nature: Bonded mount) and is either an Elf, Aasimar, Ifrit or Sylph can add 1/6th of a level as favorite class bonus to that revelation... getting a higher druid level for an animal companion once every 6 levels. ...
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![]() Taja the Barbarian wrote:
My bad, I should have specified I was talking about a two-handed weapon of a larger category; Core rulebook - weapons section wrote:
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![]() Intresting...
Imagine you're a 8 warpriest / 8 fighter.
I'll admit it's not solid though... and you'd have to discuss this with your GM for sure. ![]()
![]() Chell Raighn wrote: If you build into the Ascetic Style feat chain for Ascetic Strike, you wouldn't ever need Monastic Legacy... also Monastic Legacy wouldn't have any effect on your "Unarmed Strike Damage" from Ascetic Strike, as it is specifically "as a monk 4 levels lower than your character level" adding half of your non-monk levels to your monk levels for determining your unarmed strike damage won't change the result from Ascetic Style. If your a level 15 Fighter with Ascetic Style, you do damage with your chosen weapon as if you were a level 11 Monk using unarmed strike, if the same character somehow qualified for and took Monastic Legacy, their damage would still be as a level 11 monk's unarmed strike. Ascetic style & follow up doesn't effect natural weapons, it effects a selected monk weapon for which you have weapon focus. Natural weapons aren't monk weapons. This is also a style, which means it activates on stance, while monastic legacy is a "passive" effect.So that is beside the point. For the purpose of this scenario, ascetic strike is merely very high feat tax. The point still is, Monastic Legacy has the ability to grant the entire class feature to a character that doesn't have it. ![]()
![]() Derklord wrote:
I see where you're comming from, but I'd like to point you to a sneaky 3rd feat... Ascetic Strike:
Your weapon strikes deal more damage than usual.
Prerequisite(s): Ascetic Form; Ascetic Style; Weapon Focus with the chosen weapon; base attack bonus +7 or monk level 7th. Benefit(s): You can use the unarmed strike damage of a monk 4 levels lower than your character level (minimum 1st) instead of the base damage for the chosen weapon. Ascetic Strike functions in all other ways as the brawler’s close weapon mastery class feature. In addition, you ignore the still mind class feature prerequisite for the Monastic Legacy feat. As Bladelock pointed out in less words, and as you'll realize while reading Ascetic Strike... It's very well possible to obtain Monestic Legacy without being an actual monk. This means that someone who doesn't have the unarmed strike monk class feature gets the added damage to unarmed strike completely from the feat Monestic Legacy. No class feature present to begin with. That means the damage is applied through the feat, not the class feature.
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![]() Well, I'd still say it's up for debate. The unarmed strike damage of the monk might be a class feature, but Monastic Legacy is a feat that applies the effect of using that class feature as if it's a higher level. While you could argue that the class feature is there on the side of things, getting altered only as a technicallity whilst having no effect on the natural weapon being used in this case... But you could also argue that since Monastic Legacy is a feat that will apply as effect on unarmed strike that it's damage is treated as if a monk of a higher level, then it is most certainly an effect that's being applied by a feat and therefor should alter the natural attack. The wording still leaves too much up for debate if you ask me. ![]()
![]() It's simple. Normally, the penalty is a -2 AND a -4 for nonproficiency. That's a -6 total.
So basicly, all classes take that -6 total. The titan mauler just throws it all on one pile and starts reducing it. and, off course, titan maulers can just weild a large two handed weapon... which is usually not the case for medium sized characters. ![]()
![]() Every animal compainion class ability usually comes with the "your X level counts as your druid level (possibly -3 or -4) for this animal companion".
Although I'm pretty sure there was a trait or alternative racial trait that could actually add a level above yours... but I can't seem to find it now, maybe it doesn't exist... ![]()
![]() It's indeed weird wording... I wouldn't have posted this if it wasn't completely unclear. I posted this to see other people's opinions. I'd also really like to see where the line is on Feral Combat Training right now... because there's tons of feats that have improved unarmed strike as a prequisite, and it's often quite unclear how they would play out with Feral Combat training. ![]()
![]() I know Feral Combat training got errata'd to remove the wording that it also included getting unarmed strike augments on your natural attack... but let's look at these two feats... Feral Combat training:
You were taught a style of martial arts that relies on the natural weapons from your racial ability or class feature.
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon. Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite. Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature. Monastic Legacy:
Prerequisite: Still mind class feature, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: Add half the levels you have in classes other than monk to your monk level to determine your effective monk level for your base unarmed strike damage. This feat does not make levels in classes other than monk count toward any other monk class features. ML is a feat that has Improved unarmed strike as a prerequisite. So, Feral Combat Training will apply it's effects to a natural weapon...
Also... if you just stay monk... it's at full level... ![]()
![]() A slayer archetype that gives an animal companion. More classes that can get drake companions... and make drake companions viable More weapons that do mounted charge damage. There's a reason you only see lances being used when you have a mount... it's the only weapon that gets this. An official archetype or feat that allows a monk to use INT instead of WIS. A god of jousting that has animal domain and has lance as favourite weapon.
A feat or class ability that allows you to maintain all current grapples at once. ![]()
![]() How about instead they see their only way out without having to face the entire army of the king, is using the King's escape tunnel?
It's a fun dungeon to start. But halfway out, it seems the poorly maintained tunnel has collapsed, and an opening leads surprisingly enough to the streets. That's where you start the chase. In this case, the player's first challenge would be to try and blend in. I'm sure you can continue from there? It might lead them to the gates, where a spiteful captain has set up a roadblock. They will have to fight past this "boss", depending on how well they did the chase, reinforcements might come soon from behind? Just suggestions. ![]()
![]() I would say it isn't evil. The intent for freeing slaves is only good.
Alignments are funny and full of grey areas. In this case, taking part in slave trade in order to free slaves, is closer to a neutral approach in my book. Ending the slave trade is the good thing to do... and, off course, simply buying the slaves to have slaves would be the evil thing to do. The other neutral approach would be to do nothing. hurray for endless alignment discussions ![]()
![]() MrSin wrote:
What an utter chaotic think to say. Now you will never be ale to learn how to punch people and be immune to desease for some reason.
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