Titan Mauler's Massive Weapons Ability


Rules Questions


I'm not sure to undertand correctly what this is doing.

First, here's the rule for inappropriately sized weapons :

Quote:

A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

If I'm understanding this correctly it means that a medium creature can wield a large one-handed weapon two-handed albeit at a -2 attack rolls penalty, and can't wield a large two-handed weapon at all. Amirite ?

Now, Titan Mauler's Massive Weapons :

Quote:

At 3rd level, a titan mauler becomes skilled in the use of massive weapons looted from her titanic foes.

She can use two-handed weapons meant for creatures one size category larger, but the penalty for doing so is increased by 4. However, the attack roll penalty for using weapons too large for her size is reduced by 1, and this reduction increases by 1 for every three levels beyond 3rd (to a minimum of 0).

Basically, this allows the Titan Mauler to wield a large two-handed weapon, but at a whooping penalty of -6 (-5 with the reduction).

So, either there's something I misunderstood or you just can't use this as the penalty is just too enormous for the benefits it gives you.


The penalty reduction gets better later on but yeah, this is an option for style over substance.

Dark Archive

Why do people think al having a negative studly makes things impossible?

I have non optimized archers that take -8 to shoot into melee threw cover and still routinely hit.

-5 means a lot less to a full BAB raging barbarian than you might think. Especially when you add in charging, flanking, high ground, and stuff like that

Also, the giantblooded trait and irongrip gauntlets reduce this penalty to nothing.


Or, forget the penalty entirely and be a Tiefling with Over-Sized Limbs. Lol.


Have fun with your 1% chance to get that ability...


Derklord wrote:
Have fun with your 1% chance to get that ability...

Playing as a Titan Mauler, coincidentally, has the exact same probability. Lol.

That's a lie. The probability of me playing a Titan Mauler is much smaller than 1%. Even if I did roll a 16, or whatever it is, and got Over-Sized Limbs... I would just take one level of Titan Fighter.

And then swiftly abandon the class, and multiclass into Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest so I can get my Weapon Training back... which I think is more important than the size of your weapon, but I'm not a p0rnst@r, so what do I know?

Dark Archive

VoodistMonk wrote:
Derklord wrote:
Have fun with your 1% chance to get that ability...

Playing as a Titan Mauler, coincidentally, has the exact same probability. Lol.

That's a lie. The probability of me playing a Titan Mauler is much smaller than 1%. Even if I did roll a 16, or whatever it is, and got Over-Sized Limbs... I would just take one level of Titan Fighter.

And then swiftly abandon the class, and multiclass into Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest so I can get my Weapon Training back... which I think is more important than the size of your weapon, but I'm not a p0rnst@r, so what do I know?

Titan mauler3/2 handed fighter 3/growth domain cleric or living monolith is terrifying

Titan fighter 1/ arsenal Chaplin 19 is a standby i always keep in mind


It's simple. Normally, the penalty is a -2 AND a -4 for nonproficiency. That's a -6 total.
The titan mauler gets proficiency, taking that -4 out of the picture. But the -2 gets an extra -4, bringing back the -6. Then every now and then, the titan mauler decreases that penalty.

So basicly, all classes take that -6 total. The titan mauler just throws it all on one pile and starts reducing it.

and, off course, titan maulers can just weild a large two handed weapon... which is usually not the case for medium sized characters.

Shadow Lodge

Runehacking wrote:

It's simple. Normally, the penalty is a -2 AND a -4 for nonproficiency. That's a -6 total.

The titan mauler gets proficiency, taking that -4 out of the picture. But the -2 gets an extra -4, bringing back the -6. Then every now and then, the titan mauler decreases that penalty.

So basicly, all classes take that -6 total. The titan mauler just throws it all on one pile and starts reducing it.

and, off course, titan maulers can just weild a large two handed weapon... which is usually not the case for medium sized characters.

The -4 only kicks in if you are not proficient with the weapon, so a medium size character with all martial weapon proficiency using a large longsword (using both hands) only takes the -2 'size' penalty: An oversized longsword is still a longsword.

With Massive Weapons, the same character (at 3rd level) could wield a large Greatsword at a -5 penalty. If he picks up a large Meteor Hammer instead, he could wield it with a -9 penalty (assuming he doesn't have that specific exotic proficiency).

Basically, it's a 'lose accuracy to gain damage' trade off, but if you are fighting a lot of large weapon-using creatures, it's main benefit is your ability to use their own weapons against them.


Taja the Barbarian wrote:

The -4 only kicks in if you are not proficient with the weapon, so a medium size character with all martial weapon proficiency using a large longsword (using both hands) only takes the -2 'size' penalty: An oversized longsword is still a longsword.

With Massive Weapons, the same character (at 3rd level) could wield a large Greatsword at a -5 penalty. If he picks up a large Meteor Hammer instead, he could wield it with a -9 penalty (assuming he doesn't have that specific exotic proficiency).

Basically, it's a 'lose accuracy to gain damage' trade off, but if you are fighting a lot of large weapon-using creatures, it's main benefit is your ability to use their own weapons against them.

My bad, I should have specified I was talking about a two-handed weapon of a larger category;

Core rulebook - weapons section wrote:


The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.


Runehacking wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:

The -4 only kicks in if you are not proficient with the weapon, so a medium size character with all martial weapon proficiency using a large longsword (using both hands) only takes the -2 'size' penalty: An oversized longsword is still a longsword.

With Massive Weapons, the same character (at 3rd level) could wield a large Greatsword at a -5 penalty. If he picks up a large Meteor Hammer instead, he could wield it with a -9 penalty (assuming he doesn't have that specific exotic proficiency).

Basically, it's a 'lose accuracy to gain damage' trade off, but if you are fighting a lot of large weapon-using creatures, it's main benefit is your ability to use their own weapons against them.

My bad, I should have specified I was talking about a two-handed weapon of a larger category;

Core rulebook - weapons section wrote:


The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

Proficency doesn't equate to that situation at all though... If you try to wield an oversized two-handed weapon and you do not have a class feature or item that allows you to do so, you simply can't wield it... there is no proficency... you don't add an extra -4 non-proficency penalty, you simply can't wield the weapon at all, period. Titan Mauler & Titan Fighter both have a specific class feature that allows them to wield oversized two-handed weapons at added penalties.

Titan Fighter at an added -2 penalty, and Titan Mauler at an added -4 penalty (effectively -3 due to their immediate penalty reduction)... Both archetypes reduce the penalty even further as they gain levels, Titan Fighter reducing by a total of 2 and the titan mauler reducing by a total of 6 by the end of their progression.

Now, to put this into practice...

Rex, the level 3 Human Two-handed Fighter slays a giant, the giant drops a Large Great Sword. Rex not having the Titan Fighter or Titan Mauler archetypes is completely unable to wield the weapon since the oversized weapon rules would make it something other than a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon. He could use it while under the effects of an Enlarge Person spell assuming he picks the sword up after the spell goes into effect however.

Meanwhile, Grog, the level 3 Orc Titan Mauler Barbarian is able to simply pick the weapon up and swing it around as if it were a normal two-handed sword for him, albeit at a -5 penalty (-2 Oversized Weapon, -4 Massive Weapons, +1 penalty reduction). At levels 6, 9, 12, 15, & 18 Grog's penalty from using the weapon reduces further until it is eventually gone entirely at level 18.

Rex retrains into Titan Fighter after the party slays another giant and gets yet another Large Great Sword, he is now able to wield their Large Two-handed weapons the same as Grog but at a -3 penalty (-2 Oversized Weapon, -2 Giant Weapon Wielder, +1 penalty reduction). When the party reaches level 7 Rex's penalty reduces again leaving him at a -2 with no further penalty reductions unless he gets a pair of Iron Grip Gauntlets.

If either of them had the Giant-Blooded campaign trait (from Giant Slayer), then they would reach a penalty of 0 much earlier and easier, Rex at level 7 and Grog at level 9...

If Rex never retrains into Titan Fighter and never takes 3 levels of Titan Mauler Barbarian over the course of the campaign, then he never gains the ability to wield oversized two-handed weapons. He can't simply suffer a -4 non-proficiency penalty on top of the -2 oversized weapon penalty and call it a day, the rules state outright that he simply can't wield the weapon. He may be able to carry it around, but that's all he can do with it. Even the improvised weapon rules won't allow him to use it at an added penalty since in order to use an actual weapon as an improvised weapon you must use it in a way counter to it's intended usage (like using a cross-bow as a club), and even at that the Over-sized weapon rules would still apply even as an improvised weapon, making it yet again, unwieldable.


With Massive Weapons, the same character (at 3rd level) could wield a large Greatsword at a -5 penalty. If he picks up a large Meteor Hammer instead, he could wield it with a -9 penalty (assuming he doesn't have that specific exotic proficiency).

Basically, it's a 'lose accuracy to gain damage' trade off, but if you are fighting a lot of large weapon-using creatures, it's main benefit is your ability to use their own weapons against them.

My bad, I should have specified I was talking about a two-handed weapon of a larger category;

Core rulebook - weapons section wrote:


The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

Proficency doesn't equate to that situation at all though... If you try to wield an oversized two-handed weapon and you do not have a class feature or item that allows you to do so, you simply can't wield it... there is no proficency... you don't add an extra -4 non-proficency penalty, you simply can't wield the weapon at all, period. Titan Mauler & Titan Fighter both have a specific class feature that allows them to wield oversized two-handed weapons at added penalties.

Titan Fighter at an added -2 penalty, and Titan Mauler at an added -4...

Good explanation.

Is there any benefit to going titan fighter and titan mauler?
Could you weild 2hw in each hand? If you did both classes combined Or would you have to use a small sized spear/axe for a medium creature in each hand?

Would the alchemist (extra arm feat) change any of this? Since you now have 4 arms Or a tentacle?

I believe you are saying "yes you can weild a large sized weapon". But I am asking can you weild 2 of them, if you double up on those classes. No matter the penalties.


Invisible Barbrian Cleric wrote:

Could you weild 2hw in each hand? If you did both classes combined Or would you have to use a small sized spear/axe for a medium creature in each hand?

Would the alchemist (extra arm feat) change any of this?

You could wield 2 two-handed weapons with Titan Mauler thanks to its second level ability Jotungrip, which specifically allows you to wield two-handed weapons with one hand, but... The penalties for wielding large two-handed weapons this way are absurd.

Jotungrip -2
Two-weapon fighting (w/feat) -4
Large two-handed weapon -5
Total: -11

Without the two-weapon fighting feat, it's -13 on the main-hand and -17 on the off-hand and you need 15 dex for the feat unless you go 2 levels into ranger or slayer, so it's a build that requires a high level character with good stats to be worthwhile.


Dryad Knotwood wrote:


You could wield 2 two-handed weapons with Titan Mauler thanks to its second level ability Jotungrip, which specifically allows you to wield two-handed weapons with one hand, but... The penalties for wielding large two-handed weapons this way are absurd.

Jotungrip -2
Two-weapon fighting (w/feat) -4
Large two-handed weapon -5
Total: -11

Without the two-weapon fighting feat, it's -13 on the main-hand and -17 on the off-hand and you need 15 dex for the feat unless you go 2 levels into ranger or slayer, so it's a build that requires a high level character with good stats to be worthwhile.

Its a bit of a stretch (you can check the other threads) but Jotun Grip combined with the Effortless Dual Wield Advanced Weapon Training Fighter option could allow doubling up on greatswords with less penalty. The problem still comes from using large weapons though.


Dryad Knotwood wrote:
Invisible Barbrian Cleric wrote:

Could you weild 2hw in each hand? If you did both classes combined Or would you have to use a small sized spear/axe for a medium creature in each hand?

Would the alchemist (extra arm feat) change any of this?

You could wield 2 two-handed weapons with Titan Mauler thanks to its second level ability Jotungrip, which specifically allows you to wield two-handed weapons with one hand, but... The penalties for wielding large two-handed weapons this way are absurd.

Jotungrip -2
Two-weapon fighting (w/feat) -4
Large two-handed weapon -5
Total: -11

Without the two-weapon fighting feat, it's -13 on the main-hand and -17 on the off-hand and you need 15 dex for the feat unless you go 2 levels into ranger or slayer, so it's a build that requires a high level character with good stats to be worthwhile.

The -11 isnt an issue for me. The ability to do this is worth those negatives and those can be compensation for in many ways. Just being able to do this is enough for me to make my dream character.

The higher the level, the better I will become. 10 lvls titan mauler minimum for beast totem. So thats +3; that would bring it to -8, traits can add at least +2; So -6. enlarge person adds a ton of damage and +2. So now -4. Every option available will be put into just wielding these weapons. Furious/couragous weapon enchantments will help immensely.


Its a bit of a stretch (you can check the other threads) but Jotun Grip combined with the Effortless Dual Wield Advanced Weapon Training Fighter option could allow doubling up on greatswords with less penalty. The problem still comes from using large weapons though.

This is what I was thinking as well. Is it just impossible to weild them; due to size in each hand?

The text says I can, but the rules kinda make this questionable. Would the ( thunder and fang) earth breakers work? One in each hand?


Titan Mauler's Jotungrip explicitly wouldn't work with Titan Fighter for wielding two-handed weapons that are intended for larger creatures in one hand.

Jotungrip wrote:
The weapon must be appropriately sized for her

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Titan Mauler's Massive Weapons Ability All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.