Reef's page

Kiln Norn wrote:

You are assuming that every single person in the game is Lashunta WITH the student in the ability they are doing, or a Ysoki engineer or a Shirren captain. STOP.

Also, your calculations are always giving your people the absolutely BEST circumstances. Such as, using a SHUTTLE at tier 20 as an example of 'you can make piloting checks as long as you are doing this thing.'

It's a poor argument technique, learn better ones. Or you know, do relevant to the problem math. Such as, you are a Human, a Vesk, a Android, a Lashunta who put student points in things that aren't going to help with this one singular specific task, a Ysoki captain, a Shirren engineer, or anything else that isn't so stupidly maximized as 'everyone is playing Lashunta with student in their starship role that supports my claim that every class can do their part because they are the single best race in the game to prove things with.' Also, stop bringing up the one and only relevant theme as a way to say all ship actions are possible.

Also I'm not sure how many times I have to point out that we are going to see a fair number of characters that don't start the game with 18's in one stat, even less likely so that they can specialize into space combat.

In your engineering example earlier, did that soldier start with an 18 int? Because that's just stupid on part of the character. Like... absurd levels of stupid. He might do ship stuff alright occasionally but he's not worth anything anywhere else.

TLDR - Asari superiority isn't a valid arguement for every class is capable of doing this thing we are talking about.

All he's saying is the rolls are possible. No need to be so harsh. I don't think you're reading what he's saying, "possible"

Yes, but having to jump through so many specific hoops to make it possible isn't really helping the discussion. It's possible to roll two consecutive natural 20s, but I wouldn't suggest building a game that relies on it. It's possible I'll get hit by a bus on the way to get the mail tonight, but it's not likely enough to factor into my plans :)

I'd wager very few players would even bother attempting a maneuver with only a 10% chance of sucess. So the fact it's technically possible, doesn't mean it isn't wonky.

Yeah it's a weird system but when you think about the potential unbalance from a party just selling their ship at 1st level it kind makes sense, at least to the point where it doesn't bother me personally. I don't have the link on hand but I'll have a dig through the forums and link it here when I find it

If I recall, the idea is that the group is putting loot into the ship, it's just happening offscreen. So, they're supposedly constantly tweaking and scavenging upgrade parts as they go along, but it doesn't get mentioned, the same way no one deals with purchasing food.

Xethik wrote:

Additionally, it does seem strange that your party's ship tier is always equal to APL.

I like the thought experiments this provokes. Like, if a level 2 PC steals a Tier 10 ship, can they simply not fly it due to DCs being too high (fantastic anti-theft measures!), or do parts start falling off as the ship becomes Tier 2?

Can a level 15 PC grow equipment in a desert when they discover a buried Tier 1 ship and try to get it up and running to escape the planet?

Of course, there are common sense answers to these, but it's fun to imagine the absurd. :)

Or if a higher level member joins the party, the ship suddenly becomes harder to fly the moment they step on board :).

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

So...question. Do we need to have the highest tier ship? Is there anything forcing the PC's to fly a ship with a tier equivalent to themselves? How likely is a lower tier ship piloted by higher level PCs to beat a higher tier ship of an equivalent APL?

Pretty sure I saw a dev post that players should be fighting ships of lower CR, because one ship vs one ship of equivalent CR isn't the same as four PCs against an equivalent CR challenge. Higher CR would be a more than 50% chance of your ship being blown up and a TPK.

Yeah, I was under the understanding that the Tier of your ship was automatically the APL. It just happens...you all level up, and voila, your ship does too. You don't get the choice to fly a lower tier ship.

Ya, here's hoping that we can find some form of progression that let's us feel like we are progressing.

You could always just call it (1 x Tier) instead of 1.5. That would allow the characters to feel like they're making progress. The sticking point would be if things like the Operative's bonus do apply. Wouldn't want to make it too easy for them.t Bu in that case, the issue becomes the discrepancy in class ability in a starship.

Someone on Reddit recommended that the DCs could be fixed by being changed like so, with the CRB DCs on the left and the changes on the right.

10+2*tier -> 10+1.5*tier
15+2*tier -> 15+1.5*tier
20+2*tier -> 20+1.5*tier
10+3*tier -> 25+1.5*tier

These make way more sense and allows non-ultra-specialized skill monkeys to hit most of the DCs and completely remove the impossible DCs entirely once you factor in a decent on-board computer.

EDIT: Here's some maths that shows what the changes do: Original maths vs altered maths.

Changing the Tier multiplier would definitely be the cleanest solution. And those numbers for 1.5 look about right. Assuming there isn't some other factor that's being missed in the calculations.

I really hope we can get some official word in here. Are these DCs meant for the captain to get at least 5 aid anothers from NPCs on the bridge?

As mentioned upthread, that would only help with larger ships, not high-tier ships of the size the players are apparently supposed to be flying.

Now that the weekend is over, I hope we see some official word on this. Let us know what we missed, whether it's just a typo in the formula,etc. Because right now, with this along with the Monster Math thread issues, I'm getting a not so good feeling about this. Games are complicated to be sure, but this is basic math which should have been readily apparent.

Do note this line from "Actions" on page 322:

Crew Actions - Actions wrote:

Class features and items affect crew actions only if specifically noted in the class feature or item.

These checks are a little harder than you expect. Expertise and Operative's Edge in particular are no help in starship combat.

That might make the Soldier feel less left out, but certainly doesn't mitigate the ultra-high DCs.

Hi, quick question about linked weapons:

1. If you link weapons, does that mean you roll one attack, and both either hit or miss together? Or is it one action, but two attack rolls?
2. It says the BP cost is 50% of the cost of the gun. Does that mean 50% on top of the price of two guns, or is the second gun half off? So, if you have a gun worth 10 BP, Is the linked pair 25 BP (10+10+5), or 15 BP (10+5)?
3. I'm assuming two linked weapons still take up two weapon slots, correct?

Thanks in advance!

And I just found the answer to number 1.. one attack roll for the pair. Darn, there's a lot of information to digest here...

Hi, quick question about linked weapons:

1. If you link weapons, does that mean you roll one attack, and both either hit or miss together? Or is it one action, but two attack rolls?
2. It says the BP cost is 50% of the cost of the gun. Does that mean 50% on top of the price of two guns, or is the second gun half off? So, if you have a gun worth 10 BP, Is the linked pair 25 BP (10+10+5), or 15 BP (10+5)?
3. I'm assuming two linked weapons still take up two weapon slots, correct?

Thanks in advance!

Ship combat works differently to regular combat. It sounds bad but it's not.

Well, not the alive/dead damage, but the critical system damage. But maybe that's not a big deal...I'll admit I haven't had much chance to fully digest everything yet.

I'll admit I was expecting it to be "lowest move first/highest fire first" just like the OP. But, I guess they figure with the simultaneous damage rule, that would be an extra level of complication.

I'd actually have preferred the high/low switch, but no simultaneous damage. As a DM, it's much less complicated for me to deal with the damage as it happens, instead of saving all damage ramifications to the end of the round.

To me, the problem isn't the infinite loop, but the fact it makes charging a waste of money.

A new battery is 330 credits, and can be recharged for half, so 165 credits.

You can buy a pulse caster rifle, which comes with a full battery, for 100 credits.

Why would anyone recharge that battery? Buy a new gun, pop the battery and throw the gun in storage. Use it for trade with local thugs. Donate it to the local orphans. Heck, throw the gun away and you are still ahead financially.

That is interesting almost seems like its priced for a box of grenades not a single one. That said it is one way to keep them as something you are not just throwing around willy nilly.

I suspect being a deterrent to throw them around willy nilly is exactly the reason for the outlandish prices. As someone upthread mentioned, otherwise standard procedure would be 'open door, everyone roll in a grenade or two, close door. Repeat as necessary'.

That being said, if that sort of tactic isn't a problem with your group of players (one way or another), price lists are about the easiest thing to houserule there is.

"Once detonated, the weapon is destroyed, just like a grenade."

This should be spelled out in the grenades section, but for now Mechanic has an entry covering how they work.

I'm guessing they never in a million years thought they had to spell out that grenades explode.

How customizable are starships? sort of, is it closer to "pick one of three base hulls and customize with points as you level" or maybe a bit more "choose a size/role of ship and as a group decide what it looks like and what its layout is?"

Also, are single player fighters an option?

Ooh, I'd like to hear about fighter options as well. I know a larger shop per group is standard, but the last time we played Star Wars (Saga edition) the group had one ship with a docked Z-95 that the Ace Pilot would jump into when the situation warranted. Sort of like they do on Rebels with the Ghost and the Phantom. It would be nice if such a thing was viable. It would open up some more interesting tactical combinations, to keep starship combat from going stale.

Rhedyn wrote:

Actual implants can't be reused.

Permanent implants that don't break just from day to day use like the loot implies would basically be part of your body. Reusing it is about the same a reusing organs. You wouldn't in the future when making fresh ones is an option and adventures or mercs on anti rejection meds sounds like too large of a fort save hit to me.

I can't imagine buying a brand new high level augmentation costing a million credits would be cheaper and easier than transplanting and adjusting a used one.

'Adjusting' it might not be easy, or possible. If the item has been fabricated using the subjects dna incoded right into the material (which it may be, to ensure a perfect graft)' how do you adjust that?

Say you've got a 3D printer, and you print a doodad out of blue plastic. Now you need one made out of green plastic. How do you adjust the blue plastic one? Wouldn't it be easier to just print a green one? Yes, you could paint it, but maybe that's not sufficient.

Obviously, that's a basic analogy. But if the personal fitting of the item is intrinsic in the manufacturing process, it's not hard to imagine it being non-adjustable.

Good news everyone.

For those not able to go to a Free RPG participating store, the First Contact pdf will be available on July 1st :D

Chris Lambertz wrote:

Updated to clarify the release date on paizo.com. :)

Productpage First Contact wrote:

Release: This special 16-page rulebook was created for Free RPG Day on June 17, 2017. The print edition will be available for sale and a free download will be available on paizo.com starting July 1, 2017.

Awesome! This will make my son very happy. Well, me too, of course :)

Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:

So, is there a way to find participating stores? My local game store won't have First Contact... :'(

Go here and enter your ZIP code to find participating retailers near you.

Drat, none of my locals are participating. Hopefully, Paizo won't wait too long before putting the pdf up. It would be nice to get a taste before August :)

Reef wrote:

It is a little annoying that Operatives will be rolling a skill check and an attack roll on pretty much every single round. I suspect for speed, I'll insist they roll two D20s at once so we can resolve it all at once.

It shouldn't be any slower than most ranged characters full attacking every round and thus making two attacks.

Hmm, fair point. I didn't consider that.

It is a little annoying that Operatives will be rolling a skill check and an attack roll on pretty much every single round. I suspect for speed, I'll insist they roll two D20s at once so we can resolve it all at once.

I was just worrying about that myself. I know characters are not necessarily balanced against themselves, but those defences and health totals seem awfully high based on the attacks listed. And this is just at 5th level.