Prince of Shades's page

Drow noble daring champ-psychic bloodline arcanist.

Yes you can wield in your off hands. As for grappling I would say it would take 2. As for 3. Not sure really.

I would say he was cursed and all his stats were reduced to less than 10, but he would have Fast healing 5. He also would have forgotten he knows how to use any weapon or armor. His initial awakening would be in a pacifistic temple where any conflict goes against the temple. He has no knowledge of how he came there and the monk/priests just say he showed up one day without any knowledge of who he was.

He has lived at the temple for a year, still without knowledge of who he is when the temple is attacked to find him. But he wants to honor the temple and runs away so as not to cause conflict.

So your suggestion was to basically make the character unplayable?

Interesting idea. I am not sure but I think it saying sorcerer is just because it's suppose to be a sorcerer bloodline.

Accept they fall perfectly into the definition. They are mortals with a strong connection to the Shadow plane. Really they are not much different then Fetchlings

Well the culture of humans are a small portion (A very large city) that was transported to the plane of shadows. they are still human just well been stranded on that plane for awhile.

Well remember Aasimar and Tieflings where declared full Outsiders in the old editions too. And Shades are Humans who have a piece of their soul removed and filled with shadow stuff. So they are humans with a template added to them. (Races of Faerun or Setting of Faerun has it in there).

Given their origin, and that they are still humans just with an outsider influence I could see just cause in calling them Native.

I think they would count as Outsider (Native) like Aasimar and that lot, who can be reincarnated.

I say this because Aasimar were Outsider in 3.5 but is given the new subtype in PF.

Well the character in question is a Shade from Faerun and the template is added via cutting out a piece of your soul and replacing it with Shadow Stuff to grant you remarkable abilities

Shade CR 2 even if its not on the listing.

I wanted to know if I reincarnated into another race if I would keep the template. I was thinking yes due to the shadow stuff being part of your very soul.

Cell phone loves auto correct. Must have hit s or something.

Thank you.
The idea is a character who had a piece of their soul removed and replaced by a bit of shadow stuff.

If a character had an affect that is said to effect their soul. Like a piece missing or whatever. Would your reincarnation still have that effect applied?.

This is true Not Lying is in the code, but it is said to act honorably which many difference races have different codes of honor. A race of Shapeshifters would not find it dishonorable to shapeshift. Though the god he worships may, but considering you can worship a Neutral Good god or the like it might work.

Ok so my GM has said we will be having a game at level 5, and we can use any Race that has a LA of 3 or less. In PF he said CR 3 or less. So I choose the Doppelganger race and want to play Cha based character.

Now I am stuck on either playing a Paladin or a Bard.
20 Pt Buy
Str 10 +8 [18]
Dex 15 +3 [18]
Con 13 +2 [15]
Int 12 +3 [15]
Wis 11 +4 [15]
Cha 15 +3 [18]

I would have 2 class levels.

What is best for the Doppelganger style shapechanging. I do like the Mind Reading, the ability to use any armor, weapon, spell trigger object is nice and allows for some fun play on either style of character.

Doppelgangers are typically N so LG is one step in both directions.

The race is the shades from fearun.
I was just curious as it says they are all nongood. They are also outsiders though would probably have the native subtype.

How can there be a race of Always anything? The citizens of this specific race are suppose to be loyal to their princes and high lord and to the city most of all. But if you are not good at all.. what is making them loyal to you? I mean sure we have Lawful Neutral but that does not inspire strong loyalty and belief in superiority.

Boring7, I believe he said this was gestalt, what a lot of gestalt does is take the LA/CR adjust on one side of his Gestalt and one class is left alone. So if he took his caster half on the non CR/LA side he would have a full caster levels.

Monk is solid as the passive side of a gestalt since you will either be casting or punching, and you really do want to always be casting.

In the Forgotten Realm Campaign Setting there is the Shade Template which doesn't have a LA adjustment but does have the CR +2 which seems to indicate this could be put on other races.

The race is assumed that you are human who got the template applied.

Me I would have loved to take the +2 Dodge bonus onto the Vanara
That would put their RP points up to 12.

Frankly like people mentioned fetchling and I'm quite sure, you will love them, they get improved concealment in the dark as well, making it very hard to hit them. Their SLA actually improves with levels, they even get shadow walk as a SLA,at level 9 and you won't have any weird attempt at convincing your DM, as you can make them fit anywhere easily. If you are playing a in forgotten realms setting, you can even link them to shadow magic, which i remember is a big deal in FR.

Fetchling sorcerer with the Umbral Bloodline is a nice way to come close to your concept.

They do seem very interesting, but I will admit they dont have the flavor and fluff to support them. Sure I could refluff the race but what I do love is the stories around the culture and race of Shadovars and their 2000 year mysterious disappearance into the Plane of Shadow and their seclusive and mysterious plots for the material plane.

Yeah I just dont want to gimp the HP meter just so when it gets dark I look really cool lol.

It seems a Ring of Penumbra at 1500 GP or a Ring of Protective Penumbra at 18000 GP should give him his racial abilities since even though it says slightly shadowed, it just says his powers kick on in shadows. But again Daylight and unless the DM puts us underground there is a danger to be depowered.

Thanks for the information.

Monster as PC

But that does no say they do not gain levels normally, it just cites the extra level gain.

M 4/Class level 1 (ECL 5) > M 3/Class Level 3 (ECL 6.5) > M 3/Class 4 (ECL 7) is how I read that.

So for the shade for example it would be CR 2/Class 1 at level three, at level 4 I am a CR 2/Class 2 and at 5th I gain CR 2/Class 3 and at some point between five and six I trade my CR for a Class level so it would be CR 1/Class 4 and at 6th I gain a normal class level so its CR 1/Class 5 at 6th level.

If that is what you are talking about I am sorry I got confused.

Yeah empty levels, that is mostly why I strongly suggest to propose at least 2 racial hd to your dm, if not, the cr route is not worth it at all.

Can you get me a link to where you saw this because again this is not what I had heard.

Because honestly this means at level 5 you really would be just CR 2/Class 1 and you don't gain a level period till level 6, and I guess you gain another level somewhere between level 5-6 so you would be a CR 2/Class 3 suddenly at level 6.

Which literally makes it hard then needed as you take FAR more of a penalty then just doing the CR +Class levels and not attempting to buy off the class. As according to the PF guidelines/suggestions its basically treat the CR as class levels which means going to a class is the same as multiclassing.

I wasn't aware that was how it worked.
As I was not aware you didn't level up between the 3 levels.
The way I read it was at level 3 I would have CR 2/Class 1 when I hit enough EXP to hit level 4 I would have CR 2/Class 2 and when I get to enough EXP to get to level five I would have CR 2/Class 3. When I hit level six it would be CR 1/Class 5 due to the buy off.

And so at level 6 wouldn't I just be behind the party in Class levels by 1? But my ECL would be the same as theirs the CR would be an empty level unless like you said I took a RHD.

at level 5 you would have 2 class levels total. As in, 2 Hit dice, that's it, as in you have 2 class levels of rogue, barbarian or whatever else, if your plan is to get rid of the CR as quickly as possible.

So it would be CR 2/Class 2/X1?

well if you go the CR route...it will be pretty penalizing:

Assuming you follow the CR system as presented in the bestiary:

Party start at level 3, you have 1 class level.

Next you will need to wait for the party to reach level 6, to get another class level, technically you will get the second class level half-way between level 5 and 6. But after the party reaches level 6, you will level normally.

Still tho, it is pretty rough 2 class levels from 3 to 6 will be very challenging.

Penalizing is not the issue, if I could work with it is what I am curious most about.

Rather than mess around with a very powerful race, broken ideas about LA and CR may I suggest using the ARG to design a race with the same flavor, after getting your GM's ok that they will fit into his setting and campaign.

There are a number of shadow related powers and you should be able to come up with something flavorful which is not vastly better than every other starting race

I have no problem starting levels behind the others, but I also don't want to gimp the character. Because a Wizard with a +4 LA means he never gets 9th level spells. Arcanist loses out on a level of 8th level spells and all of his 9th level spells.

So a lower CR wouldn't be horrible but it would allow me to get to play those levels much much later. Honestly, at 12+ do these abilities really seem that much more powerful then a common caster?

The problem with the CR thing is, well... that weakness doesn't really matter?

Adventurers spend a lot of time underground, in buildings, and the like. Those are places where the weakness is moot. There are honestly very few occasions where they have to be out during the day. And when they do... well. Your third question was literally "can I do this to bypass their weakness?"

Even Daylight is ultimately a non-issue. Putting aside that it's not a spell most adventurers have to deal with, the Shade comes with a built-in counter to it. If you even suspect a Daylight is coming, use their Control Light ability to drop the light around you. Daylight raises it one step, so as long as you dropped it one step initially it comes out to a wash. Or just run an archer or caster, and never get within 60' of a Daylight spell. It's a very easily mitigated weakness, which means using it as a balance point is a hard sell.

Dunno if you ever played any of the Elder Scrolls games, but what I'm reading is a lot like Vampirism in Oblivion. On paper, the issues going out in the sun and the fact that you have to manage it to stop people from avoiding you make it something you should at least consider getting rid of. In reality, the workarounds were so incredibly simple and the benefits so incredibly good that it was silly to get rid of.

The Penumbra spells probably should work, but it's a talk-to-your-GM question because by RAW they don't.

I have played Elder Scrolls and I do know what you are talking about.

And yes I am looking for a work around, but Dispel is a nasty effect.
10% per level means at level 10 its 100%, which I took as being dropping the light down a level, I never thought of the 100% being complete darkness, but even then if its casting darkness, then Daylight should counter it, if I do it first the spell is overrun by the spell effect.
But your idea is very interesting.
But at level 5 with 1 HD and likely going to play an Arcanist (They specifically call their wizards and sorcerers Arcanists) means I have a 1d6+Con vs every opponent with 5 HD + Con.

1. I'd stick with the level adjustment. One of the 3.5 books-- I think Savage Species-- had talk of a level buy-off system; if I'm remembering right that'd put it at +2 in the long run. But those abilities are exceptionally strong at low levels, and some of them remain exceptional clear through level 20.

2. 1+whatever their CR or LA winds up at.
3. By strict-RAW no, since the Shade doesn't have one of the three listed weaknesses that Protective Penumbra overcomes.
4. Six percentile dice. 6D100, basically.

Thank you for the input. I think LA Buyoff comes from Unearthed Arcana.

The reason I considered doing the CR routes is due to the serious drawback of if you are not in shadow or darkness you are weaker then a normal human as you lose everything including your ability adjustments.

I was curious about the penumbra spells saying you are cast into shadow, which would trigger his abilities to be active was the thought process.

So a few years ago I was playing in a Faerûn game, and because I joined the game late I got to pick a race that would not normally be allowed by level at level 1.

The Shade race

Now their LA is +4 but from my research their CR was a 2. Especially given how their abilities only work in shadows or darkness and lose all of their powers when exposed to bright light and especially Daylight.

So an Aasimar can wreck a Shade in a stand up fight.

Now I wanted to bring back if not this character one inspired by him and while I know Fetchlings are similar in origin they don't have the same flavor of their city and their beliefs and so forth. As well as yes a keen upgrade when moving at night.

Now I was curious of a few things.
1. Does CR 2 sound about right?
2. The character would start at level 3 correct?
3. Would a constant item of Penumbra or Protective Penumbra negate such a weakness (Unless Dispelled)
4. What does +6d% mean when it comes to a maximum age.