The Ultimate Mongrel Mage, otherwise known as "What the hell kind of magic do you even USE?!"


Advice


So my group has houseruled that VMC sorcerer gets the bloodline arcana since they get the Bloodline class feature, this is just reference for what comes next

White Mage Arcanist VMC Sorcerer (Psychic Bloodline) with false focus

So to recap he:

  • Prepares Spells from a book like a Wizard
  • Casts them spontaneously like a Sorcerer
  • Can cure wounds like a Cleric
  • Can ignore armor like a divine caster
  • Ignores Focus components completely
  • Uses Thought and Emotion components like a Psychic
  • Casts spells mostly from those available to a Wizard or Sorcerer

Alternatively i could do an Unlettered Blood Arcanist with VMC cleric instead for a slightly different brand of confusion

Thoughts?


I'm too lazy to look it up. What's your casting stat?


... don't you then have to split spell levels between classes, having basically twice as many low level slots but no high level slots? It's a dangerous game, trading that much power for a little extra versatility. And to my knowledge you still don't ignore armor failure when casting the wizard stuff, just when using a psychic or cleric spell. I don't know how all this interacts but it's bound to be somewhat of a mess.

If I had to say anything I suppose I'd ask why you aren't just playing an Incanter from Spheres of Power. They can use basically any kind of magic (it all scales by level very nicely too) and the rules would be much simpler. They don't have any kind of restrictions like armor or somatic or material unless you want them to. (Bonus spells per day and some buffs if you do)


Goddity wrote:
I'm too lazy to look it up. What's your casting stat?

I believe it's still intelligence.

Shiroi wrote:
... don't you then have to split spell levels between classes, having basically twice as many low level slots but no high level slots? It's a dangerous game, trading that much power for a little extra versatility. And to my knowledge you still don't ignore armor failure when casting the wizard stuff, just when using a psychic or cleric spell. I don't know how all this interacts but it's bound to be somewhat of a mess.

No, they just cast spells as an arcanist, but with spontaneous casting of cure spells from the White Mage archetype. Since the Psychic bloodline arcana is being houseruled to function with VMC sorcerer, all of your spells are psychic spells, so none of them have an arcane spell failure chance.


Quote:
Bloodline Arcana: Your sorcerer spells and spell-like abilities count as psychic instead of arcane.

Unlike most Arcana, That can be use with any spell. Psychic Bloodline Arcana specifically state that it only works with Sorcerer Spell. So it might not work on your Arcanist at all.


Cleru wrote:
Quote:
Bloodline Arcana: Your sorcerer spells and spell-like abilities count as psychic instead of arcane.

Unlike most Arcana, That can be use with any spell. Psychic Bloodline Arcana specifically state that it only works with Sorcerer Spell. So it might not work on your Arcanist at all.

you forgot the rest of that ability

Bloodline Arcana: wrote:
Your sorcerer spells and spell-like abilities count as psychic instead of arcane. You use thought and emotion components instead of verbal and somatic components when casting your spells.

the second, completely seperate sentence has no modifiers on it, meaning that even if you were using that somewhat restrictive ruling the effect would be very little different, i would just be casting arcane spells that use thought and emotion components


I'm not sure VMC Sorcerer even grants the bloodline arcana, just the bloodline powers.

Grand Lodge

Hazrond wrote:
the second, completely seperate sentence has no modifiers on it, meaning that even if you were using that somewhat restrictive ruling the effect would be very little different, i would just be casting arcane spells that use thought and emotion components

It doesn't work that way. You can't just ignore the first part and only use the second part. The second "separate" sentence is part of the entire description, not a standalone feature. As written, your arcanist spells would still be arcane and use verbal and somatic components. Arcane spells do not use thought and emotion components. This is exploitive use of wording.

This would be like ignoring the line on smite evil saying it's wasted against targets that aren't evil and then trying to claim that it bypasses DR of any creature that is smitten.


Hazrond wrote:

Bloodline Arcana: wrote:
Your sorcerer spells and spell-like abilities count as psychic instead of arcane. You use thought and emotion components instead of verbal and somatic components when casting your spells.
the second, completely seperate sentence has no modifiers on it, meaning that even if you were using that somewhat restrictive ruling the effect would be very little different, i would just be casting arcane spells that use thought and emotion components

That isn't how English works. Just because an idea is broken up into more than one sentence does not mean that the sentences are unrelated or that one doesn't use the other sentences in the paragraph or topic to understand context.

However, since you are heavily house ruling anyway, go ahead and have fun with your idea. I don't see any particular advantage (the opposite more frequently) to using emotion components so it probably isn't that big of a deal.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Aside from his house rule, I don't see how he's breaking any rules at all.

They are clearly two separate and distinct thoughts, each operating independently of another.


Interesting idea. I am not sure but I think it saying sorcerer is just because it's suppose to be a sorcerer bloodline.


Dave Justus wrote:
However, since you are heavily house ruling anyway, go ahead and have fun with your idea. I don't see any particular advantage (the opposite more frequently) to using emotion components so it probably isn't that big of a deal.

Its less about power and more of a silly build basically meant to incite extreme confusion in anybody who is trying to figure out what kind of magic user you are. (also, its great when you have weird combos like this to throw in the face of those guys who try to deduce your build from watching what you do :P)


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Reminds me of a Pathfinder novel I read:

Urban Druid: "What are you, a sorcerer or a wizard?"

Crazy Pyromancer: "Yes."


Ravingdork wrote:

Reminds me of a Pathfinder novel I read:

Urban Druid: "What are you, a sorcerer or a wizard?"

Crazy Pyromancer: "Yes."

Hey Ravingdork, i love your Character Emporium, anyway i could talk you into turning this into a character? (You can use Blood Arcanist to get the Psychic bloodline if VMC isnt a thing you want to use)


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'll consider it. (Since we're closing in on the holidays, it's really going to be an issue of whether or not I have the time.)

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