Pooh's page

I have a reoccurring villan in my campaign.

He is a high level necromancer who tried to sieze control of their home region (Eastern Isger) during the goblin invasion. He and his followers were driven off and are thought to be behind more recent goblin troubles (15 years later). The PCs are out trying to suppress the goblins but have in the back of their minds (reminded occasionally by me) that there is a necromancer out there.
The PCs have also seen an old man who has sent them into traps on at least 2 occasions. They want to get him real bad but don't seem to realize that he's the necromancer and is grooming them to become his minions.

Pooh

Your issue with damage is very common with rogues. Simply put, rogues aren't meant to be the party meat shield so will usually compare poorly with those that are. While you should build your fighting skills to the best you can, its your other characteristics where you'll shine; the sneak, lockpick, trapfinder, skill monkey, etc. When fighting, a rogue is often best used as a support fighter. Your high init means you usually go 1st so you can bet behind an enemy , block his movement and set up flank attacks for other party members (and yourself). Plus if you get spring attack, you can drive your enemies, and your GM, crazy bouncing in and out of combat.

Pooh

A bunch of us were talking about making magic rings of various kinds and I jokingly brought up the one ring to rule them all. This prompted a discussion on how to make such a ring.
It turns out none in our group are fimiliar enough with high level magic item creation to know.

So: can you make the Tolkien's one ring in Pathfinder and what would it take?

Pooh

I'm going to try playing an archeologist in my group's next campaign; starting in a month or so. My feeling is that the class doesn't have a lot going for it offensively but that's not his job. I'm playing the class to get the key rogue find/remove trap skills and to get the bard's knowledge skills. I've actually taken a higher ability score in intelligence than charisma for this reason. Charisma will get bumped up at 4th level.

As for offensive capability, I've put a trait and a feat into buffing my UMD score and at 1st level will have the 1st of a number of wands. (My other trait was Rich Parents.) So I'll the rogue's abilities with traps, be a know it all and have a wand for every occasion (eventually). I think this is going to be a fun character.

Pooh

If you want to be a cutpurse, look at the Cutpurse archetype from the Advanced Players Guide. It gives you the ability to know the result of your targets Perception check BEFORE you try to steal something, letting you potentially avoid getting caught. However, it does replace trapfinding, so if you're doing an actual dungeon crawl, there are bound to be traps, and it's generally the rogues job to deal with them.

Yes it is going to be a dungeon crawl and trap finding/removal is going to be one of my main duties. I saw the cutpurse archetype and decided against it for that reason. What I am looking to do is see if I can add an additional element to my character.

The most memorable rogue (an indeed any character) that have ever played was a rogue who did a number of unusual things.

He found a wand of humor which he never figured out how to use but went and used it anyway. It cast random spells (1D4 + 1D20, 1 of 4 spells list with 20 spells each). The results were not only unpredicable but hilarious. The group eventually took the wand away from him and threw it into the ocean. But they still talk about it years later. Another thing he did was start making private deals with the thieves guild which lead the party into some very interesting situations.
He finally retired, using his wealth to build a small town at a local ferry crossing where he became the patron.

Pooh

My group is going to start a new campaign in August that will be a classic dungeon D&D dungeon crawl. I'm told it is any old Gary Gygax adventure series updated for pathfinder.

My character is going to be a human rogue. I have run rogues before so pretty much how to set on up for finding/disabling traps, sneaking around etc. On of the things I want to do that I have never done before with my rogues is have him be a cutpurse. I've seen the trait that gives you a +1 for sleight of hand but am wondering what other things I can do to make him successful at this.
Note: I don't plan to go around robbing everyone I see or other party members, but if I see someone who offends my sensabilities, he's fair game.

In particular, what tools are available in the game. I think in 3.5 there was a cutpurse blade that was concealable in your hand. We will be using the standard Pathfinder books only I think.

In a related question, how worthwhile is the improved dirty trick feat. My inclination is to go the dodge feat progression route but I'd like this rogue to be a little different.

Pooh

I havent seen anyone say rogue...

I did! See post 51 or so.

Pooh

I was in a similiar situation. First time DMing with a party of 6. I tried throwing hordes at them, they slaughtered them. I tried throwing villans too big for them and they just killed them. They were having a great time but i felt I wasn't challenging them enough. (note: later they told me they felt plenty challenged, I just didn't see it)

Finally, I came across was way to make them sweat a bit. Lots of little encounters. The bad guys (in this case mostly goblins) have learned they can't stand up to all this firepower so they harrass, harrass then harrass some more. By the end of the night the PCs and the players are tired and know they've worked for everything they got. The magic users are out of spells, the cleric out of channeling, the fighters are down hp. Great fun is had by all. (Also note: a couple of other threads have noted they don't like to kill the PCs, having little encounters allows you to scale your combats and wear them down while avoiding party fatalities.

Another thing is don't just use generic monsters, use the the templates and make a few "special". That helps unsettle the party a bit.

One more thing, I'm still trying to learn is how to run several "bad guy" magic users at once. The party has more than 1 magic user, why not the bad guys. I can run 1 just fine but 2 or 3 is tough for me.

Pooh

I like the rogue. He gets to do all sorts of interesting stuff, often without the real ability to pull it off. He's the sneak, risk taker, lock pick. With his skills, he's often the go to guy to know or find answers.
My current rogue is sort of a swashbuckler type who runs into combats, often dragging the rest of the party with him. In the last adventure he did charge and kill a ghoul outright when he got a crit with his sneak attack. He could just as easily missed and forced the cavalier to come in and do the job (again).

My 2nd favorite is a sorcerrer with an elemental bloodline.

Pooh

In addition to the above ideas, you might have it so that the kobolds have captured the keep to defend themselves against something worse. The PCs at some point become aware the this other thing (or group) then must decide what kind of deals, if any, they need to make to survive.

Pooh

We have few named weapons in the campaigns I am currently involved in. Those that do exist are truely legendary and often do scale with the character.

To avoid the disposable magic item syndrome, we allow people to take existing magic weapons to the proper weaponsmith and have them upgraded. The cost is that of the new weapon minus the cost of any existing magical enhancements.

The only named item in the campaign I run is a cursed gem known as "The black diamond of doom". It is made from any gem worth more than 5,000 gp and has the property that any random ill event that happends to the party with happen to the bearer of the gem 1st. For example; the party walks into an ambush and the hidden archer will target the gem bearer unless he has a specific reason to shoot someone else. It has the added property that everytime the bearer tries unsuccessfully to dispose of the gem, the DC to get rid of it goes up by 1.
It hasn't gotten the rogue killed yet but makes her very skittish when going into an unknown situation.

Pooh

If you cannot see or touch the enemy, you cannot target him.

This is strenghtened by the fact that, according to Selective Channel, you need to choose the targets to be excluded "in the area" of the Channel. If your invisible enemy is not within the area anymore (which you cannot know unless you see or touch him) you definitely cannot choose him as a target.

Does this mean if your fighter knocks down an enemy and the enemy falls out of sight (such as behind a wall or around a corner), when the cleric channels that enemy will automatically gain the benefit and cannot be excluded?

Pooh

I'm both running and playing in pathfinder campaigns.
As a GM, I also have a tendancy to run large encounters. By using a laptop with an spreadsheet, these go smoothly and I prefer using individual initiative every round in the hopes that my monsters occasionally get to go before some of the high init characters.

As a player, I think individual initiative per round makes the combat much more exiting. I view it as one of the strengths of the combat system. I am also one of those characters who spends a lot of effort getting a high init. If I got to go 1st every time, it would take a lot of the chance out of combat. If I rolled badly and had to go near the last every round, I'd hate it.

Pooh

I have 2. One is a classic for our group, the 2nd is destined to be.

Several years ago we had a new player join our group as we were early in a new campaign, I think we were all still 1st level. She decided she was going to be a gnome monk (don't ask me why). As the party was ready to depart, she got perched atop one of the pack horses. 5 minutes down the road the party is suprised by some minor nuisance that spooks the horses. She has to roll to see if her horse spooks, she rolls a 1. She rolls handle animal to control it, she rolls a 1. She rolls ride to see if she stays on, she rolls 1. She rolls a reflex save to land without hurting herself, she rolls a 1. The DM rolls to see if she takes damage, he rolls 20 then backs the critical. She rolls up a new character.
We figured the gods were trying to tell us something at that point.

We have just started a new campaign, The Serpent's Skull. While most of the party is asleep we are attacked by monkeys. The party gets up to try and repell the viscious little guys and our 1st level wizard throws sleep on several that are attacking the cleric. One of the monkeys fails his save and falls into the campfire, wakes up on fire and crazed. He jumps on the nearest thing around him, the cleric, and wraps himself around the cleric's head, setting the cleric on fire. After a couple unsuccessful attempts to remove the monkey, our cavalier comes over and removes the monkey with a mighty blow from his glaive (somehow managing to avoid removing the cleric's head in the process). The cleric still can't put out the fire on his head despite the assistance of an NPC who is beating him on the head with a burlap bag. Finally, several other characters bury his head in the sand, putting out the fire. Only then do a couple magic users remember, "create water". Our group is now officially, The Order of the Flaming Monkey", we have a banner and everything.

Pooh

Many have suggested somehow limiting his combat abilities, I toally disagree. Combat is where he should shine. The only caveat to that is that a low intelligence PC might have some trouble adjusting to a new kind of creature that he's never seen before. But once he figures out how to hurt it, he's good to go.
There's also no reason why he can't have strong moral beliefs. He may tend to be dogmatic and be an unquestioning folower of his diety but his believes as a paladin are deeply held and sincere. He might have a tendency toward putting belief above practicality and refuse options because they are not the most right thing to do, like retreating before a superior enemy.

Where a low int. character with have trouble includes:
New social situations - If he's not used to upper crust society and the duke invites the party, he will be a Mr. Fishy out of water and not know how to behave. For example: if he were a barbarian, he'd just get drunk and start a brawl cause that's what he always does.

Solving puzzles or mysteries - As has been pointed out, he's a man of action, not thinking. He doesn't like to plan or figure out complex situations, he likes to do things now.

He might might not be able to read & write or know math above 1, 2, many although as a paladin he's likely do both just not well.

There's no reason he can't be a terrific fighter and tacticion though strategy is likely not his strong suit.

Pooh

Remember you are part of a team. So become very good friends with the party cleric and make sure he/she knows that you're feeling vulnerable save wise. Then the 1st thing on the cleric's mind going into a fight is buff the rogue.
Then you can concentrate on more rogish things.

Pooh

I agree your logic almost completely. The only bone of contention I have is that I think the attack roll was correct. The gargoyle WAS being used as a missile weapon. Therefore, it is an attack and ends invisibility.
So, for me, the only question to be answered is, is dropping or pushing an object off a ledge a ranged attack. If the answer is yes, invisibility is gone, if no the imp remains invisible.
As stated above, I think the answer is yes it is a ranged attack. shoving an object off the ledge is IMHO no different that dropping, throwing or shooting an object. If someone can point to a rule to the contrary, I'll stand corrected.

Pooh
BTW: If the answer is no, you're not launching the gargoyle at a target (i.e. a ranged attack) then there ought to be some sort of dispersal roll to see where it hit. That is: if not a ranged attack, you're not aiming it, so you're not sure where it will land.

I agree with this (more than I agree with your original post).

I think the whole gist of this argument is not intent. A spell like invisibility doesn't differentiate between intent any more than a sword does, IMHO. The major point of contention seems to be what actions break the invisibility effect, and I have to say that the intention behind that action is irrelevant.

For example, invisibility is a conjurer's and summoner's butter spell, because regardless of why he is summoning the monster (to attack someone or to help him swim across a raging river) he still stays invisible after he casts the spell.

Same with the example of cutting the rope on the bridge. Whether you're cutting it to cut off a route of pursuit (before those pursuing have started to cross) or you're cutting it to drop your pursuers to a crunchy death many feet below (when they've gone half-way across the bridge), you will still stay invisible.

In RD's examples, I would have had the players in question roll a Perception check with a pretty high DC to even notice that the gargoyle was not acting like a gargoyle, and pretty high meaning probably in the 30's or higher unless they had a reason to expect a threat from above. Anyone in the area of effect below the fall of the gargoyle who was able to notice something amiss would either have a bonus to their save or a miss chance, and then anyone that the gargoyle fell on would have to roll a Reflex save for 1/2 damage. Imp stays invisible, becauses no matter why he is pushing the gargoyle,...

Foghammer wrote:

My question is: do you really make an attack roll for pushing something off a shelf?

If I were trying to time it just right to hit someone, yes. In that case, there's a certain amount of accuracy involved on the pusher's side.

I would view pushing the gargoyle off the ledge as an attack with an improvised weapon. I would require an attack roll when it arrived and rule that it ends invisibility. A moot point as pointed out a couple of posts ago. There isn't an attack role being made by the imp against the gargoyle (possibly a strength check) only against the target below. To make this work, IMHO, the imp would have to attack the gargoyle and break it so it falls and possibly hits those below. In this way, the attack is against the gargoyle and it falls due to damage inflicted on it.

In the case of the bridge, you have to attack and damage the bridge to make it collapse. The rope might be easy to cut but I'd still require an attack against it. You could always roll a 1. The effects on any occupants of the bridge has that degree of indirectness required to maintain the spell.

Pooh

...or simply have the party wander across a 'recently ambushed caravan' and have the zombies lying in wait as the apparent 'victims'.

That's a good idea except that I've done something similar before (when they we 1st level and investigating a river barge).

I love a good ambush.

To allay their fears, they will see only one figure apparently the worse for wear, leading a cart pulled by a pathetically skinny horse (but live). The rest of the zombies (only 5 or 6) are hidden in the cart. The cleric who is controlling them is in the woods the party is passing by. If necessary, I can throw in skeletons lying in the grass waiting for the cleric to call them. So the cleric calls in the zombies, the fighters rush up to dispatch them. While they are briefly engaged killing zombies, the antipaladin strikes. If the fighters kill the zombies too quickly, a half dozen or so skeletons jump up to occupy them. The antipaladin continues to attack the magic users while the necromancer snipes from the woods. If things go badly for the bad guys (and I expect them to eventually), they regroup and the necromancer casts invisibility sphere to cover their escape.

The antipaladins attack will, as I understand it be: target 1 cleric, power attack, cleave, smite good (and he has a +1 unholy greatsword) doing 2D6 +4 sword, 2D6 unholy, 6 smite good to the cleric. then target 2 just 2D6+4 to the warmage whose alignment is neutral. I'll hold off my attack until both the magic users have gone so they don't get to just turn around and hit me back. The antipaladin has a pretty good initiative so he'll likely go before the cleric next turn but not the warmage (who has a +8 init or something).

Pooh

If the party doesn't specifically state counter ambush strategies (scouts off the road in the advance etc) then in my book they are FAIR GAME :)

Before we start, I have to ask: Does the anti-paladin know who the PCs are, and that they'll be using this road? I'm just trying to get a feel for the scenario. The trouble with setting up ambushes is that the ambushers need to know the location/movements (and preferably the makeup of the party) of the ambushees. I'm assuming this is the case, though.

The PCs have been making a name for themselves as part of a campaign by local authorities to smash banditry and goblin raids that have been plagueing the border between Isger & Druma. They just saved a town from a large goblin raid the previous day and are on their way to destroy the goblin king. So, yes the bad guys know who they are and where they're headed.
The ambush is a delaying action on the part of 3 bad guys; the antipaladin, a necromancer and an evil cleric. The evil cleric throws some zombies at the party while the antipaladin, on foot, sneaks up from behind under a vanish spell (APG).

The whole idea is to get at the 2 magic users who have been doing the most damage. The cleric by keeping all the PCs on their feet with incessant channeling and the warmage, who has been burning and blowing up everything in sight. If the PCs can be set back a couple of days,hopefully with the 3 key bad guys living to tell about it, the goblin king can get some re-enforcements.

BTW: The 3 evil guys are about the same level as the 6 PCs and are only intermediate level bad guys. The big bad guy is a high level necromancer who is looking for powerful underlings. He is grooming the party for this though they are not aware of it.

Pooh

I'm GMing a pathfinder game with 6 PCs. I'm only occasionally giving them enough a fight to seriously challenge them so I'm planning an ambush to try and give them a test. The party is 5th level.

The party will be traveling down a road with refugees going the other way. The refugees will thin out until there is only 1 wagon of them, a pathetic looking group comming toward them. When the refugees get close, they will be revealed a a bunch of zombies which will attack the party.

The party, if it follows its normal course, will deploy fighters to the from and magic users to the rear. Its the magic users I'm after. Once the fight is joined, an antipaladin with vanish cast on him will come out of the woods and attack the magic users from the rear.

Questions:
1. The antipaladin has aura of evil, will the cleric (NG) have a chance to detect him coming because of it.
2. If undetected, are the 2 magic users (cleric and warmage) flat footed. I'm assuming there is no surprise round as the battle has been joined and the antipaladin does not have sneak attack and I'm also assuming there is no flanking. The 2 being attacked have no special feats such as uncanny dodge or evade.
3. The antipaladin has power attack, cleave, smite good, touch of corruption and cruelties. If he is planning to use cleave, how many of these can he use in a single attack round. Smite would be against the cleric who will be the initial target.

Pooh

I'm running a campaign and for many of my monsters, I build them as NPCs. Most of the monsters the party (just turned 5th level) run into are goblinoids or evil humans. One character I'm planning to introduce to the party is an anti-paladin. I'm hoping he will survive long enough to become a re-occuring villan.
I'm finding that the character generators out there are rather hit or miss on being able to build evil NPCs on. In particular, that anti-paladin which is straight out of the APG.

I tend to like the excel based character generators. Any suggestions?

BTW: the Anti paladin
Black Bart 6th level human
Str=16
Dex=11
Con=14
Int=10
Wis=14
Cha=17

Init=6 perception=5
HP=58
Attack
+10/+5 +1 unholy greatsword 2D6+4 (2D6 vs good)
+6/+1 Javelin 1D6
Def
Fort=9, Refl=4, Will=9
AC 21 Tough=11 Flat footed=21

CMB=9 CMD=19

Gear
+1 unholy greatsword
Javelins x3
+1 Agile half plate
Buckler
Broach of shielding,
+1 ring of protection

Traits
Reactionary, Poverty Stricken

Feats
Power, attack, Cleave, Improved init, Toughness

Special
Aura of Fear, Detect Good (at will), Smite Good (2x day), Touch of Corruption (2D6 6x day), Aura of Cowardess, Plague Bringer, Cruelties (Sickend DC16 & Diseased DC18, Channel Negative Energy as 3rd level,

Spells
Protection from good, cause fear

Pooh

So here's our main disagreements..I'd like to have some opinions:

1) Will all lawful good paladins have a problem with slavery, even if it's legal?

Look at the paladin's background. If he's Andoran or from a place where slavery isn't tolerated then I believe he's right. If he's from a place where slavery is common, you have a point. Also look at his diety. If he is a law and order type that believes in social hierarchies you have a point. If his diety doesn't like slavery, then he's right.

2) Is raiding a slave trader in a place where slavery is legal against a paladin's alignment? It's against the law to raid a slave trader...doesn't a paladin have to obey the law?

IMHO, a paladin is an exemplar of an ideal. If it is established that he is opposed to slavery, then, I think, he's obliged to go after the slavers.

3) The party is escorting a slave trader (unarmed, old, no way to defend himself) back to Katapesh. If the party is attacked and the paladin stands by and let them kill the slave trader with no move to stop it when he could stop it, is that an evil act?

A paladin's word is his bond. If he agreed to protect the slaver, then he's obligated to do it.

4) Is there anyway to make this player happy without having to go...

Give him something more evil to fight.

Pooh

Bellona wrote:

Second question: do these M component diamonds (5,000 gp, 10,000 gp, and 25,000 gp) have to be single diamonds worth the listed amount, or can a cleric simply amass (for a single casting of such a spell) a number of diamonds, the total value of which equals the required amount (like in 3.5)?

Single diamonds.

"diamond worth x,xxx gp", not "diamonds worth x,xxx gp"

I believe the plural was removed intentionally rather than accidentally, but I could be wrong.

Wow! I hadn't looked at those spells as no one in our game is high enough level yet. In 3.5, it used to be that value worth of diamond dust, changing it to a single diamond of that value raises the difficulty of acquiring the material component significantly.

Pooh

My players have been pretty much plowing through whatever monsters I put in their way so I'd like to throw a change up in their path with an encounter that involves little or no combat.

The party is currently in the wilds of the 5 Kings Mountains and will find a path that is only visible in the right moonlight. If they follow the path it will lead to the very old ruins of what was once a grand manor house in the middle of the forest.

A detect magic will reveal the whole house is infused with residual magic. The obvious way into the house is through the still intact front door. When the door closes, the ruins vanish and instead the PCs are in the manor at the height of its glory and an elaborate ball is in progress.

If they try to leave, they will see a very changed landscape. Instead of wild forest they will see farms and orchards in the moonlight. The guests will try strenously to prevent them from leaving.

They will be welcomed as additional guests and offered food and drink and can engage the others in conversation and dance with them.

The challenge will be to figure out what's going on and how to get back to where they started.

In fact those in the house are from the distance past. an unspeakable horror was engulfing their community and there was no way for them to stop it. A powerfull enchanter who could not bear to see his friends and neighbors suffer the horrible torment that awaited them, invited them all to a last ball then performed a spell that removed them from the material plane to a place where they will enjoy this ball forever.

I've a number of ideas but could use some help putting this together.

Pooh

Yeah, the warmage can't cast spells from scrolls if those spells aren't on his list without using UMD. Sadly.

Thanks,

The scroll actually was bear's endurance so your example was apt. That was the ruling I made at the time but the gods are fickle and given reason I would have been willing to change it.

Pooh

I'm running a Pathfinder campaign and have let a couple of players bring 3.5 classes into the campaign with as close to a straight conversion as possible.

The party recovered a scroll that had arcane spells on it and the warmage wanted to use it even though it had spells not on the warmage list. Our cleric, whose hobby is reading rule seets under he knows them by heart, says that the warmage can not use the scroll without a use magic device check. He states that anyone who has taken skills in use magic device could try (including him as he's taken a number of points in that skill). Our warmage is arguing that he is an arcane spellcaster so ought to be able cast off a scroll.

any oppinions on this?

Pooh

Hi all! I DM a weekly PFRPG and this past week, an issue came up that our group wasn't too sure about. The wizard in the party casted a fireball spell to ignite a group of enemies. The party got the monsters cornered up on a ledge and the wizard flew up and used his fireball. To make sure he got every enemey in his area of effect, he actually was in the radius of his own fireball blast. He asked if he was immune to it, as it was his spell? I honestly blanked out on the answer. I ruled on the fly that though he created the fire/fireball, once it was cast, it ignited like a normal blast. He didn't have any magical fire protection, but MR 20, so I treated him like his fellow enemies and had him roll his saving throw against his own DC. He made the save. After the 20 resistance and only taking half damage, he hardly was damaged. He was cool with it and admitted he cast the spell too quickly and didn't realize he had put himself in harms way. I know that you can voluntarily lower or bypass your magical resistance, and can refuse a saving throw for a spell. But just out of curiosity, is a wizard (or any other spell caster for that matter), immune to their own magic?

I think you ruled correctly. Unless the spell description specifically excludes the caster from the area of effect, he gets nailed along with everyone else.

Pooh

I am a 5th Level Illusionist (spec wiz) and a 5th cleric. My opposed schools are Conjuration and Enchantment. Do I need to use two spell slots to prepare a Cure light wounds spell? It is a conjuration spell and there from from an opposed school. Nothing about the cleric class states that I can ignore this class restriction from my wizard class....

No, because you're not casting an arcane spell.

If you were casting a spell common to both lists and using an arcane spell slot to do it, I think the answer would be yes.

Again, there are different skills required to cast different kinds of spells. Casting divine spells is different than casting arcane spells so the implication is that the same spell not cast the same way as a divine spell as it is as an arcane spell.

Pooh

I'm a 1st time GM and nothing like this has come up in my campaign yet. I tend to make rulings on things that are unclear based on what makes logical sense to me (and what I convince my players is logical).

It seems to me that the justification for having opposition schools is that each school of magic takes its own talents and disciplines to master. Mastering some schools makes mastering others harder because those abilities are in conflict with each other. A real world comparison would be athletes. The things which go into making a person a good football lineman are different from those that make a good gymnist.

So in my game (baring a ruling from Paizo) I would likely not allow taking a preferred spell from an opposition school despite it not being prohibited by the feat. If I did, it would certainly take 2 spell slots as it comes from a school that is not the focus of your training and requires disciplines that run counter to those you're best at.

Pooh

I've always wanted an excuse to throw Catydids into a dungeon. They would be a good fit.
Also, the Egyptians were real big on curses and magical charms. Have many of your traps be magical in nature. At least they will keep the cleric busy doing remove curse and break enchantment. Many of your monsters could be wearing amulets that give them additional protection.

Pooh

Is there anyway to make this at all effective?

I was thinking of making a rogue who specialized in throwing daggers (custom weapon, using the exact same stats as darts), however after throwing his first dagger, he really doesn't get sneak attack after he's been noticed...

Are there any feats to make this more viable? Apparently "Gang up" doesn't work with ranged weapons (BOO! lol) or am I stuck with my first shot = great success, and every other shot after (Unless I make a next to impossible stealth check at lower levels for sniping) useless?

Thanks guys!

I think that many of the ranged attack feats will work, Precise shot, far shot and many shot would be 3 that i look at. Weapon focus & weapon finesse are also good. Also later the improved critical feat will help.

Other than that, feats to improve flanking bonuses or working on the Dodge feat path so you can get in and out quick.

As far as sneak attack goes, look for ways to deny your opponent his dexterity bonus. such as the surprise attack rogue talent.

I'm just figuring out many of these things too and it seems there are a lot of hidden opportunities if you look hard enough.

Pooh

The set of rules I was refering to is "Warpath" by Adamant Entertainment. I picked them up at my local game store.
It is a 64 page soft bound set of rules.
Its table of contents has the following chapters:
Battle of Scarlet Dawn (Description of a mythical battle)
Introduction
Design the unit
Battlefield manouvers
Spells & spell like abilities
Leaders & command
Post Battle
Quick mass combat
Siege warfare
Point buy battles
<illaenus the marsh-lord (a warpath scenario)
Running the game
Open game license

So you see it covers most or all of the bases.

I haven't had the oportunity to play a game yet but it looks pretty good from a read through.

Pooh

My experience as a DM so far is that parties can usually walk over an equal CR enemy, especially if the monsters don't have a spellcaster or two. I believe this is designed into the game so that the PCs can have a number of encounters before they have to stop and recharge.

Having said that, if this is your big encounter and the party isn't going to be immediately running into something else, go for it. One thing I do is if the encounter starts to get out of hand and it looks like the party will be overwhelmed, I pull my punches a bit. Extra monsters that should be arriving are late or don't show at all, that sort of thing.

The idea is for the players to have fun and be challenged, not be slaughtered like dogs after all.

I'm going to be doing a similar thing in my next game in which the party has to loot a minotaur lair in a few hours. I've staged all the encounters in their own areas so the PCs shouldn't have to fight an overwhelming force at any one time and there will be escape routes if they get to a point where they've had enough.

Pooh

There's a 3rd party set of mass combat rules for pathfinder that I picked up a few weeks ago that looks pretty good. Unfortunately its at a friends at the moment so I can't give you its name right now. I'm playing pathfinder there tomorrow (Sunday) so I'll try to remember to pick it up and so give the information then.

It treats a unit as a block of NPCs with identical stats so you use the same attack/armor/saves etc. that you would for 1 character. The friend who has it says it has a bunch of the features that he liked about a D&D set of mass rules from years ago.

Anyway, I seems easy to build units and fast and straight forward to use in a game setting. Your PCs would fill the role of leaders and would still fight as individuals.

Pooh

My intent is that she have a very small role and not be getting an NPC share of the treasure other than small gifts members of the party might want to give her. Having her be able to do simple augeries is an idea worth considering but she won't be a major resource.
The players who I game always look for bags of holding, now they'll get one but with strings attached.

I think I'll take your advise and leave what she is undefined (for now). the PCs are really to low level to figure it out on their own and are under a time crunch because of other events.

She will be something to add some flavor to the adventure and a possible plot hook for later on.

Pooh

Well, I'll give this one a try -

You could have the little girl manifest and provide a limited knowledge check/auger for the possessor of the bag if:

1) He provides her with a new toy, it could be one that the possessor purchased (maybe need to check to see if she would like it) or something the spirit actually wanted. Cost may be an issue, but difficulty in finding a specific requested item can curtail the abuse or overuse of this ability.

** Good idea, At present the little girl will have limited knowledge. One thing she will know is the cursed item in another room because it is like the one her father had and is also the topic of local folk tales her mother told her.

2) Takes her (and the bag) to a requested area - this could be a hilltop at midnight near some haunted ruins or some other semi-dangerous area, etc.

** At present the plan is that she's lonely and wants someone to take care of her. So she'll want the PC to read her bed time strories, get her toys out of the bag, things like that.

It could be as simple as the PC giving up something which is hard to acquire or is tasked and may get a knowledge check or insight (which should be filtered through the eyes of a little girl who has passed on) in exchange.
So while her knowledge may be limited she may some insights from the other side (prophecy) or info about areas not normally traversed by the living. Again, the info should be riddled and she should not be used to see what is on the other side of the dungeon door, or something overly immediate. Shouldn't be a functioning NPC

Would be a good way to drop one clue if the party hits a wall, or again she could always serve as a distraction if she is brought forth - maybe convinces the group to go to X location just because she wants to see a waterfall - you get the idea. She could also become hostile (attack) if items are tossed out of her bag.

I have a question here - wouldn't a good PC try to find a way to put her spirit to rest/pull her out of the 4th dimension, even if it meant possibly nullifying the powers of the bag?

*** The plan is that the PCs won't know exactly what she is. She'll seem like a ghost though turn undead won't work on her. The party is only 3rd level at present so there is little they could do in any case right now. She is an obvious plot hook for a rescue later.

Edit: The actual ability can scale a little with the party's level - maybe at low-level augury or simple answers and progress in more detail as the characters progress in power.

*** Another very good idea. At first, here only powers will be some local knowledge and she'll like to serve tea and those that drink it recover 1 hp once per day. (so far)

I cannot stress the price/pay limitations in the use of something like this. This can easily be redlined by a desperate party looking for some quick answers. She should not always be...

** She won't have many answers, at least at 1st so I'm not terribly worried about that.

Pooh

I'm setting up a plot device for my adventure party. They will discover a bag of holding that looks like a little girl's play bag. Pastel colors, lacy frills and even a pink pony stiched in the side. In fact it will have a number of her things in it. Combs and braiding things, play clothing a rocking horse etc. When a PC takes possesion of it the little girl will appear. The PC can use it for anything he/she wants as long he/she doesn't remove any of her stuff. She will adopt that person as an aunt/uncle as long as the PC is in possession of the bag.
The little girl will be incorporeal, will appear and disappear from time to time and will mostly annoy the uncle with typical little kid questions and demands but will occasionally know things because she is from the area in the past and the PCs aren't.

Her history is that her father became obsessed with material wealth, especially after finding a cursed item (which the PCs may also find)and dragged his family into the dungeon. Her mother hid her in the bag of holding and disappeared (was killed mostly likely). I'd rather the little girl wasn't actually dead but had been transported to another plane.

What's the best mechanism for handling this? If there isn't one, I'm going to make one up and any thoughts the more knowledgable folks on this site are very welcome.

Pooh

But keep names short and easy to pronounce!

Short and easy to pronounce! What fun is that! Some of my most memorable NPCs have had tongue twister names (part of the reason they're memorable). For example: in my current campaign there is a female gnome bard who is a reoccuring NPC by the name of Popileanthurhattie. After a little practice I can pronounce the name, (it sort of rolls off the tongue) but none of the PCs can yet. They remember her though.

Pooh

roguerouge wrote:

Cure spells are indeed a waste of an action.

Not always true, and depends on the situation at hand.

I recall one table I played at where the cleric dropped a flamestrike rather than heal either of two VERY heavy hitters. The cleric did less than a hit's worth of damage spread over 3 foes, while the fighter-types needed the healing for the waves of enemies that were eroding their health. In that situation even a cure light wounds spell would have been a more effective action than that.

-James

I'm encountering that in the campaign I'm running. The party has just gotten to 3rd level and at least 1 of the fighters is suggesting to the cleric what the good healing feats are. The cleric is rebelling as he doesn't want to be just a healer.

I will concede that my dungeons often have some extra long combats like last game in which the party had an extended encounter in a narrow twisting maze of tunnels. They eventually wiped out an entire tribe of goblins but were completely exhausted at the end.

In the end, I suggested to the cleric to develop his character to suit his interests as all the other PCs have been developed that way. Things will work out in the end (or not).

Pooh

In addition to all the excellent advise already given.

I try to have a few generic short threads of adventures off to the side. When your party goes outside your planned course (as PCs in my dungeon deftly do continually) you won't have to wing it entirely.
These can include things like a random monster encounter or some new NPCs showing up for cameo encounter roleplaying (ones that appear then never need appear again).
Also, don't be afraid to alter the geography, timeline or other environment so they end up where you want them no matter what they do.

As for NPCs, Any that are going to be significant, I role up a character for so when I need them, they're there.
Also remember, spreadsheets are your friend, a very good friend. When I use a spreadsheet, often it is just a reference to the book and page where the monster or NPC is located at. Other times, such as for a fight, its just their combat stats.

Pooh

ProfPotts wrote:

Hey, I love that idea wynterknight - may have to steal that one for one of my games at some point! :)

Even if the main bad guy's a Wizard necromancer, if you go with the 'he's recruited one of his grandkids' idea then the younger generation bad guy has a great excuse (grandpappy's messing with things that weren't meant to be) to have grown up into an undead-bloodline sorcerer like wynterknight suggests.

I hadn't thought of him having a family. A grandson sorcerer. hmmm...

There are a lot of possibilities with that....

Yes, I think I'll have to put some thought into that one. Maybe jr. doesn't like being under his overbearing grandfather. Or maybe he's too eager to please him.

Another minion for the dark side.

Pooh

Hey, I love that idea wynterknight - may have to steal that one for one of my games at some point! :)

Even if the main bad guy's a Wizard necromancer, if you go with the 'he's recruited one of his grandkids' idea then the younger generation bad guy has a great excuse (grandpappy's messing with things that weren't meant to be) to have grown up into an undead-bloodline sorcerer like wynterknight suggests.

The history of the necromancer is that 10 years ago he was the dean of the school of necromancy at the college of wizardry.(a sort of community college level wizarding school, no high level research just turns out practical wizards). Then the goblinblood wars spread across Isger. If in eastern Isger, where this all starts, they are taken by surprise and most of the local aristocracy is lost in the 1st battle when the district capital is sacked and burned. The governor survives and is more interested in keep hold on his power than stopping the goblins. The necromancer tries to "save" the situation by turning all the remaining leadership into his minions. He succeeds with with the governor and his family but is discovered and driven out. The locals (not nobles) then organize a defense until the armies from Druma & Andoran arrive and defeat the goblins.

The bitter necromancer and his surviving followers flee into the mountains and vow revenge.

BTW: there is no longer a school of necromancy at the wizard college. Instead there is the academy of warmages. This in graditude to a Taldan warmage whose stand halted an entire hoard of goblins during the attack on the last human bastion in the area.

Pooh

Razal-Thule wrote:

Another think you can consider if you have a Cleric or Wizard who you think might be interested and you'll be throwing alot or enough undead at them. Offer them the option to become Undead Hunters or something of the like. After all not all Necromancers are evil.

Sorry i meant Undead Slayers. But no reason you couldn't have Undead Hunters as well.

Thanks guys, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Looks like he'll be 11th level. He does have some magical help in the form of lower level necromancers. Several of these have already perished in the campaign. What he thinks he needs is more mid level minions. He'll have a few and a skeletal champion fits neatly into the campaign.

His lair is an old underground city that has recently (in the last 20 years or so) become exposed to the surface. It will have a few things of its own going on. Although its in the 5 Kings Mountains, it won't be dwarven.

Pooh

Here are a couple of cool ones.

The ist is from an online comic. Its a goblin that gets captured by a party and kept as a servant and then becomes a paladin.

The 2nd is a character who'se in our current dungeon. He's a halfling that wants to become a dread pirate. He's a swashbuckler in the campaign but using rouge, fighter or ranger classes you could probably make an equivalent. He carries around a MW rapier and does all the phrases from the old Errol Flynn pirate movies. Also, in the campaign halflings don't have facial hair so he has a fake mustache that he twirls for effect.

Pooh

Initially he will be just someone in the background. Even after that he will seem to be just a local farmer. The party will catch on pretty quickly that he's something else.
As for Detect Evil, there are several reasons I'm not terribly worried.
1st is that the party is still low level and the magic user (we have a cleric of Sarenae) is going to be pretty cautious about using up 1st level spells.
2nd is that this takes place of the border between Isger & Druma, an area known to be thick with bad guys and some of the forces for law (Druma mercenaries for example) are just as likely to be evil as good. So even if the cleric does do detect evil, he will be just 1 evil person among many.
3rd is that the party will likely find out soon that he's one of the bad guys. They just won't know that he is THE BAD GUY.

The key for me is for him to put them through a series of encounters without them realizing they are being set up and guided by the bad guy.
The other 2 things I need to accomplish is to make an interesting and powerful character of him and give him an interesting and challenging lair. Its an underground ruin. My plan is that once the party gets there (likely about 4th level) he'll wear then down with numerous encounters before showing up and revealing himself in person.

The raven sounds cool but it would be a give away. I'm planning (right now anyway) to bind him to his staff. I'll need to give that some cool powers too.

Pooh

I didn't mention that I want to stick to the Core rulebook, campaign setting and Gamemastery Guide.

I was going to have illusion as an opposition school. You've given me something to think about there.

He will likely be more of the 1st type though I was thinking of giving him some magic items to make him tougher in a fight (he'll have a magic staff as his bonded item that I need to design)

The plan is to have him out looking over his "recruits" personally in the guise of an old man with a staff. The players will see and possibly meet him at 2nd level (the upcoming adventure) but not know who he is. He'll then put them through tests. Those that fail will become undead minions our heroes can meet later on. To add a little to the ick factor, they will be meeting members of other groups this time out and later have to fight them as they have become undead minions.

The players are already chaffing at some of the authorities they have dealt with. They just seem naturally inclined that way. I'm thinking about using that as a hook for the necromancer to draw them in.

Pooh

Hi Guys

I'm GMing a pathfinder campaign set in Golarion. This is my 1st time as a GM since D&D 2.0 and our group's 1st venture into pathfinder.

I need to set up a Wizard/Necromancer as the main villan (that the party knows about) but have never run a high level wizard before.

The necromancer has sworn vengance against the home town of the PCs and sent goblins and bandits against the town in an attack that was repulsed. The town has now sent a large number of adventurers into the hills after the goblins and bandits. They know about the necromancer and know he was behind the attacks but not where he is or exactly what he is doing.

What they don't know is that the necromancer was sure his attack would fail. He did it to provoke just the response the town has made. He has all the low level bad guys he wants and needs some midlevel (4th thru 8th level) followers in order to get his revenge. He plans to "Recruit" them from the adventurers trying to hunt down the goblins. I want the necromancer to be 10th or 11th level. The PCs are only 2nd level right now so he will need to groom them for their future roll. I don't plan for the necromancer to succeed (necessarily) but that is the outline for this part of the campaign.

The necromancer resides in some forgotten underground ruins in the mountains and has numerous minions to throw at the PCs before they ever face them plus all the normal dangers of a mountain wilderness. So, I need him to not only be individually tough but be able to command followers through money, leadership and, of course, undead.

He is a human male and his base stats at 1st level are:
str=9
dex=12
con=10
int=20
wis=10
cha=17

He will be about 50 years old by the time of the campaign and 10th or 11th level so those stats will adjust accordingly. He will also be buffed a goodly number of magical devices but may campaign is not especially magic item rich so nothing over the top like a "Staff of the Magi". He will have a magic staff of some sort though.

Pooh

I'm going at it from a different angle. I'm using the standard valuations (everyone in my group is an experienced gamer and used to them). What I'm introducing is a mideavel banking system. In this case run by the merchants of Druma. They want money available for their big financial deals away from home and the way they get it is through lots of smaller depositors.
So the party, instead of carrying huge amounts of coin around will have most of their wealth in letters of credit. Seeing that this is an RPG, there will be magical protections to prevent theft & fraud (opening up a whole new set of opportunities for those so inclined)
BTW: the Knights Templars did this and became fabulously wealthy. The kalistrade is no less keen or adept.

Pooh

I'm a new gm and was wondering about the same thing. Short sharp fights are nice but its good to have some more prolonged encounters. Here's how my group's first 3 encounters went.

Encounter 1 5 PCs & new minor NPCs defend a supply wagon against 16 goblins & 1 leader. Result - most of the goblins are dead in 3 or 4 rounds and the rest are running.

Encounter 2 the 5 PCs encounter some human bandits with a captive and goblins + 1 hobgoblin in a mutual suprise. More goblins enter the combat over the course of 3 rounds keeping the PCs occupied while in rounds 3 to 6 more bandits arrive with their leader arriving on round 6. This was gruelling battle for the party. The goblins were a nuisance but couldn't be just ignored but the real danger was the human bandits. The party was nearing exhausion by the time the leader showed up. I think this fight went on for 10 or 12 rounds but it was a very saisfying win for the party. I wouldn't do this often but all the player's remember this as an epic battle, especially since the captive was a gnome bard who has sung the tale to any who will listen.

Encounter 3 was a night ambush by goblins. The party ambushed the goblin sentries but when they pursued they were ambushed themsleves. This turned into a running fight and since it happened the same day as encounter 2 all the magic users were getting tapped out. The party wasn't in too much danger but remember this one as a tougher fight than the 1st even though there were fewer goblins.

So 2 ways to extend the fight: feed more monsters in over a number of rounds and have a running fight were the party has to pursue (or is pursued). It does have the virtue of making encounters more varied.

Pooh