Peter Fuesz's page

Essentially I need a good campaign stopping point so they can pursue their other agendas without the clock ticking against them. Thanks for the information! ^^

Depending on how you are running your game, HOHR would be a good time for subplots. The PCs go to Eligos with the worm stuff and he tells them he will need X ammount of time to research the info. Modify to fit your needs.

In my game there is the threat of the worms spreading throughout the land to keep the players on track and focused on their task, but not all games are running with this type of timebomb plot. The disadvantage of this is there is little room for downtime between or during modules, so avoid playing up the worm threat if you want to run some sidequests.

A few questions for you.

How far into the Dourstone mines is the group?

Did they kill everyone and leave them lying in the caves?

When my group finished with Hextor and moved onto the other caves I had outside followers of Hextor come into the temple (remember Hextor was the temple who dealt with the outside world) on a routine supply or goto run, and find the Hextor leader dead. They resurrected the leader and he felt that the PCs were hired by Balabar to betray him (partially true in my case). He left the temple (leaving traps along the way... trapping the lift was alot of fun) and had Balabar killed for interfering.

When the PCs finally emerged from the mines there was a lot of chaos in town because of the assassination of Balabar.

Alot of these ideas have been detailed and suggested in other posts.

Dungeon #128 (just happen to be reviewing it) page 43 (middle column) says:

"At standard miniatures scale, a map of the arena would have to be over 3 feet wide and 6 feet long. If your gaming table is big enough, you could theoretically present the entire arena as a battlefield. Fortunately for the rest of us, a standard battlemat is probably enough."

Keep in mind there are other ways you can reward the party that have an equivalent monetary value to “giving them more items”.

As discussed on this board allowing the character to use spellcraft to identify basic traits of magical items is a significant monetary relief.

You can also allow the characters to sell items back for more that half the value. 60-70% can boost their earnings considerably.

Wow man, I feel your pain. I lost a few books at a convention a few years back and it hurt. Anyone other than a gamer wouldn't understand. Books get replaced every few years anyway, but some of my dice are from the games I played as a kid. It's all very personal but can be replaced. Plus, if you are like me you have players their own resources as well to help fill the gap.

Do you have a paypal account? I'll send you a few bucks to help replace your losses.

Game on.

5 players here... no problems. 4 of the 5 are seasoned players tho.

Yes, in the beginning modules Allustan tends to be a focal point for information.

However, be careful not to give out too much information all at once. I almost made that mistake. Be very familiar with the events of 3FoE before you have Allustan glean information back to the group.

Allustan can research the rubbings or sketches and then request a book from the Free Cities to further his studies. Once my group was done with WC, I had Allustan take a few trips there on his own so he was not available to the group for new information.

Keep in mind this is meant to be a diversion from the main game and only worked with my group because they enjoy diversions from the main story from time-to-time. The guard characters they played were meant to die in this story, the players were just there to help tell the tail. The fun was in how they interacted with each other during this crisis. To help with that interaction, I provided the NPC’s with personalities. It worked rather well, and in the end I had 3 spawn for the real PC’s to contend with.

How much fun is that! Well played.

I'll need to keep this in mind for other adventures.

Interesting twist, Peter. Makes me sorry that my group already finished Blackwall Keep. I think your guards are fun but I'm not sure how well *spoiling the surprise by having already role-played as an alternate player* will work for others. Still, what makes these messageboards great is DMs like you sharing their ideas.

I'll agree it's not for everyone, but my players and I got a kick out of knowing what they were up against ahead of time, and then playing their characters as if they didn't know about it.

I try to avoid the DM Vs. Players aspect D&D sometimes runs into. Let them know that I'm playing this game along with them.

First of all let me say that I am enjoying this adventure series and I am not changing it because I do not like the way it's written. I just know my players and thought they would get a kick out of this.

When the heroes arrived at Blackwall Keep it was under attack by the Lizardfolk. They fought back the Lizardfolk and secured the keep. The Cleric treated the wounds of the guards but there were a few guards that were still afflicted by something unknown. DC20 heal check was not made so she did not know they were afflicted by a slow worm. Still knowing something was not right they had the guards quarantined in the basement.

The heroes then head out into the swamp to rescue the captured mage, blah, blah, blah, they rescue her. As their characters turn to head back to the Keep I hand the players new character sheets for 5 guards at Blackwall Keep.

I give each guard a boost to 10 HP and a personality with a small blurb on what they thought of the other 4 guards.

I have them on patrol where they hear a noise coming from down in the basement and they head in to check it out. One hit dice guards are fun to play. It was all about the interaction between the guards and what they did or didn't do that got them killed.

As it turns out one of the quarantined guards turned into a spawn. 3 of the 5 guards were killed outright and the other 2 were turned into spawn. So when the PC's arrived back at the keep there were 3 spawn trapped in the basement. Perfect.

One thing to note, I turned off the Spawn's fear effect against the guards. Maybe it wasn't active for the newly made Spawn of Kyuss? It was just too much for the small segment.

So when my players jumped back into their normal characters they knew exactly what was going on at the Keep... and that made it all the more creepier. Most important part is they had fun with it.

Here are the guards they played:

Name: Duncan
Race: Human
Rank: Peon
Quick Tempered- Easily angered, your character has a hot temper and is easily provoked.
Limp - Your character walks with a limp, which is a birth defect your character is very self conscious about.
Init: +1
Senses: Listen +2, Spot +3
Armor: Chainmail
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15
Hp: 10 (1 HD)
Melee: Longsword +3 (1d8+1/19-20)
Ranged: Longbow +2 (1d8/x3)
Possession: Lucky Rabbit’s Foot
How he views other characters:
Walton: Bossy although usually right. Pompous in his fancy cloak.
Yerell: Holier than thou attitude. Talks too much.
Hammond: Clumsy and plays with fire… augh.
Santos: Stupid suckup! Is he a foreigner?

Name: Walton
Race: Human
Rank: Peon First Class
Charismatic - Your character is able to influence people by sheer force of personality. Difficult to Roleplay it takes a lot of effort to be charismatic. Leadership and the ability to engender enthusiasm in others is a must.
Squeamish - Your character cannot stand the sight of blood or gore. Joining the Military for a living probably wasn’t a good choice.
Init: +1
Senses: Listen +2, Spot +3
Armor: Chainmail
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15
Hp: 10 (1 HD)
Melee: Longsword +3 (1d8+1/19-20)
Ranged: Longbow +2 (1d8/x3)
Possession: Fine Cloak
How he views other characters:
Duncan: Poor chap, bum leg and blames the world for it.
Yerell: I can count on him to volunteer. Very Hororable.
Hammond: A bit clumsy, can I get him to stop starting fires?
Santos: Where is he from?

Name: Yerell
Race: Human
Rank: Peon
Chivalrous - Your character lives by a code of honor, is courteous, generous and valiant. Dreams of one day becoming a Paladin of Heironious.
Habitual Liar- If one lie will suffice ten are even better. Sometimes your character may lie just for the sake of lying. This does not mean that your character is a cruel to others.
Init: +1
Senses: Listen +2, Spot +3
Armor: Chainmail
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15
Hp: 10 (1 HD)
Melee: Longsword +3 (1d8+1/19-20)
Ranged: Longbow +2 (1d8/x3)
Possession: Holy Symbol of Heironious
How he views other characters:
Duncan: I could probably cure his limp when I’m a Paladin.
Walton: I would follow him into combat anytime.
Hammond: He’s going to blow up the kingdom with his potions!
Santos: Nice guy… where is he from?

Name: Hammond
Race: Human
Rank: Peon
Clumsy - Your character may be described as accident prone. He will trip over, bump into, and drop things.
Hobby-Alchemy - Almost everyone has a hobby, your character loves alchemy. The mixing of potions and drying of herbs makes him beam with delight.
Init: +1
Senses: Listen +2, Spot +3
Armor: Chainmail
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15
Hp: 10 (1 HD)
Melee: Longsword +3 (1d8+1/19-20)
Ranged: Longbow +2 (1d8/x3)
Possession: Vial of Alchemist’s Fire
How he views other characters:
Duncan: Don’t stare at his limp, makes him mad.
Walton: I’ll let him assign the watches.
Yerell: Smartest man alive.
Santos: Where is that accent from?

Name: Santos
Race: Human
Rank: Peon
Obsequious - Humbly or excessively attentive, fawning. Your character finds it much more agreeable to be in service to someone who will provide him with all his needs and is not against a bit of groveling to make sure he gets all that he feels he deserves. A bit weasely, but if he plays his cards right, a comfortable weasel.
Accent - Your character has an accent. It is from speaking another language but do not pin it down.
Init: +1
Senses: Listen +2, Spot +3
Armor: Chainmail
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15
Hp: 10 (1 HD)
Melee: Longsword +3 (1d8+1/19-20)
Ranged: Longbow +2 (1d8/x3)
Possession: Mood Ring
How he views other characters:
Duncan: Quick to anger, stay on his good side.
Walton: This man is going places, stay close to him.
Yerell: Wants to be good, but is a filthy liar. Stay clear of him.
Hammond: When he isn’t breaking things, he can make potions.

I plan to have Filge make his reappearance as the "director" of the undead play at Zeech's dinner party.

My group let Filge live after defeating him and his zombies. Convinced he wasn't trying to harm anyone, but just doing his job, the PC's debated turning him over to the authorities or just cutting off his hand (I was excited about the possibilities this offered). He kept pleading that he had not done anything wrong so the PC's, not knowing what to do, locked him in an Inn room while they finished WC. Of course when they got back he was gone, Smenk released him and he went back to the Free City. I plan on bringing him back into the game during the challange.

One other idea--the soldiers find one of Ilthane's slow worm healing potions while looting the lizardfolk, and use it on a wounded comrade. While the PCs are in the Mangaroo Grove, he transforms into a spawn and gets two of his buddies before they can barricade all three into the basement.

Yes, I like this one quite a bit. I am just about to start E@BK too.

Yes, I do not want to "lead them by nose rings". I just wanted to understand any real reasons for going down to the Grimlock caves. I will let the PC’s make their own destiny.

Without reasons (other than curiosity) I feel the group might instead concentrate on finding a way out of the Black Cathedral and let the town (Allustan & possible the Garrison) know what is going on down there. The lift is destroyed (courtesy of a resurrected Theldrick) but, as with most PC’s, they are a cleaver bunch.

I like the idea of a semi-matured Aspect emerging from the mine laying waste to the town, and the townsfolk blaming them for it. I figure with the death of all 3 leaders the Aspect ascends prematurely. So if 2 of the 3 are removed then the Aspect is able to gain a few more HD along the way. I wish there was a progression chart.

As if you need to be told… SPOILER ALERT!

My group is partway through 3FoE right now, but approached the temples out of the (assumed) intended order.

They took the bait and chased the guards to the Hextor temple first. After they cleared that temple they received the coded message and went directly to the Vecna temple next (skipping the Grimlock caves) and found the decoder to translate the Hextor message.

Once the message is decoded they know about the whole plot and about the Aspect, but it has not ascended from the pool yet because they haven’t finished (or started) with the Grimlocks.

Right now they are contemplating just leaving to have the garrison deal with the rest, which has it’s consequences of letting the Aspect mature (not sure at what rate…). However they feel they have more to deal with then the pesky Grimlocks. I’m not sure they understand the importance of dealing with the Aspect while it’s “young”. What is apparent to us is not to them.

However, my question to you… what’s the point, or motivation, of heading to the Grimlock caves? Am I missing something here or is the cave just more loot & xp. Is there a point to it?

BTW, I also used Theldrick’s henchmen that were in town to come get the dead Theldrick and sabotage the lift on their way out. It worked like a charm. They really enjoyed the note the newly rezed Theldrick left the Faceless One too (modified for my game of course). Thank you.

Thanks for the input. Are there any more recommendations? I am looking to pick up an audio book for my daily commute and am looking for some good candidates. Mainly Sci-fi or fantasy.

My players just entered the mine shaft and are going to fight the Hextor area first. I often thought about having Hextor followers come in after the battle and find the carnage, it makes sense for only them because they interact with the town on some level. I also wanted them to disable the elevator, but rig it to collapse when the PC's try to use it again. It would be more dramatic to get in the elevator and tug on the chain to hear it snap 100's of feet above them, then watch them scramble to get out of the lift before all that chain rips it to pieces as it crashes down.

I'm sure they will find a way out (climb, friends lower rope, etc.).

Anyhow, thanks for the post. I hope you do not mind if I use parts of it.

I'm running 5 players in the Chicago suburbs on Thursday nights.

Took 6 sessions to finish the Whispering Cairn and are now one game into Three Faces of Evil.

I write up a web journal for their benefit at:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/march1138/

If they are Prisoners of Theldrick I would have a line of questions for the PC's, "Who sent you?", "Why are you here?" etc. If Balabar is still alive in your game Theldrick could curse his name and say something like "I should have taken care of the heretic a long time ago!" and send minions out to do it. All with the PC’s as witnesses.

I would also use this opportunity to give the PC's some insight as to what is happening down here... monolog anyone? Theldrick could gloat about his glorious plan. Sure the PC’s screwed up in their tactics and ended up captured, but that does not mean the game is over for them… in fact I would give them more inside information and opportunities to set things right.

Having the followers of Hextor telling the other factions is a bit too much IMHO. Fighting 3 bosses at once is suicide.

Unless… [lightbulb] you have one faction want to kill the PC’s outright, and another says there needs to be a sacrifice, so a fight breaks out among factions. LOL.

Anyhow, good luck with this. Please post your results.

Very nice... thank you for posting this. My players just finished up WC and are ready to start 3FoE and have been talking about setting up a meeting with Balabar. He will most likely ask them first.

Your post gave me alot of ideas and I appreciate your work.

Thanks.

hints about the Ebon Triad and the Age of Worms had no apparent affect on the party - they are only concerned with the goal at hand and don't seem to care about looming danger.

After reading the AoW Overload and planning for my game I felt I should prepare for this condition as well. The group I am running does not have a Paladin or otherwise holy crusade type, mainly thugs and outcasts. To get them involved in the "main story" I constantly gave them hints throughout the Whispering Cairn and used the DM’s favorite "restless dreams" about a doomed AoW. The few in the group that actively worshiped a deity had visions from their god about this apocalypse so that when Filge started talking about the Ebon Triad all the players could contribute their puzzle piece to put it all together. They were then invested in the story line.

Mind Flayers have been known to experiment with grafting the flesh of two types of creatures. Bring him back with a new and improved hand--a choker's tentacled hand seems appropriate, but a hulking demomic arm or even a necrotic zombie oe skeletal arm would be nice too!

Yeah I remember some agent in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil having one demonic arm, I've always wanted to do that.

I might get my chance as my players are in much the same situation. Filge has told them everything he knows for promise of his freedom (what a coward! love it!). However some of the party feels he still needs to be punished. The priestess of Wee Jas in the group wants to kill him outright. However one party member suggested cutting off a hand as punishment for all the zombie bodies they found in the dining room.

I'll see how it goes.

Because this issue is so split and well argued on both sides, I wish we could get some kind of official ruling from the authors... [hint, hint]

I'm thinking about allowing PC's who get to 10th level a chance to fight their way back to the material plane after dying if they have no other way to get raised from the dead. Give them some difficult side quest in the afterlife and if they succeed they can come back to life--perhaps with some geas or quest put on them by their deity or whatever.

Just a thought.

This is a great idea... did you have any quest outlines in mind?

Got issue #130 in the mail today.

Chicago suburbs.

Not every D&D game needs to involve moral quandaries, but this is a minor one that can be fun to work with.

I’m sure the writer was counting on the PC’s not liking/trusting Balabar when it came to this point, and if the party is made up of Lawful or even just Good aligned characters it could be a tension filled meeting indeed.

Up to this point the PC’s should know Balabar is a bad, bad man. Depending on what type of government you run in your D&D game, he could even be considered “Above the Law” to some extent. So, they know he’s bad… they have a note to incriminate him in some wrong doing… but they still need to deal with him because he knows things that the characters do not. I LOVE IT!

Run with it. Have Allustan explain “That’s just how things work around here.” Or “You don’t need to like it.” It helps the PC’s hate Balabar even more. He makes a wonderful adversary. Perfect for the Lawful types since they should not kill him outright.

This all, of course, leads up to the PC’s being victorious over Balabar, which makes that victory even sweeter.

I really liked the optional intro scenario where the players acquire a fixer-upper to use as their base-of-operations, which is a great way to get the players interested in the surrounding area… including Diamond Lake.

I took a more ambitious approach to it and made one of the characters in my group a relative to the Lands. Not only did it improve their commitment to helping Alstor, but also made him the heir to their land (I improved the condition of the house a little).

Just another way to involve the characters into the politics in Diamond Lake.

In my game only 2 characters went into the submerged section. One had dark vision and the other had low-light and the everburning torch. Neither had spellbooks. Be sure to read the section on underwater combat in the DMG.

If you are worry about his spellbook just remind the player that water and books do not mix well, if he then still insists on heading into the water... does the ink on the pages run? Is his spell book water proof? I would warn him first tho.

Just finished game #4. We have short sessions so they are still playing The Whispering Cairn.

So far no character deaths.

Major SPOILERS to those who have not played in this campaign yet.

Alternatively, the letter they find might be an assassination request to the dopplegangers from Theldrick for some enemy of his in Diamond Lake. You can weave it into your campaign any way you want to, but it would show that Theldrick was also working behind the scenes in Diamond Lake to make the place more to his liking, and that he's connected with Raknian's pals. A good high priest might be a likely target. You can decide whether the attempt was in the past (successful or not), or not yet carried out.

Couldn't it also be an old assassination request against Balabar Smenk? Keep the players guessing who's working for who.

I’ve Got Reach wrote:

I wouldn't go over the top to infuse him into every module though. A break from this guy might be in order on occasion.

The only reason I really want to include him, or at least a reference to him, in every adventure is because these adventures are taking 3-4 weeks of play each, and even if I only mention him once it's enough to keep him on the brain. If I only spend 5 minutes on him in one out of four sessions I doubt the players will get burned out.

True.

Finding letters from him at various places will clue the PC's that their destinies are intertwined. A "Theldrick was here" stamp. It also allows you to insert information into the PC’s hands that they wouldn’t necessarily know… that kind of “inside information” is something that my players crave. It gives them the illusion of having the “upper hand” in a plot line, and gives me the opportunity to tell some of the behind-the-scenes story that this campaign is noted for, but often goes unnoticed by the PC’s.

Well said Steel_Wind, I too have pulled out my usual stops for this Campaign... it surprises my players a bit too.

I haven't hit the last battle with the WW but I'm sure Alastor will mention their existence (depending on their cooperation). That should help them at least prepare for something.

It's amazing the difference a successful save VS. a failed one can make. That and knowing what they were up against. I'm sure there were other factors, but this one stands out the most to me. Action Dice anyone?

PS I still think, in the interest of wiping out any and all paladins, that we should go ahead and let Kyuss worms affect them.

Agreed... good thing I don't have those pesky Paladins in my group.

It eats their brain.

Oh... nevermind then. They're screwed.

(I don't have the magazine on hand to reference)

I thought it was because of some infestation that they became Kyuss spawn. My players haven't made it that far yet... this is good to know.

Ooooo this is a good question. This is from the SRD

Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a paladin gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.

The worm crawling through the body is not a disease so I would say that still happens (and should scare the crap outta them)... but when the worm gets to the brain what happens? Does the worm take over the body? or does it spread it's disease to the brain?

Sounds like you gave them a run for their money... which is good.

However players’ not wanting to play in the game again is bad. When it all comes down to the brass tax, if they don't want to play again, then there is something wrong. It doesn't need to be one thing that's wrong either.

Assess your players. Not all players play the same. Some like the no-nonsense "iron man" game, while others prefer the occasional "throw me a frickin' bone here" approach. Neither is better than the other as long as the players like the game and are having fun. Therefore tweaking of the game is necessary for some DM’s and should not be frowned upon, especially if you run with a regular group that you know.

IMHO (many would disagree, but that’s okay) it is the DM’s job to assess the players capabilities and preferences and provide a game that is both enjoyable and challenging for all involved. There is a delicate balance involved with this, remember enjoyable AND challenging.

Anyhow, there are a few things that I try to limit in my games; one of them is character death from lucky/unlucky roles. I hate that. So I use Action Dice from Eberron (even tho we are not playing in an Eberron game) where the players can use Action Dice in critical areas… it comes up with Saving Throws from time to time. The other area is only “Boss” type creatures can crit a PC, minions cannot. They still hit with a natural 20 but they can never crit. I figure out who are the boss types before the game.

Again guys, this is how I run my players, and they seem to like it.

my AoW game blog is at:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/march1138/

We are only 3 games into it tho.

They often come back to debating it but everytime they say whatever is behind that door can not be worth the risk.

They are right. ;)

Depending on your players you might not really need to worry about it too much. If they really want to play in Eberron then they will overlook the inconsistencies... maybe even joke about them.

My game is a bit of a hybrid of Eberron and Greyhawk… I love action dice.

You could say that since they weren't that "experienced" the real world was clouded to them... and now theri eyes are opened.

LOL

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The elemental never came out of the water in my game... when the players retreated up the stairs the elemental just moved back to the back of the showers. I just couldn't see the elemental leaving the water.

The ghoul, however, was going to chase them out of the room, but the cleric turned it and it retreated back to its room. They ended up fighting it there when they went looking for it.

I pictured area 19 like a school shower room approximately 10 feet deep, but completely under water. That water comes out to the stairs which I made just a little longer than it is depicted in the module. My players usually are not to nit-picky about things.

I really had fun with the descriptions in room 19, it's not too often you get an underwater scene. Players bringing the everburning torch can cast an eerie glow about the cavern with the added underwater distortion. There was high suspense as I gave the description for the room as they came around the first barrier.

Just a quick post to all those interested in reading about my group and their journey through the AoW campaign. We play when we can.

I set up a blog and posted excerpts from their first 2 games... nothing new to those familiar with the series. Major SPOILERS to those who are not.

I hope to get my players to make "in character" comments on the site too, we'll see how it works out.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/march1138/