Friendly Fighter

Pasha Cassius Ardolin's page

36 posts. Alias of dreadfury.


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So my suggestion is to just never let them have full 50 charge wands. you will never find a wand of fire ball with more than 3 charges at level 3. the same goes for making wands.

roll randomly to see how many charges wands they make have.

This adds a little more resource management to the game for them and in emerald spire they are going to need it for sure that place is a hell hole hahahah.

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If I recall correctly from the mounted combat section of the combat rules. The rider counts as charging as long as the mount is charging in the same round. So the 15 foot reach could get charge bonuses off if your mount is charging from 10ft away. But that is probably super rules lawyering it. The harder thing to adjudicate at the table in pfs is how to treat bullrush attempts on a mounted character. Since there is a specific feat required to kick a rider off his mount called unseat it would seem that bullrushing a mounted character would mean bull rushing the pair. Or be applyed to the DC 5 ride check to stay in the saddle. The former. Has a little more rules backing than the latter.

Sorry if it seemed incoherent my phone adds random punctuation.

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I wanted to play a merfolk paladin but my gm said no.

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the bad guys

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I look at fort inevitable as a capsule of law in a chaotic land. Remember the hellknights took over in a swift brutal fashion. The locals do t seem to mind either. Slavery in this context is mostly indentured servitude or jail scentences carried out by hard labour.

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First of all Props to all the writers. this is going to be a fantastic game. Anyone who worked on Fort inevitable deserves a medal and a raise.

My big question is what is the best way to to have the civil war at fort inevitable? With my players this is pretty much going to happen. I dont think they will take the adventuring tax past level 6.

Can we have a stat block series for the hellknights?

Siding with the hellknights is going to be noticeably easier on the GM side. do the seven foxes have any big tricks up their sleeves or shall I just do a lot of world building and see where it takes me?

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The Sword Emperor wrote:

A couple questions from Level 1: The Tower Ruins

Clanky has a Weakness, called "Magic Dependent". What does that mean?

Grulk has a Special Quality called "Stalker". What does that mean?

Clanky is a variant automaton using the same rules from the bestiary in the back of the book. Magic dependant just means he can be subdued by antimagic field, dispel magic and mages disjunction.

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to provide a longer more challenging campaign im running it at medium EXP path. i think ill end up with 5 players. im expecting it to be DEADLY.

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sornet wrote:
Q: In 'tactics' section for Grulk you can read 'Once combat begins, Grulk uses the arrow slit to give himself improved cover'. But I cannot see such a slit in the room description... any clue?

the S overlooking the rest of the tower seems appropriate

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I love exp. I always add little rewards for killing blows and impressive tactics. It makes games feel less like wargaming and more like annadventure.

But innmy wrath of thenrighteous game i dictate whennthey level up because the game requires me to do too much work to level monsters up to.the group when i can do the opposite.

I also like xp because it creates incentive to show up to sessions. You dony show you lose out on exp.

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So for weeks now I have been dreading any of the boss fights for this AP.

but after I did a little work on the Mythic version of Baphomet I gotta say he looks pretty terrifying. Chris if you are there don't read this. ^_^

I added a few feats and changed a single ability (glaive mastery lets him attack adjacent players with no penalty).

I gave him the Furious focus, Bleeding critical and Critical Mastery feats to round out his martial design and continue the theme of a bleeding weapon. I also gave him quickened maze instead of the maze 3/day... it seemed more appropriate that he should be able to do that.

I gave him 5 mythic feats according to his tiers/ranks, Mythic Bleeding critical, Combat reflexes, Furious focus, Power Attack and Improved initiative

I maxxed out his HP, in all fairness if they are close to one rounding him I going to place a 0 after his normal HP. "gods' are "gods" after all.

I also gave him a static extra damage boost to his natural attacks because 2d8+6 strikes fear into the heart of no one.

Even though his perception is super super high I still felt the need to add the fact that he is totally aware of everything at all times on his abyssal plane since it is an extension of his consciousness.

In addition he will probably use his super miracle to reset the fight on his end around halfway through. Ressurecting all of his Balor minions etc.

So here he is. this is just a rough cut not the final version but hopefully it will offset some of the woe Gms are feeling about powerful players.


BAPHOMET mythic rank 10 (surge d12 10/day)

CE Large outsider (chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar, deific)
Init +43; Senses darkvision 60 ft., detect good, detect law, see in darkness, true seeing; (on his own plane he has total knowledge of the entire plane) Perception +63
Aura frightful presence (180 ft., DC 40), unholy aura (DC 32)
AC 55, touch 34, flat-footed 55 (+4 deflection, +11 Dex, +21 natural, +10 profane, –1 size)
hp 1024 (33d10+462+132+100)
Fort +37, Ref +26, Will +33
Defensive Abilities Abyssal resurrection, freedom of movement, supernatural cunning; DR 20/cold iron, epic, and good; Immune ability damage, ability drain, charm and compulsion effects, death effects, fear effects, electricity, energy drain, fire, maze, petrification, poison, block attacks; Resist acid 40, cold 40; SR 48
Speed 50 ft., fly 50 ft. (good)
Melee Aizerghaul +54/+49/+44/+39 (2d8+74/19–20/×3), gore +42 (2d8+61 plus 2d6 fire plus burn), bite +42 (1d8+61)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft. (20 ft. with glaive)
Special Attacks burn (4d6 fire, DC 42), glaive mastery, powerful charge (gore, 4d8+19 plus 2d6 fire and burn), scroll use Mythic Surge
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 27th)
Constant—detect good, detect law, freedom of movement, speak with animals, true seeing, unholy aura (DC 32)
At will—astral projection, baleful polymorph (DC 29), blasphemy (DC 31), desecrate, dominate person (DC 29), greater dispel magic, greater teleport, telekinesis (DC 29), shapechange, unhallow, unholy blight (DC 28)
3/day—quickened greater dispel magic, quickened maze, summon demons, summon minotaurs, symbol of persuasion (DC 28)
1/day—imprisonment (DC 33), mass charm monster (DC 32), time stop
Str 40, Dex 32, Con 40, Int 37, Wis 33, Cha 35
Base Atk +33; CMB +49 (+53 bull rush); CMD 84 (86 vs. bull rush)
Feats Bleeding Critical (mythic), Combat Reflexes(mythic), Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, Critical Focus, Critical Mastery, Furious Focus (mythic), Greater Bull Rush, Greater Weapon Focus (glaive), Greater Weapon Specialization (glaive), Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (glaive), Improved Initiative (mythic), Power Attack(mythic), Quicken Spell-Like Ability (greater dispel magic, maze), Scribe Scroll, Staggering Critical, Weapon Focus (glaive), Weapon Specialization (glaive)
Skills Acrobatics +44, Bluff +48, Diplomacy +48, Fly +49, Handle Animal +45, Intimidate +45, Knowledge (arcana) +49, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +46, Knowledge (geography) +46, Knowledge (history) +46, Knowledge (nobility) +46, Knowledge (planes) +49, Knowledge (religion) +49, Linguistics +46, Perception +53, Sense Motive +45, Spellcraft +49, Stealth +43, Use Magic Device +45; Racial Modifiers +8 Perception
Languages all languages; speak with animals; telepathy 300 ft.
SQ change shape (any animal, magical beast, or minotaur; greater polymorph), infernal brand, language mastery
Environment any (Abyss)
Organization solitary (unique)
Treasure triple (Aizerghaul, 2d6 scrolls, other treasure)

Aizerghaul Aizerghaul (Abyssal for ”Labyrinth’s Final Edge”) is a uniquely shaped glaive, the head of which consists of a double blade akin to a crescent moon. This blade is made of ivory, but is razor sharp and as hard as adamantine (and possesses all the qualities of that material). It is a +5 lawful-outsider-bane unholy wounding glaive capable of inflicting particularly horrible and painful wounds on good-aligned targets and devils alike. Such a creature must succeed at a DC 38 Fortitude save each time it’s wounded by Aizerghaul or be sickened with pain for as long as the damage caused by the wound persists. Whether the save succeeds or fails, these wounds don’t heal naturally and resist magical healing. A character attempting to heal these wounds must succeed at a DC 32 caster level check or the healing has no effect on the injured creature.

Glaive Mastery (Ex) Baphomet is exceptionally skilled at fighting with a glaive. He is treated as a 20th-level fighter for the purposes of fulfilling any feat prerequisites, such as that for Weapon Specialization. He may also attack adjacent creatures with his glaive at no penalty.

Infernal Brand (Su) The mark of Asmodeus is branded on Baphomet’s brow, yet this is no mark of fealty or servitude. Rather, Baphomet has claimed the pentagram—a remnant of the time he spend as the archdevil’s prisoner—and now draws power from it. The brand grants him his devil-like abilities of fire immunity and see in darkness. In addition, all devils and worshipers of devils take a –2 penalty on saving throws against Baphomet’s special attacks and spell-like abilities. He gains a +4 bonus on caster level checks to penetrate a devil’s spell resistance, and automatically penetrates a devil’s damage reduction with his glaive and natural attacks.
Language Mastery (Ex) Baphomet can speak, read, and understand all languages.
Scroll Use (Ex) Baphomet can cast spells from any scroll as if he possessed the spell on a spell list. Spells he casts from scrolls always resolve at caster level 27th.
Summon Minotaurs (Sp) Baphomet can summon half-fiend minotaurs, labyrinth minotaurs (see page 90), and mythic minotaurs as if casting a summon monster spell. He can summon eight half-fiend minotaurs three times per day, and four mythic minotaurs or one labyrinth minotaur once per day. This ability functions as a swift action, but otherwise works like the summon universal monster rule with 100% chance of success and counts as a 9th-level spell effect.

Supernatural Cunning (Su) Baphomet is never caught flat-footed and gains a +8 bonus on initiative checks. In addition, he’s immune to maze spells and can never become lost. He always knows the shortest, most direct route through any maze. After spending 1 minute in any maze, he understands its entire layout implicitly and can teleport to any location using his greater teleport spell-like ability.
Block attacks: Once per round, when the creature is hit by a melee or ranged attack, it can attempt a melee attack using its highest attack bonus. If this result exceeds the result from the attack against it, the creature is unaffected by the attack (as if the attack had missed).

Mythic Furious Focus: When you are usingFurious Focus, you don't takePower Attack's penalty on attack rolls that are made as attacks of opportunity. As a free action, you can expend one use of mythic power to negate Power Attack's penalty on all melee attacks you make for 1 round while using this feat.

Mythic Power Attack: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3 bonus on melee damage rolls instead of +2. When your base attack bonusreaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter, the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 instead of +2.

In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit, before it's multiplied by the weapon's critical multiplier.
You can expend one use of mythic power when you activate Power Attack to ignore the penalties on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks for 1 minute.

Mythic Combat Refelexes:You can make any number of additional attacks of opportunityper round. As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to, until the start of your next turn, make attacks of opportunity against foes you've already made attacks of opportunity against this round if they provoke attacks of opportunity from you by moving

Mythic Improved Initiative: The bonus on initiativechecks granted by Improved Initiative increases by an amount equal to your tier. This bonus stacks with the bonus fromImproved Initiative. In addition, instead of rolling initiative, you can expend one use of mythic power to treat your roll as a natural 20.

Mythic Bleeding critical: The bleed damage dealt with Bleeding Critical increases by your tier. Stopping this bleed damage requires a Heal check with a DC equal to 15 + 1/2 your tier. Any magical healing ends the bleed damage normally.
You can expend one use of mythic power to deal 1 Con bleed, in addition to the hit point bleed damage you deal with this feat. This effect increases by 1 for each additional use of mythic power you expend.

Weapon damage
Aizerghaul (2d8+2d6(lawful outsider bane)+2d6 unholy+74/19–20/×3)+1 Bleed
Sickened unless DC 38 fort save is made. Healing is resisted unless a DC 32 caster level check is made.
On a critical hit
6d8+282 +2d6 vs good, + 2d6 vs lawful outsiders
Staggered for 1d4+1 rounds DC 43 fort save reduced staggered to one round.
Bleed damage = 2d6+10 (mythic point use to cause 1 CON bleed per mythic point spent.)

Hope this helps others. And yes I am aware there are some mistakes in there. like i said before. Rough cut

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Journey to the New World (exploration and pirate adventure) (working title)

BOOK 1: The Prince’s Prize. (1-3)
Prince Stavian of Taldor has commissioned a new exploration army and is sending out ships to explore the new world of arcadia. In this adventure the party will meet and be hired as deckhands for the long journey ahead. They will travel to the shackles to stop off and resupply before heading west inot the open ocean. What could possibly go wrong?

BOOK 2: Storms of the Sea (3-6)
The ship will toss and turn in the open ocean as the storms rage on. After weeks of no land a small island appears, and so do pirates and Chelish ships hoping to claim the new world as their own. The party must resupply and explore the tiny island before the other ships can overtake them, but they are not alone on their small refuge.

BOOK 3: Landfall (6-9)
After successfully escaping the cook pots of the pygmy cannibals and evading the other ships the party will finally get a glimpse of the new world. The southern tip of Arcadia. Upon landing they find a graveyard of ships a few miles inland where Chelish secrets are revealed the fountain of immortality exists! The other ships are hot on the trail. The party must sail around the tip of arcadia to the other side where they will find the mountains they must climb to find the fountain!

BOOK 4: Tomb of the Emperor (9-11)
Climbing the mountains reveals an ancient city built by a long dead empire. What lies in wait next to the party’s prize? The other captains finally catch up to the party but accidentally stir awake the locals and a fight for survival might force unlikely alliances.

BOOK 5: Once more into the deep (11-13)
After the truth about the ancient civilization is revealed the party must use the clues to search the massive island chain for the true fountain evading a beast unleashed by the ancient empire. Eventually the clues will lead to an Atlantis like city that must be found and explored.

BOOK 6: Showdown at Damnation Keep (13-15)
Once the party has successfully discovered the secrets of the sunken city they must now defend themselves and their knowledge from the hordes of pirates, Native Islanders, Merfolk, the beast of the deep and the Chelish Navy. After all, immortality is the prize.

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Cevah wrote:
Scar Hex wrote:

This hex curses a single target touched with horrible scars of the witch’s choosing, whether something as simple as a single letter on the target’s forehead or blotchy, burn-like scars on his body.

Effect: The target may make a Will save to resist this hex. These scars do not interfere with the target’s senses or prevent it from using abilities, but may affect social interactions. The witch can use her hexes on the scarred target at a range of up to 1 mile, and she is considered to have a body part from the target for the purpose of scrying and similar divination spells. They persist through disguises and shapechanging.

The witch can withdraw this hex from a target as a move action at any range. The number of supernatural scars the witch can maintain at once is equal to her Intelligence bonus; once she reaches this limit, she must remove the scar from a current victim in order to mark another. Effects that remove curses can remove the scar.

I think everyone missed the scar's LoE: The scar itself is a magically created LoE with the rules 1) can be dissolved with a move action, 2) can be used up to 1 mile away by other hexes, and 3) can be scryed upon as if having a body part.

Consider Instant Summons can reach across the planes to an Arcane Mark.


There is nothing in the Scar hex that says anything about LoE just range. Range does not equal LoE.

Instant summons is a telportation effect, conjuration spells interact differently with the world than Special abilities and Spells.

Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling); create objects or effects on the spot (creation); heal (healing); bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or forms of energy to you (summoning); or transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation). Creatures you conjure usually—but not always—obey your commands.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

The creature or object must appear within the spell's range, but it does not have to remain within the range.

Calling: A calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can't be dispelled.

Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates. If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.

Healing: Certain divine conjurations heal creatures or even bring them back to life.

Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.

Teleportation: A teleportation spell transports one or more creatures or objects a great distance. The most powerful of these spells can cross planar boundaries. Unlike summoning spells, the transportation is (unless otherwise noted) one-way and not dispellable.

Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.

The school calls out that it works across planes. Scar hex does not say works through walls.

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Corvino wrote:
James Risner wrote:

It allows you to not have to worry about allies or enemies exceeding your range. This is useful if you don't need line of effect or sight anymore to help them. Such as maintaining fortune or misfortune on them when they exceed your range.

The inference of the second paragraph in my last post was that LoS/LoE still had to apply, as Pasha Cassius Ardolin maintains, which would render Scar fairly pointless. As you say, if Scar allows you to disregard these then it is in fact useful.

Scar is still a very powerful hex even with LoS/LoE rules being properly applied to it. It just negates the ability to sit in a log cabin a mile away with no danger to you at all.

Cubic Prism, you cannot logically apply only half of the Magic rules to (Su) abilities without causing more problems for your argument. As stated above, Balors ripping souls with no Los/Loe, Vrock dances ignoring walls.

If you apply any of the rules you have to apply all of them unless the ability grants them otherwise.

Lets apply Occam's Razor to this rules question. Which is more likely? All abilities under the Magic section follow the same rules, or some of the abilities only follow two of the rules most of the time, if they wrote it into the ability.

I pointed out before, if the rule for Effect spreads counts because it gives a named spread effect then the rule for Targeting must count if you have to target. If targeting counts so does Los/Loe per RAW.

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Yes. You are casting the spell and taking an offensive action.

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Cubic Prism wrote:

It seems like you are willing to look at abilities that inherently are limited and per effect/description data, give it more flexibility without doing the opposite. Taking an inherently flexible ability and limiting it based on effect/description.

If a (Su) ability states it's a cone, it inherits all benefits and limitations. As there (to the best of my knowledge) only 1 set of rules pertaining to cones, burst etc., it's logical that the ability must obey said rules.

You appear to want a blanket rule for (Su) abilities. These abilities are to me designed to do stuff spells don't/can't do, so by design and intent they don't all inherent the rules that spells are forced to obey. Some (Su) abilities will conform to LoE, some won't. Some will be unclear due to poor wording. In all cases one has to read the descriptions and effects to determine what does and does not apply. Also rules for Pathfibder are spread out, sometimes in multiple locations.

I don't need a blanket rule, they already exist within the magic rules.

If you have to target something, you have to follow the benefits and limitations of targeting too, that means LoS and LoE.

The Exchange

So you are willing to ignore targeting core mechanics of magic but not area of effect mechanics?

So these

Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.

Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creature, or object to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst's center point, a cone-shaped burst's starting point, a cylinder's circle, or an emanation's point of origin).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell's line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell's line of effect.

doesnt apply for targeting with an ability.


Area: Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below.

Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don't control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection.

You can count diagonally across a square, but remember that every second diagonal counts as 2 squares of distance. If the far edge of a square is within the spell's area, anything within that square is within the spell's area. If the spell's area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell.

Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell's point of origin and measure its effect from that point.

A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst's area defines how far from the point of origin the spell's effect extends.

An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres.

A spread spell extends out like a burst but can turn corners. You select the point of origin, and the spell spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns the spell effect takes.

Cone, Cylinder, Line, or Sphere: Most spells that affect an area have a particular shape.

A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes. Most cones are either bursts or emanations (see above), and thus won't go around corners.

When casting a cylinder-shaped spell, you select the spell's point of origin. This point is the center of a horizontal circle, and the spell shoots down from the circle, filling a cylinder. A cylinder-shaped spell ignores any obstructions within its area.

A line-shaped spell shoots away from you in a line in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that blocks line of effect. A line-shaped spell affects all creatures in squares through which the line passes.

A sphere-shaped spell expands from its point of origin to fill a spherical area. Spheres may be bursts, emanations, or spreads.

Creatures: A spell with this kind of area affects creatures directly (like a targeted spell), but it affects all creatures in an area of some kind rather than individual creatures you select. The area might be a spherical burst, a cone-shaped burst, or some other shape.

Many spells affect “living creatures,” which means all creatures other than constructs and undead. Creatures in the spell's area that are not of the appropriate type do not count against the creatures affected.

Objects: A spell with this kind of area affects objects within an area you select (as Creatures, but affecting objects instead).

Other: A spell can have a unique area, as defined in its description.

(S) Shapeable: If an area or effect entry ends with “(S),” you can shape the spell. A shaped effect or area can have no dimension smaller than 10 feet. Many effects or areas are given as cubes to make it easy to model irregular shapes. Three-dimensional volumes are most often needed to define aerial or underwater effects and areas.

does simply because you say so?

if you have to TARGET something with an ability it has to follow the targeting rules laid out in Magic.

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A number of classes and creatures gain the use of special abilities, many of which function like spells

Supernatural Abilities: These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.

Clearly they are magical, clearly they function like spells sans the alterations specifically noted under the Supernatural Abilities entry.

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Dragon breath weapon (Su).

"Breath Weapon (Su): Using a breath weapon is a standard action. A dragon can use its breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds, even if it possesses more than one breath weapon. A breath weapon always starts at an intersection adjacent to the dragon and extends in a direction of the dragon's choice. Breath weapons come in two shapes, lines and cones, whose areas vary with the dragon's size. If a breath weapon deals damage, those caught in the area can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage. The save DC against a breath weapon is 10 + 1/2 dragon's HD + dragon's Con modifier. Saves against various breath weapons use the same DC; the type of saving throw is noted in the variety descriptions. A dragon can use its breath weapon when it is grappling or being grappled."

No LoE needed right guys? Not stopped by walls.

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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Pasha Cassius Ardolin wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Pasha Cassius Ardolin wrote:

They are not spells but they operate under the Magic rules, and thus must adhere to the spell effect rules.

That's an interesting and entirely unsupported opinion.


Scroll down to "special abilities"

I quoted this section a few posts above.

You mean, the section where it says absolutely nothing in support of your opinion?

why would they list them under the magic rules if they do not follow the magic rules?

All effects (burst or otherwise) call out Spells and say nothing of (Ex), or (Su) are you going to tell me that because cone effects only call out spells (Su) abilities need not adhere to those rules?

"Hellfire Breath (Su): The pit fiend gains a devastating breath weapon that it can use once every 1d4 rounds. This breath weapon is a 60-foot cone of fire (10d10 fire damage and 10d10 unholy damage as per flame strike, successful Reflex save [DC 10 + 1/2 the pit fiend's racial HD + the pit fiend's Constitution modifier] half)."

Here is a pit fiends hell breath. Damage dealt as per Flame strike. Cone effect as per (Su). Not a spell and therefore does not follow the magic effect rules?

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Corvino wrote:

Given the general inconsistencies and non-specific nature of the system I don't think we can achieve a consensus here.

My reading, as I have said, is that Scar allows you to use Hexes without Line of Sight or Line of Effect on the Scarred creature in a manner similar to the Scrying spell. The "at a range of 1 mile" part the Hex description is similar to the "at any distance" wording of Scrying, and the fact that Scrying is specifically mentioned makes this synergy seem obvious.

It makes sense from a fluff point of view as well - a witch staring into a cauldron and watching their victim fall prey to the misfortune inflicted is a classic fantasy trope.

I could be wrong, but if Scar does not permit this then it's horribly underpowered. The only use if it doesn't allow long-range Hexing is to scar your allies to throw buffs at longer range, which is pretty mediocre. If you need to walk up to melee range and make a touch attack in order to gain "long-range but within LoS/LoE Hexing" - that's stupid and no-one would ever use it.

you are forgetting the Split hex and Scry utility. having LOE and LOS doesn't make the Scar hex terrible it just makes it less one mile away from combat. Scar is still fantastic even with the LOS/LOE limitations. It just requires a more tactical mindset to take advantage of.

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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Pasha Cassius Ardolin wrote:

They are not spells but they operate under the Magic rules, and thus must adhere to the spell effect rules.

That's an interesting and entirely unsupported opinion.


Scroll down to "special abilities"

I quoted this section a few posts above.

The Exchange

Here is an example of something that can be used through a wall under your interpretation of RAW

"Soul Swallow (Su) As a standard action, the balor lord can inhale the soul of a living creature within 30 feet. The target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 balor lord's racial HD + the balor lord's Charisma modifier) or die. The body of a humanoid creature killed in this manner immediately transforms into a demon under the balor lord's command (a babau, succubus, or shadow demon, according to the balor lord's whim)."

No LoS/LoE needed, buffing on the other side of a wall? Soul sucked. Clearly ALL (su) abilities are specified in their specific rules.

They are not spells but they operate under the Magic rules, and thus must adhere to the spell effect rules. Or we have madness.

Here is another.

"Dance of Ruin (Su) A vrock can dance and chant as a full-round action—at the end of 3 rounds, a crackling wave of energy explodes from the vrock, dealing 5d6 points of electricity damage to all creatures within 100 feet. A DC 17 Reflex save halves this damage. For each additional vrock that joins in the dance, the damage increases by 5d6 and the DC to avoid the effect increases by +1, to a maximum of 20d6 when four or more vrocks are dancing (the DC continues to increase with additional vrocks, but the damage does not). The dance immediately ends and must be started anew if any of the participating vrocks is slain, stunned, or otherwise prevented from dancing. The save DC is Charisma-based."

Not blocked by a wall unless it adheres to the Magic rules.

The Exchange

Cubic Prism wrote:

I believe it's as I said. Take each (SU) ability, read the description and effect to determine if LoE is required. A (Su) to cast Scorching Ray, that clearly states "as the spell" would require LoE because it's mimicing a spell that is required to have LoE. An (Su) to understand languages shouldn't require LoE to understand spoken words. I think it's fair to say you can understand someone through a 4 inch hole in the door, or through a thin glass window. Both of which, per RAW, block LoE. Each (Su) needs to be looked at, because they are not spells.

As for scar, per raw it does require LoE to scar hex the target - it requires touch. Either by the target willingly being touched, or a touch attack. The effect of being able to deliver any hex the witch can cast within a 1 mile range happens after it's delivered, and it's clear what it's meant to do.

(Su) understanding of languages is such a straw man here. The point of origin of that effect is "personal". You understand the words as they reach you not as they are spoken.

(Su) does seem to be called out in magic section as working like spells with noted exceptions.

"Under special abilities
A number of classes and creatures gain the use of special abilities, many of which function like spells
Supernatural Abilities: These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas."

clearly the intent is to require that magic rules apply to (Su) abilities as well.

The Exchange

The implication of a target does not necessitate LoS/LoE rules. This is what RAW players will argue. If that is true indeed, then the argument is senseless.

The problem with (Su) abilities is that they don't follow Magic rules. There is nothing in the Magic rules that talks about (Su) other than

"Special Abilities
A number of classes and creatures gain the use of special abilities, many of which function like spells.

Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is granted.

Supernatural Abilities: These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.

Extraordinary Abilities: These abilities cannot be disrupted in combat, as spells can, and they generally do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Effects or areas that negate or disrupt magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities. They are not subject to dispelling, and they function normally in an antimagic field. Indeed, extraordinary abilities do not qualify as magical, though they may break the laws of physics.

Natural Abilities: This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature. Natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like."

If that is enough to dictate LoS/LoE then I am content but I would appreciate a FAQ to fix this glaring issue.

The Exchange

Corvino wrote:

Not all spells seem to require either Line of Effect or Line of Sight. Scrying doesn't specifically say no LoE or LoS is required just that the range is "any distance", but how would it be useful if LoE/LoS were needed?

I can see the conversation now:
PC: I cast Scrying to locate the BBEG, we have a drop of his blood from last time we fought.
GM: Sorry, he's indoors. Your line of effect is blocked by a thin wooden wall. Unlucky.

Given that the Scrying spell is specifically called out in the Scar Hex description I think it's reasonable to infer that Scar allows Hexes to be used in a similar manner.

Scrying is a clear exception to the rule. The scar Hex aids with scrying as its secondary part but that in no way stops the need for LoE on hexes being "cast" at the target.

The Exchange

I was the other Party of this discussion, it just so happens that our conversation left me with a glaring problem with all (su) abilities. RAW and RAI with the scar hex not without specific problems of their own. As a PFS GM I want to obtain a reasonable answer before I throw down table variance.

The Exchange

not all witch hexes rely on sight, misfortune, fortune being two. The idea that for a (su) ability to have restrictions only written into the ability is absurd.

If LoE only affects spells then

"A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creature, or object to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst's center point, a cone-shaped burst's starting point, a cylinder's circle, or an emanation's point of origin)."

has no bearing on any supernatural ability. So a cleric channel can be stopped by a wall, but a ghost's

"Frightful Moan (Su): The ghost died in the throes of crippling terror. It can emit a frightful moan as a standard action. All living creatures within a 30-foot spread must succeed on a Will save or become panicked for 2d4 rounds. This is a sonic mind-affecting fear effect. A creature that successfully saves against the moan cannot be affected by the same ghost's moan for 24 hours."

can just happen through a wall.

(Su) auras will penetrate walls and other LoE stopping things unless they say "this effect cannot go through a wall".

The Witch's "Scar Hex" is an example of abuse of loss of LoS, LoE rules. The hex only specifies a Range but not how it interacts with LoE.

If LoS and LoE don't apply to (Su) then every monster that carries one is horrendously more powerful.

The Exchange

Do supernatural abilities require Line of effect and/or Line of Sight?

The Exchange

I turned book three into a day by day routine. we are dealing with taxes, the corpses of the armies that fought over drezen, political control of the city and the army of people that arrived just recently.

i also added some of my own twists to the game here, a series of assassins from the npc codex lead by a character of my own creation.

and the psychosis wrought paladin that threw radiance in the sewer and had to fight a AvP Ziggurat of fleshwarps to get it back.

The Exchange

i plan to add a series of high level casters to the mix for the end bosses. high level witches with mythic tiers and the retaliation hex do wonders for making a party not try to deal 100000 damage in a round.

i also plan to add a "0" to the end of all the HPs of demon lords mythic fights ought to be mythic. the players should feel like they earn it.

also tick swarms at level 9 can murder mythic players.

The Exchange

Dresden10589 wrote:
Soluzar wrote:

The waking rune series. Because the road to power is badass.
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

there were a few "traps"

krune can be a formidable enemy. just ask the poor guys that went in there with no arcane casters.

The Exchange

Matthew Morris wrote:

GMing the Mites

** spoiler omitted **

I made all the players feelnbad for the mites the entire way through. They were just pawns after all

The Exchange

To gm
devil we know 1-4 the fun comes from rping the mites and the bad guys.

Storval stairs. Because hot damn can the bad guys be tough.

The golden serpent. Best bad guy boss.

Forbidden furnace of the forgotten koor. Best trap.

To play
Storval stairs best combats to date.

Port godless with a bluff bard.

The waking rune series. Because the road to power is badass.

The Exchange

We rocked out with

Ranger 12 (me)
Fey kitsune enchantment sorc
blaster wizard 11/1sorc
life oracle12
come and get me barb.

We trucked through it. A few times i almost turned hero III into hero IV but we came ahead.

The Exchange

I have two rangers. One human archer and one halfling mounted combat on a roc.